University Debates: Sports, Fundings, And Developments

[Timoric]

-

Edited July 10, 2019 by Timoric

[houstontexasjack]

Remember Paul Chu?

 

He's still at TcSUH over at U of H.  He did a stint as president at Hong Kong University but is now back at UH full time.  

 

UH has upped its game in trying to get better faculty.  A very large sum of money was spent to lure Jan-Ake Gustaffson from Sweden a few years ago with what I suspect was the hope that he could be the first professor to win the Nobel Prize while at UH for his work on the estrogen receptors.

 

For most research faculty, the choice of school comes down to dollars spent for research grants to build groups.  A satellite campus of UT is a threat to UH only to the extent it can promise better start-up packages for research groups.  

[bobruss]

I do have a solution.

Let U. of H. in the Big 12.

If U.T. wants to move into our community then I want them to fight for U. of H. getting into the Big `12.

That seems like a more than fair offer.

We have come a long way and I think we can compete in our areas of expertise. Now that we are being recognized as a Tier One

research institute we are winning more federal grants.

I think we can compete with any one on the football field.

[urbanize713]

I think this is great and the UH crowd screaming foul are thinking very small. I might also add entitled. This city does not belong to any one institution.That would be like Boston/Cambridge saying, " no, we have too many world class institutions, no more,"

 

As with anything competition breeds better results. I not only welcome this but hope other universities take note of our great city and decide they need a presence here.

[Twinsanity02]

Maybe we will get lucky and the University of Kansas at Lawrence will open an institute here. Bring some class. Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

[jmitch94]

I think this is great and the UH crowd screaming foul are thinking very small. I might also add entitled. This city does not belong to any one institution.That would be like Boston/Cambridge saying, " no, we have too many world class institutions, no more,"

 

As with anything competition breeds better results. I not only welcome this but hope other universities take note of our great city and decide they need a presence here.

 

It's hard to be competitive with UT when they have had millions upon millions of extra income from the 

Permanent University Fund. UH can never compete with UT and A&M if we never get a cut from that enormous pie. 

[Sparrow]

I do have a solution.

Let U. of H. in the Big 12.

If U.T. wants to move into our community then I want them to fight for U. of H. getting into the Big `12.

That seems like a more than fair offer.

We have come a long way and I think we can compete in our areas of expertise. Now that we are being recognized as a Tier One

research institute we are winning more federal grants.

I think we can compete with any one on the football field.

 

If UT's gonna strike a deal to establish a research and collaboration development ("not" a full university...  ​), UH should get additional state funding as well as their on-campus teaching hospital. Forget about fighting for the athletics department on this one--fight for what really matters.

 

That being said, this campus is a rather dirty move by UT--and I went there myself. The Tribune needs to get its facts straight--not only does Houston have one private Tier One university, but it also has one public Tier One university--UH. It's not just a "growing research school". My wife is a UH alumni, and I support her side of things 100% on this one. If this happens, there must be some sort of quid pro quo to go along with it.

 

 

With that being said, a bump in state funding for UH to go along with the med school, and what the hell, let's throw the Big XII in there too, and now this endeavor by the UT Board of Regents seems to be a mighty fine idea for the City of Houston that I believe everyone can then fully support.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Sparrow

[bobruss]

I wasn't serious about the Big 12. It would be nice to be in a power 5 conference, but the funding is what worries me.

I know Houston doesn't belong to U. of H.

I just think it will be hurt by this. I think in the long run it will be great for the city of Houston, but I have my

concerns about faculty and research grants for U. of H. We have very limited funds to protect our faculty and Texas has

unlimited funds. Its kind of David and Goliath.

[jmitch94]

I wasn't serious about the Big 12. It would be nice to be in a power 5 conference, but the funding is what worries me.

I know Houston doesn't belong to U. of H.

I just think it will be hurt by this. I think in the long run it will be great for the city of Houston, but I have my

concerns about faculty and research grants for U. of H. We have very limited funds to protect our faculty and Texas has

unlimited funds. Its kind of David and Goliath.

 

Exactly what I was saying about the Permanent University Fund. 

