METRORail University Line

[bachanon]

so.........the rail should take a huge detour to the south of afton oaks, costing millions of dollars more, so that your front door isn't disturbed? at some point, private property rights have to take a back seat. i'm a conservative republican; however, there are some things that require "grander" considerations.

i'm sorry, but if rail was coming to my neighborhood, i would bite the bullet and know that there are better things going on. besides, it could benefit afton oaks. progress is never easy.

[ricco67]

so.........the rail should take a huge detour to the south of afton oaks, costing millions of dollars more, so that your front door isn't disturbed? at some point, private property rights have to take a back seat. i'm a conservative republican; however, there are some things that require "grander" considerations.

i'm sorry, but if rail was coming to my neighborhood, i would bite the bullet and know that there are better things going on. besides, it could benefit afton oaks. progress is never easy.

I would equate that to the massive waste of money that was putting 59 into the trench just so a few residences don't have a freeway looming over them while the only improvement was made was the addition of the HOV lane (which was needed) and the spur needed to be rebuilt (also needed).

If the original plan was stated, MILLIONS of dollars and several months off the project would have been saved.

[IHB2]

I was asked to talk with my neighbors about an alternate route that turned at Weslayan or the UP tracks and went to Westpark - my informal poll indicates that my neighbors would be in favor of that route over the RIchmond route.

interesting. thanks for asking.

[KinkaidAlum]

AftonAg-

You like to claim that your property values will diminish if light rail goes through Afton Oaks. When people throw stats at you that show that the light rail in Houston has caused property values to rise, you discount them. When they show you that light rail has added value to homes in other U.S. cities, you say you can't compare apples and oranges. However, can you show me where a light rail line has caused a neighborhood's overall values to decrease? I'd like to see one. Just one!

Edited July 24, 2006 by KinkaidAlum

[nmainguy]

Why does the rail ever need to cross 59 at all - let's just keep it on that side of the freeway all the way to Hillcroft. Okay not feasible you say and I am inclined to agree - but turning at the UP line is a compromise that I think most Afton Oaks residents could live with, and it would also provide that economic boost to the Westpark corridor that it sorely needs. The 59 & 610 intersection is a no-brainer - run the darn train right down the middle of Westpark like they want to do on Richmond.

Ricco - thanks for the first two words of your post - feel free to repeat them as often as you can.

If it's to go to the Hillcroft Transit Center then it has to cross 59 whether it be over or under.

Therefore that route entails crossing 59 twice-once before AO and at Hillcroft..

My ultimate wish is that it goes through AO with no stations thus furnishing the most efficient route and ridership. I firmly believe your property rates will rise and you will become an even more desirable neighborhood.

You didn't reply to the link I gave you showing the Newcastle intersection and cross-section.

Do you still have a problem with that? I really don't know what else METRO could do beyond that senario.

BTW, I don't think Culberson is intrested in "greasing the skids"-unless they are his own.

[IHB2]

If it's to go to the Hillcroft Transit Center then it has to cross 59 whether it be over or under.

of the 2 UC choices now available, the LRT would not have to cross 59 if it stayed on Richmond all the way to Chimney Rock, or evn better, through the Richmond Strip to Fountainview or Greenridge, then turned south and followed the 59 curve to the HTC.

that would add the benefit of connecting the food/entertainment venues in the Strip to other activity centers, and even eminent domain requirements on Greenridge to the feeder wouldn't have powerful opponents.

what about the Westpark ROW?

METRO builds a serious 4 lane bike trail w/separated walking/running "HOV" lanes from the HTC to Shepherd, complete w/ shaded water stations.

[GovernorAggie]

AftonAg-

You like to claim that your property values will diminish if light rail goes through Afton Oaks. When people throw stats at you that show that the light rail in Houston has caused property values to rise, you discount them. When they show you that light rail has added value to homes in other U.S. cities, you say you can't compare apples and oranges. However, can you show me where a light rail line has caused a neighborhood's overall values to decrease? I'd like to see one. Just one!

KinkaidAlum - Shouldn't he provide information on a Houston neighborhood's declining property values due to rail?

[skwatra]

the problem is - there are no neighborhoods in Houston that the current light rail goes through that are comparable to AO for a basis on what will happen to property values there.

not enough data out there to cause anyone to veer from what they already believe...

