METRORail University Line

[ricco67]

I would prefer the subway, but as you point out it is cost prohibitive, but I think it would be more than 3X given soil conditions, an the permanent de-watering that would be required. I still like the idea of canoes on the bayous has a nice ring to it.

Ignored.

It's also noted that you ignored the rest of my post. Was that intentional, or did you wish to reply at some later point? What makes the people on the east end welcome the rail as opposed to your neighborhood?

I would also like a subway and it's perfectly feasible in this particular section of town.

Great post Gov.

I agree. Let's all agree to disagree with some decorum.

[kennyc05]

anyone have any renderings subwayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

y

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[Trae]

Chill out on those y's. Delete all of them but that ONE that goes at the end of subway.

[TheNiche]

I would also like a subway and it's perfectly feasible in this particular section of town.

Subway? Through AO? Hell no. Way too much money to alay the concerns of way too few people.

My proposal: Sink the UP rail line in a trench from Brays Bayout to Buffalo Bayou. This should've been done a long time ago, will help home values throughout a wide area, and will alleviate a lot of traffic (good for High Street and Westcreek, too). Doing this favor for AO should shut them up with respect to LRT. Run the at-grade LRT through most of Afton Oaks and sink it into a subway format only as it nears the intersection of Richmond and 610. Have it turn northbound and head up Post Oak Blvd. as a subway.

[ssullivan]

I've been following the discussion in this thread the last few days but haven't really had time to throw in my two cents.

AftonAg, thanks for expressing your opinions. While I may disagree on most of your points, I do value and respect your opinion. I hope that you, and your neighbors who share your opinions on the rail issue, can find a way to view those who support rail on Richmond as not being evil, misguided, or out to destroy your neighborhood and property values. The "us versus them" mentality that has been evident on both sides of the issue is not conducive to civil discussion of all of the issues, both those that affect Afton Oaks, as well as those that affect Houston's entire metro area. While we may not all agree, we can all at least be civil and listen to each other with an open mind, and a level of respect for where the other side is coming from.

That said, I've seen several posts that refer to the idea that Afton Oaks residents won't use mass transit. I would like to see some empirical evidence of this, as opposed to it just being a blanket statement thrown out by those who don't want the rail line going through the neighborhood. I find it hard to believe that no residents in that neighborhood would not use light rail at least some of the time for trips to destinations in Uptown, Downtown, Greenway Plaza, the Museum District, and the Medical Center. One does have to wonder what the logic of driving from Afton Oaks to work in Greenway is if there is an alternate method that is just as fast, if not faster, and cheaper, available. Now, I wouldn't expect huge ridership numbers from Afton Oaks. After all, it's not an enormous neighborhood, and it does not have the density that some other areas might have. And not everybody in the neighborhood works in an area served by MetroRail. But to say that Afton Oaks residents won't use the rail at all does seem a bit short-sighted.

As for property values, I understand your fears. I currently do not own a home but when I do, of course I would want to see my property value appreciate, or at a minimum, not depreciate. Evidence of property value increases after mass transit was built in a neighborhood has been offered, but discounted because it is from other cities. Yet this really is the only way to make an informed prediction about what could happen to property values in Afton Oaks as a result of the light rail line. It would be ideal if Houston had other rail lines in similar neighborhoods to use as a predictor, but we don't. But we can look at similar neighborhoods in other cities for a clue as to what might happen here. And, as others have pointed out, resale values could very easily escalate in Afton Oaks after the rail line is completed. To a large number of people with money, the prospect of living in a close-in neighborhood with nice homes, beautiful trees, and easy access (all of the things that you and your neighbors love about Afton Oaks -- and all of the things that I like about it, even though I don't live there) that also has a great mass transit link to all of the central city's major employment and activity centers is extremely attractive. When I do buy a home in the next couple of years, being close to mass transit will be something I'm willing to pay a premium for. I seriously doubt I am alone in this. And I do not fit the stereotype that many people in this city seem to have about Metro riders -- I am not poor, uneducated, or without a car. My education, profession, and income place me on par with many of the residents of Afton Oaks. And if I lived in your neighborhood, I'd probably have signs in my yard begging Metro to lay the tracks on Richmond. This is part of why I find it hard to believe that "nobody in Afton Oaks will ride Metro" and that property values will suffer. There are very likely many others like myself out there who would be lined up at your doorstep the moment your house went on the market wanting to make an offer if the rail line was on Richmond. We might still be there wanting to buy it if the rail wasn't on Richmond, but I know I'd be willing to pay more for easy access to mass transit. And I personally know other young adults who feel the same way.