[strickn]

Bookmarking this from the UT Houston thread today:

 

I know we are long past the era when universities were in it for the education and betterment of society but [do they] not make enough money as it is?  I just find it disconcerting that all, not just UT, are in education solely for the money. 

 

 

 

​Thoughts?  And I know it's all too often considered heresy to question the idea that competition makes everything better, but this thread is a safe space to ask how to help nurture and competition play nicely together.

Edited November 8, 2015 by strickn

[Ross]

In Texas, the situation is made worse by the lack of funding from the State, which mans the universities have to chase dollars.

[strickn]

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/06/peter-higgs-boson-academic-system

 

Higgs, the British physicist who theorized the Higgs boson, doubts that enough peace and quiet is available in present academic culture to achieve a similar breakthrough before being fired...

[BigFootsSocks]

Love that guy, and his contributions to science are unparalleled, but I gotta disagree with that line of thinking.

[BigFootsSocks]

A&M has their Galveston satellite (which is the only non-CStat A&N campus that gets an official Aggie ring, I think) and Cstat isn't that far away with the Tomball Tollway expected to open up to Navasota within the next 5-10 years.

[jmitch94]

If we got an Aggie campus in Houston I would have to leave this city. 

[jt16]

The Houston A&M club is the largest alumni club in the country. They aren't focused on Houston. They're working to build their presence in Dallas with the new law school. I'd bet you would see an A&M Dallas before you saw an A&M HOUSTON campus.

[bobruss]

This is a very touchy subject for University of Houston Alum, as evidenced by the board of regents voting to condemn this

tactic by UT.

There is a lot of bad blood between the two schools and for many years University of Houston struggled to just stay afloat.

It didn't help to hear and read the slur commonly used by UT and A&M backers "Cougar High" which was quoted many times in print

in the 50's and sixties and up into the 70's until we finally were accepted into the SWC. Of course everyone knows we went

on to win the conference championship that first year and went on to win it several more times.

This finally quieted down the Cougar High talk.

Now were being recognized for the strides we've made in research and academics.

WE are no longer a commuter school as U. of H. has as many dorms on campus as any other school in Texas.

For years we have worked hard and received very little help from the legislature in receiving funds, support, or help.

On the other side of the coin you have The University and its little brother A&M, who split the Permian Basin fund,

which is a very very big pot. Other state schools in Texas have asked begged and pleaded with the legislature to split up that

money and spread the wealth since both of those Universities have more money than they know what to do with.

They also still get state money besides the Fund, and get upset if one of the other Texas schools ask for more.

They won't budge.

So now they want to come to Houston to try and squeeze U of H again and throw a lot of state money that they have been gifted to

build a (research/University) less than five miles from Rice and U. of H. I laugh because in the renderings Ive seen it looks

like a full blown UT with dorms fields and many more buildings than the TMC 3 research center proposed for the whole Med center.

Rice also is a private school with almost as much money as they have and they don't have anything to worry about.

It might be a good thing for the city but my cougar blood is boiling.

[Houston?]

I hate that y'all forget about TSU.

[bobruss]

Sorry your right. My apologies.

It's interesting now that you mention it though.

If it hadn't been for the fact that UT wouldn't enroll a black man Mr Sweatt, I believe back in 1947, to its law school, there wouldn't

Be a TSU.

the Texas legislature founded Texas Southern Law School after that.

[Houston19514]

Not that it is happening or that there are any plans for it to happen, but I would love to see a full-fledged UT-Houston, plus a full-fledged Texas A&M-Houston, plus a continuing advancement of UH.  We hare fast becoming the next global city and it's time we started acting like it in all ways, including a wide variety of premier advanced educational opportunities.

