Citizens National Bank At 402 Main St.

[sevfiv]

It's those darn thugs.

yeah - that wasn't a random act

[RedScare]

yeah - that wasn't a random act

ToC Bar, men in a Hummer, altercation.....hmm, I wonder what the altercation may have been about?

[PureAuteur]

It probably wasn't bad enough that killing a human being was the only option for solving it, which is where the problem lies. Houston just has tons of these kinds of people everywhere. People who either are or just appear to be dangerous and may or may not be carrying a gun at any moment. If it wasn't for this sub-culture, we would already have a thriving nightlife downtown with partying and lots of residential activity. There was a time in Houston when altercations led to fist fights or just shouting arguments followed by cooling off or getting thrown out of a bar. Now people literally fear altercations because they might wind up dead a few seconds later.

This is also why Houston just isn't a hip place. You go downtown late at night, and you're not going to see very many people with class or even the "down on their luck" type people who just roam around peacefully and don't harm anyone. I could deal with that stuff, but the gun sub-culture is such a nuisance and keeping downtown investors from realizing the full potential of that area.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I wanna see a 24-hour Starbucks on the Main Street strip. 2-story, too...

[C2H]

Maybe this is why downtown's night life is slowing down.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/10961238/detail.html

Man, that's just terrible!

Edited February 8, 2007 by C2H

[MidtownCoog]

Nothing good ever happens at 2:40 a.m.

PRINT IT

[Houston19514]

I just hope that as the bars go away, they are replaced by what could be called "watering holes" that the locals can go to after work or from their downtown lofts like they do in Chicago.

Ditto! In fact, after reading this whole thread, I think the title should be changed from "Downtown's new problem" to "Downtown's new opportunity." Maybe we should find a way to encourage more of the big clubs to move. I could never quite see how they thought they could continue to have the massive crowds on Main Street, even just for special events, when it stops the rail service. You can't be shutting down the central spine of your rail system every time you have a big party.

[TxDave]

I think I missed some of the point a little when I made my previous post.

I completely agree that for Downtown to be successful long term as a residential neighborhood, it will need a mix of incomes to remain sustainable.

The trendiness of high-end lofts and condos will be susceptible to just that: "trendiness". When the next popular residential fad comes to town, many of those people will follow and move on (as history has shown).

But if a true mixed-income neighborhood is in place downtown, it will be able to weather such changes in trends, and remain stable.

[Drewdog]

This could have been predicted 4 years ago. This is the twilight of the Downtown "scene". Faster than you can say Richmond Strip and Shepherd Plaza, the next wave of 21-25 year olds will have found a new home in Houston. Right now savvy club owners are trying to figure out where this will be so they can stake their claim, but it will not be Main Street.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Richmond Strip turned ghetto, Sheperd Plaza turned ghetto, and now its downtown. Midtown is the new hotspot, so you know it wont be long before it becomes ghetto as well.

Actually the only area that I think has sustained its presence of not turning ghetto are the bars around Rice Village.

[ToolMan]

Actually the only area that I think has sustained its presence of not turning ghetto are the bars around Rice Village.

That's because they never sold out and catered to those kinds of people. Just bars focused towards college students and profesionals - no cover charges, ect...

I you like that seen you will go, and if you want something else, you will go elsewhere. Simple enoughm

[WesternGulf]

That is indeed tragic but you cannot help but to think "preventable". Not that this situation in the news has anything to do with it but in general I think some people have mental issues when they cannot control their public confrontations and amplify their conflict by not being able to shut up. That's just suicide nowadays. Most of the time, it's a power struggle because some one is afraid to look like they lost the argument. In the end they both look like assholes. Although I am sure there are some extreme cases where people are shot for actually being the bigger person.

[Jonah]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Richmond Strip turned ghetto, Sheperd Plaza turned ghetto, and now its downtown. Midtown is the new hotspot, so you know it wont be long before it becomes ghetto as well.

Actually the only area that I think has sustained its presence of not turning ghetto are the bars around Rice Village.

