METRORail University Line

[ricco67]

So does Metro now own the WIndsor Plaza as well - I don't think so - and I doubt the owners want the added liability/inconvenience of cars parked in their lot that aren't customers. Seems like last year when they had the circus over behind the Windsor Plaza the circus patrons were getting towed for parking in the Windsor lot, but were allowed to park @ BestBuy.

Regarding the bus incident this is the first that I have heard of it, seems like something that egregious would have made it onto the news. I would also agree that if it was done to block the rail it probably wasn't a very smart idea. Does anyone have any actual facts on this or is it hearsay and inuendo?

I honestly don't know if an arborist has been hired or an assessment has been done. The question was rhetorical. My neighbors that are heading up the anti railroading of Richmond effort are certainly smart enough to figure that out. I would be surprised if an arborist hasn't been consulted, and since METRO won't be announcing the final plans for the route it might be a little premature to play that card.

The Circus parking was a fiasco. I don't know all of the details, but I would imagine that something should have been done to allow the parking to be done as part of the "lease" of the space on there.

If parking is not allowed by Windsor, that's their right. But I think it would be a bit short sighted, people would be able to have dinner immediately after work or their errands and possibly make use of the fascilities there.

I've regularly parked at the Sears on main when jumping on the train for the medical center or downtown to take care of some business. I've gone in a purchased a few things that I needed when heading home afterwards. If anything, Sears has had no problems with people parking on the lot between fannin and San Jacinto.

[IHB2]

Well i went to the METRO meeting earlier today and they want it to stop at Scott! I asked them why they aren't going onto the campus and the response was..."well if the classes are in those buildings over there then i understand your concern" I said THAT IS U of H. NOT the stadium on Scott.

must have been your 1st METRO meeting

if you go to as many as I have this year, your head will explode. mine did when I noticed the Westpark options elevated rail only over residences and dropped to grade at the only 4 north-south arterials between Shepherd and 610.

[Highway6]

So..

They've had their 3 update meetings.

We get a decision and route from them when? August? September?

[GovernorAggie]

Regarding the bus incident this is the first that I have heard of it, seems like something that egregious would have made it onto the news. I would also agree that if it was done to block the rail it probably wasn't a very smart idea. Does anyone have any actual facts on this or is it hearsay and inuendo?

I honestly don't know if an arborist has been hired or an assessment has been done. The question was rhetorical. My neighbors that are heading up the anti railroading of Richmond effort are certainly smart enough to figure that out. I would be surprised if an arborist hasn't been consulted, and since METRO won't be announcing the final plans for the route it might be a little premature to play that card.

Re: Bus incident--I thought I heard something about that a while back. I don't know how long they sat there, but I do remember the illegal turn stuff. It wouldn't be the first time someone made an illegal turn and played chicken with the train.

(By the way, I hear a lot of people still talking about the disaster that is on Main because of the train hitting people. That train hits people much like a quarterback hits a defensive lineman. How many times does that train jump off the tracks and chase someone down and hit them? How often do freight trains get blames for accidents?)

Secondly, regarding the arborist? Why play the game? Sounds kinda sinister to me to wait until work has been done of deciding an alignment, only to try and change to game right at the end. If you know the info now, you should display it now. Otherwise (to use another football analogy) you may as well be like a coach waiting until 15 seconds left in the game to argue a first quarter bad call--and then be angry when your complaints are given very little weight. All I'm saying is that if you know the stuff now, say it now. Seems to me with that in mind that METRO is actually showing the cards (drawings, alignments, etc.), but AO may be playing a game.

Edited July 26, 2006 by GovernorAggie

[Leo]

My favorite moments at the meeting last night:

The woman who insisted that the light rail would be dangerous for kids crossing Richmond at Woodhead, especially because many of them don't speak English. She insisted the train would be more dangerous than the thousands of cars speeding through the intersections.

The woman who insisted that the current light rail trains are empty, even at rush hour!

The couple who could not understand why Metro was not proposing to purchase the 87 houses along 59 between Shepherd and Montrose on the east side of 59 that they could then demolish and put the train through there so it could hook up with Westpark. They were convinced this would be LESS disruptive than putting the train on Richmond.

All in all, it seemed to me that the opponents are anti-rail more than anti-rail on Richmond.

[west20th]

My favorite moments at the meeting last night:

The woman who insisted that the light rail would be dangerous for kids crossing Richmond at Woodhead, especially because many of them don't speak English.

Damn those English only train horns!!!!

[ricco67]

"LE' HONK! LE' HONK!"

"Oy honk! Oy Honk!"

"Du' Honk! Du' Honk!"

Would be some of the options...

For canadians..

