CityCentre: Mixed-Use Development At 800 Town And Country Blvd.

[lockmat]

Holy Cow people, does anyone know anything about the stinkin' brownstones?

[LTAWACS]

You started the whole stupid conversation. UGH

That's a negative.

[livincinco]

I can't imagine something so far out not being a bad location for a huge number of ppl.

West Houston has a population of 1.2 million. You really need to get out more.

[jgriff]

Yes, the brownstones were built. I drive by sometimes and I can't see any evidence that they've sold. I think they are asking in th 700-800k range. The general location on the West side of Houston is not bad. The specific location facing an ugly post office is bad. I ate at Flora and Muse today and noticed that they are charging for parking in the spots on the street in Citycentre now. It was $2 for us to park for an hour.

[LTAWACS]

West Houston has a population of 1.2 million. You really need to get out more.

Define "West Houston".

[livincinco]

Define "West Houston".

I'm using the definition of the West Houston Association - http://www.westhouston.org/

If you look at the map, it's basically Memorial City and West.

[august948]

I'm using the definition of the West Houston Association - http://www.westhouston.org/

If you look at the map, it's basically Memorial City and West.

It's a bit more than that, using the map in the link above. Per the westhouston.org website, the 1.2 or so million are in a roughly square area of about 1000 sq miles that runs from sugarland north to the woodlands and west well past katy. City Centre sits on the eastern edge of that square.

http://www.westhouston.org/data.htm

[LTAWACS]

West Houston has a population of 1.2 million. You really need to get out more.

Like I said... I can't imagine something so far out not being a bad location for a huge number of ppl.

[LTAWACS]

It's a bit more than that, using the map in the link above. Per the westhouston.org website, the 1.2 or so million are in a roughly square area of about 1000 sq miles that runs from sugarland north to the woodlands and west well past katy. City Centre sits on the eastern edge of that square.

http://www.westhouston.org/data.htm

Their definition of west Houston is quite arbitrary to say the least. It's a rectangle. Really. Come on... Most of the area of that "roughly square" rectangle is not even Houston. Seems to me they have no idea what they're doing.

[livincinco]

Their definition of west Houston is quite arbitrary to say the least. It's a rectangle. Really. Come on... Most of the area of that "roughly square" rectangle is not even Houston. Seems to me they have no idea what they're doing.

All of the area listed is part of the Houston metro area if not part of the city and is all well to the west (including NW and SW) of the loop. Additionally, City Centre is within minutes of three of the major employment centers in the city (Memorial City, Westchase, and the Energy Corridor). Dismissing it as being "so far out" is just as inaccurate as calling it the "center of the city".

My opinion is that this is the most successful mixed-use urban development in Houston. Comments?

[ricco67]

All of the area listed is part of the Houston metro area if not part of the city and is all well to the west (including NW and SW) of the loop. Additionally, City Centre is within minutes of three of the major employment centers in the city (Memorial City, Westchase, and the Energy Corridor). Dismissing it as being "so far out" is just as inaccurate as calling it the "center of the city".

My opinion is that this is the most successful mixed-use urban development in Houston. Comments?

I hate to tell you this, but it IS far out.

My only real problem with CC is the fact that is isn't really "CONNECTED" to the street system, but more along the lines of its own little enclave that people have to drive to a fairly idiotic route to get to.

Midtown is a bit more successful as far as accessibility for those that come from outside the area.

[K.C.]

I believe only 4 of the brownstones have been closed.

[Highway6]

I hate to tell you this, but it IS far out.

My only real problem with CC is the fact that is isn't really "CONNECTED" to the street system, but more along the lines of its own little enclave that people have to drive to a fairly idiotic route to get to.

Midtown is a bit more successful as far as accessibility for those that come from outside the area.

I used to feel the same way, until I stated working on the beltway, and now work on I-10 inside the beltway.

There are so many office buildings and office parks withing 3 miles of there, it is a good location. Look at all the new retail that has sprouted up along I-10 between Wirt and 8 since 10 has been rebuilt. There is plenty of demand for retail and commercial in this part of town.

Its not inconvenient to get to at all. I can understand why most urbanistas would frown at it, I used to be the same way. Lord, It's outside the Loop. But I've learned that even if you choose to live someplace innner loop in a walkable community, if you're lucky enough to have a job and its located outside the loop, it's all for naught.

