METRORail University Line

[ricco67]

Im conservative, Im an Aggie, I was at the bonfire site 30 mins after it fell, helping out.

Im very much not left leaning and have had enough heated debates on here myself...

Dont try to group together and label eveyone that disagrees with you.

That being said.. I very much see eye to eye with with every member of the "left leaning liberal crowd" as you put it, on here when it comes to putting rail down Richmond.

I've been to 3 of the Metro meetings/open houses and It takes alot of work on my part to bite my tounge when I hear the typical AO'er speaks and gives me the same tired reasons why there should be zero rail on Richmond, or zero rail period.

Speaking of irrelevant... To cite blogs concerning bonfire tree felling in the same sentence as Metro losing a few trees ( almost none in AO) to give us rail.... Whaaaaaa ??????

I have to agree with our esteemed member of this forum. While many of us have different political leanings and agendas, we have a tendency to try to respect each other's debates (usually with minimal name calling). Rarely do we change each other's minds, but we do look at our respective viewpoints in a slightly different slant.

[TheNiche]

this kind of gamesmanship is not the mark of a serious public agency.

Bull. Serious public agencies pull this kind of crap all the time. Very little would ever actually get done if they didn't. Metro is no exception.

Seriously, though...they've got a point about this. I wouldn't trust them either. When it comes down to it, they're just run by a different breed of politician.

I still favor the Richmond route when it all comes down to it, though. Frankly, I just don't give a ___ about AO. I say we pay each household along Richmond $10k, each one behind the ones along Richmond $5k, and be done with the matter.

[IHB2]

They are still in the planning phases, I would love to see a station and people in the meeting expressed it as noted in the richmondrail.com blog.

A METRO planner mentioned to me that no stations on Richmond from Wesleyan to Post Oak was the only hope of gaining some support in AO and the other neighborhoods east of Wesleyan.

He had no story about the lack of a station at Newcastle and Westpark or by the Chron bldg.

and, the tree thing - while METRO may make heroic efforts to work around oaks in the median, the survival rate will be low b/c of the construction/root compaction on both sides of each tree. like the Kirby reconstruction through River Oaks, where as much care as possible was exercised, many trees will have to be replaced.

[ricco67]

I happen to be in the A-oaks and at the first opportunity, I got some batteries for my camera and started clicking.

This is just off kettering from Westhiemer. I usually cut right through here, when I'm in the area. This happens to be at 1pm today and the traffic was heavy. The piccture doesn't show it, but there were a few cars ahead of me and several that were behind.

Basically, this is what I would consider an upper/middle class subdivision, with some higher end homes being built in the area. I can't really say what the avg. is but I would gather it's somewhere in the 300-500k range.

This is a bit further on, I believe this is where it turns into Newcastle heading towards Richmond. I had to stop to let traffic pass by so I could take a quick picture. I counted over 10 different trucks, mostly landscapers working in the area along with the various cable companies and telephone trucks as well as construction vehicles.

This is still heading down on Newcastle. my other photos aren't available yet, but I will try to post them at a later date. I have some more business in the area, so I will probably get some more tomorrow.

[Pumapayam]

while METRO may make heroic efforts to work around oaks in the median, the survival rate will be low b/c of the construction/root compaction on both sides of each tree. like the Kirby reconstruction through River Oaks, where as much care as possible was exercised, many trees will have to be replaced.

Those roots run pretty deep, but I will trust you assessment, hopefully that is not true.

[nmainguy]

I happen to be in the A-oaks and at the first opportunity, I got some batteries for my camera and started clicking.

Thanks for the pics, ricco. I don't see any traffic to speak of or run-over kids and pets...in fact I don't seem to see any human activity at all.

However..........in the 3rd pic-house with red SUV....I believe that's the house of the guy who used to walk over to my home on Aftonshire so his dog could s#*it in my yard. One day my partner scooped it up and deposited it on his doorstep. That was the end of that.

[i'm not saying that's indicitive of your average AOer, ya know ]

[Subdude]

Reported thread.

Keep it on topic. We're not running flame wars here. If you feel compelled to make personal attacks on other members rather than discuss the topic at hand, then take it somewhere else. Any personal attacks will be deleted or the topic closed.