"Honk, eh? Honk, EH?"

[tommyboy444]

One has to wonder where the neighborhoods behind Westpark are at these meetings. It seems as though they are less organized than Afton Oaks, which is a shame since they are probably our best hope of getting Rep. Culberson to support rail on Richmond

[nmainguy]

Re: Bus incident--I thought I heard something about that a while back. I don't know how long they sat there, but I do remember the illegal turn stuff. Secondly, regarding the arborist? Why play the game? AO may be playing a game.

I witnessed the bus turning onto Main from St. Joes. I had just gotten off the train and was waiting to cross when the bus bounced over the buttons and PARKED on Main. Not on the tracks-only in the traffic lane. You would think a bus driver would know to at least go around and let them out on Pierce or the bus shed if that's allowed for a private bus.

As far as the trees go, if an arborist was hired and found the majority of the trees were going to be OK-AO wouldn't want that infor to come out.

If anyone wants to see how trees survive major road construction, go look at the Live Oaks on McKinney next to City Hall.

All this game-playing and obtrusion the AOers are doing is really getting old.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

My favorite moments at the meeting last night:

The woman who insisted that the light rail would be dangerous for kids crossing Richmond at Woodhead, especially because many of them don't speak English. She insisted the train would be more dangerous than the thousands of cars speeding through the intersections.

The woman who insisted that the current light rail trains are empty, even at rush hour!

The couple who could not understand why Metro was not proposing to purchase the 87 houses along 59 between Shepherd and Montrose on the east side of 59 that they could then demolish and put the train through there so it could hook up with Westpark. They were convinced this would be LESS disruptive than putting the train on Richmond.

All in all, it seemed to me that the opponents are anti-rail more than anti-rail on Richmond.

your kidding right?? those excuses are fraking hilarious!!!!

[IHB2]

One has to wonder where the neighborhoods behind Westpark are at these meetings. It seems as though they are less organized than Afton Oaks, which is a shame since they are probably our best hope of getting Rep. Culberson to support rail on Richmond

representatives from those neighborhoods have attended every METRO meeting since last summer. even though it's probable that some in these neighborhoods voted for the 2003 referendum, the civic associations conducted neighborhood votes last summer and the results were opposition to any Westpark alignment. the results were sent to all elected and METRO officials last year and again this month. meetings have been held w/Culberson's people, and in person w/Wong and Clutterbuck. The West U City Council is on the record (in Feb) as opposing a Westpark alignment when Wong showed up and requested their support. The Bellaire City Council has taken no position.

after the public meetings in March/April no foot-stomping until METRO actually produced route options was the unanimous agreement among those 1000+ single-family residences along with a few hundred apts and duplexes. it's a far more populated residential area directly adjacent to a proposed route than AO and the other couple of single-family neighborhoods directly on Richmond, with similar demographics to AO.

METRO produced the maps July 18. the foot-stomping began July 19.

just b/c those groups opted to take a lower-profile approach than the anti-Richmond group does not mean they have not been organized. depending on how things go, there could be some unexpected surprises in the Nov elections.

[ricco67]

IHB2, fascinating.

What do you think the repercussion could be for the the various scenarios that is possible.

The final decision on this is going to be the first or 2nd week of august, right?

[Houstonian in Iraq]

IHB2, fascinating.

What do you think the repercussion could be for the the various scenarios that is possible.

The final decision on this is going to be the first or 2nd week of august, right?

I think I heard 8 Aug

[tommyboy444]

IHB2, that is great to hear that the westpark neighborhoods are voicing their opinions. How can Wong and Culberson support an alignment which is opposed by a larger portion of their district and claim that they are just representing their constituents? You would get the impression by the coverage that the Chron gives Afton Oaks at every METRO meeting that there is no opposition to the westpark alignment. I say give those SOBs Wong and Culberson hell, westpark!

representatives from those neighborhoods have attended every METRO meeting since last summer. even though it's probable that some in these neighborhoods voted for the 2003 referendum, the civic associations conducted neighborhood votes last summer and the results were opposition to any Westpark alignment. the results were sent to all elected and METRO officials last year and again this month. meetings have been held w/Culberson's people, and in person w/Wong and Clutterbuck. The West U City Council is on the record (in Feb) as opposing a Westpark alignment when Wong showed up and requested their support. The Bellaire City Council has taken no position.

after the public meetings in March/April no foot-stomping until METRO actually produced route options was the unanimous agreement among those 1000+ single-family residences along with a few hundred apts and duplexes. it's a far more populated residential area directly adjacent to a proposed route than AO and the other couple of single-family neighborhoods directly on Richmond, with similar demographics to AO.

