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Timoric

University Debates: Sports, Fundings, and Developments

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But that was at least a discussion about real issues, such as the balance between shopping convenience and detrimental physical impact, the propriety of the city encouraging development that its own citizens don't want, etc. This is all nonsense. All we have is one nondescript rendering. Nobody knows anything, and now we are comparing ratings of football games.

 

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But that was at least a discussion about real issues, such as the balance between shopping convenience and detrimental physical impact, the propriety of the city encouraging development that its own citizens don't want, etc. This is all nonsense. All we have is one nondescript rendering. Nobody knows anything, and now we are comparing ratings of football games.

640px-Texas_Longhorn_logo.svg.png

^^^ awe come now h-townman... you know what the real problem is...

folks just need to get over themselves and stop being so jealous of TEXAS and our BURNT ORANGE KINGDOM.

why is it that every time that TEXAS announces something moving forward, the conspiracy theorist spring forth like USA drones getting after ISIS??

one can only guess that its just part of human nature around these parts... right?

well, never fear.. for when all is said and finally done...

its-good-to-be-the-king-5.png

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because of the entitled attitude 

 

 

640px-Texas_Longhorn_logo.svg.png

^^^ awe come now h-townman... you know what the real problem is...

folks just need to get over themselves and stop being so jealous of TEXAS and our BURNT ORANGE KINGDOM.

why is it that every time that TEXAS announces something moving forward, the conspiracy theorist spring forth like USA drones getting after ISIS??

one can only guess that its just part of human nature around these parts... right?

well, never fear.. for when all is said and finally done...

its-good-to-be-the-king-5.png

 

 

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No, but I want to see the plans for this new UT sports complex. Sounds pretty interesting.

Oh and Monarch it's good to be the King unless your Louis the 16th.

That didn't work out so well. Living high on the hog doesn't always make you happy.

 

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No, but I want to see the plans for this new UT sports complex. Sounds pretty interesting.

Oh and Monarch it's good to be the King unless your Louis the 16th.

That didn't work out so well. Living high on the hog doesn't always make you happy.

^^^ oh its all good my great pal bobruss.  not to mention, from what we are now hearing upon various UT websites, the new basketball arena renderings are looking like a cool futuristic spaceship.  i cannot wait to view them as well as the DKR stadium project.... wow...

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^^^ oh its all good my great pal bobruss. not to mention, from what we are now hearing upon various UT websites, the new basketball arena renderings are looking like a cool futuristic spaceship. i cannot wait to view them as well as the DKR stadium project.... wow...

When did you graduate from UT?

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^^^ oh you haven't seen nothing yet my wonderful pal h-townman, just wait until we officially announce our forthcoming DKR SEZ / MONCRIEF NEUHAUS (football stadium full enclosure and expansion / renovation / redevelopment project.  this will undoubtedly make DKR MEMORIAL STADIUM... the collegiate stadium of futuristic dreams.  not to mention, our new and forthcoming futuristic state of the art $600mm+ basketball arena... the established sentiment will only get worser.... 

Is this UT fund raising or tax money?

Edited by jmitch94

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Is this UT fund raising or tax money?

^^^ fundraising.  there is currently a HUGE billion dollar athletics campaign currently underway.  the brand new TENNIS FACILITY is currently under construction and fully funded.  however, the current $$$ campaign is slated for the DKR SEZ project as well as the new basketball arena...

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Can we settle the whole religion thing while we're at it?

 

That part is easy....God is on Baylor's side.

 

5a453afd7ee6f1f25b660612b9e08255.gif

 

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640px-Texas_Longhorn_logo.svg.png

^^^ awe come now h-townman... you know what the real problem is...

folks just need to get over themselves and stop being so jealous of TEXAS and our BURNT ORANGE KINGDOM.

why is it that every time that TEXAS announces something moving forward, the conspiracy theorist spring forth like USA drones getting after ISIS??

one can only guess that its just part of human nature around these parts... right?

well, never fear.. for when all is said and finally done...

its-good-to-be-the-king-5.png

 

 

 

inthenews-001.jpg

 

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Of course he is not going to be concerned.

He is not in major competition from UT. They serve different markets. That's Like a speciality cup cake store concerned about a giant golden coral moving in across the street. They are competing for different buyers so they won't be worried. Now UH would be like Lubys.

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He is retiring so who cares.......he doesn't say that if he doesn't resign

Tsu's target demographic is what ut wants also...an academically sound African American and to fill certain quotas they will offer them more financial aid than what tsu would offer at times

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He is retiring so who cares.......he doesn't say that if he doesn't resign

Tsu's target demographic is what ut wants also...an academically sound African American and to fill certain quotas they will offer them more financial aid than what tsu would offer at times

I don't think these schools are battling for demographic. Tons of smart black kids out there to go around. (Although we would not hear the end of it if PV would try to build a campus here).