Regardless of what happens with the rail line in Afton Oaks, building it on Richmond to at least Greenway Plaza makes far more sense than building it on Westpark. I could live with one of Metro's proposed compromises of turning the line south to Westpark at a point east of Afton Oaks. However, simple geometry states that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. And in this case, the straight line is also where the residents, jobs, and shopping are -- all along Richmond. That's why I believe a Richmond routing makes the most sense. It also spares some of the expenses associated with transitioning the line to Westpark east of Afton Oaks, including the need to cross US 59 twice, as well as routing the line through the complicated US 59/IAH 610 interchange. As a taxpayer, and a fare-paying Metro rider, I want to see the most bang for my buck on this project, and again, Richmond is the solution that makes sense to me. Westpark is fine as a commuter routing west of the Hillcroft Transit Center, where the population is less dense and the light rail could run at higher speeds linking up the Hillcroft Transit Center to the Gessner, Westchase, and Mission Bend Park and Ride lots. But for the denser inner-loop area, where the major residential, work, and activity areas are, the Richmond routing is really the only one that makes sense.

[ricco67]

excellent post sullivan!

Turns out there is meeting over at JD High school that's mentioned in this article. I will probably be in the area so I'll try to drop by and see what the hubbub is.

According to the article, it seems that they're stating that they will be losing more land because more of the row will be taken. My question is, if this is part of the original row, why didn't the original builder of the businesses and complexes use that part to begin with?

[C2H]

Information that I didn't have but obviously should have known I guess. I am sorry that your grandmother requires your care, but happy that you are providing it. I have been there and I know it isn't fun. Care from a family member comes with love automatically. If you really are moving to Houston permanently let me be the first to welcome you to Texas.

thank you for the welcome and the understanding of my grandmother. Perhaps maybe i was a little harsh at first. I just don't want my opinion to be discredited just because i currently live in a different state. I only lived in Houston the first 2 years of my life and then we moved to Colorado. But my grandmother and father live in Midtown and have lived in that same area for the past 46 years.

While I might not agree with some of the points you made about LRT, i do respect your opinion. I'm already kind of frustrated that Houston seems to lack many things like Mass transit options while other cities of similar size like Dallas, Atlanta, and Denver are already years ahead of Houston. Even Austin's plans for transportation seem to be gaining on Houston. That's why i was so glad to see that T. Delay guy go. That's why i get frustrated with people that oppose rail because they're holding Houston back as a whole from progressing.

I understand your concern for rail and its impact on your neighborhood. But as someone pointed out earlier, that's growing pains. At least they're not destroying Afton OAks neighborhood like they destroyed part of 3rd Ward to build 288. Think of the positive, it might actually bring you and your fellow Afton Oaks neighbors closer together. While waiting for a quiet train to your destination, you might engage in a lovely conversation with one of them. They may say they're going shopping, or to the Theatre District which might spark some conversation about things you didn't know about them before. Maybe you might find they like much of the same things you do? Just a thought!

My comment of the age was only directed at the fact that i am looking out for the FUTURE of Houston. I'm in my mid 20s and have no kids but maybe when i do have kids and am living in Houston, i want them to grow up in a less polluted environment. Maybe i want to encourage them to use mass transit over driving to decrease the chance of accidents. It's just the fact that the decisions made today have a strong impact on tommorrow. That's why Houston predominantly remains a car-centric city with a relatively lifeless downtown because of the past decisions. If we don't do something now, it will remain a city lacking of transportation options.

That's just my view on things. Anyone can agree or disagree!

[TJones]

anyone have any renderings subwayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

y

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys

That's one hell of a stutter there k-k-k-k-k-k-k-kenny!

As far as the land that AO residents will be losing from the frontyards, didn't I see somewhere that someone stated that the land is actually the city's to begin with ?

This land the AO residents are referring to in oreder to widen the streets was and is not part of the AO residents actual surveys of their properties and is in fact owned by the city, not as eminent domain, but clearly as land never sold to the developer, but was and has always been retained by the city just for the specific purpose of widening streets as needed ?

