METRORail University Line

[AftonAg]

That's what I referred to in my post responding to your calling the petition a poll. Perhaps you observe too casually.

Are you suggesting that every business and every resident between Main and Hillcroft be polled? That is absurd. Please provide a photograph or some proof that a bus actually blocked traffic for the ten minutes that was stated in the earlier post.

I'm suggesting a real poll would canvass a sampling of the entire route.

I was an eye-witness to the bus incident. If you had attended the meeting, you would have as well.

Your side presented petitions that are not verifiable.

As verifiable as an un-scientific poll I suppose.

As I stated yesterday you have no argument that will convince me that "Railroading Richmond" is a good thing. I doubt that there is any argument I could make that would convince you that "Railroading Richmond" is a bad thing.

I've no interest in trying to persuade you any longer. I and many others have been there and done that.

My goal now is to expose every falsehood, rumor and mis-information you and yours disseminate.

I have attended most of the meetings, sometimes my life interfere's, too bad that you don't have one other than bleating the same tired rhetoric about rail. I agree that Houston needs better mass transit to become a world class city, having travelled to MANY world class cities, the Richmond line in and of itself will not make Houston world class - we have a long way to go for that.

Had METRO really wanted to provide meaningful mass transit they would have left the rail that ran along Westpark and used real trains to move commuters from the West side suburbs into town. They would have had far more riders, removed far more cars from the freeways, without sacrificing existing infrastructure. It is METRO that is shortsighted, not the Afton Oaks crowd.

Regarding exposing falsehoods, rumors, and mis-information fair enough - rest assured that we have that goal in common . . . .

The light rail isn't NEXT to Boulevard Oaks, Southampton, Southgate nor shadyside. As far as i know the light rail doesn't cut through ANY neighborhood. Afton Oaks is a different beast because it will cut directly through the neighborhood.

The proposed line does cut through numerous neighborhoods.

Well said Musicman, the exact reason that my neighborhood is against the Richmond route.

[AftonAg]

AftonAg Then why do you bother?

I bother because I care - the same reason that most of the posts appear here. In spite of the fact that Nmain, Ricco, and Redscare don't agree with me, and never will there are many people that have gained a little more insight to how the Afton Oaks residents feel. That is verifiable by simply reading all the posts. I also believe that my presence has at least limited the some of the mindless smearing of my neighborhood and our position. Prior to my postings on this forum the Afton Oaks people were characterized as arrogant, stupid, selfish etc, etc, etc. At the very least I feel that I have shown many of the people that post on here that we are real people, just like the rest of the posters. That's why I bother.

As Ricco pointed out since I very seldom get out and don't really know what's going on in Houston it is a really cheap form of entertainment, that I can pursue from my house, in my skivvies, while I am waiting for the metamucil to kick in. It hasn't replaced the crossword puzzle yet, but its getting close.

[Saddleman]

Ok, I can dig it.

[Trae]

I think this thread needs to be closed until Aug. 8, or whenever the final design will be made.

[Highway6]

Prior to my postings on this forum the Afton Oaks people were characterized as selfish etc, etc, etc.

You think you've changed this perception ?

[wakester]

True. Everything I have seen from him has been. It will inconvenience ME. It will lower MY property value. Lest not forget. "What do you call a person for Afton Oaks? Boss." I doubt he is even from Afton Oaks, since he plays up every stereotype people have about that neighborhood. He is probably a teenager in Katy messing with all of you.

[wakester]

Here is what I don't understand, I looked at the Metro map and the busses 25, 53, 286, and 283 seem to go through Afton Oaks. Between 7am and 8am I counted around 25 busses going through there. The 286 and 283 are express commuter busses so they don't have stops there but I am sure 25 and 53 do. So if a bus has a stop it has to drive in the lane by the curb. Now if I lived there why would I want 25 loud, Diesel exhausting busses running though my street instead of say 15-20 electric trains running further away from the yards.

Because as all anti-rail people like to point out, Metro will re-route those buses so that they can drive up the rail numbers.

[ricco67]

As Ricco pointed out since I very seldom get out and don't really know what's going on in Houston it is a really cheap form of entertainment, that I can pursue from my house, in my skivvies, while I am waiting for the metamucil to kick in. It hasn't replaced the crossword puzzle yet, but its getting close.

Once again, you take what I say either too personal or totally out of context.

