METRORail University Line

[KinkaidAlum]

First you claimed there has been NO development along the original line.

I then provided you with a list just off of the top of my head and I don't even live in Houston.

You then claimed that most of that stuff would have happened regardless and that I couldn't prove that the rail had anything to do with any of the developments.

I then proceeded to tell you that you can look at actual developer's websites like Century Development, Memorial Hermann project, T'afia, Inman Gallery, Pavilions, etc... and that all of them will tell you that rail was a reason they chose their sites and influenced how their sites were developed.

So, you then move on to say that most of the development has been by government entities.

So, I gave you a short list of companies and individuals like Century Development, Farb Homes, Monica Pope, etc... that are far from government entities.

As a last resort, you are now saying that most of the stuff is conversions and very little has been built "new."

Well, get back to me when you can honestly make the claim that The UH Downtown Criminal Justice Center, Houston Pavilions, Ventanna at Midtown, Calais at Cortland Square, thousands of townhomes, Memorial Hermann Plaza, 1000 Main, McKinney Place, TWU Health Science Center, Mosaic, Hilton Americas, Toyota Center, Reliant Stadium, TMC Transit Center by Transwestern, Prairie View's new Nursing Bldg, 2222 Smith Apartments, CitiPlace, and so much more are in converted spaces.

So, what else ya got?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

But as far as rail going near TSU. How will that work when Wheeler dead ends right in front of the rec center?

TSU is the reason Wheeler dead ends there. They achieved that goal a few years ago to eliminate the auto traffic through that part of the campus. I think the people on the TSU opposition to rail team are likening the rail traffic to that of all the auto traffic they used to have through there when Wheeler wasnt a dead end.

[musicman]

speaking of the east side of the University Rail, i would prefer the rail going through Alabama and ending at UH entrance 14. makes more sense than putting it down Wheeler....the TSU students do not want it but i am sure that many of us UH students would want the rail to drop us off right in front of our school....as far as Richmond is concerned...just build the damn thing on it...leave off a stop at Afton Oaks because they will not use it anyways..

Well i went to the METRO meeting earlier today and they want it to stop at Scott! I asked them why they aren't going onto the campus and the response was..."well if the classes are in those buildings over there then i understand your concern" I said THAT IS U of H. NOT the stadium on Scott.

Edited July 26, 2006 by musicman

[CE_ugh]

Aerial view of eastern alignments

http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/...ll01.125970.pdf

It looks from the air that the Alabama alignment that turns under US 59 would require the least number of property aquisitions. However continuing on Alabama to the current Main Street line would better serve HCC. However it would require a sharp turn onto Main, probably requiring demolition of a gas station, not to mention a turn onto Richmond at the Wheeler station.

I can no longer see a Wheeler alignment being selected because of the opposition from TSU. Even Elgin seems like a long shot. Elgin's fatal flaw as i see it is its turn from Crawford onto Elgin. Blocking the turn is a mutli story apartment. A turn could be made, but at the expense of Baldwin Park. Also its far from the UH center and even farther from TSU.

In any event, along any alignment, it looks like to only complete property aquisitions will take place in the Wheeler station area.

Section from Wakeforest to Loop 610

http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/...ay02.125975.pdf

Even though this is preliminary, NO AFTON OAKS STATION. However i have noticed somethings about the right of way along Richmond. 121 ft is a uncommon butly wide right of way. I have driven through this neighborhood many times and thought Afton Oaks is lucky to have it. While right of way is measured from the property line, a typical section will still leave 8 feet between the property line and the roadway. Also 18 feet of median is more than enough to allow large trees to survive. TWO rows of the same type of live oak trees exist in good health in the 22 foot median of broadway in Galveston. Also, a 2400 foot bridge may seem like a huge bridge but is actually shorter than the current Westpark bridge. Plus, light rail can manage steep grades as much as 12% and does not have to worry about limited sight distances like cars do. It would not tower over Afton Oaks like Seger would have people to believe.