[GovernorAggie]

I know. That comment was in jest in response to his desire to see land value effects of rail in Houston only.

[AftonAg]

the problem is - there are no neighborhoods in Houston that the current light rail goes through that are comparable to AO for a basis on what will happen to property values there.

not enough data out there to cause anyone to veer from what they already believe...

skwatra - thanks - you made my point more succintly, and more eloquently than I could have ever hoped to.

AftonAg-

You like to claim that your property values will diminish if light rail goes through Afton Oaks. When people throw stats at you that show that the light rail in Houston has caused property values to rise, you discount them. When they show you that light rail has added value to homes in other U.S. cities, you say you can't compare apples and oranges. However, can you show me where a light rail line has caused a neighborhood's overall values to decrease? I'd like to see one. Just one!

Ok KinkaidAlum - heres another route to consider - maybe it will be the next one. . . . how about right down Memorial - rightpast Kinkaid all the way to Katy - plenty of ridership there, A nice scenic route for the berb folks and you could spur off all along the way to the Galleria, the Richmond Strip, Hillcroft park & Ride, etc, etc, etc. Think your neighbors will go for a little inconvenience on Memorial/Woodway. The route could go all the way downtown, and spur off and seve the Heights area too. That is a route I could support, along with canoes on the Bayou of course.

KinkaidAlum - Shouldn't he provide information on a Houston neighborhood's declining property values due to rail?

Gig'em governor Aggie - first let me say that Rick Perry is a friend of mine and you are no Rick Perry. I will be happy to provide data if Metro runs the line through AO, and if the data proves me wrong I will eat crow - if it proves you wrong I suppose you will do the same?

This is not intended as a jab but if you speculated stations would be on the sides of the streets instead of in the medians, then you haven't really looked at all the information.

I think the majority of the people I've spoken with on and off this board-pro and con-were aware the LRT is to be on the esplanade side of the street thus no homes in AO would be destroyed.

Fair enough Nmain - I have looked at the information but I just don't think there is enough room in the median for a station, of course perhaps these stations aren't as big as they appear in the renderings.

I would equate that to the massive waste of money that was putting 59 into the trench just so a few residences don't have a freeway looming over them while the only improvement was made was the addition of the HOV lane (which was needed) and the spur needed to be rebuilt (also needed).

If the original plan was stated, MILLIONS of dollars and several months off the project would have been saved.

God forbid that a government entity ever waste tax dollars. That is the only thing most of them excel at. besides this isn't the 59 freeway ricco - its just a teeny little light rail - or so you make it sound when it is coming through my neighborhood, and Westpark is actually pretty close to Richmond at the rail - maybe 1 kilometer?

AO, you seem to ignore quite a bit of my comment in post #744.

Also, you fail to mention if the residences of A-oaks feel about the other development that that will impact your neighborhood even more.

nor even if it ever occured to the residences to put in a traffic light on Newcastle @ Richmond.

Ricco - you will need to give me more than 15 minutes to get those answers, perhaps we should start a new thread on those items. . . . I will get back to you when I have a chance to talk to my neighbors. I believe we have been trying to get that light for some time but CoH is wary as they don't want to add another light on this highly travelled route - it is need though.

Edited July 24, 2006 by AftonAg

[Jeebus]

AftonAg - just give up.

"Resistance is futile.."

[nmainguy]

Fair enough Nmain - I have looked at the information but I just don't think there is enough room in the median for a station, of course perhaps these stations aren't as big as they appear in the renderings.

Look again.

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Univ...1806.125073.pdf

page 8, page 11, page 18 all show stations within the esplanade.

Page 23 shows all work being done within the existing R.O.W.

Time after time you are given information, evidence and facts but you choose to cherry-pick to support your dwindling opinions.

Frankly you have become tiresome and tedious in your stubbornness.

[musicman]

Look again.

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Univ...1806.125073.pdf

page 8, page 11, page 18 all show stations within the esplanade.

Page 23 shows all work being done within the existing R.O.W.