Plus.. another thing I've come to realize, 610 isn't a magical line and "suburbia" is relative. The old suburbs in the 610 to 8 zone is where you're gonna find all the great ranch homes of houston. I have lots of family and friends in the western 610 to 8 zone, and lots of them love the new CC.

New mixed-use development isn't only for urbanistas on their bicycles.

Even though midtown would be the more ideal place for a mixed use development from a transit-connectivity standpoint, who is going to shop there? Middle-class shoppers with money. I don't see dollar stores and fiestas going up in a primo new developments. I don't see 3rd ward contributing to the development's viability. Neartown, the Musuem district and the couple of thousand DT residences.. Thats it.. Contrast that to CC, surrounded 360 degrees by Spring Branch, Memorial, the Villages, and the Kirkwood/Dairy Ashford area, all by residents not afraid to drive a few miles to shop. CC is a developer's wet dream compared to Midtown.

PS. "Far out" is relative if you're on a brand spanking new freeway. It takes me longer to get from my home near the Menil to I-10 than it takes me to get from Shepherd exit on 10 to the beltway. The new 1-10 is dreamy.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Highway6

[livincinco]

I hate to tell you this, but it IS far out.

My only real problem with CC is the fact that is isn't really "CONNECTED" to the street system, but more along the lines of its own little enclave that people have to drive to a fairly idiotic route to get to.

Midtown is a bit more successful as far as accessibility for those that come from outside the area.

Far out is entirely relative. You guys are looking at this from the perspective of being "inside the loop", and no disrespect intended, but the inside the loop population is a reasonably small percentage of the overall population of the Houston Metro Area and even of the City of Houston. The most recent estimate of the inside the loop population of Houston that I could find is 600,000. (I can't vouch for the accuracy of that number, but it appears to be in the ballpark). Assuming that number is at least reasonably correct, that makes the inside the loop population approx 26% of the population of the city and only about 10% of the population of the metro. The population density in the Memorial area is also comparable to the density of many areas inside the loop.

I also have difficulty accepting that it isn't connected. This complex is directly connected to Town & Country and there are no barriers to walking between the two centers. Not to mention that this is located at the intersection of two different highways.

This is a diverse city that does not have a single center point. Everywhere is far for most people.

[ricco67]

I used to feel the same way, until I stated working on the beltway, and now work on I-10 inside the beltway.

There are so many office buildings and office parks withing 3 miles of there, it is a good location. Look at all the new retail that has sprouted up along I-10 between Wirt and 8 since 10 has been rebuilt. There is plenty of demand for retail and commercial in this part of town.

Its not inconvenient to get to at all. I can understand why most urbanistas would frown at it, I used to be the same way. Lord, It's outside the Loop. But I've learned that even if you choose to live someplace innner loop in a walkable community, if you're lucky enough to have a job and its located outside the loop, it's all for naught.

Plus.. another thing I've come to realize, 610 isn't a magical line and "suburbia" is relative. The old suburbs in the 610 to 8 zone is where you're gonna find all the great ranch homes of houston. I have lots of family and friends in the western 610 to 8 zone, and lots of them love the new CC.

New mixed-use development isn't only for urbanistas on their bicycles.

Even though midtown would be the more ideal place for a mixed use development from a transit-connectivity standpoint, who is going to shop there? Middle-class shoppers with money. I don't see dollar stores and fiestas going up in a primo new developments. I don't see 3rd ward contributing to the development's viability. Neartown, the Musuem district and the couple of thousand DT residences.. Thats it.. Contrast that to CC, surrounded 360 degrees by Spring Branch, Memorial, the Villages, and the Kirkwood/Dairy Ashford area, all by residents not afraid to drive a few miles to shop. CC is a developer's wet dream compared to Midtown.

PS. "Far out" is relative if you're on a brand spanking new freeway. It takes me longer to get from my home near the Menil to I-10 than it takes me to get from Shepherd exit on 10 to the beltway. The new 1-10 is dreamy.

It's not a matter of keeping out dollar stores, it's to make a "neighborhood" of goods and services that people will need on a day to day basis that is easily accessible to those that don't rely on a car to get there.