I didn't know they were looking at Timmons to transfer over to Westpark. That would not interfere with the Weslayan-Richmond intersection, and would allow a station to serve a neighborhood that is transitioning to medium-density housing. Personally i'd rather have an alignment along the UP ROW. But i can see the techincal challenges in doing so.

I know it looks cool, but just like the comment box says, a Greenway Plaza station is a expensive prospect. I cant see how Metro will justify it's cost.

Wakeforest to 527

http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/...ay03.125978.pdf

I knew Richmond was narrow in this area, but 75 feet at Greenbriar! Luckily they have the sense not to put a station here. I hope they get creative in this area to reduce the need for property acquistions because I know residents and businesses dont have much to work with anyway.

However turning at Shepherd isnt much better. Not only will it take a chunk of Coney Island's parking lot, where a large anti-rail sign stands I might add, but it will go the wrong way down Farnham and Greenbriar. Then it will necessitate two sharp turns. Also, why would Metro go more than 2/3 of the way to the relative easy construction past Kirby, and then suddenly veer off and go to a just as narrow Westpark cooridor.

Hilcroft to 610

http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/...ay01.125973.pdf

The thing that sours me about a Richmond alignment in this area is the turns that have to be negotiated. Both intersections with Richmond/Sage Road and Westpark/Rice Blvd. are very busy. Plus, the Uptown line MUST negotiate the Westpark Road/Westpark Tollway/Post Oak Road/ 610/ 59 intersection. I dont know how Metro would or could have a train leading straight to the Galleria at this point, although it would probably be easier with a Westpark alignment.

Well i went to the METRO meeting earlier today and they want it to stop at Scott! I asked them why they aren't going onto the campus and the response was..."well if the classes are in those buildings over there then i understand your concern" I said THAT IS U of H. NOT the stadium on Scott.

The UH master plan says rail is planned to the PGH building. I would guess it would be done after Cullen is closed.

Edited August 10, 2006 by CE_ugh

[TheNiche]

Well i went to the METRO meeting earlier today and they want it to stop at Scott! I asked them why they aren't going onto the campus and the response was..."well if the classes are in those buildings over there then i understand your concern" I said THAT IS U of H. NOT the stadium on Scott.

I think that the reason is that UH has informally planned to pay for its own LRT extension past the stadium and into Entrance 14, within the campus.

[The Voice of University Oaks]

Elgin probably would perform poorly from a ridership standpoint. The fact that there aren't any buses that run along Elgin right now should say something. Also, it's too far from the TSU campus.

I think the Alabama option makes the most sense. It still serves TSU without cutting through the middle of their campus. It also goes right through the Cuney Homes housing project, which is probably a plus for ridership. Plus, Alabama has a median whereas Wheeler does not, so construction might be easier.

[musicman]

First you claimed there has been NO development along the original line.

I then provided you with a list just off of the top of my head and I don't even live in Houston.

You then claimed that most of that stuff would have happened regardless and that I couldn't prove that the rail had anything to do with any of the developments.

I then proceeded to tell you that you can look at actual developer's websites like Century Development, Memorial Hermann project, T'afia, Inman Gallery, Pavilions, etc... and that all of them will tell you that rail was a reason they chose their sites and influenced how their sites were developed.

So, you then move on to say that most of the development has been by government entities.

So, I gave you a short list of companies and individuals like Century Development, Farb Homes, Monica Pope, etc... that are far from government entities.

As a last resort, you are now saying that most of the stuff is conversions and very little has been built "new."

Well, get back to me when you can honestly make the claim that The UH Downtown Criminal Justice Center, Houston Pavilions, Ventanna at Midtown, Calais at Cortland Square, thousands of townhomes, Memorial Hermann Plaza, 1000 Main, McKinney Place, TWU Health Science Center, Mosaic, Hilton Americas, Toyota Center, Reliant Stadium, TMC Transit Center by Transwestern, Prairie View's new Nursing Bldg, 2222 Smith Apartments, CitiPlace, and so much more are in converted spaces.