On the Alabama Burkett pages, it looks like the engineering description shows two vehicular lanes but the artists description shows one lane. At the Richmond and Newcastle area, the engineering description shows 3 lanes while the artists rendition definitely goes to two lanes in the distance (the right lane disappears in the rendition). Is METRO promising to keep the same number of lanes and yet take up no more ROW? I am just not understanding how that is possible.

[nmainguy]

On the Alabama Burkett pages, it looks like the engineering description shows two vehicular lanes but the artists description shows one lane. At the Richmond and Newcastle area, the engineering description shows 3 lanes while the artists rendition definitely goes to two lanes in the distance (the right lane disappears in the rendition). Is METRO promising to keep the same number of lanes and yet take up no more ROW? I am just not understanding how that is possible.

The cross-section on page 9 shows 2 lanes in each direction on Alabama.

BTW, I was on Richmond through AO this afternoon and there is clealy room for 6 lanes of traffic, 2 lines of rail and an esplanade.

As far as R.O.W., METRO and/or the city can use it in any manner they choose. It's public property, not private. On the Alabama and Montrose cross-sections, they show METRO taking 6' on one side. On the Edloe and Newcastle cross-sections, they show taking none.

[KinkaidAlum]

Actually, there are neighborhoods in Houston that have homes that are worth quite a bit more than Afton Oaks that the current light rail runs right next to.

I haven't seen a crash in Boulevard Oaks, Southampton, or Shadyside.

Just South of Rice University lies Southgate. Southgate is every bit as nice as Afton Oaks and home prices there have risen steadily over the past 5 years.

The Museum District has definitely seen a rise in property values.

As for putting a light rail line infront of Kinkaid...I'd be all for it as long as there was funding for it. That said, it would be quite stupid to put light rail that far outside of the Loop in a low density area. There are no major business centers West of Voss along San Felipe/Briar Forest. There's no Galleria to connect to. Or a Richmond Strip.

I don't get your point other than you just trying to throw some garbage out there since you CANNOT provide any evidence that your home's value will decrease.

[GovernorAggie]

Gig'em governor Aggie - first let me say that Rick Perry is a friend of mine and you are no Rick Perry. I will be happy to provide data if Metro runs the line through AO, and if the data proves me wrong I will eat crow - if it proves you wrong I suppose you will do the same?

I'm no Rick Perry? How do you know?

Seriously though, I may not by Gov. Rick, however, I hope to have his office someday, hence the name. As far as providing data and eating crow...I got no problem admitting when I'm wrong. In fact, I am going to even admit that even if METRO doesn't come through AO, values will increase due to the famous statement "location, location, location". I will also admit that if LRT comes through AO, values won't increase b/c of the rail alone, since it won't exist in a vacuum. Your property will probably increase more in the short-term due to the WestCreek and High Street developments. Like I said in a previous post, it's your kids and grandkids that might see the biggest jump due to rail. But that's fine right? Legacy-building, IMO.

I don't think you would have a problem admitting being wrong either AA, but I'm curious as to what the argument will be then. Will it be, "Values increased BUT not as much due to rail" or "Values increased the same rate BUT this was despite the rail" or will you be able to admit that rail had no effect or a positive effect?

Short story of cutting off your nose to spite your face. In Alabama, my home state, if I'm not mistaken, years ago, there was a desire to place a significant regional airport in the southern states. IIRC, that site was to be Birmingham. Birmingham didn't want it, so it went to Atlanta. The rest, as they say, is history.

Another example, my very hometown in Alabama was supposed to have an interstate highway (I-20) run right through it. They fought it and sent it to another town just over the border. Today that little town (sprawlsville that it is) is home to a 700,000+ sf shopping mall (large for a town of 18,000 and a county of 115,000), several other retail options, and has probably doubled in population in 10 years. It has been able to take advantage of its position halfway between two significant cities (location again!) and gain from it.