[bachanon]

QUOTE(IHB2 @ Thursday, July 20th, 2006 @ 9:49pm)

while METRO may make heroic efforts to work around oaks in the median, the survival rate will be low b/c of the construction/root compaction on both sides of each tree. like the Kirby reconstruction through River Oaks, where as much care as possible was exercised, many trees will have to be replaced.

Those roots run pretty deep, but I will trust you assessment, hopefully that is not true.

unfortunately, the diameter of an oak tree's canopy is relative to the diameter of its root system. sever the root system and you sacrifice portions of the canopy.

Edited July 21, 2006 by bachanon

[Pumapayam]

unfortunately, the diameter of an oak tree's canopy is relative to the diameter of its root system. sever the root system and you sacrifice portions of the canopy.

So the tree will have a slow death, (like the 11 minutes of silence we just had)

But the roots will grow back, so in theory, it will still be much better to risk that, rather than replant smaller trees.

[nmainguy]

unfortunately, the diameter of an oak tree's canopy is relative to the diameter of its root system. sever the root system and you sacrifice portions of the canopy.

Thanks, bach-I forgot about that. When they re-did McKinney next to city hall they trimmed those live oaks quite a bit. Now they are as beautiful as ever. Hopefully METRO will do the same if and when they go through AO.

[Mister X]

Perception is reality my friend - is that one fradulent signature or one million - they will have to check them all.

I don't think you have any perception of reality, you nut job.

I'm sure I will be quite able to give them a hand. I bet I can even find a few hundred others who would like to help validate signatures if needed - on this forum alone!

[TheNiche]

So the tree will have a slow death, (like the 11 minutes of silence we just had)

But the roots will grow back, so in theory, it will still be much better to risk that, rather than replant smaller trees.

Uh, not if there's six inches or more of concrete where the roots used to be. For that matter, I wonder what the electicity leakage will do, if anything? I know that they say that they'll fix the problem, but I just don't believe them.

[IHB2]

on another forum someone explained how current loss is unavoidable, but will not be a problem if the correct metals are used in the correct places and some other technical stuff, which is something METRO admits it will do a better job of than it did on the Main Line.

the trees will probably be ok w/the stray current. it's really just a problem for metals like rebar, structural steel, etc so it can degrade manmade structures.

[bachanon]

So the tree will have a slow death, (like the 11 minutes of silence we just had)

But the roots will grow back, so in theory, it will still be much better to risk that, rather than replant smaller trees.

indeed.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

um the two that got out were the longhorns

you serious? one was an aggie and the other was a longhorn, duh!!!

look at sig to see what that dude thinks about trees

Edited July 21, 2006 by MexAmerican_Moose

[AftonAg]

The "or" is in reference to the (2) adjoining words (Buffalo Speedway,Greenway Plaza)

Everything else is an assumed "and"

Are you trying to convince me that list will only have 2 or 3 stops, it will be at least 7.

I never got the website to the Afton Oaks coalition btw. . . can you all afford one?

I don't know how many stops are intended and maybe you are right about the or - but then that is the METRO way of doing things. Confusion reigns, keep everything vague, commit to nothing, bluff & bluster is the order of the day. Certainly this isn't World Class planning; perhaps it is 50% of world class planning or shall we say half-class planning?

No we can't afford a website. We're putting all of our money into signs, and ploitical donations to stop the rail on Richmond. Better spent there don't you think?

[AftonAg]

I happen to be in the A-oaks and at the first opportunity, I got some batteries for my camera and started clicking.

This is just off kettering from Westhiemer. I usually cut right through here, when I'm in the area. This happens to be at 1pm today and the traffic was heavy. The piccture doesn't show it, but there were a few cars ahead of me and several that were behind.

Basically, this is what I would consider an upper/middle class subdivision, with some higher end homes being built in the area. I can't really say what the avg. is but I would gather it's somewhere in the 300-500k range.

This is a bit further on, I believe this is where it turns into Newcastle heading towards Richmond. I had to stop to let traffic pass by so I could take a quick picture. I counted over 10 different trucks, mostly landscapers working in the area along with the various cable companies and telephone trucks as well as construction vehicles.

