METRO Next - 2040 Vision

[cspwal]

7 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

The Aquarium within walking distance of the station as well. Whatever happened the the Aquarium expansion into that empty lot?

That expansion was just a fish tale

[TheSirDingle]

You know I wonder what the plausibility of using existing freight tracks as commuter rail/local rail lines would be? 

Lets say you use the freight line going besides I-10 with trains that have a schedule akin to the metro park and ride buses, this line would go from NWTC (Maybe CBD directly or on a transfer) to even Katy; maybe Brookshire. This could even be done for something like the 290 corridor, or go down east I-10 and you can have a Baytown line. 

It doesn't seem that crazy, well excluding political pressure and maybe even railroad push back. It would definitely help the super commuter problem, and pairing it with the current planned expansions would make most of the Houston Metro's main hubs and spokes easily navigable by train/BRT, while also allowing for lower car use. 

But how much would that cost, especially connecting it to the local PT network. I would think the CBD -> Cypress line alone would be in the $500 million range (including electrifying the rail, stations, ROW, etc). Would this even be worth it for lets say a potential 15k/day boarding total? 

All of these LRT extensions and BRT additions are making me wonder how we can use/update existing infrastructure to compliment this massive inner city system we have in the pipeline. It would be a great thing to have, and would help the connectivity of the city even more, but would it be easy to do? Hell no. Do I think it is possible to do and within the next 20 years? Hell yes!

[Ross]

3 hours ago, TheSirDingle said:

You know I wonder what the plausibility of using existing freight tracks as commuter rail/local rail lines would be? 

Lets say you use the freight line going besides I-10 with trains that have a schedule akin to the metro park and ride buses, this line would go from NWTC (Maybe CBD directly or on a transfer) to even Katy; maybe Brookshire. This could even be done for something like the 290 corridor, or go down east I-10 and you can have a Baytown line. 

It doesn't seem that crazy, well excluding political pressure and maybe even railroad push back. It would definitely help the super commuter problem, and pairing it with the current planned expansions would make most of the Houston Metro's main hubs and spokes easily navigable by train/BRT, while also allowing for lower car use. 

But how much would that cost, especially connecting it to the local PT network. I would think the CBD -> Cypress line alone would be in the $500 million range (including electrifying the rail, stations, ROW, etc). Would this even be worth it for lets say a potential 15k/day boarding total? 

All of these LRT extensions and BRT additions are making me wonder how we can use/update existing infrastructure to compliment this massive inner city system we have in the pipeline. It would be a great thing to have, and would help the connectivity of the city even more, but would it be easy to do? Hell no. Do I think it is possible to do and within the next 20 years? Hell yes!

There are no railroad tracks along I-10 until you get to Katy-Ft Bend Road.

The railroads are not going to allow commuter traffic on their rails, since they are full of freight traffic

$500 million wouldn't even begin to be enough for a single rail line to a single suburb, with no intermediate stations.

BRT and buses are the short term answer.

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, Ross said:

There are no railroad tracks along I-10 until you get to Katy-Ft Bend Road.

The railroads are not going to allow commuter traffic on their rails, since they are full of freight traffic

$500 million wouldn't even begin to be enough for a single rail line to a single suburb, with no intermediate stations.

BRT and buses are the short term answer.

Pretty much.

There was something that was floated to allow commuter rail to have preference on freight rail in the infrastructure bill, but I can't imagine that is going to happen.

[mattyt36]

1 hour ago, wilcal said:

Pretty much.

There was something that was floated to allow commuter rail to have preference on freight rail in the infrastructure bill, but I can't imagine that is going to happen.

That piqued my interest.

Actually Amtrak-specific:

Text - S.1500 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Rail Passenger Fairness Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

But appears right already exists:

49 U.S. Code § 24308 - Use of facilities and providing services to Amtrak | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

[iah77]

Why do they propose such nice things in areas where less people will use them while ignoring very dense areas like Gulfton where bus usage is very high? I feel they really need some program to promote density around the stations to make it actually work. Like the area around Shephard and 1-10 is literally an open stone counter place and not friendly to pedestrians etc.  