The thing is that people in GENERAL have a tendency to just focus on their own little worlds or what's happening in their immediate neighborhoods. They don't go out, and if they venture out to visit friends, they won't venture out of the path they go to their destionation.

Hence the term "cocconing".

Your posting pattern on this system mimicks the behavior. If you truly cared about anything outside of your neighborhood, you would be more involved in the other threads, which in some way may or may not affect you.

and yes, as long as there is traffic on Richmond or Westhiemer or the loop, I will cut throuough your neighborhood. I will cut on westcreek, Mid lane, newcastle, and the streets behind the new strip center.

So I'll be sure to wave as I drive through. I might even honk occasionally so you can feel what the residences on richmond are like.

[AftonAg]

You think you've changed this perception ?

In some cases yes, in your case no. Most of your responses to me have been little more than rants, and you are a prime example of a poster that can't disagree without being disagreeable.

True. Everything I have seen from him has been. It will inconvenience ME. It will lower MY property value. Lest not forget. "What do you call a person for Afton Oaks? Boss." I doubt he is even from Afton Oaks, since he plays up every stereotype people have about that neighborhood. He is probably a teenager in Katy messing with all of you.

Wakester I am concerned about my property values, and all of the property values in the Afton Oaks neighborhood, I am also conserned about property values inside loop 610 to a lesser degree. What about my comments regarding all of the businesses that will be affected - did you miss those or do you choose to ignore them? The "Boss" joke was a sarcastic response to Ricco when he asked me if I had a sense of humor. You need to go back and read all of my posts - they include apologies, support for mass transit in general, perhaps some sarcastic comments about some of the other posters, but no personal attacks.

[ricco67]

In some cases yes, in your case no. Most of your responses to me have been little more than rants, and you are a prime example of a poster that can't disagree without being disagreeable.

Wakester I am concerned about my property values, and all of the property values in the Afton Oaks neighborhood, I am also conserned about property values inside loop 610 to a lesser degree. What about my comments regarding all of the businesses that will be affected - did you miss those or do you choose to ignore them? The "Boss" joke was a sarcastic response to Ricco when he asked me if I had a sense of humor. You need to go back and read all of my posts - they include apologies, support for mass transit in general, perhaps some sarcastic comments about some of the other posters, but no personal attacks.

actually, it wasn't me about the sense of humor thing.

and while you proclaim that you are also concerned about the businesses on Richmond, that is pretty much a lie.

you yourself stated and condoned an alternative route along west park that would go up richmond as long as it bypassed your neighborhood, which would STILL (in your eyes) would affect the businesses. You're willing to sacrifice the businesses on Richmond as long as it doesn't go through your neighborhood.

And you still haven't mentioned "high street project."

[nmainguy]

Statistics from the American Public Transit Association, founded 1882

http://www.apta.com/research/info/online/land_use.cfm#lu5

Property Value Premiums for Transit-Oriented Development

Across the country, transit-oriented development has significantly greater value than property not near transit.

Larger urban areas experiencing boosts in property values include:

Dallas, Texas.

Edited July 28, 2006 by nmainguy

[musicman]

Statistics from the American Public Transit Association, founded 1882

http://www.apta.com/research/info/online/land_use.cfm#lu5

I'm guessing an organization that's been around for 124 years and gathers stats and info from a wide array of universities and transit experts worldwide must have a clue of transit's affect on residential and business property values.

Sounds plausible however when you look who the American Public Transit Association is, it gives less creedence to their statements. Here is what the website says.

As a member of the American Public transportation Association (APTA), you are part of an international organization that has been representing the transit industry for over 100 years, since 1882. APTA members include public bus, rapid transit and commuter rail systems, and the private organizations responsible for planning, designing, constructing, financing, supplying and operating transit systems. APTA has six different categories of membership, and offers a "Basic option" to certain of those. See the "Membership" link for full description.

APTA members are encouraged to participate in, contribute to, and benefit from a myriad of programs, activities, and services.

The various transit agencies are paying them to do studies showing how rapid transit is a good thing. If they were independent of transit agencies, it sure would give them more credibility in my book.

Edited July 28, 2006 by musicman

[TheNiche]

Statistics from the American Public Transit Association, founded 1882

http://www.apta.com/research/info/online/land_use.cfm#lu5

Property Value Premiums for Transit-Oriented Development

I'm guessing an organization that's been around for 124 years and gathers stats and info from a wide array of universities and transit experts worldwide must have a clue of transit's affect on residential and business property values.