What they are jostling for is prominence, research dollars and top people in academia.

TSU is aiming to stay alive, UH is aiming to get on UT's standing, UT is aiming to expand its standing. TSU is not even a threat to UH, let alone UT. Conversely, UH is not much of a concern for TSU, so why would UT be?

Let's face it TSU is not one of those Atlanta HBCUs. Young top AA's are not anxious to enter TSU, but eying UH as an equally exciting alternative. A School like UT would be their top choice, UH would be the school they will settle for and TSU would be their safety.

Now there will be a lot of kids who are seeking the school culture that only HBCUs offer, but more often than not those are not the top tier students.

For me TSU was never an option. I wanted to stay local. UH was an ok option for me applied to RICE as a long shot, was floored when I got in. I don't have anything against TSU, it's just not close to being a top tier option so of course won't be in much competition with top tier schools

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I think the simple answer from a Houston perspective is: more is better.  UT is going to deploy the resources from that $25 billion endowment somewhere in the state - why not try to maximize the amount coming to Houston?  UH should negotiate a no faculty poaching agreement and Big 12 entry.

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If the rules apply to UH, they should apply to UT. When UH was exploring a campus on the north side of Houston, approval was stalled on the basis that it would encroach upon Sam Houston State. UH didn't throw a "hissy fit" and complied with legislative sentiment. But UT doesn't care about legislative sentiment because it doesn't need the legislature's money to buy the land. So where is the money coming from? Oh yeah, the PUF, that's where. A fund that enriches UT in the amount of almost a half a billion dollars a year, that UH does not receive. So that's playing by the rules?

 

You can be assured that UH will contest this vigorously. If it takes challenging the discriminatory manner in which UT and TAMU are benefited through the PUF payments that will happen too. Dr. Khator has her allies in the legislature and in the city. Don't think for a second she's going to let this go without a fight. 

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Bingo. 

 

In addition to the state shutting down UH's Tomball aspirations, it also shut down A&Ms merger with South Texas College of Law due to the proximity to UH and TSU. The Aggies had to go up North to Fort Worth and Texas Wesleyan were there wasn't as much competition. 

 

What I want to know is why isn't UT talking specifics? Is it because they don't have them yet? If that is the case, then spending hundreds of millions would be stupid. If they do have them, are they being secretive for a reason? It seems like a STATE run institution should have to answer first before spending. Is that too much to ask? 

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Bingo. 

 

In addition to the state shutting down UH's Tomball aspirations, it also shut down A&Ms merger with South Texas College of Law due to the proximity to UH and TSU. The Aggies had to go up North to Fort Worth and Texas Wesleyan were there wasn't as much competition. 

 

What I want to know is why isn't UT talking specifics? Is it because they don't have them yet? If that is the case, then spending hundreds of millions would be stupid. If they do have them, are they being secretive for a reason? It seems like a STATE run institution should have to answer first before spending. Is that too much to ask? 

 

It's dawned on me that we've got this backwards.  The State doesn't run UT, UT runs the State.  What were we thinking?

 

Be back in a moment...some police vehicles just pulled up in front of my house...gotta see what's going on...

 

Uh oh, in case I don't return, here's a shot from my security cam out front...

 

AcademyVehicles.jpg

 

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Houston Baptist University has a PD station on campus and that's smaller than some high schools here.

 

UT has it's own police academy.

 

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If the rules apply to UH, they should apply to UT. When UH was exploring a campus on the north side of Houston, approval was stalled on the basis that it would encroach upon Sam Houston State. UH didn't throw a "hissy fit" and complied with legislative sentiment. But UT doesn't care about legislative sentiment because it doesn't need the legislature's money to buy the land. So where is the money coming from? Oh yeah, the PUF, that's where. A fund that enriches UT in the amount of almost a half a billion dollars a year, that UH does not receive. So that's playing by the rules?

 

You can be assured that UH will contest this vigorously. If it takes challenging the discriminatory manner in which UT and TAMU are benefited through the PUF payments that will happen too. Dr. Khator has her allies in the legislature and in the city. Don't think for a second she's going to let this go without a fight. 

 

It's pretty simple - the PUF was set up to benefit the University of Texas system. A&M gets a chunk because it was spun off from the UT system. UH has never been associated with the UT system, and yet it thinks it's entitled to those monies?