Now, maybe Afton Oaks today wants to stay the same, but I think that a point comes when staying the same becomes moving backwards. Can you imagine if the City decided to keep the water/sewer systems the same always? Or the pavement the same always? And so on?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

The Afton Oaks mantra is tiered and stale. Put the rail line down Richmond and call it a day. More people will be better served that way, period. Dont think so, look at 288!!! Went right smack through SEVERAL neighborhoods and disrupted the lives of some people, but the greater good was served by all. What has really soured me on the AO crowd is the claims by SOME of them that they may be above public transportation since they are in a higher tax bracket. I have news for you, my tax bracket is high as well and i dont use that as an excuse to deny greater and better mobility to those that will rely on it more in the present as well as the future long after i am dead and buried. If we were to get LRT on FM 1960 west with a link to IAH, i would use it most frequently. If the rail system were in my neighborhood, i would be more inclined to use it over my car. Im no fan of busses but i will ride a train anyday of the week. If this form of positive progress is upsetting the AO crowd so much, theres medication and padded cells for that!

[ricco67]

Ricco - you will need to give me more than 15 minutes to get those answers, perhaps we should start a new thread on those items. . . . I will get back to you when I have a chance to talk to my neighbors. I believe we have been trying to get that light for some time but CoH is wary as they don't want to add another light on this highly travelled route - it is need though.

Post #744 is more than a week old, so I suggest you read it accordingly.

But Im' also sorry to see that you simply are staying to the same argument and not budging your position on it in spite of any (or denial) of facts that are offered as well as where you could try to compare apples to apples, but apparently you're just not willing to compared McIntosh's to a gold delicious. Both are apples, just different species.

[Dream]

There is a duplex on the corner of Fannin and Wentworth and the Red Line Metro Rail runs 10 feet from their front door. Their is a traffic light there and I've seen and heard the train come by this property. I've also seen the endless for lease signs on Fannin residential properities on this section of the rail line. These people deal with serious train noise, congestion, a construction nightmare, and the home values must have fallen. You couldn't pay me to live in this house or the one across the street. Because of what I've seen here I understand why the people in Afton Oaks are freaking out.

Also, I'm looking for some space in a shopping center inside the loop and guess what I told my realtor, NOTHING ON RICHMOND. I saw what happenen on Main St. and I don't believe Metro. Business will suffer, the war zone will return. Anyway, where are all of those new businesses and economic boom that the Red Line was supposed to bring to Main Street. Riding the current rail is kind of depressing.

Dream

[AftonAg]

Look again.

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Univ...1806.125073.pdf

page 8, page 11, page 18 all show stations within the esplanade.

Page 23 shows all work being done within the existing R.O.W.

Time after time you are given information, evidence and facts but you choose to cherry-pick to support your dwindling opinions.

Frankly you have become tiresome and tedious in your stubbornness.

"Unless of course the stations are not as big as they appear in the renderings" was there some part of that quot that you didn't understand? I respect your opinion, but I do not agree that I am tirsome or tedious, I merely do not AGREE with you, do you characterize all who don't agree with you as tiresome and tedious or have you saved that designation for me?

Apparently I am not alone nmain - probably a huge surprise to you and the rest of the Richmond Railroaders that TSU does not favor the Wheeler Avenue line which leads to Richmond . . . . what stubborn, tiresome and tedious bunch they are.

There is a duplex on the corner of Fannin and Wentworth and the Red Line Metro Rail runs 10 feet from their front door. Their is a traffic light there and I've seen and heard the train come by this property. I've also seen the endless for lease signs on Fannin residential properities on this section of the rail line. These people deal with serious train noise, congestion, a construction nightmare, and the home values must have fallen. You couldn't pay me to live in this house or the one across the street. Because of what I've seen here I understand why the people in Afton Oaks are freaking out.

Also, I'm looking for some space in a shopping center inside the loop and guess what I told my realtor, NOTHING ON RICHMOND. I saw what happenen on Main St. and I don't believe Metro. Business will suffer, the war zone will return. Anyway, where are all of those new businesses and economic boom that the Red Line was supposed to bring to Main Street. Riding the current rail is kind of depressing.

Dream

Am I dreaming??????

Just for the record - I did not change re-register under another name - LOL -

Careful there dream you are about to be inundated by angry pro railers!

Post #744 is more than a week old, so I suggest you read it accordingly.

But Im' also sorry to see that you simply are staying to the same argument and not budging your position on it in spite of any (or denial) of facts that are offered as well as where you could try to compare apples to apples, but apparently you're just not willing to compared McIntosh's to a gold delicious. Both are apples, just different species.