This is still heading down on Newcastle. my other photos aren't available yet, but I will try to post them at a later date. I have some more business in the area, so I will probably get some more tomorrow.

I think that last pic is headed back towards Westheimer on the Newcastle to Kettering transition. As for the house with the red SUV and the return of his pooch's offering - well done. I have had some discussion with that same individual regarding unwanted deposits. I am also happy to know that I am not the only AO'r that you have given that to. (that was a joke ricco - some AO humor)

I don't think you have any perception of reality, you nut job.

I'm sure I will be quite able to give them a hand. I bet I can even find a few hundred others who would like to help validate signatures if needed - on this forum alone!

another personal attack, sheesh. I believe that all of my perceptions are firmly grounded in reality. I don't believe that someone from Colorado, or any other state or any other city outside of Harris County should be allowed to sign a petition that could affect my neighborhood. If that bothers you I am sorry. Would it be fair for me to solicit all West Texas & New Mexico republicans to petition against rail? Of course it wouldn't and I would expect quite a hue and cry if that were to happen. I will live with whatever the outcome of this is, I would just like to see some transparency and honesty in the entire process. If that is too much to ask please let me know.

[ricco67]

I don't know how many stops are intended and maybe you are right about the or - but then that is the METRO way of doing things. Confusion reigns, keep everything vague, commit to nothing, bluff & bluster is the order of the day. Certainly this isn't World Class planning; perhaps it is 50% of world class planning or shall we say half-class planning?

No we can't afford a website. We're putting all of our money into signs, and ploitical donations to stop the rail on Richmond. Better spent there don't you think?

Actually, it's the normal way of doing things. Until things are committed on a blueprint, things are always being adjusted, substracted and added. It's done on things as simple on a building to oil rigs, to aircraft carriers.

Unfortunately Legal-speak is all too common, but the stops have to be seperated enough to make it move at a proper pace, where unlike buses, you just can't stop at every block.

It's a pity your neighborhood isn't as pragmatic as a gentlemen quoted in this Houston Chronical article. The gentleman who owns a BUSINESS on Harrisburg:

""It's going to hurt my business for a while," said Bob Townley, owner of C&R Auto, 5702 Harrisburg. "But I think Harrisburg is the only intelligent way to approach the East End," he said."

If a BUSINESS OWNER ON THE LINE is able to see beyond his own front step and see a short term problem turn into a long term benifit, why can't the citizens of A-oaks?

It's also nice to know that our politicians are so easily up for sale. How much did you donate to culberson to have him take up your cause?

As far as any "personal attacks" on here, just ignore them or simply answer the question, they'll eventually be dealt with if they don't straighten out thier behavior.

Edited July 21, 2006 by ricco67

[nmainguy]

I don't believe that someone from Colorado, or any other state or any other city outside of Harris County should be allowed to sign a petition that could affect my neighborhood. If that bothers you I am sorry. Would it be fair for me to solicit all West Texas & New Mexico republicans to petition against rail?

The petition http://richmondrail.org/support/petition.php is a non-binding document that exists only to support a position. My nephew signed-he is currently residing in Alabama finishing a grad degree. He's coming back to live when he's finished. C2H may indeed return. There may be people in West Texas and New Mexico in the same positions. You don't know what anyone's intentions are. You seem to be grasping at straws. Again, a non-issue has been blown out of proportion.

Perhaps sticking to the facts regarding trees, stations and alignment would better serve the discussion instead of off-tangent rants.

BTW, there any number of ways to protect tree roots. Realize that only the street side of the tree's root ball will be disturbed and again, I urge you to look at the live oaks on McKinney next to city hall.

[C2H]

another personal attack, sheesh. I believe that all of my perceptions are firmly grounded in reality. I don't believe that someone from Colorado, or any other state or any other city outside of Harris County should be allowed to sign a petition that could affect my neighborhood.

Since you seem to be stuck on the fact about me being from Colorado, signing the petition. I'll have you know that i am in Houston at least 2 weeks out of every month to take care of my grandmother and upkeeping her property (There's benefits in having family that works for the airline business to where i can fly cheap using buddy passes).