Ricco,

I can forsee a big increase in cut-through traffic if both proposals on Westhiemer are built. They should have run the line there, huh?

I can't stand it when statistics are mishandled. Although I'm on your side and think that LRT should go through AO, please note that the text that you quoted stated:

Across the country, transit-oriented development has significantly greater value than property not near transit.

AO is not transit-oriented. It is in fact an atypical recipient of mass transit and is not very compatible with it. For that reason, statistics of the sort that you cited are unlikely to apply to the neighborhood. I can understand very easily why AO residents aren't happy about it and why their property values or quality of life may be adversely impacted...especially if they don't get a stop along the route. Its not worth trying to justify otherwise...far better just to chalk them up as a social cost that will be absorbed by the benefit provided by the line to a greater number of people.

[nmainguy]

Sounds plausible however when you look who the American Public Transit Association is, it gives less creedence to their statements. Here is what the website says.

As a member of the American Public transportation Association (APTA), you are part of an international organization that has been representing the transit industry for over 100 years, since 1882. APTA members include public bus, rapid transit and commuter rail systems, and the private organizations responsible for planning, designing, constructing, financing, supplying and operating transit systems. APTA has six different categories of membership, and offers a "Basic option" to certain of those. See the "Membership" link for full description.

APTA members are encouraged to participate in, contribute to, and benefit from a myriad of programs, activities, and services.

The various transit agencies are paying them to do studies showing how rapid transit is a good thing. If they were independent of transit agencies, it sure would give them more credibility in my book.

I suppose they are just as fair as any other 124 year old non-profit. I also suppose they could eliminate all of their member categories, public and private but then they wouldn't exist:

APTA Member Categories

Regular US Transit Systems

Section 5310 & 5311 Transit Systems

Regular Canadian Transit Systems

Canadian Bus only Transit Systems

Transit Management Companies

Manufacturers and Suppliers

Consultants

Contractors

Non-Operating State DOTs

Metropolitan Planning Organizations

Government Agencies

Associated Railroads

High Speed Rail Authorities

New Transit Enterprises

International Transit Systems

DC Based Legislative Representatives

Transportation Management Associations

Publications

State Associations

Universities

Public Interest Groups

Vanpool/Carpool Providers

Land Developers

Single Professional Consultants

Retirees

If you have more credible sources, present them so there is at least a modicum of factual information.

[The Voice of University Oaks]

Had METRO really wanted to provide meaningful mass transit they would have left the rail that ran along Westpark and used real trains to move commuters from the West side suburbs into town.

That's probably why METRO purchased that ROW in the first place. The problem is that the Westpark ROW ends before it reaches downtown.

The existing tracks had to come up regardless. They were in poor condition.

[Highway6]

About this poll the Anti-richmond people are passing around.

I work on Richmond, and we received today at my office a stack of the polls to fill out if we wish.

It is worded

" What is your opinion about Metro's proposal to put light rail all the way down richmond avenue from main street to the galleria "

Then you can check one of the three...

* I am against light rail on richmond from main street to the galleria

* I am for light rail on richmond form main street to the galleria

* I am undecided

If it is "all the way"...

That seems very much worded in such a way to garner more "NO" responses.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Highway6

[AftonAg]

About this poll the Anti-richmond people are passing around.

I work on Richmond, and we received today at my office a stack of the polls to fill out if we wish.

It is worded

" What is your opinion about Metro's proposal to put light rail all the way down richmond avenue from main street to the galleria "

Then you can check one of the three...

* I am against light rail on richmond from main street to the galleria

* I am for light rail on richmond form main street to the galleria

* I am undecided

If it is "all the way"...

That seems very much worded in such a way to garner more "NO" responses.

Of course I am horribly biased, unscientific, etc ad nauseum but that wording IMO keeps it simple are you for rail on Richmond or against. AGAIN THAT WAS MY OPINION OF THE WORDING!

Perhaps you could suggest better wording? Something like:

Are you for or against rail on Richmond from Main to Kirby?

Are you for or against rail on Richmond from Kirby to the UP tracks?

Are you for or against rail from The UP tracks to Sage?