So, what else ya got?

quess you're talking to me since there are several misquotes. I didn't say there has been NO development. I specifically pointed out the new garage at HCC.

I just dont know how you can say that Hilton Americas was built because of the rail. Reliant stadium was not built because of the rail. Toyota center was not built because of the rail. Memorial Hermann was not built because of rail either. The TMC transit center was built because of rail so i'll give you that one. UHD expansion was already in the works. I did NOT say that rail didn't influence a change in certain projects. For instance, the HCC garage built retail on the ground floor. The spaces are empty currently but it DID influence the design.

Houston pavilions doesn't exist so it isn't in a converted space.

I personally have not seen a Ventana at Midtown, Calais at Courtland Place nor thousands of townhomes on Main St. I do ride the train fairly frequently so I think i would have seen these projects.

I said along Main most of the NEW structures ARE due to governmental agencies. Just look at the downtown to museum district.

It must be a matter of symantics for me.

The UH master plan says rail is planned to the PGH building. I would guess it would be done after Cullen is closed.

METRO says otherwise. They stated that they haven't spoken with UH officials and that is why their maps show the line ending at Scott instead of going onto the campus.

I think that the reason is that UH has informally planned to pay for its own LRT extension past the stadium and into Entrance 14, within the campus.

I guess the METRO officials I spoke with today weren't aware of this fact. They told me that they had NOT spoken to UH officials yet.

Edited July 26, 2006 by musicman

[TheNiche]

So, what else ya got?

AftonAg isn't doing a very good job at arguing his point.

If he wanted to win this thing decisively in a way that you couldn't effectively rebut, he'd say the following:

"There has been a great deal of development in the LRT area, but there has also been a great deal of development throughout the Inner Loop generally."

He would then ask:

"With the noted exception of a very few businesses that moved to Main Street for the stated specific reason that there was LRT, how can we be so sure that the LRT actually caused these new projects?"

He would also have cited:

"Many businesses have been cited in the Chronicle of having a dislike of LRT, including New Orleans Poboy, which lost a lot of its traffic because accessibilty was reduced for those in vehicles and also because there is no nearby station."

But he didn't...so shame on him.

[CE_ugh]

METRO says otherwise. They stated that they haven't spoken with UH officials and that is why their maps show the line ending at Scott instead of going onto the campus.

http://www.uh.edu/plantops/images/UH_Maste...s%20Meeting.pps

They need to talk.

Also musicman, even though the rail has hurt businesses along Main Street, can you agree that the rail line has benefitted the city as a whole. Even with its flaws, and there are many, I think it has and will continue to benefit the city.

Edited July 26, 2006 by CE_ugh

[musicman]

"Many businesses have been cited in the Chronicle of having a dislike of LRT, including New Orleans Poboy, which lost a lot of its traffic because accessibilty was reduced for those in vehicles and also because there is no nearby station."

Niche you must have read my mind regarding NO POBoy. I was talking about the METRO meeting earlier this evening to some friends and someone brought up NO POBoy and how business has dropped due to the streets being cut off. I actually rode the train to the METRO meeting and passed the old Frankel's south of 59. Take a ride down there to see how much access to their building has been cutoff. No parking remains which is why they moved. Anyone with some common sense would realize that the train killed the location.

Another comment from the meeting. It appears that the Fannin exit from 59 may be in jeopardy of closing. It appears that the rail will be cutting thru the downramp. I asked this question specifically and the one in charge of the area said that engineering hasn't been done so they don't know whether it will actually be closed.

Edited July 26, 2006 by musicman

[ricco67]

While this may, or may not be true (and I'm sure I'll be corrected), he just may be one of those residences that rarely gets out beyond work, home, and friends.

Those that have a tendency to "cocoon" in thier homes when they're not working, they rarely have a clue as to what's going on in the city outside of thier own worlds.

So it may not be that he isn't able to provide an adequate argument, but simply isn't familiar with his own city to cite what few justifiable arguments he may have.