This is so true, and I think true for pretty much every city. Even in LA, the Sunset Strip isn't the fabulous image most people have in there heads. If you live in LA you know that the Sunset Strip has been ghetto for quite awhile. Many of these clubs in Hollywood that were popular a year ago with the A-listers are now ghetto attracting the wanna-be gangster crowd. The clubs that have remained succesful are the ones that usually don't charge a cover and cater to the have a beer and strike up a conversation crowd.

[musicman]

the throatslashing at the metro rail stop yesterday sure doesn't help either.

Edited February 13, 2007 by musicman

[pwright1]

On my last visit to Houston I was actually amazed at the number of dance clubs downtown. A lot imo. My question: Do all those dance clubs really make for a great downtown? I noticed during the day a lot of those same clubs were closed. I guess they only open at night. Some of the best downtowns I've been to lately across the america, Vancouver, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Chicago don't have so many of those clubs. They have more bars, jazz clubs or nice restaurants. We ended up at Bossa which to us was just the kind of place we were looking for. We also enjoyed Sambuca for the late night jazz.

[musicman]

On my last visit to Houston I was actually amazed at the number of dance clubs downtown. A lot imo. My question: Do all those dance clubs really make for a great downtown? I noticed during the day a lot of those same clubs were closed. I guess they only open at night. Some of the best downtowns I've been to lately across the america, Vancouver, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Chicago don't have so many of those clubs. They have more bars, jazz clubs or nice restaurants. We ended up at Bossa which to us was just the kind of place we were looking for. We also enjoyed Sambuca for the late night jazz.

i don't think those clubs do anything to make downtown a place to visit because they are only open during the evening. opening their bars during the afternoon might do somthing to attract biz workers.

[ToolMan]

musicman and pwright1 are correct.

[houstonfella]

Downtown Houston Clubs - feel free to open at 7 a.m. and stay until the out-dated Texas alcohol laws close you down. I have always felt that New Orleans was the only city in the USA that got it right re: its bars and clubs.

[GovernorAggie]

Nice article in Chron about this.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4562230.html

Looks like I will make a point to "trade" (as my grandmother says) at Mia Bella's and help the brotha out since he's willing to fight for Downtown. And I look forward to Coco's coming. Maybe that's what'll replace MBar (since it's across from Mia Bella) instead of a Walgreens. Or maybe it'll go into the Byrd Lofts (although I kinda wouldn't mind something like Denny's or something in there).

[musicman]

Nice article in Chron about this.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4562230.html

Looks like I will make a point to "trade" (as my grandmother says) at Mia Bella's and help the brotha out since he's willing to fight for Downtown. And I look forward to Coco's coming. Maybe that's what'll replace MBar (since it's across from Mia Bella) instead of a Walgreens. Or maybe it'll go into the Byrd Lofts (although I kinda wouldn't mind something like Denny's or something in there).

you can help the brotha but use cash. They've been padding peoples' credit cards quite a bit recently according to 3 frequent customers i know.

[Subdude]

From the Chroncle article:

Some in the downtown business community think that even the 2004 Super Bowl, which brought throngs to Main Street, may have been a curse in disguise.

It changed the downtown mind-set, they believe, planting the misconceived idea that the Historic District could become another Bourbon Street if only more nightclubs would move in.

More did come in, and now some district leaders say that Main Street has lost its way.

Instead of becoming a trendy cluster of boutiques, grocery stores, restaurants and bars patronized by urban professionals living in nearby lofts, Main Street draws a younger crowd more interested in late-night barhopping.

In recent weeks, several nightclubs have shut down, and downtown leaders see the closings as a chance for the Historic District to reclaim its original vision.

"It's kind of like there's a clean slate and a real chance for a turnaround," said Larry Plotsky, a retail-restaurant broker.

It is good that the closing of clubs is recognized as an opportunity for downtown, but you have to wonder if they will be able to capitalize on the opportunity. It will take more to get some sustainable redevelopment downtown that just "reclaiming the original vision" - they need to act on the vision. Paying subsidies to retailers seemed like a good idea, but I'm not sure it has had that much of an impact.

[ricco67]

From the Chroncle article:

It is good that the closing of clubs is recognized as an opportunity for downtown, but you have to wonder if they will be able to capitalize on the opportunity. It will take more to get some sustainable redevelopment downtown that just "reclaiming the original vision" - they need to act on the vision. Paying subsidies to retailers seemed like a good idea, but I'm not sure it has had that much of an impact.