Edited July 22, 2006 by TJones

[nmainguy]

As far as the land that AO residents will be losing from the frontyards, didn't I see somewhere that someone stated that the land is actually the city's to begin with ?

This land the AO residents are referring to in oreder to widen the streets was and is not part of the AO residents actual surveys of their properties and is in fact owned by the city, not as eminent domain, but clearly as land never sold to the developer, but was and has always been retained by the city just for the specific purpose of widening streets as needed ?

Yes. It would be hard to find a home in Houston with a plat that extends to the street/curb. My plat on N. Main stops 4' from the street. It encompasses the sidewalk and city water main.

This is just another tactic AOers use to scare things up. "OMG!!!!!!!!!! THEM THERE METROS GONNA PUT A RAIL THROUGH MY BATHROOM! OMG!!!!!"

Yeah...right.

If I was an AOer [which I was at one time] I'd be thinking about the impact the bridge over the SP track is going to have on their neighborhood. Their fight should be the removal or depressing that line [which could merge with the Holmes Rd. line-a straight shot to the Ship Channel] and quit worrying about a quiet electric train that will raise the value of their property.

Jeez Louise...

[bkueb73]

anyone got a map or link to a map of what the system is supposed to look like at buildout?

[Furious Jam]

The Chronicle weighs in: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/4064512.html

Making tracks

Running the proposed University light rail line on Richmond makes the most sense, but Metro is offering reasonable alternatives.

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

ON Aug. 8, the board of the Metropolitan Transit Authority will decide the course of its University light rail line. It's time to replace heated rhetoric and scare tactics with a review of the facts regarding how best to secure the greatest good for the greatest number of Houston residents. The detailed plans and options unveiled last week Metro Chairman David Wolff and President Frank Wilson do just that.

Of the five proposed new Metro transit lines, only the route linking the University of Houston and Texas Southern University on the east to the Galleria area and beyond has generated significant controversy. Metro's preferred route would run along Richmond from Main Street to South Rice near the Galleria. Some trains would continue north on Post Oak, while others would go west on Westpark to the Hillcroft Transit Center, giving Park 'n Ride patrons access to the expanding rail system.

That is the most direct route and the one surveys reveal would attract the most ridership. Without sufficient ridership, the line will not qualify for federal financing. Without federal financing, the line needed to connect all the other transit corridors cannot be built.

Metro's president states that no matter what route the University line takes, it will form the key link in a citywide system that eventually will carry 140,000 passengers every work day, removing 35,000 cars from the city's streets. Against the opposition of some residents who don't want to endure the construction, the new line offers a $1.2 billion economic boom that directly and indirectly will generate 60,000 jobs over six years

[ricco67]

The Chronicle weighs in: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/4064512.html

Making tracks

Running the proposed University light rail line on Richmond makes the most sense, but Metro is offering reasonable alternatives.

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

"It is not my job to tell Metro where to build rail or to help them sell it," wrote Culberson, "but it is my job to protect my constituents where they do not want Metro to build it."

I find it interesting while he does or doesn't support the rail plan, he seems to want to simply play up to a couple of residences.

I can't see how he's not able to notice how much of an improvement to our mobility would be if this is built as it's intendend instead of just listening to a few folks who are merely concerned about their property values. They should be more concerned about the High street development across the street!

[nmainguy]

anyone got a map or link to a map of what the system is supposed to look like at buildout?

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Univ...1806.125073.pdf

[wakester]

Even no one in Afton Oaks ever uses the train, I am sure that if they have a nanny or house keeper they would use it. If the train turns way before AO and metro eliminates the Richmond bus routes, then they may have to get new house keepers.

[bkueb73]

is the Houston rail system supposed to be on the same scale as the one in Dallas?

[Trae]

My mom let me drive home today from Lakewood, so I took Richmond to 610 so I could see Afton Oaks (she got upset because traffic was horrible at Westheimer and 610), but Afton Oaks is a nice neighborhood. The trees are real mature, and added some nice shade to the area. I didn't see to many business either, so I suspect not many will be affected. They all prenty much end before the railroad tracks My mom even said she wouldn't mind staying in this area, but she still like Katy. The homes have some pretty decent sized lots, and shouldn't lose to much yard ward if/when the rail come in. If i was just starting a family, with a child not in school yet, Afton Oaks would be a good choice to live in, especially with convenient rail access.