 

For comparison, here is a (probably incomplete) listing of public universities in some of our peer metro areas:

 

Chicago

Chicago State University

University of Illinois @ Chicago

Indiana University Northwest

Northeastern Illinois University

Purdue University Calumet

University of Wisconsin Parkside

 

D-FW

Texas A&M University-Commerce

University of North Texas

University of North Texas @ Dallas

University of Texas @ Arlington

University of Texas @ Dallas

Weatherford College

 

Houston

University of Houston

University of Houston-Clear Lake

University of Houston-Downtown

Texas Southern University

 

[BigFootsSocks]

I kinda look at it this way; let's use sports as analogy. Specifically, Houston sports; The Rockets were that lovable bad team before we signed our big stars (Dwight and Harden), and The Astros were the laughing stock of the league for years. But this year we've seen a resurgence of "haters" talking trash about the Astros (Correa winning ROTY) and the Rockets ("Harden can only draw fouls, what a flop") because now we're legitimate forces.

People pay attention to these teams because they're good, and it's the same for UH. UT wouldn't spend this amount of money to develop a campus if they didn't think Houston was a viable and budding city for higher education. UH's resurgence only confirms that.

[Montrose1100]

Not that it is happening or that there are any plans for it to happen, but I would love to see a full-fledged UT-Houston, plus a full-fledged Texas A&M-Houston, plus a continuing advancement of UH.  We hare fast becoming the next global city and it's time we started acting like it in all ways, including a wide variety of premier advanced educational opportunities.

 

For comparison, here is a (probably incomplete) listing of public universities in some of our peer metro areas:

 

Chicago

Chicago State University

University of Illinois @ Chicago

Indiana University Northwest

Northeastern Illinois University

Purdue University Calumet

University of Wisconsin Parkside

 

D-FW

Texas A&M University-Commerce

University of North Texas

University of North Texas @ Dallas

University of Texas @ Arlington

University of Texas @ Dallas

Weatherford College

 

Houston

University of Houston

University of Houston-Clear Lake

University of Houston-Downtown

Texas Southern University

If you're going to include A&M Commerce, you should include all of our medical schools, the Business MBA in the Woodlands, and the Aggies in Galveston. I'm sure that would also give Chicago more as well.

[monarch]

 

^^^ ok, all of you guys already know that i love all of you...

however, you have got to be kidding me.... right?

everyone knows... are should know by now, that i bleed burnt orange!  i am a TEXAS LONGHORN through and through.  and yet, EVERY time that i see a positive enhancement (no matter what it is) regarding the university of houston.... i am beaming!

UH, TSU, and our illustrious RICE U, have all come along way throughout these multitudes of generations and decades.  as a proud houstonian, i am more than proud and honored to stand by each and everyone of these great universities.

however, they are not TEXAS!

neither of these wonderful universities harbor the power, global prestige, money... uber wealth, alumni... reaching all over the globe, world leaders... etc...

you name it, TEXAS has it!

nonetheless, please remember HAIF, that the university of texas.. is the premier institution of higher learning within this great state.

and whatever we choose to do within this great state of ours... can only enhance this great state of ours.  no matter what the circumstances.

therefore, please do not allow for our might / muscle to turn you green with envy.  just always remember our great and famous cliche...

we're TEXAS, what we do here changes the world.... 

 

[Montrose1100]

 

 

 

 

neither of these wonderful universities harbor the power, global prestige, money... uber wealth, alumni... reaching all over the globe, world leaders... etc...

you name it, TEXAS has it!

 

Rice is way more prestigious than Texas could ever DREAM of. Take that in your ROD coffee and drink it! 

[H-Town Man]

Not that it is happening or that there are any plans for it to happen, but I would love to see a full-fledged UT-Houston, plus a full-fledged Texas A&M-Houston, plus a continuing advancement of UH.  We hare fast becoming the next global city and it's time we started acting like it in all ways, including a wide variety of premier advanced educational opportunities.

 

For comparison, here is a (probably incomplete) listing of public universities in some of our peer metro areas:

 

 

Not to trounce on your post, but this calls for a little perspective:

 

Chicago

Chicago State University

University of Illinois @ Chicago - The only full-fledged public university in Chicago, and not even the flagship of its system. I've never even heard of most of these others, and I went to college in Chicago (at a private school).

Indiana University Northwest

Northeastern Illinois University

Purdue University Calumet

University of Wisconsin Parkside

 

D-FW

Texas A&M University-Commerce - Not really in Dallas. If you count this, you should count Prairie View A&M for Houston, its equivalent.