Again note, he has yet to state his position of the High Street Development which definately will affect his neighborhood more than the Richmond rail.

[musicman]

Also musicman, even though the rail has hurt businesses along Main Street, can you agree that the rail line has benefitted the city as a whole. Even with its flaws, and there are many, I think it has and will continue to benefit the city.

I can't say it has benefitted the city as a whole. However, I can say SOME portions of the city have benefitted though.

[ricco67]

I can't say it has benefitted the city as a whole. However, I can say SOME portions of the city have benefitted though.

I have to side with Musicman on this one.

But it does serve a particular region just fine. It has helped out the med center and those living on the line to be able to move around easily. once the new brances are built out, they would be even more effective. The thing is that they're designed to help out the people in the immediate area and those that wish to reach those particular destinations that are on the rail.

I'm able to hop on at Sears hop on the at the wheeler station and get to scurlock tower in about 15 minutes. That is WAY faster than even driving into it, finding a place to park (IF i can find a place to park).

When it's time for me to leave, I waltz over (depending on my mood, I may saunter) to the stop and be back in my car in about 15minutes and be on my way. Did I mention I'll be waving at the people stuck in traffic? No? maybe next time.

Even if you're doing the valet thing, it'll take at least 10 minutes to find and get INTO your car, that doesn't include you having to WAIT to get out onto the street.

Light rail is a tool to get around, if used properly it'll benifit alot of people, once the lines are expanded, they'll help more. It just takes patience for the entire city to be connected. Provided that people like AA aren't successful in killing/delaying our attempts to make useful and logical mass transit a reality.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

METRO says otherwise. They stated that they haven't spoken with UH officials and that is why their maps show the line ending at Scott instead of going onto the campus.

I guess the METRO officials I spoke with today weren't aware of this fact. They told me that they had NOT spoken to UH officials yet.

I went to the METRO open house in the 3rd Ward back in June, and a METRO employee told me that UH would be paying for the light rail extension from Scott Street into campus.

There must be some miscommunication or lack of communication within METRO. That's not surprising in a large organization.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think the Alabama option makes the most sense. It still serves TSU without cutting through the middle of their campus. It also goes right through the Cuney Homes housing project, which is probably a plus for ridership. Plus, Alabama has a median whereas Wheeler does not, so construction might be easier.

Where do you think they should start on Alabama? All of it isnt as nice as the part on the east side of 288. West of 288 its a pot hole hilly badly put together street. There will have to be some MAJOR construction on the street there. It will have to be completely dug up and leveled out. I wonder how long that process would take?

[TheNiche]

I can't say it has benefitted the city as a whole. However, I can say SOME portions of the city have benefitted though.

Well put. Even once you're outside of 1/4 mile of a station (not the line, so much), the immediate neighborhood is hurt more than it is helped due to decreased connectivity. That string of 1/4-mile islands can create pods of Transit Oriented Development, but its less a corridor than a string of pearls. In between the pearls is a dead zone.

The very notion of a "starter" line was entirely flawed. The benefit of rail is derived from its efficiency, not from its Coolness. A system that connects residential areas with employment and activity centers in such a way that time and money are saved by riders is efficiency. The Red Line is neither a system nor efficient.

The University Line, on the other hand, creates the system. Although I still wonder as to whether the costs and benefits net out, I'm marginally in favor of LRT in general...but just barely. If they wanted to make me a convert, they'd have proposed an express connection with IAH and HOU right off the bat.

[AftonAg]

Well I'm certainly not a Metro apologist, as my posting history shows (defense of Tom DeLay's standing up to the old corrupt lying Metro back when they were run by a gal with a fraudulent resume, and a skepticism going back to Tootsie's monorail), but I can give you a viewpoint from someone who used to do landscaping and studied horticulture. Yes, construction carries a risk that some will die, but some or all could survive, too. There are plenty of examples around Texas of where streets were widened and the existing medians with trees were narrowed and many of the trees surviving. It just depends on each tree and how careful the crews are. I assume these are Live Oaks? That's a pretty tough species, one reason it is so overused for street plantings.