Furthermore, I'm 1/2 your age so i'm the one who will be affected by the decisions made now which will impact Houston's future more so than you will.

And For your information, i am in the process of moving to Houston permanently since i'm down there 1/2 of the time anyway. And guess what? My grandmother lives in Midtown off Wheeler and 59, right before it changes to Richmond. She's leaving the house in my name in her will, so i think i'm valid enough to voice some opinion... thank you very much!

[bachanon]

i've signed the petition as well. i'm from the woodlands. we use the main street line every time we come to town, FOR FUN. we would certainly benefit from the richmond line connecting with the main street line, the menil, greenway plaza and the galleria. it seems like a no brainer. sorry afton oaks. i see it as growing pains.

[GovernorAggie]

Wow C2H.

When I am governor, I will change the law so that TxDOT has to get voter approval AND BE SPECIFIC about each and every new freeway that they build And they will have to finish engineering and show each and every property that will be taken for widenings of existing freeways (but only in counties of 525,692 people or more, akin to Texas law-writing style). METRO has an accountability that is unheard of in this state, especially when you look at TxDOT. If TxDOT had METRO's accountability, things would possibly be done much differently here.

That way we might not have Afton Oaks residents thanking Culberson for paving over the residents of Spring Valley so they can get to Katy Mills faster. The nerve of those people to tell Culberson (at the St. Luke's meeting) one by one how great Katy Freeway is! I was flabbergasted and I don't even live in Spring Valley. I wish a Spring Valley resident would let them know how great their taxes are since TxDOT ate their shopping center.

AftonAg, do you think Spring Valley residents or Third Ward residents or Fifth Ward residents know how you feel? Yes they do. However, they also know that you may not care too much about them because you use freeways (I-10, SH 288, US 59) that replaced their homes and businesses, yet (in some eyes) selfishly don't want a much less intrusive transportation improvement done near you?

Another question--you aren't against transit, but given the grand scheme of things, I think you realize the value of access through your area. Would you feel better about a subway? If so, which would bother you more--3X the cost of the line or having the line at-grade in front of you? The subway won't happen, but I'm just curious.

Edited July 21, 2006 by GovernorAggie

[IHB2]

I predict future generations will remember John Culberson as the greatest enabler of eminent domain "takings" in Harris County history (maybe FB County too).

what a conservative.

[skwatra]

i signed the petition, using my midtown apartment address. this is not the same as my permanent address, but i do reside there. hopefully this won't revoke the whole petition.

[ricco67]

i signed the petition, using my midtown apartment address. this is not the same as my permanent address, but i do reside there. hopefully this won't revoke the whole petition.

if delay can do it, i can't see why you can't.

[AftonAg]

Wow C2H.

When I am governor, I will change the law so that TxDOT has to get voter approval AND BE SPECIFIC about each and every new freeway that they build And they will have to finish engineering and show each and every property that will be taken for widenings of existing freeways (but only in counties of 525,692 people or more, akin to Texas law-writing style). METRO has an accountability that is unheard of in this state, especially when you look at TxDOT. If TxDOT had METRO's accountability, things would possibly be done much differently here.

That way we might not have Afton Oaks residents thanking Culberson for paving over the residents of Spring Valley so they can get to Katy Mills faster. The nerve of those people to tell Culberson (at the St. Luke's meeting) one by one how great Katy Freeway is! I was flabbergasted and I don't even live in Spring Valley. I wish a Spring Valley resident would let them know how great their taxes are since TxDOT ate their shopping center.

If I were to go to Katy Mills (I haven't as yet) I would take the Westpsrk tollway the Grand Parkway. Less traffic & safer.

AftonAg, do you think Spring Valley residents or Third Ward residents or Fifth Ward residents know how you feel? Yes they do. However, they also know that you may not care too much about them because you use freeways (I-10, SH 288, US 59) that replaced their homes and businesses, yet (in some eyes) selfishly don't want a much less intrusive transportation improvement done near you?

Governor You don't know much about my travel habits so don't assume which freeways I use. I was on I10 today from Beltway 8 to Dairy Ashford round trip. That is the first time I have been on the Katy Freeway since 1999.