 

The only way it would make sense for UH to get PUF money would be to merge into the UT system, but I do not see anyone pushing for that. This is attempting to have your cake (administrative independence) and eat it too.

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the PUF was set up at a time when nobody could foresee the future. Most people didn't attend college and people of color certainly didn't. The State is very different now than it was then. It's time to change the way we fund higher education in this state or we'll continue to see an overall brain drain. 

 

It would also be in UT's best interest to have other highly desirable public institutions for people to attend. Overcrowding in Austin has been a huge problem.

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It's pretty simple - the PUF was set up to benefit the University of Texas system. A&M gets a chunk because it was spun off from the UT system. UH has never been associated with the UT system, and yet it thinks it's entitled to those monies?

 

The only way it would make sense for UH to get PUF money would be to merge into the UT system, but I do not see anyone pushing for that. This is attempting to have your cake (administrative independence) and eat it too.

 

The central point of my post is left unchallenged, because there is no plausible answer. Why is UH blocked from establishing a facility within 50 miles of Sam Houston State, but UT is permitted to establish a facility within 5 miles of UH? 

 

With respect to the PUF, you are entirely incorrect in your assertion that the PUF "was set up to benefit the University of Texas system." It was set up to assist in the funding of higher education. At the time it was formed the Universtity of Texas didn't even exist. The fund was first comtemplated in 1839, and UT was created in 1858. Since UT was the first public university in Texas it obviously became the focus of the fund. The UT "system" was only included pursuant to a constitutional amendment passed in 1984. Obviously, at any time an amendment could be offered to include UH and Texas Tech as recipients, couldn't it? I assume you urge such action since you feel like everything is so fairly divided.

 

It all comes down to what is the fairest thing for the taxpayers of the State, who so generously support the operations of all the public universities of Texas. UH is a tier one research facility. There is no compelling need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars when UH is only miles away. And there is no justification for imposing encroachment rules upon the UH and none upon the UT.

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the PUF was set up at a time when nobody could foresee the future. Most people didn't attend college and people of color certainly didn't. The State is very different now than it was then. It's time to change the way we fund higher education in this state or we'll continue to see an overall brain drain. 

 

It would also be in UT's best interest to have other highly desirable public institutions for people to attend. Overcrowding in Austin has been a huge problem.

stop-signs.png

^^^ who told you that "people of color" didn't attend institutions of higher learning (colleges / universities) during the era of the PUF???

we may not have been able to attend CERTAIN colleges due to open and blatant white racism...

but i can honestly assure you that "people of color" certainly attended colleges / universities....

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The central point of my post is left unchallenged, because there is no plausible answer. Why is UH blocked from establishing a facility within 50 miles of Sam Houston State, but UT is permitted to establish a facility within 5 miles of UH? 

 

With respect to the PUF, you are entirely incorrect in your assertion that the PUF "was set up to benefit the University of Texas system." It was set up to assist in the funding of higher education. At the time it was formed the Universtity of Texas didn't even exist. The fund was first comtemplated in 1839, and UT was created in 1858. Since UT was the first public university in Texas it obviously became the focus of the fund. The UT "system" was only included pursuant to a constitutional amendment passed in 1984. Obviously, at any time an amendment could be offered to include UH and Texas Tech as recipients, couldn't it? I assume you urge such action since you feel like everything is so fairly divided.

 

It all comes down to what is the fairest thing for the taxpayers of the State, who so generously support the operations of all the public universities of Texas. UH is a tier one research facility. There is no compelling need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars when UH is only miles away. And there is no justification for imposing encroachment rules upon the UH and none upon the UT.

 

To me, it's not an issue of fairness - the state of Texas is best served by having a world-class research university, and it is able to have one because of the funding the PUF provides.

 

The reason UH was blocked is because it serves a similar purpose to SHSU, just at a higher level. UT serves a much bigger purpose than both of those schools. Certainly, the state constitution could be changed to end this division, but I believe the state as a whole would suffer for not having a top-five endowed university in the country anymore.

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To me, it's not an issue of fairness - the state of Texas is best served by having a world-class research university, and it is able to have one because of the funding the PUF provides.

 

The reason UH was blocked is because it serves a similar purpose to SHSU, just at a higher level. UT serves a much bigger purpose than both of those schools. Certainly, the state constitution could be changed to end this division, but I believe the state as a whole would suffer for not having a top-five endowed university in the country anymore.

 

Well, I applaud your honesty "it's not an issue of fairness."