One danger is from soil compaction, which crushes the tiny pockets in the soil and makes it harder for the roots to 'breathe'. Most of the tree deaths on construction sites are the result of the heavy equipment packing down the soil over the roots, which is why a good contractor will put up temporary fencing around each tree to prevent this. So Metro can take measures to prevent compaction, though it would be very wise to have volunteers keep an eye on them during the process to make sure. But luckily Live Oaks are more tolerant of soil compaction than most trees.

Another problem is that the surface area where the shallow roots take in nutrients will (obviously) be reduced as the median is narrowed. So it will depend on how well each tree adapts to that change, but Live Oaks usually put down plenty of deep roots and are less dependent on their shallow ones. You might recall how small an open area street trees in downtown and dense nieghborhoods have beneath their grates (with paving and buildings everywhere else around them.) The AO trees in the narrowed medians will still have much more surface area than those trees, but again it depends on how well these mature trees adapt. Not sure how deep Metro's rail construction will go and if there are any special techniques they can use to reduce disturbance of the highest roots, but I'd say the odds are good that most or all of the trees will survive.

And we are talking about less than a dozen mature trees, yes? I looked at recent aerial photos and those from 1995, and this is what I see:

The trees are along a 1/4 mile strip of 2 main and 2 lesser medians. The 2 main medians (middle) each have 5 trees, with there is 1 on a lesser median to the east, and 3 trees with much smaller canopies on the lesser median to the west, and maybe a 4th tree that is a new planting without much of a canopy yet? In the 1995 photo those western 3 seem to cast short, thin shadows, perhaps being newly planted then. Also looks like 1 of the 4 in the 1995 photo didn't survive to the 2004 photo.

So at worst the neighborhood would lose 11 mature trees and 3 younger ones, but more likely all but perhaps one or two would survive.

Why not get an arborist out there to do an assessment? If the plan really does threaten the trees, this would bolster your argument and undercut Metro's credibility when they claim most or all of them can be saved. And if he/she finds that most or all should survive, then you won't have to worry about that aspect.

What makes you think we haven't already had an arborist out and gotten an assessment? Give us a little credit.

[AftonAg]

Actually, there are neighborhoods in Houston that have homes that are worth quite a bit more than Afton Oaks that the current light rail runs right next to.

I haven't seen a crash in Boulevard Oaks, Southampton, or Shadyside.

Just South of Rice University lies Southgate. Southgate is every bit as nice as Afton Oaks and home prices there have risen steadily over the past 5 years.

The Museum District has definitely seen a rise in property values.

As for putting a light rail line infront of Kinkaid...I'd be all for it as long as there was funding for it. That said, it would be quite stupid to put light rail that far outside of the Loop in a low density area. There are no major business centers West of Voss along San Felipe/Briar Forest. There's no Galleria to connect to. Or a Richmond Strip.

I don't get your point other than you just trying to throw some garbage out there since you CANNOT provide any evidence that your home's value will decrease.

Nor can you provide absolute, undeniable evidence that it will increase. There is also the issue of access to Afton Oaks from Richmond. As you and others have noted Afton Oaks is full of older folks, so no doubt there will be plenty of car train accidents. Getting onto Richmond is dicey enough as it is when you trow the trains in the mix it will really get difficult. Of course every cloud has a silver lining maybe this will keep ricco from cutting through our neighborhood.

AftonAg isn't doing a very good job at arguing his point.

If he wanted to win this thing decisively in a way that you couldn't effectively rebut, he'd say the following:

"There has been a great deal of development in the LRT area, but there has also been a great deal of development throughout the Inner Loop generally."

He would then ask:

"With the noted exception of a very few businesses that moved to Main Street for the stated specific reason that there was LRT, how can we be so sure that the LRT actually caused these new projects?"

He would also have cited:

"Many businesses have been cited in the Chronicle of having a dislike of LRT, including New Orleans Poboy, which lost a lot of its traffic because accessibilty was reduced for those in vehicles and also because there is no nearby station."