Do you live in Afton Oaks?

Do you want to see rail on Richmond through Afton Oaks just to irritate AftonAG?

Should all cars be replaced with light rail?

Will Light rail bring lasting peace to the Middle East?

Will light rail cure cancer?

Will light rail result in Peace and harmony between all mankind?

(Some of these are tongue in cheek)

That's probably why METRO purchased that ROW in the first place. The problem is that the Westpark ROW ends before it reaches downtown.

The existing tracks had to come up regardless. They were in poor condition.

I agree Voice - That likely was the original intent. And while Westpark does end short of downtown It would still have been able to move a lot of people to Greenway, perhaps then a light rail or bus on in to downtown, it would have made sense.

As for the condition of the tracks - I don't know, but even so they could have replaced the tracks I think the railbed itself was probably in good shape.

[nmainguy]

About this poll the Anti-richmond people are passing around.

I work on Richmond, and we received today at my office a stack of the polls to fill out if we wish.

It is worded

" What is your opinion about Metro's proposal to put light rail all the way down richmond avenue from main street to the galleria "

Then you can check one of the three...

* I am against light rail on richmond from main street to the galleria

* I am for light rail on richmond form main street to the galleria

* I am undecided

If it is "all the way"...

That seems very much worded in such a way to garner more "NO" responses.

Do you like spinich? Yes or No.Well...I like it raw but not cooked so I guess you could say...

I said: "Yes or No"

Well, I guess yes AND no.

See? You can't even answer an easy black and white question!!!

They left you a "stack"? So you can fill out as many as you want and submit them? Did they say it was a scientific poll because if they did, I've got some property in a brown field I'd like to talk to them about.

Edited July 28, 2006 by nmainguy

[AftonAg]

Once again, you take what I say either too personal or totally out of context.

The thing is that people in GENERAL have a tendency to just focus on their own little worlds or what's happening in their immediate neighborhoods. They don't go out, and if they venture out to visit friends, they won't venture out of the path they go to their destionation.

Hence the term "cocconing".

Your posting pattern on this system mimicks the behavior. If you truly cared about anything outside of your neighborhood, you would be more involved in the other threads, which in some way may or may not affect you.

and yes, as long as there is traffic on Richmond or Westhiemer or the loop, I will cut throuough your neighborhood. I will cut on westcreek, Mid lane, newcastle, and the streets behind the new strip center.

So I'll be sure to wave as I drive through. I might even honk occasionally so you can feel what the residences on richmond are like.

Ricco - I agree with you that people focus on their own little world's in general - it's human nature I guess. But as for the not going out, and only going to my destination and staying on that path you are incorrect, I am probably like you in that sense - I will veer off my intended course and just go exploring sometimes, or cut through neighborhoods if I am seriously bogged in traffic. As for the other threads I have looked around some here, and I have posted to one or two - "The exit on 610 South @ Hidalgo" was one I think, but this one has the most interest for me at the moment. As for the High Bridge or whatever it is I will pretend I am Ted Kennedy and drive off it when I get to it. (I don't care who you are that's funny right there!)

we have had quite a bit of dialogue - you don't have to honk, stop by for a glass of wine!

They left you a "stack"? So you can fill out as many as you want and submit them? Did they say it was a scientific poll because if they did, I've got some property in a brown field I'd like to talk to them about.

They left her a stack but the paper has a special quality it doesn't matter how they are filled out. Once in the envelope a chemical reaction marks the "correct responses". It's an old CIA trick we learned from GHW Bush.

[Highway6]

Of course I am horribly biased, unscientific, etc ad nauseum but that wording IMO keeps it simple are you for rail on Richmond or against. AGAIN THAT WAS MY OPINION OF THE WORDING!

Perhaps you could suggest better wording? Something like:

Are you for or against rail on Richmond from Main to Kirby?

Are you for or against rail on Richmond from Kirby to the UP tracks?

Are you for or against rail from The UP tracks to Sage?

Do you live in Afton Oaks?

Do you want to see rail on Richmond through Afton Oaks just to irritate AftonAG?

Should all cars be replaced with light rail?

Will Light rail bring lasting peace to the Middle East?

Will light rail cure cancer?

Will light rail result in Peace and harmony between all mankind?