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, iah77 said:

Why do they propose such nice things in areas where less people will use them while ignoring very dense areas like Gulfton where bus usage is very high? I feel they really need some program to promote density around the stations to make it actually work. Like the area around Shephard and 1-10 is literally an open stone counter place and not friendly to pedestrians etc.  

https://www.ridemetro.org/MetroPDFs/METRONEXT/METRONext-Moving-Forward-Plan-Summary.pdf  (They are planing BRT service to Gulfton)

Edited August 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[crock]

7 minutes ago, iah77 said:

Why do they propose such nice things in areas where less people will use them while ignoring very dense areas like Gulfton where bus usage is very high? I feel they really need some program to promote density around the stations to make it actually work. Like the area around Shephard and 1-10 is literally an open stone counter place and not friendly to pedestrians etc.  

the worst part is the one possible stop that's actually in a pretty-dense neighborhood (Houston Ave/First Ward) is the least likely to be built. 

[Justin Welling]

@iah77 Gulfton is getting a new bus route on Sunday connecting Gulfton to both Hilcroft P&R and Lower Uptown TC where the Silver Line (Post Oak BRT terminates). 

I get what you're saying...I would say that Shepherd has potential to become very dense. We are already seeing it around Shepherd and Washington with all the new apartments. The inner Katy BRT line will also connect Northwest TC (METRO's largest transit center) with Downtown so it will play a key role in METRO'S regional network. 

[Texasota]

I think the Heights/Yale station is another to voice strong support for - the Walmart and Sprouts parcels are trash but surrounding development is really starting to get rolling and I could see them being redeveloped in the foreseeable future.

[mattyt36]

32 minutes ago, iah77 said:

Why do they propose such nice things in areas where less people will use them while ignoring very dense areas like Gulfton where bus usage is very high? I feel they really need some program to promote density around the stations to make it actually work. Like the area around Shephard and 1-10 is literally an open stone counter place and not friendly to pedestrians etc.  

The design concept seems to be to serve the routes down major arteries, no?  Just like the CTA lines down the Dan Ryan and the Eisenhower.  Not that that makes it better . . . those aren't exactly the most hospitable stations.

Such are the difficulties in designing transit routes in a city with relatively low density.  A Rapid spur down Shepherd/Durham seems like it would be a no-brainer, though, although it would increase headways to the Northwest Transit Center.  Maybe a separate Rapid line down Memorial that turns on to Shepherd.

Oh well, can't have it all.

[j_cuevas713]

4 hours ago, iah77 said:

Why do they propose such nice things in areas where less people will use them while ignoring very dense areas like Gulfton where bus usage is very high? I feel they really need some program to promote density around the stations to make it actually work. Like the area around Shephard and 1-10 is literally an open stone counter place and not friendly to pedestrians etc.  

I spoke to someone from Memorial TIRZ and they said the station would upgrade all pedestrian infrastructure in the area.

Edited August 18, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[wilcal]

Was looking back through the proposed stations maps and saw that the funded and planned, but temporarily pushed back bicycle connector from Cottage Grove to Memorial Park is not pictured (that I marked in red below) :(

They've evidently been waiting for 18+ months for railroad approval to go underneath the tracks and the funding has been pushed back to FY 2023. 

The project seemed in doubt to me because of TXDOT wanting to expand I-10 without an elevated platform. I guess this project is just in limbo. It is really inexcusable how inaccessible Memorial Park is to cyclists and pedestrians. 

[wilcal]

Also, this may be a duh, but I hadn't noticed before that they are planning to potentially use the green/purple stops downtown in both directions.

[j_cuevas713]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:50 AM, wilcal said:

Was looking back through the proposed stations maps and saw that the funded and planned, but temporarily pushed back bicycle connector from Cottage Grove to Memorial Park is not pictured (that I marked in red below) :(

They've evidently been waiting for 18+ months for railroad approval to go underneath the tracks and the funding has been pushed back to FY 2023. 

