METRORail University Line

[WesternGulf]

This is the first time I have ever heard of these Diesel LRT vehicles. It just sounds disgusting. Are these part of the plans and what is the point?

[texasboy]

This is the first time I have ever heard of these Diesel LRT vehicles. It just sounds disgusting. Are these part of the plans and what is the point?

I believe that is what Galveston uses with their streetcars. No overhead wires I believe. Also the Perley Thomas streetcars on St Charles in New Orleans.

[zaphod]

what im hoping for is that they eventually electrify the line...

Also, I wonder if whatever trains they pick will be able to run on the red line aswell?

Also, wouldnt it be great if they planted grass on the tracks like they do in france?

[CE_ugh]

Ive always wondered why the 610 overpass at Post Oak spanned such a long distance. Looking at the proposed route for the uptown line, it looks like they actually worked with TXDot and made room for the below grade alignment. There is a large gap between piers. Of course I somehow wouldn't be surprised when the freeway mainlanes is finished there is no space for the line to exit to a proposed elevated portion in the median of the freeway.

[nmainguy]

Ive always wondered why the 610 overpass at Post Oak spanned such a long distance.

Are you talking about the overpass just east of the Uptown shopping area? It is the only location where Post Oak intersects with the loop. It doesn't look like it has ever been altered from it's original configuration. Am I missing something?

[tierwestah]

I'm not too enthused about the choice of diesel LRT myself, especially given the likelihood that fuel prices are only going to increase over the coming years. There's also the noise and pollution issue, although I've heard people say that the River Line in New Jersey is remarkably quiet for being DLRT and I'm pretty sure METRO would use the same ultra-low-sulphur diesel for their rail fleet as they currently use for their bus fleet.

Frank Wilson obviously wants to build these things as quickly and as cheaply as possible. And, since none of the BRT lines are going to be electrified, why not eliminate the expense of designing, procuring and building catenary systems altogether and go with diesel on the new LRT line as well? Also, using diesel LRT along Westpark makes the eventual extension out to Gessner, Westchase or even Fort Bend County that much easier.

As with the BRT lines, they'll probably make room for electrical conduits and vaults so that future electrification can occur. And, as somebody else noted, diesel LRT works similar to standard freight locomotives in that the diesel engine does not actually drive the vehicle but rather generates power for the electric drive motors, so acceleration, braking, etc. should be similar to that of the existing electric trains. Furthermore, it's likely the trucks, bogeys, motors, etc. Siemens uses on their diesel LRT product would be similar to that used by their electric LRT product, which would make cross-maintience of the two fleets easier (provided, of course, that METRO goes with Siemens for its DLRT product).

One downside is that the whiners will use this as another weapon against a Richmond alignment. "The diesel train is going to worsen pollution in our neighborhood!" They'll no doubt claim. As if the 25 and 53 buses that constantly run up and down Richmond don't do that already...

no disrespect intended but... what the hell you just say? I'm sorry but i was with you in the first paragraph but after that i was asleep

[scarface]

no disrespect intended but... what the hell you just say? I'm sorry but i was with you in the first paragraph but after that i was asleep

You don't have to be so cold about it but i zoned out on it too!

[CE_ugh]

Are you talking about the overpass just east of the Uptown shopping area? It is the only location where Post Oak intersects with the loop. It doesn't look like it has ever been altered from it's original configuration. Am I missing something?

Really? It seems to me to be a very long overpass. Much longer than those at San Felipe and Westhiemer

[ssullivan]

Really? It seems to me to be a very long overpass. Much longer than those at San Felipe and Westhiemer

The new West Loop overpass at Post Oak is considerably longer than the one it replaced. I assumed it was to allow for eventual light rail as well.

[infinite_jim]

Is there any business coalitions for the LRT on Richmond/Westpark/Westheimer ?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Will the new choo choos be the same as the current choo choo? I sure hope so, i like the way it looks

Big KUDOS on that one

[The Great Hizzy!]

Putz.

U.S. Rep John Culberson told residents of neighborhoods along Richmond Avenue on Wednesday that he wants to know how far west they think a light rail line on that street should extend.

Culberson, R-Houston, noted that Westpark, the alternative route being considered by the Metropolitan Transit Authority, ends at Kirby Drive and would not extend to Main Street to link with the downtown rail system. He also noted that several speakers and groups favor light rail on the east end of Richmond, where the planned University line would cross Main Street and extend to the University of Houston and Texas Southern University.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/3790981.html

[MidtownCoog]

Nice of the fool to chime in.