Sooo that's it? I haven't heard one piece of evidence that is absolutely convincing on any of the points I have raised, but because you & Nmain say so I should just concede? Well gosh I didn't know that was how it worked, I am glad I have you to tell me when I am convinced Ricco - I may come back on tonight, but I will spend the rest of the day going door to door in Afton Oaks telling my neighbors that "Ricco says it's over, and we should give up our opposition to rail on Richmond".

Nice try . . . . .

I'm no Rick Perry? How do you know?

Seriously though, I may not by Gov. Rick, however, I hope to have his office someday, hence the name. As far as providing data and eating crow...I got no problem admitting when I'm wrong. In fact, I am going to even admit that even if METRO doesn't come through AO, values will increase due to the famous statement "location, location, location". I will also admit that if LRT comes through AO, values won't increase b/c of the rail alone, since it won't exist in a vacuum. Your property will probably increase more in the short-term due to the WestCreek and High Street developments. Like I said in a previous post, it's your kids and grandkids that might see the biggest jump due to rail. But that's fine right? Legacy-building, IMO.

I don't think you would have a problem admitting being wrong either AA, but I'm curious as to what the argument will be then. Will it be, "Values increased BUT not as much due to rail" or "Values increased the same rate BUT this was despite the rail" or will you be able to admit that rail had no effect or a positive effect?

Short story of cutting off your nose to spite your face. In Alabama, my home state, if I'm not mistaken, years ago, there was a desire to place a significant regional airport in the southern states. IIRC, that site was to be Birmingham. Birmingham didn't want it, so it went to Atlanta. The rest, as they say, is history.

Another example, my very hometown in Alabama was supposed to have an interstate highway (I-20) run right through it. They fought it and sent it to another town just over the border. Today that little town (sprawlsville that it is) is home to a 700,000+ sf shopping mall (large for a town of 18,000 and a county of 115,000), several other retail options, and has probably doubled in population in 10 years. It has been able to take advantage of its position halfway between two significant cities (location again!) and gain from it.

Now, maybe Afton Oaks today wants to stay the same, but I think that a point comes when staying the same becomes moving backwards. Can you imagine if the City decided to keep the water/sewer systems the same always? Or the pavement the same always? And so on?

OK Gov - you have my vote for governor when you run, but we can still disagree on the rail issue. If it comes to pass and I am wrong and rail increases the value of homes in Afton Oaks it will be difficult to quantify. I would suggest that we look at it as a straight % gain over the years befor rail - (averaged of course) versus the first full year of rail existence - if what you are saying is true the increase should be immediate, and might even happen when the final rail route is announced.

"true to each other as Aggies will be"

[musicman]

Also, I'm looking for some space in a shopping center inside the loop and guess what I told my realtor, NOTHING ON RICHMOND. I saw what happenen on Main St. and I don't believe Metro. Business will suffer, the war zone will return. Anyway, where are all of those new businesses and economic boom that the Red Line was supposed to bring to Main Street. Riding the current rail is kind of depressing.

Dream

The only new construction (along the rail) from downtown to the museum area has basically been governmental agencies. HCC built a garage at Elgin. Otherwise new construction has been nonexistent. Go between Holman and Alabama, it looks like a war zone. I know two of my favorite businesses in this area were forced to move away from Main due to the construction. Frankel's and Wadler Kaplan Music store both stated publicly that business was hurt so much they were forced to move. Both Main St locations remain empty.

[AftonAg]

The only new construction (along the rail) from downtown to the museum area has basically been governmental agencies. HCC built a garage at Elgin. Otherwise new construction has been nonexistent. Go between Holman and Alabama, it looks like a war zone. I know two of my favorite businesses in this area were forced to move away from Main due to the construction. Frankel's and Wadler Kaplan Music store both stated publicly that business was hurt so much they were forced to move. Both Main St locations remain empty.

Thanks for that post music - some real data on real businesses, negatively impacted by construction. Despite many of the postings after my comments about the construction having a negative impact on businesses on the route it seems some real examples have surfaced. Neither tiresome nor tedious, and supportive of my comments and position - seems like a trend has begun in this thread. . . . . HCC built a garage I bet that is some beautiful architecture, nice eye candy for the rail patrons.