A good example is (was?) 66th at Canal/Harrisburg. Within a fairly short distance, you can do grocery shopping, go to a barber, get fresh bread, go to a laundrymat, and get nails done.

City Center is a place is for a more high end lifestyle. I'm not knocking that, but I think that if you take that development and drop it on Bellaire, westheimer, or even someplace in midtown, it would spur even further development to match their current layout and homes would spring up trying to get closer to participate in that lifestyle.

As far as I see it, it's a high end oasis separated by an ocean of single family homes and freeways.

[august948]

It's not a matter of keeping out dollar stores, it's to make a "neighborhood" of goods and services that people will need on a day to day basis that is easily accessible to those that don't rely on a car to get there.

A good example is (was?) 66th at Canal/Harrisburg. Within a fairly short distance, you can do grocery shopping, go to a barber, get fresh bread, go to a laundrymat, and get nails done.

City Center is a place is for a more high end lifestyle. I'm not knocking that, but I think that if you take that development and drop it on Bellaire, westheimer, or even someplace in midtown, it would spur even further development to match their current layout and homes would spring up trying to get closer to participate in that lifestyle.

As far as I see it, it's a high end oasis separated by an ocean of single family homes and freeways.

When you consider that City Centre basically forms the north end of Town & Country, where there is a Randall's, Barnes & Noble, numerous restaurants of varying levels from Quizno's and James Coney Island on up, numerous other stores, probably including hair stylsts, etc., plus it's what, maybe a block or two from I-10 and other restaurants, etc. I kind of envy that ocean of single family homes that are within easy walking and biking distance of it. When you also consider that the Terry Hershey Park trail dead ends a few blocks south of Town & Country and that the trail serves like a hike & bike highway all the way out to Katy, I'd say you've got a pretty decent lifestyle already. You don't have to be inside the loop to have what passes for an urban lifestyle here.

[Highway6]

It's not a matter of keeping out dollar stores, it's to make a "neighborhood" of goods and services that people will need on a day to day basis that is easily accessible to those that don't rely on a car to get there.

Not to a developer it isn't. They don't slap down mixed-use projects for the fun of it or out of the goodness of their hearts.

They do it to make money.

What you describe is important.. but it's not going in a brand new mixed-use development.

[jgriff]

When you consider that City Centre basically forms the north end of Town & Country, where there is a Randall's, Barnes & Noble, numerous restaurants of varying levels from Quizno's and James Coney Island on up, numerous other stores, probably including hair stylsts, etc., plus it's what, maybe a block or two from I-10 and other restaurants, etc. I kind of envy that ocean of single family homes that are within easy walking and biking distance of it. When you also consider that the Terry Hershey Park trail dead ends a few blocks south of Town & Country and that the trail serves like a hike & bike highway all the way out to Katy, I'd say you've got a pretty decent lifestyle already. You don't have to be inside the loop to have what passes for an urban lifestyle here.

Correct.

I live close to CityCentre and walk to the gorcery store a lot. I walk to the bus stop to get to work downtown. I really could live without a car in this area. There have been times when I go 5 days without driving. I use the car mostly on weekends.

[LTAWACS]

Correct.

I live close to CityCentre and walk to the gorcery store a lot. I walk to the bus stop to get to work downtown. I really could live without a car in this area. There have been times when I go 5 days without driving. I use the car mostly on weekends.

Interesting.

[JJVilla]

On a somewhat related note with regards to my move to Long Beach (I am working and have temp living by City Hall, in downtown). Just because you build something very nice and urban doesn't mean that all your urban problems will away and consumers will leave their comfortable areas to the new place (still urban areas). The development here is geared for urban professionals and looks nice/inviting to me but you've got to be very young or adventurous to live just 4 or 6 blocks north of the beach in some areas (where the place is). This is a nice looking, mixed use area I am referring to but deceiving (from what I have been told) and still attract problems/crime. Maybe the co-workers comments were a bit off but they have some basis.

Just thought I'd share a somewhat related impression on some issues of putting some of these of developments in an urban, developing area and it's downside. Of course this has some to do with economic slowdown over here and in general.

[livincinco]

http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/03-04-11-the-weather-isnt-the-only-thing-heating-up-in-houston-citycentre-continues-to-explode/

New article gives details of residential occupancy rates at CityCentre

The Domain, a 370-unit luxury apartment complex that anchors the southeast corner of the complex, is 97 percent leased. Ninety four percent of the 250 lofts have been leased, four of the five upscale brownstones have been sold, and three more are under construction, with 33 more planned.