Off topic, but what is that apartment complex called being constructed at Edloe and Richmond. They look pretty nice, and have a garage attached to them.

Edited July 23, 2006 by Trae

[MiDTOWNeR]

Light rail on Richmond...FINALLY a viable well positioned transit option for Houston, and the Ashton Oaks hillbillies gots to try to derail it.

Edited July 24, 2006 by MiDTOWNeR

[ricco67]

You know, I forgot to mention, there ARE apartments over at A-oaks. They're located in a sliver of a section over on W. Alabama on the EAST side of 610 as well as a couple of streets that are there.

If memory serves me correct, there are about 6 apartment complexes (granted, they're small ones) on the west side of A-oaks. They're located right behind the new strip center on the north bound side between Richmond and Westhiemer.

It's amazing what insomnia will trigger in one's memory.

The thing that strikes me as funny is the A-Oak's residences are so preoccupied about the light rail on richmond having a (they assume) negative impact on their neighborhood that they totally ignored/blindsided by that new "high street" development which will have a bigger impact than the LRT/R will EVER have on them.

BTW: A-oak residences. Get a clue. Get a traffic light on Newcastle @ Richmond..it'll make my cutting through your neighbhood easier.

[Highway6]

This should rile things up a lil more.. Sounds like Metro is getting a little bit more in the mood to put the gloves on.

Chron's Rad Sallee

Sunday's article quoting Metro...

Metro spokesman George Smalley said extending construction to the full limit of city right of way would not be considered a taking of private property. Which returns us to Wolff's remarks:

"There are some people who have a problem understanding what public right of way means," he said during the public comment session in Thursday's board meeting.

"They think that if they adjoin public land, that gives them the right and entitlement to use (it) for free, and that when the public wants to use the right of way, it is therefore imposing on these people," Wolff said.

"One of the things we have to communicate is that public right of way belongs to you, it belongs to me, it belongs to all the taxpayers," he told the audience.

"No adjoining property owner has any right to usurp public right of way for private purposes, and if taking something under misrepresentation, it is stealing public property."

[AftonAg]

thank you for the welcome and the understanding of my grandmother. Perhaps maybe i was a little harsh at first. I just don't want my opinion to be discredited just because i currently live in a different state. I only lived in Houston the first 2 years of my life and then we moved to Colorado. But my grandmother and father live in Midtown and have lived in that same area for the past 46 years.

While I might not agree with some of the points you made about LRT, i do respect your opinion. I'm already kind of frustrated that Houston seems to lack many things like Mass transit options while other cities of similar size like Dallas, Atlanta, and Denver are already years ahead of Houston. Even Austin's plans for transportation seem to be gaining on Houston. That's why i was so glad to see that T. Delay guy go. That's why i get frustrated with people that oppose rail because they're holding Houston back as a whole from progressing.

I understand your concern for rail and its impact on your neighborhood. But as someone pointed out earlier, that's growing pains. At least they're not destroying Afton OAks neighborhood like they destroyed part of 3rd Ward to build 288. Think of the positive, it might actually bring you and your fellow Afton Oaks neighbors closer together. While waiting for a quiet train to your destination, you might engage in a lovely conversation with one of them. They may say they're going shopping, or to the Theatre District which might spark some conversation about things you didn't know about them before. Maybe you might find they like much of the same things you do? Just a thought!

My comment of the age was only directed at the fact that i am looking out for the FUTURE of Houston. I'm in my mid 20s and have no kids but maybe when i do have kids and am living in Houston, i want them to grow up in a less polluted environment. Maybe i want to encourage them to use mass transit over driving to decrease the chance of accidents. It's just the fact that the decisions made today have a strong impact on tommorrow. That's why Houston predominantly remains a car-centric city with a relatively lifeless downtown because of the past decisions. If we don't do something now, it will remain a city lacking of transportation options.

That's just my view on things. Anyone can agree or disagree!