METRO produced the maps July 18. the foot-stomping began July 19.

just b/c those groups opted to take a lower-profile approach than the anti-Richmond group does not mean they have not been organized. depending on how things go, there could be some unexpected surprises in the Nov elections.

[AftonAg]

IHB2, that is great to hear that the westpark neighborhoods are voicing their opinions. How can Wong and Culberson support an alignment which is opposed by a larger portion of their district and claim that they are just representing their constituents? You would get the impression by the coverage that the Chron gives Afton Oaks at every METRO meeting that there is no opposition to the westpark alignment. I say give those SOBs Wong and Culberson hell, westpark!

I just browsed through the last page of posts and I notice that not one of the regulars has commented on the poll of businesses on Richmond regarding Railroading Richmond - 200 out of 204 business are against rail on Richmond. That would be 98%, So much for METRO delivering droves of customers - Are these people all shortsighted, anti Houstonites? No they are people whose very livelyhood could be at stake . . . .

It is way more than just the Afton Oaks residents that are agianst railroading Richmond - Wake up and smell the coffee -

[nmainguy]

I just browsed through the last page of posts and I notice that not one of the regulars has commented on the poll of businesses on Richmond regarding Railroading Richmond - 200 out of 204 business are against rail on Richmond. That would be 98%, So much for METRO delivering droves of customers - Are these people all shortsighted, anti Houstonites? No they are people whose very livelyhood could be at stake . . . .

It is way more than just the Afton Oaks residents that are agianst railroading Richmond - Wake up and smell the coffee -

I don't drink coffee and I don't respond to an un-scientific poll that only included some residences and buisnesses between Main and Shepherd. West of Shepherd-nada.

BTW, your "railroading Richmond" is cute-uneffective but cute.

Edited July 27, 2006 by nmainguy

[AftonAg]

I don't drink coffee and I don't respond to un-scientific polls.

BTW, your "railroading Richmond" is cute-uneffective but cute.

I don't drink coffee either - but I can still smell it. Please tell me how you would conduct a scientific poll on this issue. I know of no other way than to go to the businesses in question and ask them "as a business owner on Richmond are you for against the proposed METRO rail route on Richmond? The poll I am referring to was cited in the Chronicle article in yesterday's paper (Page B5). They also cited a poll from an architect, forgive me but his name has escaped me for the moment. He "presented a petition with 1,000 signatures of people that are pro "Railroading Richmond". Invalid IMHO unless the signatures and addresses can be verified. Seems like if this is such a great thing for Houston; a city of what is it now 3.5 or 4 million people?; that he was only able to collect 1,000 signatures. Doesn't say much for the passion of Railroading Houston in general does it?

I am glad that you appreciate "Railroading Richmond", perhaps I should copyright it, or make a board (or bored) game out of it.

[nmainguy]

Please tell me how you would conduct a scientific poll on this issue. I know of no other way than to go to the businesses in question and ask them "as a business owner on Richmond are you for against the proposed METRO rail route on Richmond? The poll I am referring to was cited in the Chronicle article in yesterday's paper (Page B5). They also cited a poll from an architect,

A scientific poll would encompass the entire route. The poll taken only covered some residents and businesses between Main and Shepherd. Was it skewed to completely kill rail on Richmond or did the people doing the polling just not think it through? Why did they leave you out and every other resident and business west of Shepherd out? There must be thousands.

Again, your group hasn't followed through. Between silly yard signs, busses blocking traffic on Main Street and un-scientific polls, your group needs some work. At least my side presented petitions and didn't try to disguise it as a "poll"-as you called it.

[AftonAg]

A scientific poll would encompass the entire route. The poll taken only covered some residents and businesses between Main and Shepherd. Was it skewed to completely kill rail on Richmond or did the people doing the polling just not think it through? Why did they leave you out and every other resident and business west of Shepherd out? There must be thousands.

Again, your group hasn't followed through. Between silly yard signs, busses blocking traffic on Main Street and un-scientific polls, your group needs some work. At least my side presented petitions and didn't try to disguise it as a "poll"-as you called it.

The Houston Chronicle used the word poll, I merely referenced the article, with page number, the article indicated to me that it was an informal. I would have thought that was obvious to even the most casual observer.

Are you suggesting that every business and every resident between between Main and Hillcroft be polled? That is absurd. Please provide a photograph or some proof that a bus actually blocked traffic for the ten minutes that was stated in the earlier post.

Your side presented petitions that are not verifiable - which makes them worthless, well not completely worthless I guess the paper could be recycled. You think the yard signs are silly? What would you suggest? I think they get the point across that my neighborhood does not want a rail running through it. We have followed through where it counts.