[AftonAg]

The Afton Oaks mantra is tiered and stale. Put the rail line down Richmond and call it a day. More people will be better served that way, period. Dont think so, look at 288!!! Went right smack through SEVERAL neighborhoods and disrupted the lives of some people, but the greater good was served by all. What has really soured me on the AO crowd is the claims by SOME of them that they may be above public transportation since they are in a higher tax bracket. I have news for you, my tax bracket is high as well and i dont use that as an excuse to deny greater and better mobility to those that will rely on it more in the present as well as the future long after i am dead and buried. If we were to get LRT on FM 1960 west with a link to IAH, i would use it most frequently. If the rail system were in my neighborhood, i would be more inclined to use it over my car. Im no fan of busses but i will ride a train anyday of the week. If this form of positive progress is upsetting the AO crowd so much, theres medication and padded cells for that!

Houston - you don't have to agree with me, and obviously you don't, but since there aren't likely to be ANY stops in the Afton Oaks neighborhood it wouldn't make sense for me to use the rail. I would have to take my vehicle (it is a pick-up) to a train station, and leave it to board the train. Please explain to me how that is faster or more convenient than just driving on to my destination. I have never claimed to be above public transportation for any reason. I have seen numerous comparisons of the Richmond rail to 288 and I am having trouble getting the comparison - anyone with a car can get on 288 via the feeders and on ramps - this isn't the case with the rail on Richmond through Afton Oaks. Once again we see that when the pro railers find someone that doesn't agree and won't knuckle under to their side they resort to a pointless verbal attack - medication and padded cells, really - is it possible for you to disagree without being disagreeable?

Good to know HAIF now has a validaterer...kinda like our very own Bushie the Deciderer.

BTW, you might want to get the doc to look at that sepcial...it can creep up on ya.

nmain - I didn't see this earlier but you have stooped to a new low - surely you can do better than calling out spelling errors, or bashing Bush, never mind I wouldn't want you to see me as tedious or tiresome . . .

[Highway6]

Houston - you don't have to agree with me, and obviously you don't, but since there aren't likely to be ANY stops in the Afton Oaks neighborhood it wouldn't make sense for me to use the rail. I would have to take my vehicle (it is a pick-up) to a train station, and leave it to board the train.

After all the @#%@$$ Afton Oaks residences have given METRO, why would they reward that area with a station.

I hope not only does METRO run strait down Richmond all the way, becasue that makes the most sense, but perhaps orginally there was a station slated for say Newcastle and Metro changed their mind

" !#@@%!@$ them.. they wanna give us @#%@$@ and derail the entire line ?!?! Okay, take their station off the table... that'll teach them.. one day !! "

[GovernorAggie]

You know, a quick history lesson is in store. I heard that this debate is very similar to the Georgetown-WMATA debate for a DC subway line. End result, no station was placed in Georgetown then. Now, apparently residents of Georgetown are wondering why there's no station there. Could be a good Google search.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I have seen numerous comparisons of the Richmond rail to 288 and I am having trouble getting the comparison - . .

Very good. Now that you have seen the comparisons maybe you can understand why i think the AO crowd is a bit off thier rockers in fighting LRT. The people in those NUMEROUS neighborhoods affected by 288 coming through actually lost many homes, tons of trees and had multiple streets cut off from one side to the other. How many homes will be lost on Richmond due to LRT? How many actual families will be uprooted from thier homes and thrown into the street because of LRT on Richmond? METRO officials meeting with the AO crowd should be paid overtime to sit and listen to a group of mostly ageing individuals that are stuck in the "me and my" syndrome without giving a merry damn for others that are outside the AO community, mainly the city of Houston, in general, which will benefit GREATLY from LRT. I personally think we as a city should be OUTWARDLY ASHAMED for not having LRT all over the major population and business centers in the city. This isnt some backwater swamp town anymore, its a bustling metropolis thats ever growing. With the population projection of the near and distant future, LRT is needed and Richmond is the BEST avenue for it!

[ricco67]

Forgive me if I'm posting this again, there has been so much activity on this thread that it's hard to remember what articles have been put up for discussion on here.

according to the article in today's chronicle, there seems to be some concerns along the eastern side of the University line.

according to the article, they seem to have an issue about the train cutting through the middle of the campus. While I wasn't aware that TSU was expanding south of wheeler, the arguments they have on there I think are rather absurd.