 

It's not an issue of fairness when it comes to the distribution of State funds? Presently there are over 100,000 students enrolled in the University of Houston system and Texas Tech. Apparently you are of the opinion that they, and their families, are inferior citizens not entitled to an equal sharing in the money the state can expend on higher education. Why don't we just close those schools and direct all the state's resources to the expansion of the UT system? Obviously, God made the UT Austin in his image.

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Regarding students enrolled at UofH and Texas Tech and their supposed inferior status...yes I can assure you that A&M students and Texas students do feel superior.  University education is a bit of a meritocracy, you have to actually apply for entry and everything.

 

I'm pretty sure there is no state in the country that intends for all of the Universities they fund to be equal to one another.

Edited by JJxvi

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Well, I applaud your honesty "it's not an issue of fairness."

 

It's not an issue of fairness when it comes to the distribution of State funds? Presently there are over 100,000 students enrolled in the University of Houston system and Texas Tech. Apparently you are of the opinion that they, and their families, are inferior citizens not entitled to an equal sharing in the money the state can expend on higher education. Why don't we just close those schools and direct all the state's resources to the expansion of the UT system? Obviously, God made the UT Austin in his image.

 

It's not an issue of institutional fairness, because it is an issue of what is best for the state as a whole. In my opinion, it is in the state's best interest to have a world-class flagship university that drives research, technology and economic development.

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It's not an issue of institutional fairness, because it is an issue of what is best for the state as a whole. In my opinion, it is in the state's best interest to have a world-class flagship university that drives research, technology and economic development.

 

The judicial system exists, in part, to dispense equity - fairness. When separate did not really mean equal, the courts stepped in and changed the education landscape.

 

As I have already said, and apparently you defer, Dr. Khator is not going to permit this to happen without a fight. Be careful what you ask for from the ivory towers, you might find yourself evicted from the castle and living amongst the poor. Oh, what a shame that would be for the privileged elite to have to experience life at the proletariat level.

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stop-signs.png

^^^ who told you that "people of color" didn't attend institutions of higher learning (colleges / universities) during the era of the PUF???

we may not have been able to attend CERTAIN colleges due to open and blatant white racism...

but i can honestly assure you that "people of color" certainly attended colleges / universities....

 

 

With respect to your reference to "open and blatant white racism," I assume you refer to the UT. See Sweatt v. Painter, where UT was judicially forced to integrate.

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The judicial system exists, in part, to dispense equity - fairness. When separate did not really mean equal, the courts stepped in and changed the education landscape.

 

As I have already said, and apparently you defer, Dr. Khator is not going to permit this to happen without a fight. Be careful what you ask for from the ivory towers, you might find yourself evicted from the castle and living amongst the poor. Oh, what a shame that would be for the privileged elite to have to experience life at the proletariat level.

 

Everyone in Texas has an equal chance to attend UT or A&M. Some have a more-than-equal chance owing to efforts to mitigate social disadvantages. Distribution of funding is seen primarily as a political question by most judicial authorities, unless it's a clear disparity to the disfavor of some suspect class, such as in the case of segregated schools.

 

I don't understand why there would be a reason to dispute the notion that the university's president is going to fight this development. I am disputing the wisdom of doing so.

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With respect to your reference to "open and blatant white racism," I assume you refer to the UT. See Sweatt v. Painter, where UT was judicially forced to integrate.

^^^ dead on... for this is exactly what i meant!  however, this disgusting / blatant racism did not stop "people of color" from attending other colleges / universities... right??

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^^^ dead on... for this is exactly what i meant!  however, this disgusting / blatant racism did not stop "people of color" from attending other colleges / universities... right??

 

Indeed not, though in the time era we're talking about (late 1800's) they had to attend different colleges from whites in Texas.  As it happens the PUF was established by the Texas Constitution of 1876.  Paul Quinn College (historically black) was established in 1872 and thus slightly predates the PUF.  Paul Quinn also predates UT (established 1883).

 

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Regarding students enrolled at UofH and Texas Tech and their supposed inferior status...yes I can assure you that A&M students and Texas students do feel superior.  University education is a bit of a meritocracy, you have to actually apply for entry and everything.

 

I'm pretty sure there is no state in the country that intends for all of the Universities they fund to be equal to one another.

 

You can't be too elite when the best selling beers at your stadium are Miller Light, Bud Light, and Coors Light.  Honorable mention for Lone Star.

 

http://www.chron.com/local/education/campus-chronicles/article/UT-made-half-a-million-off-Miller-Lites-this-6738757.php#photo-9210966

 

920x920.jpg

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UT was my safety school, and I was nowhere near the top 10% of my class.  

 

Admittedly, that was some time ago.

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UT was my safety school, and I was nowhere near the top 10% of my class.  