Well, it's my hope that a good combination of bars (neighborhood/Sports) and a few good restaurants that range from high end, to something a bit more modest should suit the range of those that live and work in the area.

[Subdude]

You know, it is somewhat disingenuous for the Bob Eurys etc to suddenly decide that having so many clubs downtown isn't such a great boost for downtown revitalization now that some clubs are starting to close. To give HAIF credit, there are people on this board who have been saying that for years.

[liammclaren]

The nightlife downtown started sliding about 3-4 years ago, and has sucked ever since. Too bad, it was good while it lasted--

[what]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Richmond Strip turned ghetto, Sheperd Plaza turned ghetto, and now its downtown. Midtown is the new hotspot, so you know it wont be long before it becomes ghetto as well.

Actually the only area that I think has sustained its presence of not turning ghetto are the bars around Rice Village.

Actually think the name of this thread should be changed to the future of downtown nightlife. Obviously, Downtown is soon to be "Once Again" the new and this time lasting hotspot. Midtown as you might know was a ghetto and has come a long way as downtowns neighborhood. It is going to settle back into the shadow of downtown, as it should and sophisticated operators will select downtown for real business.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Actually think the name of this thread should be changed to the future of downtown nightlife. Obviously, Downtown is soon to be "Once Again" the new and this time lasting hotspot. Midtown as you might know was a ghetto and has come a long way as downtowns neighborhood. It is going to settle back into the shadow of downtown, as it should and sophisticated operators will select downtown for real business.

I predict an Uptown nightlife resurgance in the next 5-10 years. I could see that area push for more upscale nightlife activity that's better than their 24-hour Starbucks. If that area's nightlife has been declared dead already, they may soon find it an opportunity to start from scratch (like upscale urban-developed clubs in the heart of the Galleria area this time).

Midtown is a toss-up. It will either become one of the clubbing meccas of the state, or will just die out. Really depends on if the new developments keep coming or not.

Downtown is by far the most stable area in Houston in terms of nightlife. There's so much potential there because of Pavillions and the park coming. What that area needs is 24-hour living, and hopefully Pavillions will be one of the steps to getting that. A 24-hour flagship grocery store Downtown would complete that for residents there (ideally along the park). Once you have the constant pedestrian traffic, and it coincides with the new clubs, restaurants, and bars from Main to Hiltons, Downtown will breakout I think.

[what]

So the old M-Bar was leased to a high end art gallery...

[RedScare]

THAT will bring the crowds back to Main Street.

Seriously, a little variety will be good for the area. But, for those that judge the success of an area by the size of the drunken hordes, a la 6th Street, they may see this as a step backward.

[bach]

So the old M-Bar was leased to a high end art gallery...

The M Bar location has not been leased to an art gallery or anyone else.

But what about the idea of bringing in a couple of art galleries to fill space until more/strong/established businesses such as restaurants come in? At least filling space with activity?

[what]

So the old M-Bar was leased to a high end art gallery...

The M Bar location has not been leased to an art gallery or anyone else.

But what about the idea of bringing in a couple of art galleries to fill space until more/strong/established businesses such as restaurants come in? At least filling space with activity?

well...i believe this was per the broker of the building...

you must not get down there much, because there are several restaurants already located in that area.

Edited March 8, 2007 by what

[what]

I predict an Uptown nightlife resurgance in the next 5-10 years. I could see that area push for more upscale nightlife activity that's better than their 24-hour Starbucks. If that area's nightlife has been declared dead already, they may soon find it an opportunity to start from scratch (like upscale urban-developed clubs in the heart of the Galleria area this time).

Midtown is a toss-up. It will either become one of the clubbing meccas of the state, or will just die out. Really depends on if the new developments keep coming or not.

Downtown is by far the most stable area in Houston in terms of nightlife. There's so much potential there because of Pavillions and the park coming. What that area needs is 24-hour living, and hopefully Pavillions will be one of the steps to getting that. A 24-hour flagship grocery store Downtown would complete that for residents there (ideally along the park). Once you have the constant pedestrian traffic, and it coincides with the new clubs, restaurants, and bars from Main to Hiltons, Downtown will breakout I think.

I agree with you.