The project seemed in doubt to me because of TXDOT wanting to expand I-10 without an elevated platform. I guess this project is just in limbo. It is really inexcusable how inaccessible Memorial Park is to cyclists and pedestrians. 

That’s actually one of the main reasons I never ride my bike that way. It almost seems like a hassle to get to Memorial Park. 

[X.R.]

Big news, seems like things are proceeding smoothly for the University/Richmond line: 

https://twitter.com/Gail_HPM/status/1430925115617914887?s=20

 

Quick Edit for those who don't want to click: Metro voted today to commit 40 mil over the next two years to get the project's development started and Metro's presentation to the federal transit authority was "well received." 

Edited August 26, 2021 by X.R.

[Brooklyn173]

Is there a reason that METRO doesn't get the project up and running early - on a much simplified scale - and then spend the next bunch of years building it fully out? One of the benefits of BRT is that is supposed to be relatively quick and easy. Even a low scale BRT - basically a glorified express bus - would show that something is happening now rather than waiting for years for a full scale project to be built out. I had a boss who would always quote the saying "The prefect is the enemy of the good".

[wilcal]

47 minutes ago, Brooklyn173 said:

Is there a reason that METRO doesn't get the project up and running early - on a much simplified scale - and then spend the next bunch of years building it fully out? One of the benefits of BRT is that is supposed to be relatively quick and easy. Even a low scale BRT - basically a glorified express bus - would show that something is happening now rather than waiting for years for a full scale project to be built out. I had a boss who would always quote the saying "The prefect is the enemy of the good".

Good news, we've got a whole bunch of buses that run from Downtown to the NW Transit Center right now, so you can get a preview of the Inner Katy BRT already. Some even stop only a few times on the way.

In reality, when you lose the actual benefits of BRT, mostly separated lane/special buses/at-grade boarding in stations it doesn't make as much sense to run one super long route when it would overlap with a bunch of existing routes (like the university line). 

I do think that they will likely open up the project section by section and not wait until the entire thing is finished. 

 

[BEES?!]

On 8/26/2021 at 5:51 PM, wilcal said:

Good news, we've got a whole bunch of buses that run from Downtown to the NW Transit Center right now, so you can get a preview of the Inner Katy BRT already. Some even stop only a few times on the way.

In reality, when you lose the actual benefits of BRT, mostly separated lane/special buses/at-grade boarding in stations it doesn't make as much sense to run one super long route when it would overlap with a bunch of existing routes (like the university line). 

I do think that they will likely open up the project section by section and not wait until the entire thing is finished. 

 

Yeah this thing is 25mi long along the entire corridor. I would be really shocked if they don’t open it 1 segment at a time. I’m willing to bet they want to try to connect up Lower Uptown/Westpark TC to Wheeler quickly and get that open first

[wilcal]

9 minutes ago, BEES?! said:

Yeah this thing is 25mi long along the entire corridor. I would be really shocked if they don’t open it 1 segment at a time. I’m willing to bet they want to try to connect up Lower Uptown/Westpark TC to Wheeler quickly and get that open first

100% agree. As mentioned above, a good chunk of the engineering work is already done in those two sections, so I'm sure that will be the focus. Well, segments 1.5 and 2 since the current transit center would be partially into segment 1. 

I know that there was talk of making the I-10 BRT continue on to the Galleria/existing Silver Line so as to not force a connection. I wonder if they would do the same, at least temporarily onto the University BRT if they start with these two sections.

Would be kind of cool if a bus that starts at Wheeler continued Westpark/Lower Uptown TC then continued up to NWTC and then back to downtown. 

[BEES?!]

22 hours ago, wilcal said:

100% agree. As mentioned above, a good chunk of the engineering work is already done in those two sections, so I'm sure that will be the focus. Well, segments 1.5 and 2 since the current transit center would be partially into segment 1. 

I know that there was talk of making the I-10 BRT continue on to the Galleria/existing Silver Line so as to not force a connection. I wonder if they would do the same, at least temporarily onto the University BRT if they start with these two sections.

Would be kind of cool if a bus that starts at Wheeler continued Westpark/Lower Uptown TC then continued up to NWTC and then back to downtown. 