University of North Texas - Basically the equivalent of Sam Houston State for Houston, a former teachers' college.

University of North Texas @ Dallas - The satellite of a teachers' college. I didn't even know this place existed.

University of Texas @ Arlington - An old Texas A&M satellite sold at a pittance to UT for lack of interest.

University of Texas @ Dallas - A former TI research campus given to UT so that some of TI's research could be publicly funded. Closest thing Dallas has to a full-fledged public university, but is behind UH in this regard.

Weatherford College

 

Houston

University of Houston

University of Houston-Clear Lake

University of Houston-Downtown

Texas Southern University

Sam Houston State University

Prairie View A&M

University of Houston-Victoria (arguably)

 

All that being said, when you consider that the non-flagship UT and A&M schools are drawing from the same state endowments as UH, it is hard to justify wanting them to have campuses in Houston to compete with UH with their superior brand recognition advantage.  You just spread out the same money thinner, and UH needs all the help it can get. UH is what it is because UT and A&M did not build campuses in Houston.

 

[Houston19514]

If you're going to include A&M Commerce, you should include all of our medical schools, the Business MBA in the Woodlands, and the Aggies in Galveston. I'm sure that would also give Chicago more as well.

 

Nope.  Texas A&M - Commerce is a four-year degree-granting university, as are all the other institutions I listed, H-town Man's ignorance of their existence notwithstanding.  ;-)

 

 

Edited November 20, 2015 by Houston19514

[H-Town Man]

Rice is way more prestigious than Texas could ever DREAM of. Take that in your ROD coffee and drink it! 

 

Rice is only more prestigious at the undergraduate level. In terms of research power and the sigificance of who teaches there and what they publish, UT is known internationally, Rice isn't. I don't get any pleasure saying this, since I have always liked A&M over UT.

[Houston19514]

Not to trounce on your post, but this calls for a little perspective:

 

Chicago

Chicago State University

University of Illinois @ Chicago - The only full-fledged public university in Chicago, and not even the flagship of its system. I've never even heard of most of these others, and I went to college in Chicago (at a private school).

Indiana University Northwest

Northeastern Illinois University

Purdue University Calumet

University of Wisconsin Parkside

 

D-FW

Texas A&M University-Commerce - Not really in Dallas. If you count this, you should count Prairie View A&M for Houston, its equivalent.

University of North Texas - Basically the equivalent of Sam Houston State for Houston, a former teachers' college.

University of North Texas @ Dallas - The satellite of a teachers' college. I didn't even know this place existed.

University of Texas @ Arlington - An old Texas A&M satellite sold at a pittance to UT for lack of interest.

University of Texas @ Dallas - A former TI research campus given to UT so that some of TI's research could be publicly funded. Closest thing Dallas has to a full-fledged public university, but is behind UH in this regard.

Weatherford College

Southeastern Oklahoma State University

 

Houston

University of Houston  Cougar High

University of Houston-Clear Lake  Satellite of Cougar High (and many people have never heard of it)

University of Houston-Downtown  Satellite of Cougar High

Texas Southern University  Exists because UT (and probably UH) was/were racist

Sam Houston State University  Teachers college

Prairie View A&M  Exists because A&M was racist

University of Houston-Victoria (arguably)

 

All that being said, when you consider that the non-flagship UT and A&M schools are drawing from the same state endowments as UH, it is hard to justify wanting them to have campuses in Houston to compete with UH with their superior brand recognition advantage.  You just spread out the same money thinner, and UH needs all the help it can get. UH is what it is because UT and A&M did not build campuses in Houston.

 

Several thoughts:

 

1)  Your ignorance of the existence of some of these institutions of higher learning does not mean they don't exist.

2)  I'm not sure what you think constitutes a full-fledged public university, but it is pretty apparent that you have a unique definition. And your [mis]defining institutions off the list does not mean they don't exist.

3)  You are correct.  I should have included Prairie View A&M. 

4)  If we are including Sam Houston State in Houston's list, then we also have to add Southeastern Oklahoma State University (in Durant, OK) to the D-FW list.

5)  No to University of Houston-Victoria.  It is neither in our metropolitan area nor our combined area.