(Some of these are tongue in cheek)

I agree Voice - That likely was the original intent. And while Westpark does end short of downtown It would still have been able to move a lot of people to Greenway, perhaps then a light rail or bus on in to downtown, it would have made sense.

As for the condition of the tracks - I don't know, but even so they could have replaced the tracks I think the railbed itself was probably in good shape.

It shouldnt simply ask though if someone is pro rail on richmond or against it....

You simply could have added one line

*I believe rail should partly be on Richmond.

or gotten rid of the threree choices on it and said

*I believe Richmond should be open for rail consideration.

Check yes or no !!

ITs not a simple yeah or nay...

They left you a "stack"? So you can fill out as many as you want and submit them? Did they say it was a scientific poll because if they did, I've got some property in a brown field I'd like to talk to them about.

No main.. they left our office a stack... i assume they asked our receptionist how many we needed.

And the poll at least wasn't blind... they asked for your name and the address of where you work or live on Richmond.

I would hope since its a poll of those on Richmond, they are throwing out those that left the identity part blank.. but knowing this group.. i wouldnt be surprised if they had one of their kindergarten daughters filling out 1000 with the "correct" blank filled out.

[nmainguy]

No main.. they left our office a stack...

I meant the universal "you"

So? Do you like spinich? Yes or No?

[AftonAg]

It shouldnt simply ask though if someone is pro rail on richmond or against it....

You simply could have added one line

*I believe rail should partly be on Richmond.

or gotten rid of the threree choices on it and said

*I believe Richmond should be open for rail consideration.

Check yes or no !!

ITs not a simple yeah or nay...

No main.. they left our office a stack... i assume they asked our receptionist how many we needed.

And the poll at least wasn't blind... they asked for your name and the address of where you work or live on Richmond.

I would hope since its a poll of those on Richmond, they are throwing out those that left the identity part blank.. but knowing this group.. i wouldnt be surprised if they had one of their kindergarten daughters filling out 1000 with the "correct" blank filled out.

I agree on adding the line for Richmond being open for consideration. I am still confused though the ballot way back when said the "Westpark Corridor". Just exactly what are the boundaries of the "Westpark Corridor" where METRO is concerned? This question was asked in some of the early meetings but never answered concisely by METRO, at least not at any of the meetings that I attended. I believe that most of the voters thought they new what the Westpark Corridor was at that time. So is it Westheimer to Bellaire Boulevard or TBD?

You feel that you "know this group" huh? I don't think so. You have your stereotype as fostered by some of the posters on this forum, and maybe some general impressions gathered at the meetings, where you must admit passions were running high, and you disagreed with the "Afton Oaks crowd" which made them easier to disdain. I believe that my neighbors are good people, no one is perfect. Have you ever sat down one on one with a resident of Afton Oaks? I think you would be surprised to find out that we aren't so different from you, we are after all both committed to our cause.

Why do you insist on casting us as evil, nefarious types? Is it simply because we disagree and you can not rise above the level of contempt to one of agreeing to disagree?

[musicman]

I suppose they are just as fair as any other 124 year old non-profit. I also suppose they could eliminate all of their member categories, public and private but then they wouldn't exist:

I just read the bylaws...i didn't see anything about being a non-profit. they are definitely concerned about receiving money. look at the portion of the bylaws that concerns non payment of dues.

ARREARS

To provide for those instances where a member becomes in arrears in the payment of fees or dues, the Executive Committee may establish such rules as are necessary for the suspension of a member, the forfeiture of the right to vote, and automatic expulsion.

i'm simply saying that it is difficult to use this as a source since they are being paid by the various transit systems and other members. In my book this is called being biased.

i also put in non-profit in their search page and it didn't come up with anything that said the organization was non profit.

It is just hard to believe that a transit organization that is being paid by various transit systems and universities to perform studies wouldn't be biased in favor of those organizations. what is the saying about the fox guarding the hen house?

I also saw this on the messsage from the Chairman

The Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act

Edited July 29, 2006 by musicman

[Highway6]

Why do you insist on casting us as evil, nefarious types? Is it simply because we disagree and you can not rise above the level of contempt to one of agreeing to disagree?

Because you believe the part is more important than the whole.

Simple truth is growth will always hurt someone... some temporarily, some permanent... and in the grand scheme of the whole, the city, your petty not in my backyard feelings don't matter to me or to the city as a whole.