C2H I appreciate the points you have made as well. And as you are in your mid 20's turns out you were correct at being half my age - give or take a year. I still haven't seen any plans that indicate that there will be a station at Newcastle . . . . And if there is presumably someone is going to lose a house, maybe two - the street is six lanes but I don't think it is wide enough for a station and that means to baoard I would have to go some distance, probably beyond comfortable walking distance in the Houston heat & humidity, so again it is unlikely that I or most of the other AO's would ride the train. As for the conversations that you mention I am a frequent walker - I have two dogs, and I have engaged in many many conversations with my neighbors during those walks. Some have even been about rail on Richmond. I was asked to talk with my neighbors about an alternate route that turned at Weslayan or the UP tracks and went to Westpark - my informal poll indicates that my neighbors would be in favor of that route over the RIchmond route.

You know, I forgot to mention, there ARE apartments over at A-oaks. They're located in a sliver of a section over on W. Alabama on the EAST side of 610 as well as a couple of streets that are there.

If memory serves me correct, there are about 6 apartment complexes (granted, they're small ones) on the west side of A-oaks. They're located right behind the new strip center on the north bound side between Richmond and Westhiemer.

It's amazing what insomnia will trigger in one's memory.

The thing that strikes me as funny is the A-Oak's residences are so preoccupied about the light rail on richmond having a (they assume) negative impact on their neighborhood that they totally ignored/blindsided by that new "high street" development which will have a bigger impact than the LRT/R will EVER have on them.

BTW: A-oak residences. Get a clue. Get a traffic light on Newcastle @ Richmond..it'll make my cutting through your neighbhood easier.

Ricco -

Nice effort at trying to bait me into an attack - I will pass.

Light rail on Richmond...FINALLY a viable well positioned transit option for Houston, and the Ashton Oaks hillbillies gots to try to derail it.

Sheesh - seems like just the other day we agreed to disagree without being disagreeable. Please provide facts that there are any Hillbillies in the (I presume you meant Afton Oaks although you spelled it Ashton Oaks and I can not find that on my keymap) Afton Oaks neighborhood.

Try disagree without being disagreeable - it really is counter productive.

Even no one in Afton Oaks ever uses the train, I am sure that if they have a nanny or house keeper they would use it. If the train turns way before AO and metro eliminates the Richmond bus routes, then they may have to get new house keepers.

Not everyone in Afton Oaks has housekeepers or nannies. As stated eaelier I still have not seen anything to suggest that there will be a station @Newcastle - so the housekeepers/nannies would have to walk. Even if a light is installed at Richmond and Newcastle it will still be a treacherous intersection to cross on foot.

[ricco67]

You're right, there is no stop planned for the Newcastle/Richmond area. but you should be fighting for a light there anyway.

In regards to a station needing more space, you're wrong, but they would probably take out the trees.

As far as losing a house, that won't happen. Losing part of a yard, definately. a previous poster had stated that part of several yards is in a ROW, which makes it the city property, not theirs.

Believe me, the city WILL take the land back as widening of the road takes place over the years, with or without the rail.

So you're not opposed to the tracks running down richmond as long as it goes AROUND the A-oaks area. How noble of the residences to are to allow the rail to continue as long as it would inconvience other people on rail.

[Double L]

There's just no way we're not going down Richmond. It's not going to happen. If this gets derailed than it is the permanent end of Houston public transportation as we know it.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Double L

[nmainguy]

And if there is presumably someone is going to lose a house, maybe two - the street is six lanes but I don't think it is wide enough for a station and that means to baoard I would have to go some distance, probably beyond comfortable walking distance in the Houston heat & humidity, so again it is unlikely that I or most of the other AO's would ride the train.

It appears METRO is in agreement with most that a station in AO would be a waste of money because of statements

like it is unlikely that I or most of the other AO's would ride the train.

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Univ...1806.125073.pdf page 22 shows a rendering of the Richmond/Newcastle intersection and page 23 shows it's cross-section. Your comments about a station taking taking away homes is just incorrect as there is no station planned for Newcastle.

From the cross-section you can see the esplanade remains as well as 6 lanes of traffic. R.O.W. may be taken from homes on Richmond but that's not the homeowners land to begin with-it's the city's.

[AftonAg]

I've been following the discussion in this thread the last few days but haven't really had time to throw in my two cents.

AftonAg, thanks for expressing your opinions. While I may disagree on most of your points, I do value and respect your opinion. I hope that you, and your neighbors who share your opinions on the rail issue, can find a way to view those who support rail on Richmond as not being evil, misguided, or out to destroy your neighborhood and property values. The "us versus them" mentality that has been evident on both sides of the issue is not conducive to civil discussion of all of the issues, both those that affect Afton Oaks, as well as those that affect Houston's entire metro area. While we may not all agree, we can all at least be civil and listen to each other with an open mind, and a level of respect for where the other side is coming from.