In one quote they say that "Wheeler was closed because students kept getting hit by cars," as far as driving around campuses goes, this is more to the idiot drivers, especially young ones that seem to be the habit in an open campus such as this. However, the next statement by the same person, "Students would have to cross the rail line to get to classes and I'm not too thrilled to have to wait on a train."

Sorry, seems to me that waiting about a minute to cross the campus from one side to another doesn't seem like too much of a hardship.

however, there seems to be a significant amount of support from one of the community leaders, while at the same time having his own concerns which he eventually concludes with (to paraphrase) "residents are willing to compromise rather than miss out on the economic boon light rail would bring to the community.

One of the quotes I heard in the meeting yesterday was, "The train already killed two people and I don't want it killing a student."

I was appalled that they thought their students so dense that they wouldn't follow one of the basic rules of "look both ways" before crossing a road (or in this case, a track) and called them out on it. She seemed to back off her statement a bit after I pointed it out to her.

Careful there dream you are about to be inundated by angry pro railers!

Sooo that's it? I haven't heard one piece of evidence that is absolutely convincing on any of the points I have raised, but because you & Nmain say so I should just concede? Well gosh I didn't know that was how it worked, I am glad I have you to tell me when I am convinced Ricco - I may come back on tonight, but I will spend the rest of the day going door to door in Afton Oaks telling my neighbors that "Ricco says it's over, and we should give up our opposition to rail on Richmond".

Nice try . . . . .

Well, one of the things I wanted to respond to, was why is it (according to the article from the chronicle listed on the day of post 744), that they are more pragmatic about the rail going down harrisburg, even realizing that it would suffer a short term economic shortfall during the construction phase?

If you wander around to the other topics on this system, you will come to realize that many of us have a tendency to disagree with each other quite a bit, but will usually find some compromise on a number of topics. While the University is one of the more active threads on here, it's not the ONLY thread. In fact, a few of us are surprised you haven't posted on the high street development that's happening at the entrance of your neighborhood.

[musicman]

Forgive me if I'm posting this again, there has been so much activity on this thread that it's hard to remember what articles have been put up for discussion on here.

according to the article in today's chronicle, there seems to be some concerns along the eastern side of the University line.

according to the article, they seem to have an issue about the train cutting through the middle of the campus. While I wasn't aware that TSU was expanding south of wheeler, the arguments they have on there I think are rather absurd.

In one quote they say that "Wheeler was closed because students kept getting hit by cars," as far as driving around campuses goes, this is more to the idiot drivers, especially young ones that seem to be the habit in an open campus such as this. However, the next statement by the same person, "Students would have to cross the rail line to get to classes and I'm not too thrilled to have to wait on a train."

Sorry, seems to me that waiting about a minute to cross the campus from one side to another doesn't seem like too much of a hardship.

however, there seems to be a significant amount of support from one of the community leaders, while at the same time having his own concerns which he eventually concludes with (to paraphrase) "residents are willing to compromise rather than miss out on the economic boon light rail would bring to the community.

One of the quotes I heard in the meeting yesterday was, "The train already killed two people and I don't want it killing a student."

It should be interesting. Currently METRO only allows pedestrian crossings at certain designated crossings. METRO has installed various fences near the stations to prevent people from crossing tracks. A campus setting would definitely be a challenge. You have to keep the campus open, yet minimize pedestrian crossings. Will help for campus access but yet may divide campus.

[ricco67]

I think that after small period of time, people would get used to it. My only concern is people doing a "jackass" and pummeling themselves AT the train. But that's darwin for ya.

[AftonAg]

After all the @#%@$$ Afton Oaks residences have given METRO, why would they reward that area with a station.

I hope not only does METRO run strait down Richmond all the way, becasue that makes the most sense, but perhaps orginally there was a station slated for say Newcastle and Metro changed their mind

" !#@@%!@$ them.. they wanna give us @#%@$@ and derail the entire line ?!?! Okay, take their station off the table... that'll teach them.. one day !! "

My I hope you have another mouth that you use to kiss your loved ones. Take "our" station off the table, please do, and while your at it take the rail too.