Another question--you aren't against transit, but given the grand scheme of things, I think you realize the value of access through your area. Would you feel better about a subway? If so, which would bother you more--3X the cost of the line or having the line at-grade in front of you? The subway won't happen, but I'm just curious.

I would prefer the subway, but as you point out it is cost prohibitive, but I think it would be more than 3X given soil conditions, an the permanent de-watering that would be required. I still like the idea of canoes on the bayous has a nice ring to it.

Actually, it's the normal way of doing things. Until things are committed on a blueprint, things are always being adjusted, substracted and added. It's done on things as simple on a building to oil rigs, to aircraft carriers.

Unfortunately Legal-speak is all too common, but the stops have to be seperated enough to make it move at a proper pace, where unlike buses, you just can't stop at every block.

It's a pity your neighborhood isn't as pragmatic as a gentlemen quoted in this Houston Chronical article. The gentleman who owns a BUSINESS on Harrisburg:

""It's going to hurt my business for a while," said Bob Townley, owner of C&R Auto, 5702 Harrisburg. "But I think Harrisburg is the only intelligent way to approach the East End," he said."

If a BUSINESS OWNER ON THE LINE is able to see beyond his own front step and see a short term problem turn into a long term benifit, why can't the citizens of A-oaks?

It's also nice to know that our politicians are so easily up for sale. How much did you donate to culberson to have him take up your cause?

As far as any "personal attacks" on here, just ignore them or simply answer the question, they'll eventually be dealt with if they don't straighten out thier behavior.

Ignored.

THAT oughta delay Richmond Rail indefinitely.

Nice touch of sarcasm red.

[AftonAg]

Since you seem to be stuck on the fact about me being from Colorado, signing the petition. I'll have you know that i am in Houston at least 2 weeks out of every month to take care of my grandmother and upkeeping her property (There's benefits in having family that works for the airline business to where i can fly cheap using buddy passes).

Furthermore, I'm 1/2 your age so i'm the one who will be affected by the decisions made now which will impact Houston's future more so than you will.

And For your information, i am in the process of moving to Houston permanently since i'm down there 1/2 of the time anyway. And guess what? My grandmother lives in Midtown off Wheeler and 59, right before it changes to Richmond. She's leaving the house in my name in her will, so i think i'm valid enough to voice some opinion... thank you very much!

Information that I didn't have but obviously should have known I guess. I am sorry that your grandmother requires your care, but happy that you are providing it. I have been there and I know it isn't fun. Care from a family member comes with love automatically. If you really are moving to Houston permanently let me be the first to welcome you to Texas.

so you are 1/2 my age and you will be affected by these decisions more than me. Well I expect to live a long time so I am not sure you are right on that point. Are you implying that my opinion isn't as valid as yours because of that, or that you are "more equal than me" (Animal Farm - George Orwell) How Orwellian - 1984esque if you get my drift. (You may recall in that book everyone was killed when they turned 30.

Where do you pay taxes?

When your grandmother leaves the house to you, or you reside in the area fulltime you will be valid in my opinion, and only my opinion. But I find your input interesting.

The petition http://richmondrail.org/support/petition.php is a non-binding document that exists only to support a position. My nephew signed-he is currently residing in Alabama finishing a grad degree. He's coming back to live when he's finished. C2H may indeed return. There may be people in West Texas and New Mexico in the same positions. You don't know what anyone's intentions are. You seem to be grasping at straws. Again, a non-issue has been blown out of proportion.

Perhaps sticking to the facts regarding trees, stations and alignment would better serve the discussion instead of off-tangent rants.

BTW, there any number of ways to protect tree roots. Realize that only the street side of the tree's root ball will be disturbed and again, I urge you to look at the live oaks on McKinney next to city hall.

Please nmain quote one of my "rants". I don't think I have actually ranted, do I use a sepcial emoticon for that.

if delay can do it, i can't see why you can't.

I fully expect that the petition will be signed by some dead people before it is over with, and that's okay too as long as you are sure that is what they would have wanted.

Last I checked Newcastle is DEAD center inside Afton Oaks my friend, with Westlayan only 3 blocks away.