That said, I've seen several posts that refer to the idea that Afton Oaks residents won't use mass transit. I would like to see some empirical evidence of this, as opposed to it just being a blanket statement thrown out by those who don't want the rail line going through the neighborhood. I find it hard to believe that no residents in that neighborhood would not use light rail at least some of the time for trips to destinations in Uptown, Downtown, Greenway Plaza, the Museum District, and the Medical Center. One does have to wonder what the logic of driving from Afton Oaks to work in Greenway is if there is an alternate method that is just as fast, if not faster, and cheaper, available. Now, I wouldn't expect huge ridership numbers from Afton Oaks. After all, it's not an enormous neighborhood, and it does not have the density that some other areas might have. And not everybody in the neighborhood works in an area served by MetroRail. But to say that Afton Oaks residents won't use the rail at all does seem a bit short-sighted.

As for property values, I understand your fears. I currently do not own a home but when I do, of course I would want to see my property value appreciate, or at a minimum, not depreciate. Evidence of property value increases after mass transit was built in a neighborhood has been offered, but discounted because it is from other cities. Yet this really is the only way to make an informed prediction about what could happen to property values in Afton Oaks as a result of the light rail line. It would be ideal if Houston had other rail lines in similar neighborhoods to use as a predictor, but we don't. But we can look at similar neighborhoods in other cities for a clue as to what might happen here. And, as others have pointed out, resale values could very easily escalate in Afton Oaks after the rail line is completed. To a large number of people with money, the prospect of living in a close-in neighborhood with nice homes, beautiful trees, and easy access (all of the things that you and your neighbors love about Afton Oaks -- and all of the things that I like about it, even though I don't live there) that also has a great mass transit link to all of the central city's major employment and activity centers is extremely attractive. When I do buy a home in the next couple of years, being close to mass transit will be something I'm willing to pay a premium for. I seriously doubt I am alone in this. And I do not fit the stereotype that many people in this city seem to have about Metro riders -- I am not poor, uneducated, or without a car. My education, profession, and income place me on par with many of the residents of Afton Oaks. And if I lived in your neighborhood, I'd probably have signs in my yard begging Metro to lay the tracks on Richmond. This is part of why I find it hard to believe that "nobody in Afton Oaks will ride Metro" and that property values will suffer. There are very likely many others like myself out there who would be lined up at your doorstep the moment your house went on the market wanting to make an offer if the rail line was on Richmond. We might still be there wanting to buy it if the rail wasn't on Richmond, but I know I'd be willing to pay more for easy access to mass transit. And I personally know other young adults who feel the same way.

Regardless of what happens with the rail line in Afton Oaks, building it on Richmond to at least Greenway Plaza makes far more sense than building it on Westpark. I could live with one of Metro's proposed compromises of turning the line south to Westpark at a point east of Afton Oaks. However, simple geometry states that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. And in this case, the straight line is also where the residents, jobs, and shopping are -- all along Richmond. That's why I believe a Richmond routing makes the most sense. It also spares some of the expenses associated with transitioning the line to Westpark east of Afton Oaks, including the need to cross US 59 twice, as well as routing the line through the complicated US 59/IAH 610 interchange. As a taxpayer, and a fare-paying Metro rider, I want to see the most bang for my buck on this project, and again, Richmond is the solution that makes sense to me. Westpark is fine as a commuter routing west of the Hillcroft Transit Center, where the population is less dense and the light rail could run at higher speeds linking up the Hillcroft Transit Center to the Gessner, Westchase, and Mission Bend Park and Ride lots. But for the denser inner-loop area, where the major residential, work, and activity areas are, the Richmond routing is really the only one that makes sense.

Nice well thought out post Sullivan, thanks for putting in your 2 cents worth. I agree that we should be able to disagree on this forum without being disagreeable. I do not personally feel that those of you that are for rail are by default Satan's agents, or part of the "Axis of Evil" for that matter. We have differing opinions and it is just that simple.

In some of my other posts I have noted that I haven't seen anything that has suggested a station within the Afton Oaks neighborhood, and I don't think there is room for one. Having said that I know that I would not use the rail because I would have to get in my car and drive to a rail station - If I am already in the car driving - and probably enjoying a cigar - I would just drive to my destination.