6) Your dismissals of the institutions in DFW are cute, but unavailing.  One could just as easily write snarky dismissals about the background of the University of Houston and the other public institutions in Houston.  See how easy it is above.

7) All that being said, why should we not aspire to have multiple public universities from a variety of systems in our global metropolis? 

Edited November 20, 2015 by Houston19514

[H-Town Man]

Several thoughts:

 

1)  Your ignorance of the existence of some of these institutions of higher learning does not mean they don't exist.

2)  I'm not sure what you think constitutes a full-fledged public university, but it is pretty apparent that you have a unique definition. And your [mis]defining institutions off the list does not mean they don't exist.

3)  You are correct.  I should have included Prairie View A&M. 

4)  If we are including Sam Houston State in Houston's list, then we also have to add Southeastern Oklahoma State University (in Durant, OK) to the D-FW list.

5)  No to University of Houston-Victoria.  It is neither in our metropolitan area nor our combined area.

6) Your dismissals of the institutions in DFW are cute, but unavailing.  One could just as easily write snarky dismissals about the background of the University of Houston and the other public institutions in Houston.

7) All that being said, why should we not aspire to have multiple public universities from a variety of systems in our global metropolis? 

 

I think you're replying with a bit more competitive spirit than I did... A full-fledged public university is a school with a broad range of degree programs and resources. Anyone looking at your list of Chicago schools who is familiar with the city sees UIC as an immediate outlier. The others are very minor schools.

 

I didn't dismiss the DFW schools, just tried to add some more perspective than one can get by looking at a bare list of colleges. None of the public schools in Dallas is on the same level as UH, and that means more than just which city has a larger list of public schools.

 

No, Southeastern OSU in Durant is not comparable to Sam Houston State, since hardly anyone in Dallas would go there and pay out-of-state tuition, whereas SHSU has historically been a major if not THE major teachers' college for the Houston area. You actually have to think about these schools, not just look at distances on a map.

 

To your last question, I addressed this in my initial post. If all these public schools are competing for the same funds, it would be better to build up one than have multiple. Having a school with the resources to lure out-of-state faculty and grad students and do research projects of national significance is better for the city than having multiple weaker schools. How many major public universities does New York City have? It's pretty much CUNY and not much else. And that's all they need.

 

Edited November 20, 2015 by H-Town Man

[urbanize713]

I think two points are clear.

 

1. This is great for the city of Houston. It is just another thing it can tout as a reason for business and innovation here. As many on this board have said, a world class city has multiple institutions both in number and quality.

2. It could have a negative effect on UH but it is all speculation. Once again look at all these other city examples where there are several institutions.

 

In my opinion what this is really about is the PUF  (permamenent university fund) or in other words money. Lets looks at actual numbers/facts. One key note being that when the legislature gave these lands to the UT system they thought they were worthless. I bet there are some that still regret that decision.

 

-As it stands now the annual funds available from the PUF are split two ways 2/3 to the UT system and 1/3 to the Texas A&M system. Just so that everyone understands those are the SYSTEMS not UT Austin or A&M College Station. 

-Out of of the 2/3 the UT System receives ~30 % goes to UT Austin the remainder goes to the other UT schools; UTEP, UTSA, UTA, UT Dallas, etc.

-The 30% UT does receive comproises 8%, thats right 8% of UT Austin's annual budget.

-The legislature off course also sends money which is about 12% of UT Austin's annual budget

-All in the state only provides 1/5 of UT Austin's budget. The remainder comes from tuition, fundsraising, and other sources.

-The state is always looking to cut funding to UT, not add.

 

Much like in this case UT Austin is alway accused of being the grand and only  benefactor of the PUF but that is simply not the case. When you look at the facts the PUF helps UT Austin along with 15+ other schools in the UT and A&M systems. Much like UH has built it self up in recent years, UT Austin has built itself up but simply has been at it much much longer and had the advanatge of being first. The bad blood many reference is between UT Austin and UH but one of the main points that alumni keep bringing up is the PUF, which is not just UT Austin.

 

So as I said at the beginning this is about about crying wolf and money.