 

Admittedly, that was some time ago.

 

I was UT bound until Baylor coughed up a full-tuition scholarship.  This was way before the 10% rule but I was out of state at the time anyway.

 

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It's not an issue of institutional fairness, because it is an issue of what is best for the state as a whole. In my opinion, it is in the state's best interest to have a world-class flagship university that drives research, technology and economic development.

 

you should finish the sentence:

 

... to the detriment of other universities in the state.

 

I mean, because that's what is going to happen should they build in Houston. Give UT all the money, that's fine, UH does very well on their own, but as UH is such a major commuter school, to let UT build a campus anywhere in Houston would be to the severe detriment of UH.

 

Either way though, UH does excel in one area that UT and A&M will find won't be so easy to match. UH has the best campus coffee shop :)

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You can't be too elite when the best selling beers at your stadium are Miller Light, Bud Light, and Coors Light.  Honorable mention for Lone Star.

 

 

 

Lone Star is a damn fine beer, if you lump it into the same category as that other swill, we gonna have words.

 

But seriously... of regular American beers (not craft beers), Lone Star and Coors (the banquet beer, not light) are really very refreshing beers to drink in the spring/summer/fall months. The rest of that crap is crap.

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Lone Star is a damn fine beer, if you lump it into the same category as that other swill, we gonna have words.

 

But seriously... of regular American beers (not craft beers), Lone Star and Coors (the banquet beer, not light) are really very refreshing beers to drink in the spring/summer/fall months. The rest of that crap is crap.

 

I must respectfully disagree, Shiner should be the National Beer of Texas.  Lone Star should be exported to places where people put ice in their beer glasses.

 

Wouldn't hurt to have an import ban on Coors as well, but I guess UT alums must have something to drink.

 

I should also note that UH does have the best coffee shop by far, but I don't recall ever seeing Lone Star sold there.  Perhaps that's part of why it's the best (in addition to the Katz's coffee).

 

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you should finish the sentence:

 

... to the detriment of other universities in the state.

 

I mean, because that's what is going to happen should they build in Houston. Give UT all the money, that's fine, UH does very well on their own, but as UH is such a major commuter school, to let UT build a campus anywhere in Houston would be to the severe detriment of UH.

 

Either way though, UH does excel in one area that UT and A&M will find won't be so easy to match. UH has the best campus coffee shop :)

 

It's not to anyone's detriment, and it's only people who think these universities are in competition with each other who think so. Leave the competition on the football field.

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I must respectfully disagree, Shiner should be the National Beer of Texas.  Lone Star should be exported to places where people put ice in their beer glasses.

 

Wouldn't hurt to have an import ban on Coors as well, but I guess UT alums must have something to drink.

 

I should also note that UH does have the best coffee shop by far, but I don't recall ever seeing Lone Star sold there.  Perhaps that's part of why it's the best (in addition to the Katz's coffee).

 

 

I don't think you're disagreeing with me, since Shiner isn't a regular American beer, even though it's owned by a regular American beer company these days. 

 

Shiner has really amazing offerings, and I put Shiner Premium on a level with quality stuff that comes from Germany.

 

And we do offer Lone Star, it's just hidden in the bottom of the cooler :)

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$670,000 an acre and they're trying to sell it as a great value? Also, the money being spent on this is coming from the PUF? This smells worse than originally thought. Who is this mystery "donor" who will be making bank right when oil is tanking and commercial real estate is faltering?

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KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggest city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

Edited by urbanize713
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KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

 

"Research campus?" 

Every rendering has shown athletic fields and sports facilities. Is that research? 

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KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

Yeah, nobody question what's going on here. What is this, America?

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KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

and at the end, money prevails for sure, but wisdom isn't in the picture.

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"astound people with our boldness."

^^^ this is the way that we do things at TEXAS...

 

 

 

All you need to do to make this quote more representative of reality is replace "boldness" with "arrogance".

 

Using PUF money, to which UH doesn't have access, to buy land in Houston under the guise of a "research hub" without the knowledge, much less approval, of the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, only to admit that this "research hub" will offer undergraduate and graduate courses (which sounds a lot more like a university than a "research hub"-- whatever that term is supposed to mean) sounds about par for the course for "TEXAS".

 

Never mind the fact that the PUF can in no way fund the construction of buildings/labs, the hiring of faculty/staff/researchers, nor the ongoing operations of a 300 acre university, which means that "TEXAS" will be going to the State for new, ongoing funding for this redundant, ego-inflating project of theirs. Where does that money come from?

 

Yeah... it's astounding alright.

Edited by kyle
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