That’d be awesome. Like a circulator system. I’m curious to see what metro’s got in mind. (If this idea has been proposed. It’d be interesting)

Edited August 31, 2021 by BEES?!

[wilcal]

16 minutes ago, BEES?! said:

That’d be awesome. Like a circulator system. I’m curious to see what metro’s got in mind. (If this idea has been proposed. It’d be interesting)

I've heard from a well-informed person that downtown to Galleria would likely be combined into a single line. 

[hindesky]

https://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/METRORapid-University-Corridor.aspx

[corbs315]

14 minutes ago, hindesky said:

https://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/METRORapid-University-Corridor.aspx

I too got this mailer today :) 

[BeerNut]

I would post my mailer but it got wet...

[samagon]

I lived right around the block from the Eastwood Transit Center for over 10 years. so many buses breaking laws, running stop signs, running red lights, straddling multiple lanes of traffic.

I still live in the area and still have to interact with that area from time to time, but I do so grudgingly (especially when the Amazon trucks are factored in). I fear this is only going to get worse for the Eastwood Transit Center, and other hubs of this BRT line.

that being said, this is going to be a much needed artery of our transit infrastructure and overall will be a huge win for the city. I just wish things weren't so bad in regards to a few bad drivers.

I guess the real thing that should be done is to encourage everyone reading to call the hotline and report the bus number when you see the event happen.

[j_cuevas713]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:18 AM, samagon said:

I lived right around the block from the Eastwood Transit Center for over 10 years. so many buses breaking laws, running stop signs, running red lights, straddling multiple lanes of traffic.

I still live in the area and still have to interact with that area from time to time, but I do so grudgingly (especially when the Amazon trucks are factored in). I fear this is only going to get worse for the Eastwood Transit Center, and other hubs of this BRT line.

that being said, this is going to be a much needed artery of our transit infrastructure and overall will be a huge win for the city. I just wish things weren't so bad in regards to a few bad drivers.

I guess the real thing that should be done is to encourage everyone reading to call the hotline and report the bus number when you see the event happen.

This is going to be a much needed upgrade to that street and for the area. I love the old charm of the neighborhood but infrastructure is still lacking, even with the Green Line running down Harrisburg. 

[wilcal]

Virtual Open House for University Line BRT is now up: https://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/METRORapid-University-Corridor-Project.aspx

Link to PDF: http://metrorapid-ucp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/University-Corridor-Project-Virtual-Open-House.pdf

Stops/alignment by segment:

Opens 2028 :/

 

[mattyt36]

So strange it turns south before entering the heart of Greenway Plaza, what a waste.  Seems like Weslayan makes much more sense than Edloe.

[sapo2367]

Weslyan is an underpass, while Edloe is an overpass -- that probably has a big influence on their choice.

[editor]

I didn't see any ridership projections in the PDF.  Are they somewhere else?

[mattyt36]

21 minutes ago, sapo2367 said:

Weslyan is an underpass, while Edloe is an overpass -- that probably has a big influence on their choice.

Ah, I get it.  Thanks.  

[Texasota]

Weird to me that the station in segment 3 just east of the Wheeler transit center isn't further east at Almeda/ closer to Young Womens' College

[Arboosto]

I'm disappointed they kept the routing around Afton Oaks from the gold University LRT alignment. The neighborhood concerns for LRT running through Afton Oaks just aren't as valid for BRT. Richmond is a 6-lane major thoroughfare there and BRT is perfectly appropriate along that road. Wealthy neighborhoods shouldn't be able to inconvenience all transit users just to maintain the "neighborhood charm" along a road that is laid out like a divided highway. Routing BRT south of 610 before Galleria makes the Newcastle stop almost worthless (there is a wall along the 59 feeder that blocks all foot-traffic north of 59 and rail corridor that blocks all foot-traffic on the east). They need to get the BRT into Galleria along Richmond. Use the existing Silver Line infrastructure (saving some money) at Richmond and LUTC so that University Line users can actually get into the Galleria without having to transfer to another line or foot it across a highway.