You, nor anyone I've talked to from your group, have given any good reason as to why another route is better than richmond for this partular line in trying to accomplish what its trying to do.

All the reasons have been

a ) but you have no right to be considering it in the first place. ("It's Westpark, stupid")

b ) but we'll suffer. (ooo, we might close down or ooo we might lose 3' of grass)

Both are greedy, and neither merit anymore serious response or dialogue.

I've not seen one reason from your type actually giving a reason against Richmond, as far the the city transit system as a whole is concerned.

I've not seen one reason why westpark would be better, other than westpark isn't richmond.

Yes, i believe metro should make it as painless as conceivably possible, but ultimately, i believe the concerns and benefits of the common good should outweigh a group of individuals.

You and your evil, nefarious group are not being constructive in making the transit system better, nor trying to be, therefore you are just in the way.

Edited July 29, 2006 by Highway6

[nmainguy]

I just read the bylaws...i didn't see anything about being a non-profit.

Most professional organizations are non-profit-and many have lobbiests to lobby for their particular intrests. They exist to serve their chosen fields i.e. the ABA-law; JCHAO-hospitals; AMA-the list goes on; most require dues or membership fees.

http://www.aptastandards.com/APTAStandards...36/Default.aspx

"APTA is a nonprofit international association of over 1,500 public and private member organizations including transit systems and commuter rail operators; planning, design, construction and finance firms; product and service providers; academic institutions, transit associations and state departments of transportation. APTA members serve the public interest by providing safe, efficient and economical transit services and products. Over ninety percent of persons using public transportation in the United States and Canada are served by APTA members."

If you'd like to dispute or agree with any of their findings, feel free. If all your concerned with is discrediting them then that's fine as well.

they are definitely concerned about receiving money

Of course they're concerned about money. What does any non-profit operate on?

Edited July 29, 2006 by nmainguy

[MexAmerican_Moose]

just my input-

i drove down fannin yesterday in the TMC....all of the stations were packed and the trains looked full to capacity....so i guess that all of those antirail supporters a few years ago were wrong about the Main Street Line not having enough potential ridership. What really bothers me though are all of these prorail guys and gals that are supposedly in support of mass transit yet do not want it to be built near their neighborhoods. As this city grows and becomes denser, mass transit should play an important role in helping this city's congestion problems. subways could not work and i heard that elevated trains are really expensive when compared to Light Rail

[Transit Nut]

In case you didn't see it, an article about richmondrail.org:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/hei...ws/4074619.html

Another article in the Heights/Neartown section:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/hei...ws/4072405.html

If you support richmondrail.org's efforts, they will be having a "Get Out the Support" weekend, as stated in their e-mail:

"Get Out the Support" Weekend

We need help to hand out flyers and collect more petition support. Join us in what should be a great way to get involved!

Spend as much or as little time with us as you can, the more people the better. Bring a friend!

* SATURDAY: July 29th, 9:30am

* WHERE: We will meet at Mission Burrito on 2245 West Alabama, 77098.

* SUNDAY: If you can't make Saturday, then join us on Sunday at 3:30pm

* WHERE: We will meet at the Hermann Park "miniature railroad", near the Houston Zoo entrance. At some point in the day we will end at the corner of 610 and Richmond.

Meet initially at the above locations to get flyers, signs, paper petitions, divide up assignments, and rally our energy! From the above starting points we will spread out into local neighborhoods, key retail areas, and Richmond Avenue itself. If you miss us at starting points, then don't let that stop you; drive around and you will find us with our signs ... and join in!

Come join us. Folks who have already done this type of activity have gotten VERY POSITIVE feedback and uplifting support from those who see or meet us. As with all such activities, please be safe and do NOT enter the streets or hangout in the street medians. Stay on the sidewalks.

If you have questions, contact: support@richmondrail.org

[musicman]

just my input-

i drove down fannin yesterday in the TMC....all of the stations were packed and the trains looked full to capacity....so i guess that all of those antirail supporters a few years ago were wrong about the Main Street Line not having enough potential ridership. What really bothers me though are all of these prorail guys and gals that are supposedly in support of mass transit yet do not want it to be built near their neighborhoods. As this city grows and becomes denser, mass transit should play an important role in helping this city's congestion problems. subways could not work and i heard that elevated trains are really expensive when compared to Light Rail

Yes Mass Transit should play an important role. We just need the best designed system we can afford which actually does alleviate a few problems. In my opinion, the worst problem is the travel time from one end to another which is basically as a result of the design. It is running at the same travel time as the buses it replaced. My hope would have been to cut the 30 min travel time to 20 minutes. This would result in less travel times which would attract the rider that won't ride the bus cause the travel times are currently too long. It is this type of NEW rider that mass transit in Houston needs.