What's the website to the neighborhood coalition, I'd like to write an email about you too

you are correct about the location of Newcastle - but if Weslayan is only three blocks away they are long blocks.

the website for the AO Coalition is unlisted to those outside the neighborhood <sorry>. I could tell you but ............. well you know what I would have to do next.

[nmainguy]

When your grandmother leaves the house to you, or you reside in the area fulltime you will be valid in my opinion, and only my opinion. But I find your input interesting.

Please nmain quote one of my "rants". I don't think I have actually ranted, do I use a sepcial emoticon for that.

Good to know HAIF now has a validaterer...kinda like our very own Bushie the Deciderer.

BTW, you might want to get the doc to look at that sepcial...it can creep up on ya.

[GovernorAggie]

Folks, I would like to remind us all of Subdude's warnings--this thread has been too good for too long. Please do not let this be shut down.

With that in mind, I will say that from my observations, AftonAg won't go away (nor should he), however, AftonAg can't expect people to all of a sudden "warmly" welcome his opinions, IMO. I think it's foolishness honestly. Just like, as a rail supporter, I can't expect to be treated to nicely by people in the Afton Oaks neighborhood meetings, because they don't have to. May the Lord be with the METRO employee that would set foot in a meeting like that. He or she would deserve a paid month off afterwards.

Anyway, though I am a strong supporter of rail on Richmond (all the way through), I am so irritated with these people that I wish that METRO would just quit. However, that's why I'm not in charge of METRO, because I think that AOers actually hope that happens...maybe they won't defeat rail on its merits, but maybe they can at least delay it enough to hope METRO gives up.

Remember AftonAg, it's our tax dollars too. No one is too concerned about it being in your front yard as much as you are because they don't have to. Just like (I repeat) you and your neighbors probably weren't too concerned about I-10 expansion or the Westpark Tollway being built right at people's back windows--not back yards--but back windows, because you didn't have to. What makes you all better than the others?

Lastly, even if METRO turns to Westpark before Afton Oaks, you all will have a very uncooperative beast to deal with when the county comes in to build its 2200' (yes 22 HUNDRED, as in nearly 1/2 mile) overpass over the railroad tracks. In fact, the way the county manhandled the neighborhoods along the Westpark and Fort Bend Tollroads will make you long for the good ol' days of tangling with METRO. Those unelected board members (selected and empowered by everyone's favorite elected mayor and county judge, by the way) will seem like your best friends compared to the County.

Edited July 21, 2006 by GovernorAggie

[Gary]

Folks, I would like to remind us all of Subdude's warnings--this thread has been too good for too long. Please do not let this be shut down.

With that in mind, I will say that from my observations, AftonAg won't go away (nor should he), however, AftonAg can't expect people to all of a sudden "warmly" welcome his opinions, IMO. I think it's foolishness honestly. Just like, as a rail supporter, I can't expect to be treated to nicely by people in the Afton Oaks neighborhood meetings, because they don't have to. May the Lord be with the METRO employee that would set foot in a meeting like that. He or she would deserve a paid month off afterwards.

Anyway, though I am a strong supporter of rail on Richmond (all the way through), I am so irritated with these people that I wish that METRO would just quit. However, that's why I'm not in charge of METRO, because I think that AOers actually hope that happens...maybe they won't defeat rail on its merits, but maybe they can at least delay it enough to hope METRO gives up.

Remember AftonAg, it's our tax dollars too. No one is too concerned about it being in your front yard as much as you are because they don't have to. Just like (I repeat) you and your neighbors probably weren't too concerned about I-10 expansion or the Westpark Tollway being built right at people's back windows--not back yards--but back windows, because you didn't have to. What makes you all better than the others?

Lastly, even if METRO turns to Westpark before Afton Oaks, you all will have a very uncooperative beast to deal with when the county comes in to build its 2200' (yes 22 HUNDRED, as in nearly 1/2 mile) overpass over the railroad tracks. In fact, the way the county manhandled the neighborhoods along the Westpark and Fort Bend Tollroads will make you long for the good ol' days of tangling with METRO. Those unelected board members (selected and empowered by everyone's favorite elected mayor and county judge, by the way) will seem like your best friends compared to the County.

Great post Gov.