[nmainguy]

I'm not surprised. I've always said the ballot did not say Westpark Rd. I believe they used the name Westpark in a generic way the same way they used the name Uptown in the same ballot.

Culberson and Wong are in the same anti-rail boat so don't be surprised if they succeed in torpedoing the U Line into little bitty pieces.

...and I agree, Hizzy: putz

[Laurence Simon]

Have any of these people chiming in actually seen the route along Westpark up close?

Mayeb they'd notice the fact that they rarely come across any METRO buses during their inspection. The 9 is a Limited run, every 25 minutes or so, and stops around 8:30 at night.

Oh, and it barely runs Saturday, and doesn't run at all on Sundays.

They close the bridge over the tracks at Newcastle every few months for Soapbox. Does that give any indication how low a priority Westpark is for drivers and METRO?

Where's the hordes of people and businesses protesting putting the route along Westpark?

Easy. There aren't enough people or businesses along Westpark to bother organizing a protest. Which means there's not enough to be served by running it along Westpark.

A rail line along Westpark serving Richmond? Who wants to join up with me in the heat of afternoon sun walking from where a stop on Westpark would be, under the freeway, and over to Richmond or even Alabama?

Oh, and remember... METRO will do what they did with the Main Street lines and other routes adjacent to the Red Line... cutbacks and reroutes to feed into the line. That's going to make riders of the heavily-used 65, 53 and the 25 *really* pleased.

[MidtownCoog]

Easy. There aren't enough people or businesses along Westpark to bother organizing a protest. Which means there's not enough to be served by running it along Westpark.

Excellent point.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Politicians elected to represent the Houston area and not doing so, should be voted out of office.

[Laurence Simon]

Politicians elected to represent the Houston area and not doing so, should be voted out of office.

My voter registration card shows I vote in the 7th.

Culbertson represents the 7th.

Not making the same mistake twice.

Bye bye, Culbertson.

[TheNiche]

Where's the hordes of people and businesses protesting putting the route along Westpark?

Easy. There aren't enough people or businesses along Westpark to bother organizing a protest. Which means there's not enough to be served by running it along Westpark.

To play devil's advocate, one might argue that such businesses don't exist yet and that they can be created there in great density by speculatively placing the light rail line there. Then we'd have essentially created a new commercial corridor without resulting in the demolition of the old existing one.

That said, I think you've made the best point I've heard so far and completely agree with you.

[MaxConcrete]

Building transit on former freight rail lines is a very effective strategy for actually getting things done with a mimimal amount of community opposition. Virtually all the light rail lines in Dallas are build on former freight rail corridors.

In addition, a former freight line is generally very amenable to a dedicated right-of-way with grade separations. This allows faster service and virtually eliminates the risk of accidents. Dallas trains go 50-60 mph.

If the University line is intended to speed patrons to downtown, then the Westpark corridor is clearly superior. If it is intended to serve the local area with a slower service, Richmond is better. My perception is that Metro's purpose is to serve the local area.

[nmainguy]

If the University line is intended to speed patrons to downtown, then the Westpark corridor is clearly superior. If it is intended to serve the local area with a slower service, Richmond is better. My perception is that Metro's purpose is to serve the local area.

I agree with your perception.

However if they do choose Westpark, no one who opposes Richmond has yet come up with a feasable solution to: How do you get from Kirby to Main? I've heard:

1. Down Kirby to Bissonet; east to the Red Line. I don't think you need to come up with a solution as to how to merge with the Red Line as every buisness owner, homeowner and cat and dog on Bissonet would kill it.

2. Elevate it above the south wall of 59 in order to get over the bridges. That will certainly please Southhampton. NOT.

There were a few other un-thought out, bone headed suggestions like tunnels with mag-lev trains, monorail,

etc...

Editor? Should we merge this topic with the existing thread http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=5103?

[Subdude]

Should we merge this topic with the existing thread http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=5103?

Thanks for the catch. The two topics were merged.

[nmainguy]

Have any of these people chiming in actually seen the route along Westpark up close?

I'm not sure which side of the building Wong's condo is [16f] but if it's on the SW Freeway side, she couldn't possibly miss the barren Westpark...could she? I mean...that would be so Wong...

[2112]

What about from a ridership perspective..

These cities that have monorail, like Vegas.. it's my understanding that ridership is way less then what we experience here... Any validity to this or is it the same levels of ridership.. but becasue the cost is so much more, its just less cost effective ?