But he didn't...so shame on him.

Yeah shame on me Niche - I don't think it would make much difference what arguments I put up on this forum - I am clearly in the minority regarding railroading Richmond. Having said that I will also admit (as if y'all didn't already know it) that none of the arguments I have heard have swayed me even slightly. Contrary to popular thought I didn't originally post on here so that pro-railers could convert me with their intellectually superior arguments. The one consistent thing that I have seen is a lot of name calling, I have been labelled as pompous, arrogant, selfish, a hillbilly, and worse . . . and while I have made a couple of comments (for which I apologized) that were less than complimentary I have not stooped to name calling, or citing spelling errors.

[musicman]

Actually, there are neighborhoods in Houston that have homes that are worth quite a bit more than Afton Oaks that the current light rail runs right next to.

I haven't seen a crash in Boulevard Oaks, Southampton, or Shadyside.

Just South of Rice University lies Southgate. Southgate is every bit as nice as Afton Oaks and home prices there have risen steadily over the past 5 years.

The light rail isn't NEXT to Boulevard Oaks, Southampton, Southgate nor shadyside. As far as i know the light rail doesn't cut through ANY neighborhood. Afton Oaks is a different beast because it will cut directly through the neighborhood.

The proposed line does cut through numerous neighborhoods.

[CE_ugh]

Nor can you provide absolute, undeniable evidence that it will increase. There is also the issue of access to Afton Oaks from Richmond. As you and others have noted Afton Oaks is full of older folks, so no doubt there will be plenty of car train accidents. Getting onto Richmond is dicey enough as it is when you trow the trains in the mix it will really get difficult. Of course every cloud has a silver lining maybe this will keep ricco from cutting through our neighborhood.

Yeah shame on me Niche - I don't think it would make much difference what arguments I put up on this forum - I am clearly in the minority regarding railroading Richmond. Having said that I will also admit (as if y'all didn't already know it) that none of the arguments I have heard have swayed me even slightly. Contrary to popular thought I didn't originally post on here so that pro-railers could convert me with their intellectually superior arguments. The one consistent thing that I have seen is a lot of name calling, I have been labelled as pompous, arrogant, selfish, a hillbilly, and worse . . . and while I have made a couple of comments (for which I apologized) that were less than complimentary I have not stooped to name calling, or citing spelling errors.

That's pretty much the internet.

[Highway6]

"No, you don't hear what I'M saying"

"I'm saying I AM a Gator fan, and I'm calling into your show right now."

Did anyone go to the meeting last night ? Were there any more Pro-Richmond people there to counter the "Its Westpark, Stupid" people ??

This morning's Chronicle article.

I love thunderstorms.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Highway6

[musicman]

Did anyone go to the meeting last night ? Were there any more Pro-Richmond people there to counter the "Its Westpark, Stupid" people ??

There definitely were more anti-rail people there than pro-rail. The funniest thing happened when the METRO officials were asked questions and then slowly walked away while they were responding inadequately.

[ricco67]

There definitely were more anti-rail people there than pro-rail. The funniest thing happened when the METRO officials were asked questions and then slowly walked away while they were responding inadequately.

I had to miss the meeting, so there was a good turnout?

Were there "anti-rail" people or "Anti-richmond" people?

I think the line is going on richmond at least until Weslyan (which will be idiotic) but it's my hope that it goes from sage.

[musicman]

I had to miss the meeting, so there was a good turnout?

Were there "anti-rail" people or "Anti-richmond" people?

I think the line is going on richmond at least until Weslyan (which will be idiotic) but it's my hope that it goes from sage.

There was a combination of anti-richmond and anti-rail. One thing that METRO officials seemed puzzled about was the repeated comment about placing it at the intersection of Post Oak and Richmond. Everyone basically said it would make vehicular traffic worse.

I just think that METRO could easily avoid some major public concerns by elevating certain portions. The TSU concerns would be gone for instance.