Property Values - using data from other cities to predict "what could happen" - predictions are often wrong even when based on the best data available - I would point out our local weather forecasters as a prime example.

Why does the rail ever need to cross 59 at all - let's just keep it on that side of the freeway all the way to Hillcroft. Okay not feasible you say and I am inclined to agree - but turning at the UP line is a compromise that I think most Afton Oaks residents could live with, and it would also provide that economic boost to the Westpark corridor that it sorely needs. The 59 & 610 intersection is a no-brainer - run the darn train right down the middle of Westpark like they want to do on Richmond.

You're right.

Ricco - thanks for the first two words of your post - feel free to repeat them as often as you can.

[ricco67]

Put them in context if you're going to quote me.

I stated, "You're right, there is no stop planned for the Newcastle/Richmond area. but you should be fighting for a light there anyway."

but once again, you haven't mentioned the other issues that I brought forth.

In regards to using other city data to "predict" what might happen to your area is about as good of an indicator as you're going to get.

Using the weather anology, if it's summer it's going to be warm. Only a long shot gambler would predict snow in the middle of july in Houston!

Edited July 24, 2006 by ricco67

[AftonAg]

It appears METRO is in agreement with most that a station in AO would be a waste of money because of statements

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Univ...1806.125073.pdf page 22 shows a rendering of the Richmond/Newcastle intersection and page 23 shows it's cross-section. Your comments about a station taking taking away homes is just incorrect as there is no station planned for Newcastle.

From the cross-section you can see the esplanade remains as well as 6 lanes of traffic. R.O.W. may be taken from homes on Richmond but that's not the homeowners land to begin with-it's the city's.

nmain - in my last three or four posts I have mentioned that I haven't seen anything indicating that a station was planned at Newcastle & Richmond. The comment you quote above contained that reference also I thought. So then my comment about putting a station there was that there wasn't room, unless they were going to take a house or two - that was SPECULATION on my part. Regarding ROW being taken by the city - you are correct you cant lose what you never owned, Although I know and you know that after mowing it for 30 years, planting flowers, trees etc - you would still be less than pleased if the city came and reclaimed the ROW in front of your house.

Put them in context if you're going to quote me.

I stated, "You're right, there is no stop planned for the Newcastle/Richmond area. but you should be fighting for a light there anyway."

but once again, you haven't mentioned the other issues that I brought forth.

C'mon Ricco - my only intent was humor - if you didn't get I am certain everyone else that reads it will. You know it was at least a little funny.

[AftonAg]

There's just no way we're not going down Richmond. It's not going to happen. If this gets derailed than it is the permanent end of Houston public transportation as we know it.

I don't agree with you on that LL, there is already rail, bus, etc, and more rail planned so moving the Richmond Rail to Westpark for part of the journey won't permanently end Houston public transportation.

[ricco67]

AO, you seem to ignore quite a bit of my comment in post #744.

Also, you fail to mention if the residences of A-oaks feel about the other development that that will impact your neighborhood even more.

nor even if it ever occured to the residences to put in a traffic light on Newcastle @ Richmond.

[nmainguy]

The comment you quote above contained that reference also I thought. So then my comment about putting a station there was that there wasn't room, unless they were going to take a house or two - that was SPECULATION on my part.

This is not intended as a jab but if you speculated stations would be on the sides of the streets instead of in the medians, then you haven't really looked at all the information.

I think the majority of the people I've spoken with on and off this board-pro and con-were aware the LRT is to be on the esplanade side of the street thus no homes in AO would be destroyed.

[RedScare]

Why does the rail ever need to cross 59 at all - let's just keep it on that side of the freeway all the way to Hillcroft. Okay not feasible you say and I am inclined to agree - but turning at the UP line is a compromise that I think most Afton Oaks residents could live with, and it would also provide that economic boost to the Westpark corridor that it sorely needs. The 59 & 610 intersection is a no-brainer - run the darn train right down the middle of Westpark like they want to do on Richmond.

Ricco - thanks for the first two words of your post - feel free to repeat them as often as you can.

I'm inclined to agree that, as a compromise, this allignment is doable. I don't know what it does to ridership numbers, and therefore, federal funding, but surely Mr. Culberson could grease those skids for us...can't he?