[Vaughan]

They broke ground on the new brownstones a few weeks ago. Whereas the sign outside the complex used to list them from the $800s, it now lists them from the $600s. I still can't imagine buying a place with a view of the post office parking lot for that kind of money, but I suppose that price is competitive with single-family homes of comparable square footage in the area.

The idea that City Centre is far out is ludicrous. It's 15 miles from downtown, which in Houston terms is not that great a distance. It's still well within the city limits. At 9 a.m., it takes me 20 minutes or less to drive from Kimberley at the Beltway to downtown. And it's not even like the area was the middle of nowhere up until only recent times. Many of the surrounding neighborhoods were built in the late '50s. Maybe for people who moved here from much denser Northeastern cities, anything outside the Loop seems like BFE, but having lived most of my life in Houston, hearing that part of town described as far out sounds strange.

As for the convenience of being able to shop, make appointments, eat out, etc. in the area, I'll take the convenience of the Memorial and I-10 corridors over more crowded, urbanized areas inside the Loop or anywhere else.

[kdog08]

The idea that City Centre is far out is ludicrous. It's 15 miles from downtown, which in Houston terms is not that great a distance. It's still well within the city limits. At 9 a.m., it takes me 20 minutes or less to drive from Kimberley at the Beltway to downtown. And it's not even like the area was the middle of nowhere up until only recent times. Many of the surrounding neighborhoods were built in the late '50s.

The location is seriously key. You have close proximity to Westchase and the Energy Corridor and are less than 15 miles away from DT and Uptown area.

[august948]

Plus it's also at the intersection of I-10 and the beltway, both of which have high traffic counts, so you get people coming here from not only east and west but also from north and south.

[Sellanious Caesar]

Negotiations for a new (much needed) grocery store and another restaurant most likely. I' very impressed how in 2 years (roundabout) they drew a residence population of 1,200 yet at the same time saddened how our downtown only has slightly double that number with 2,500 residences.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/2011/03/citycentre-grocer-to-help-feed-masses.html

[august948]

Negotiations for a new (much needed) grocery store and another restaurant most likely. I' very impressed how in 2 years (roundabout) they drew a residence population of 1,200 yet at the same time saddened how our downtown only has slightly double that number with 2,500 residences.

http://www.bizjourna...eed-masses.html

I don't know about much needed since there's a Randall's within easy walking distance. I guess there might be a niche there for an upscale or specialty grocer. How many sqft are they talking about?

[KinkaidAlum]

Still haven't been there and don't feel like I am missing out on anything. It might be named CityCentre, but it isn't a destination for anyone other than Westsiders and area office workers. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[swtsig]

Still haven't been there and don't feel like I am missing out on anything. It might be named CityCentre, but it isn't a destination for anyone other than Westsiders and area office workers. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

perhaps it's nothing special to ITLers (which i consider myself as well) but CityCentre is incredibly popular and successful... it doesnt need ITLers at all, in fact, as the population it pulls from is both wealthy enough and abundant enough that pulling people from the "true" geogrpahical city center is of no importance. and hell, it is technically the demogrpahic center of the city anyways... being a destination for westsiders and office workers in the area is coup for the developers.

office building 3 will be under way soon and i wouldn't be surprised at all if they went forward with #4 soon after. the location is highly desirable to office tenants in the energy corridor/westchase areas.

[intencity77]

Was in City Centre a few weeks ago and from what I saw I honestly felt a little disappointed. Don't get me wrong, the design, concept and visual appeal are outstanding and top notch but it feels like something is missing. It needs more retail as the majority of tenants that I noticed are restaurants. It would have been nice to see something more along the lines of The Domain in Austin mixed with high end retail. Hopefully with time this center will evolve to a more diverse tenant roster much like its neighbor, Town & Country Village, which I find to be more appealing.

[Fringe]

I don't know about much needed since there's a Randall's within easy walking distance. I guess there might be a niche there for an upscale or specialty grocer. How many sqft are they talking about?

Could be a good location for another Whole Foods store. Area demographics is a definite fit.

Or if they play their cards right maybe they can get a Super-Walmart.