[ricco67]

I didn't think of that, maybe having it slightly elevated in the TSU section wouldn't be THAT much more expensive and they don't necessarily need it that high up, maybe 12 feet or so. The only issue is accessability those in wheelchairs and crutches, but I don't see that as much of a problem either. It would probably be cheaper than going to the Elgin route.

I voiced that I wanted the Sage turn so people that live in the nearby apartments/condos can use it as well as people can park in the windsor plaza.

I also said that I would like SOME parking options at a couple of the stations.

Did anyone mention this website to officials? I forgot to push the forum when I was there.

[dp2]

What makes you think we haven't already had an arborist out and gotten an assessment? Give us a little credit.

Then what exactly was the arborist's assessment?

[nmainguy]

Then what exactly was the arborist's assessment?

My guess would be if they hired one and the assesment was helpful to their case, we'd already heard of it. So far the only $$ I've seen them spend is on signs on Richmond and the renting of a tour bus that made an illegal left turn across METRO tracks to park on Main-blocking traffic for 10 minutes as their supporters disembarked for a METRO board meeting earlier in the year.

[ricco67]

My guess would be if they hired one and the assesment was helpful to their case, we'd already heard of it. So far the only $$ I've seen them spend is on signs on Richmond and the renting of a tour bus that made an illegal left turn across METRO tracks to park on Main-blocking traffic for 10 minutes as their supporters disembarked for a METRO board meeting earlier in the year.

Wow! I haven't heard about the bus stunt. That's just plain juvenile. I hope they would have paid for the driver's lawyer if he got a ticket.

[nmainguy]

Wow! I haven't heard about the bus stunt. That's just plain juvenile. I hope they would have paid for the driver's lawyer if he got a ticket.

It does speak volumns...as actions have a way of doing things.

[AftonAg]

I didn't think of that, maybe having it slightly elevated in the TSU section wouldn't be THAT much more expensive and they don't necessarily need it that high up, maybe 12 feet or so. The only issue is accessability those in wheelchairs and crutches, but I don't see that as much of a problem either. It would probably be cheaper than going to the Elgin route.

I voiced that I wanted the Sage turn so people that live in the nearby apartments/condos can use it as well as people can park in the windsor plaza.

I also said that I would like SOME parking options at a couple of the stations.

Did anyone mention this website to officials? I forgot to push the forum when I was there.

So does Metro now own the WIndsor Plaza as well - I don't think so - and I doubt the owners want the added liability/inconvenience of cars parked in their lot that aren't customers. Seems like last year when they had the circus over behind the Windsor Plaza the circus patrons were getting towed for parking in the Windsor lot, but were allowed to park @ BestBuy.

Regarding the bus incident this is the first that I have heard of it, seems like something that egregious would have made it onto the news. I would also agree that if it was done to block the rail it probably wasn't a very smart idea. Does anyone have any actual facts on this or is it hearsay and inuendo?

My guess would be if they hired one and the assesment was helpful to their case, we'd already heard of it. So far the only $$ I've seen them spend is on signs on Richmond and the renting of a tour bus that made an illegal left turn across METRO tracks to park on Main-blocking traffic for 10 minutes as their supporters disembarked for a METRO board meeting earlier in the year.

I honestly don't know if an arborist has been hired or an assessment has been done. The question was rhetorical. My neighbors that are heading up the anti railroading of Richmond effort are certainly smart enough to figure that out. I would be surprised if an arborist hasn't been consulted, and since METRO won't be announcing the final plans for the route it might be a little premature to play that card.

There definitely were more anti-rail people there than pro-rail. The funniest thing happened when the METRO officials were asked questions and then slowly walked away while they were responding inadequately.

I was unable to attend last night's meeting music - but I am not surprised that there were more Anti's in attendance than Pros. Nor am I surprised that the METRO people walked away when they were responding inadequately. What specifically were they being asked?

That's pretty much the internet.

True CE - that's pretty much the public in general . . . the internet just makes it easier, I am so thankful that Al Gore invented it - where would we be without him & it?