Agreed. These monorails are not even in the same league as Houston's lightrail, or any light rail for that matter. Houston's light rail far and greatly surpasses Seattle's monorail in ridership, efficiency, and cost. The reason is that one is an urban transportation system, and the other is an amusement ride. The Seattle monorail gets people from one corner in downtown and then stops at what basically is a tourist destination. It's more in line with our old Astroworld tram taking people from thier cars to the park entrance.

Again, the two are apples and oranges. So any comparisions between the two are futile at best.

[Highway6]

Looks like we should start hearing which way Metro is officially leaning in about 3 months.

April 14, 2006, 8:12AM

Metro board awards light rail contracts

$40 million OK'd for studies and preliminary design of routes

By RAD SALLEE

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Plans for a light rail line at the center of a debate over its route

[tierwestah]

out, bone headed suggestions like tunnels with mag-lev trains, monorail,

i'M GOING TO REPOST MY REPLY SINCE A MODERATOR JUST GOT ON ME ABOUT MY PREVIOUS REPLY. I'M GUESSING DUE TO THE NASTY LANGUAGE AND PROFANITY THAT WAS IN MY OTHER POST.

HERE'S WHAT I SAID IN MY POST THAT WAS DELETED WITHOUT THE LANGUAGE...

TO NMAINGUY, I GUESS I'M A BONEHAD SINCE I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE TUNNEL. I'M GOING TO BE A BONEHEAD AND SAY IT LOUD AND PROUD FOR ME AND ALL THE OTHER BONEHEADS WHO DON'T WANT THIS UNIVERSITY LINE BUILT IN THE SAME FASHION AS OUR MAIN STREET LINE THAT WAS THE CRASH CAPITAL OF THE U.S. IN THE FIRST 2 YEARS OF OPERATION.

THERE MODS... HAPPY? >

[VelvetJ]

Building transit on former freight rail lines is a very effective strategy for actually getting things done with a mimimal amount of community opposition. Virtually all the light rail lines in Dallas are build on former freight rail corridors.

In addition, a former freight line is generally very amenable to a dedicated right-of-way with grade separations. This allows faster service and virtually eliminates the risk of accidents. Dallas trains go 50-60 mph.

Now MaxConcrete where were you and those like you, when I was screaming about removing those rail lines from along Westpark in 1999/2000 to make way for that toll road (which by the way was at a complete halt yesterday evening during rush hour from before the beltway on out)? Wasn't using existing rail lines brought up in the 90's but was deemed TOO EXPENSIVE for Houston? The next thing you know Houstonians are going to be talking about placing rail tracks along the Katy Freeway.

By the way, it looks as if the only solution is for both sides to compromise and the train will have to go on both Richmond and Westpark. I mean apparently if the train stays on Richmond Culberson will block it. Just another consequence of voting the likes into office I suppose.

[dbigtex56]

THERE MODERATORS... HAPPY? >

Could be happier.

Please don't post using all caps.

[RedScare]

From reading some of Mssr. Culberson's comments at the rail meetings, it appears he may be making cryptic comments about where HE will allow the rail to run. He seems to be making Shepherd Road the western limit of the Richmond rail. While I think that skipping Greenway Plaza is stupid, considering the number of office towers, as well as it's larger medians, there may be a compromise here.

If the rail turned south at Shepherd/Greenbriar, then turned west at the US 59 feeder road, it could still access Greenway Plaza along it's southern border. It could then cross US 59 at some convenient point, turning westward again at Westpark. This would take the Afton Oaks opposition out of the equation, seemingly settle Culberson's objections, and still keep the rail close enough to employment centers and apartments to keep ridership up.

Again, this would not be my preferred route, but if the man with the purse can be satisfied without compromising the entire route, it must be considered. A feeder road alignment will only be 3 to 4 short blocks from Richmond, so it is still accessible.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

From reading some of Mssr. Culberson's comments at the rail meetings, it appears he may be making cryptic comments about where HE will allow the rail to run. He seems to be making Shepherd Road the western limit of the Richmond rail. While I think that skipping Greenway Plaza is stupid, considering the number of office towers, as well as it's larger medians, there may be a compromise here.

If the rail turned south at Shepherd/Greenbriar, then turned west at the US 59 feeder road, it could still access Greenway Plaza along it's southern border. It could then cross US 59 at some convenient point, turning westward again at Westpark. This would take the Afton Oaks opposition out of the equation, seemingly settle Culberson's objections, and still keep the rail close enough to employment centers and apartments to keep ridership up.

Again, this would not be my preferred route, but if the man with the purse can be satisfied without compromising the entire route, it must be considered. A feeder road alignment will only be 3 to 4 short blocks from Richmond, so it is still accessible.

Sounds like it is time for another tea party....................