As I stated yesterday you have no argument that will convince me that "Railroading Richmond" is a good thing. I doubt that there is any argument I could make that would convince you that "Railroading Richmond" is a bad thing.

I don't drink coffee and I don't respond to an un-scientific poll that only included some residences and buisnesses between Main and Shepherd. West of Shepherd-nada.

BTW, your "railroading Richmond" is cute-uneffective but cute.

Are you in buisness (or business) for yourself?

BTW "uneffective" cute, not in any dictionaries but cute. Try ineffective.

The point here is that probably 90% of the posts on this or any forum contain mis-spellings, improper usages, non-words, etc. Let's rise above the pettiness of pointing those out and stay on the issue.

[nmainguy]

The Houston Chronicle used the word poll, I merely referenced the article, with page number, the article indicated to me that it was an informal. I would have thought that was obvious to even the most casual observer.

AftonAg: They also cited a poll from an architect, forgive me but his name has escaped me for the moment. He "presented a petition with 1,000 signatures...

Chron:"At the board's July meeting, the group presented nearly 1,000 signatures affixed to petitions of other Richmond rail supporters.

That's what I referred to in my post responding to your calling the petition a poll. Perhaps you observe too casually.

Are you suggesting that every business and every resident between Main and Hillcroft be polled? That is absurd. Please provide a photograph or some proof that a bus actually blocked traffic for the ten minutes that was stated in the earlier post.

I'm suggesting a real poll would canvass a sampling of the entire route.

I was an eye-witness to the bus incident. If you had attended the meeting, you would have as well.

Your side presented petitions that are not verifiable.

As verifiable as an un-scientific poll I suppose.

As I stated yesterday you have no argument that will convince me that "Railroading Richmond" is a good thing. I doubt that there is any argument I could make that would convince you that "Railroading Richmond" is a bad thing.

I've no interest in trying to persuade you any longer. I and many others have been there and done that.

My goal now is to expose every falsehood, rumor and mis-information you and yours disseminate.

Edited July 27, 2006 by nmainguy

[RedScare]

This thread is starting to sound like one of those political threads on the Chronicle blogs. You know the ones..."George Bush is an idiot!...No, he's not!"....yeah, those. It goes nowhere, and accomplishes nothing. I propose that we all agree that most Afton Oaks residents and a significant number of Richmond business owners are opposed to rail. A significant number of Richmond stakeholders are in favor. Then we can move on to other issues, such as possible routes, possible alternatives, new info and other items of interest.

Those who merely want to inform the other side how stupid their position is, please refrain or start another thread under the heading, "I like beating my head against the wall". We'll all know where to look for your posts. For the rest of us, I think we all agree that we know why each side has taken their position. Let's move on to the details.

Thank you for your support.

Note: This is not to pick on either side, but like the Middle East, everyone feels a need to respond. Please end it here.

[Saddleman]

AftonAg Then why do you bother?

Edited July 27, 2006 by kingkirbythegreatoftexas

[ricco67]

I pretty much agree, the thread is going no where aside from the occasional discussions on the goings on at the meetings. This whole thing will be resolved in a few days and the whole thing will be moot.

Personally, I like the idea of an elevated section at TSU to placate the families that are there.

[TheNiche]

I pretty much agree, the thread is going no where aside from the occasional discussions on the goings on at the meetings. This whole thing will be resolved in a few days and the whole thing will be moot.

Personally, I like the idea of an elevated section at TSU to placate the families that are there.

The only problem with an elevated section is that it would cut through the tree canopy.

[nmainguy]

The only problem with an elevated section is that it would cut through the tree canopy.

Is that a picture of Wheeler? With a bus stop? I thought Wheeler had been closed to traffic.

Edited July 27, 2006 by nmainguy

[TheNiche]

Is that a picture of Wheeler? With a bus stop? I thought Wheeler had been closed to traffic.

Yep, that's what what became of Wheeler. I was puzzled as well. There are even barricades to prevent the entry of vehicular traffic, so there's not even an opportunity for temporary use.

I guess they just haven't gotten around to removing it yet.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Thats the shelter, the bus stop has been long ago removed. Looking at that pic, i think the train would be a nice addition to that strip of street at grade keeping the trees intact. Taking the rail line out to the campus and turning it at the barricade may not be the best option. Theres not really a lot of room to manuver there.......

[MexAmerican_Moose]

i still think it should end at alabama at UH14..my guess is that more UH than TSU students would use the rail if it went down alabama

[musicman]

The only problem with an elevated section is that it would cut through the tree canopy.

It would also affect it if it was at ground level.

[westguy]

Those trees don't look very old. I've seen ones that size transplanted at the Haliburton complex.