[Texasota]

I don't think the Afton Oaks whiners are the only consideration here. Using Metro ROW has to make things *much* simpler and cheaper, and I can understand why they'd want to switch to it as soon as possible.

I wish they had taken it all the way to the utility ROW though.

[H-Town Man]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:11 PM, X.R. said:

Yeah the way I read it is the same as @Houston19514 . It sounds like the enviro studies and pre-construction stuff for the whole line is under-way and construction on the thing as a whole doesn't begin until 2025. At this particular meeting however, they chose to focus on that certain piece.

A significant date, since the whole Metro service area voted to have 78 miles of light rail finished by then.

 

[j_cuevas713]

Wait so Segment 2 isn't just going to finish at the new Westpark Transit Center? Why wouldn't they get that section connected to the TC and then build off of that? Seems like an unnecessary delay to service. 

[wilcal]

10 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Wait so Segment 2 isn't just going to finish at the new Westpark Transit Center? Why wouldn't they get that section connected to the TC and then build off of that? Seems like an unnecessary delay to service. 

Metro is going to be building the entire line as one large project from what I was told. I don't think that they'll jump around. I may be misremembering, but I thought that there was mention of doing Westpark to segment 2 first, but that wouldn't make sense with the graphics they have released. 

[rechlin]

A couple observations:

• In addition to the Edloe overpass being more convenient than crossing 69 at Weslayan, I think Metro also wants to get into the dedicated ROW as much as possible, and the old railway ROW is south of Westpark beginning at Edloe, getting the bus off the city streets for an extra half mile vs crossing at Weslayan.
• I seem to recall reading that their plan was to do Segment 2 plus the part of Segment 1 connecting to the Westpark Transit Center first.  Though maybe that has changed and they will just start on it all at once?

[hindesky]

25 mile bus lane across Houston.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/university-corridor-bus-lane-metro-16669393.php

 

[sapo2367]

They really went with the most dismissive headline they could here, glad to see there isn’t an agenda :/

 

[cspwal]

I mean I’m also annoyed that it’s 9 years after the bond passed

[Andrew Ewert]

The article doesn't specifically mention this isn't the case, but why would you not open the line after a few stops are done and expand service incrementally? If they're really waiting for the whole thing to be done in 2028, that's stupid.

[j_cuevas713]

I have no idea why this is going to take so long to actually start. Between this and the Inner Katy officially being announced Metro needs to hit the gas pedal a little harder.

[Houston19514]

35 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I have no idea why this is going to take so long to actually start. Between this and the Inner Katy officially being announced Metro needs to hit the gas pedal a little harder.

That's how things roll when you're using federal money.

[Houston19514]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:50 PM, Andrew Ewert said:

The article doesn't specifically mention this isn't the case, but why would you not open the line after a few stops are done and expand service incrementally? If they're really waiting for the whole thing to be done in 2028, that's stupid.

I believe the plan is for the route to be split up into 5 separate contracts, so that construction will proceed on all 5 segments simultaneously and the entire route will be completed at approximately the same time.

[Andrew Ewert]

Then that's even dumber if it's going to take until 2028 to even complete one segment, even if that means that it will all be done by then.

[Houston19514]

13 minutes ago, Andrew Ewert said:

Then that's even dumber if it's going to take until 2028 to even complete one segment, even if that means that it will all be done by then.

Show me federally funded projects that move significantly faster...   Agree it's dumb, but the complaint is to the federal government, not to Metro. The construction time line does seem a little long, but I know Metro is working on shortening that.  And in fairness this will really be quite a complicated construction project.   I think there's a reasonably good chance this project will be delivered early.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Houston19514

[BEES?!]

Is it likely that those are the final alignments/station choices for the University Corridor? (Sidenote- is it just going to be called the University corridor? Or are they going to give it a color like the Silver line?)

[j_cuevas713]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:13 AM, BEES?! said:

Is it likely that those are the final alignments/station choices for the University Corridor? (Sidenote- is it just going to be called the University corridor? Or are they going to give it a color like the Silver line?)

I believe the University Line is supposed to be blue