METRO eliminated multiple bus routes and the medical center also eliminated their outlying lot buses which results in instant ridership. There is LOTS of potential NEW ridership in Houston for a system that WILL SAVE THE RIDERS TIME. At the same time you have to minimize disturbances in the current traffic by having dedicated right of ways in areas of particular congestion. If that means elevating the train in certain areas, then let's do it so that it will result in faster travel times. If the new system has the same travel times as the current bus system, it won't gain the NEW ridership that METRO is striving for.

nmainguy....sorry i couldn't repond directly to your response cause your last post freezes up my machine so i'll include it here

"Most professional organizations are non-profit-and many have lobbiests to lobby for their particular intrests. They exist to serve their chosen fields" I agree 100 % with your statements. I am aware what the varying lobby groups do. It would just be better if there was a neutral organization who did the data gathering instead of one who is lobbying the government for transit money. It's kind of like the insurance industry using facts generated by lobbyists for the insurance companies to determine that rates need to be raised. They are ALWAYS going to do what the insurance industry wants. It is the perception that I disagree with.

Edited July 29, 2006 by musicman

[nmainguy]

nmainguy....sorry i couldn't repond directly to your response cause your last post freezes up

I just read the bylaws...i didn't see anything about being a non-profit.

Most professional organizations are non-profit-and many have lobbiests to lobby for their particular intrests. They exist to serve their chosen fields i.e. the ABA-law; JCHAO-hospitals; AMA-the list goes on; most require dues or membership fees.

http://www.aptastandards.com/APTAStandards...36/Default.aspx

"APTA is a nonprofit international association of over 1,500 public and private member organizations including transit systems and commuter rail operators; planning, design, construction and finance firms; product and service providers; academic institutions, transit associations and state departments of transportation. APTA members serve the public interest by providing safe, efficient and economical transit services and products. Over ninety percent of persons using public transportation in the United States and Canada are served by APTA members."

If you'd like to dispute or agree with any of their findings, feel free. If all your concerned with is discrediting them then that's fine as well.

they are definitely concerned about receiving money

Of course they're concerned about money. What does any non-profit operate on?

[AftonAg]

Because you believe the part is more important than the whole.

Simple truth is growth will always hurt someone... some temporarily, some permanent... and in the grand scheme of the whole, the city, your petty not in my backyard feelings don't matter to me or to the city as a whole.

You, nor anyone I've talked to from your group, have given any good reason as to why another route is better than richmond for this partular line in trying to accomplish what its trying to do.

All the reasons have been

a ) but you have no right to be considering it in the first place. ("It's Westpark, stupid")

b ) but we'll suffer. (ooo, we might close down or ooo we might lose 3' of grass)

Both are greedy, and neither merit anymore serious response or dialogue.

I've not seen one reason from your type actually giving a reason against Richmond, as far the the city transit system as a whole is concerned.

I've not seen one reason why westpark would be better, other than westpark isn't richmond.

Yes, i believe metro should make it as painless as conceivably possible, but ultimately, i believe the concerns and benefits of the common good should outweigh a group of individuals.

You and your evil, nefarious group are not being constructive in making the transit system better, nor trying to be, therefore you are just in the way.

We have give plenty of good reasons. But since the rail will not impact YOUR life in the same way that will impact ours you dismiss them as not good enough. Well they are plenty good enough for us and we will continue to fight having this "solution" forced down our throats. The construction on Richmond will be far more than an inconvenience to those of us that live here and have to deal with all of it 24/7. METRO says that it will be constructed in segments with each segment taking 180 days to build. That's 6 months per segment. If you think that traffic will only be affected at the segment that is under construction you are wrong. It will affect traffic in both directions for a mile before the segment at least. That will have a negative impact on the businesses along Richmond where you say you work. It is my sincere hope that if this comes to fruition that you are the first one laidoff by your business for the construction period downsizing. That would be poetic justice. You see to be full of hate for those of us that don't share your opinion.