Camden Midtown: Multifamily At 2303 Louisiana St.

[MidtownCoog]

Why didn't you just move to the nicer part of midtown

Young and dumb, that's why. Just trying to do our part as reurbanization pioneers.

We live 15 miles from downtown in Fall Creek.

But I have been using the MidtownCoog handle for years now, and it seems silly to change that now.

[dbigtex56]

This forum would surely benefit from an actual moderator who would actively limit the discussions to respectful communication. Some of the members of this forum are clearly not capable of engaging in civil discourse.  It's tiresome.  Why must we be subjected to so much idiocy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The HAIF moderators (if I can speak for all of us) have a fairly liberal posting policy. Certainly, some members are better informed, more articulate and possess better social skills than others. And I agree that some judicious pruning would make reading the posts more pleasant.

On the other hand, some of the most ignorant posts have prompted people to post thoughtful replies. While we're reluctant to allow this forum to degenerate into a flaming chatroom, there's also a hope that the exchange of opinions will remain lively enough to encourage people to return.

I hope that all of our members will consider the views you expressed, and use some common sense before posting messages. Moderators walk a fine line between alienating people by a heavy-handed approach, and allowing conversations to degenerate into idiocy.

Thanks for the imput.

[bachanon]

well said, dbigtex.

here here, (bach clinks his third pint of beer against other empty glasses)

[largeTEXAS]

The term "apartment" is being used incorrectly in this thread. Here's what Webster had to say:

a

[2112]

Midtowncoog,

Why didn't you just move to the nicer part of midtown, over near Post and Amli and the other nice complexes?

And where are you living now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what the hell is that SMELL?

[LTAWACS]

I hereby officially declare this thread a failure.

[dbigtex56]

No where in here is the word "lease." In Houston, yes, we refer to those crappy complexes as apartments, but they are just one style of rental units. When I lived up East, people referred to "million-dollar" apartments. The certainly were not talking about rental units.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point well taken - I checked my dictionary and it too makes no mention of the financial arrangement for the word 'apartment'.

But I think we're all pretty much on the same page here - by "apartment building" (or complex) it's assumed that we mean rental units. As someone else pointed out, the newer, more expensive buildings will have fairly strict criteria for lessees. Also, the circumstances which brought about the huge, cheaply constructed apartment complexes in the Gulfton (and Greenspoint) areas were different from today's market. If I recall correctly, the vacancy rate for apartments in the late 70's - early 80's was <5%. They were built on the cheap, because anything that had four walls and plumbing was being snapped up.

There's a dizzying array of different ownership/rental options out there today. As I understand it, some of those NYC "apartments" are sold for huge sums, but also have steep monthly rents (or maintenance fees). What's the difference between a condo and a co-op? Darned if I know. The point I'm trying to make is that these 'apartments' may someday turn into some mix of ownership and rental. There are a couple of apartment complexes which have converted into individually owned units in the Montrose area (Montrose Gardens, the Burlington), and I imagine the same might eventually happen in Midtown.

[largeTEXAS]

I think you're right, dbigtex56. The better-made apartment buildings have a good chance of undergoing the conversion to condos. Houston might even see the co-op phenomenon someday.

A "co-op," just for reference, is a building in which many parties have part ownership. Every unit is essentially borrowed for a specified amount of time. Every decision to alter a unit in any way has to go through the co-op board. So, it's basically ownership without the freedom. A condo means complete ownership of a specified unit and the freedom to alter it in any way desired.

3333 Allen Parkway might soon be transformed from an apartment to condos. Here's the story: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...p?showtopic=697

[Subdude]

I spoke to a condo developer's rep about it last year, and she said that there were relatively few apartments in Houston that they considered to be good candidates for condo conversion. In fact, they were having trouble locating a suitable complex they could buy to do a conversion. Other than generally higher-quality construction, though, I'm not sure what their criteria are. It's great that we are starting to see more conversions in Houston, but my guess is that most apartments are developed with a view to just remaining apartments, since Houston has historically not been a strong condo market compared to some other cities.

I think we all hope for the best for the Midtown development, but I think it's fair to realize that there can be an element of risk in apartments or any development. This isn't saying that deterioration into another Gulfton is likely, just that over time some projects do go downhill.

[earlybird]

Back to the Camden project on Main....I am very interested in the project because I own some property in the area. In my opinion it will be good for the area in the short term, it could be good for the area in the long term as well. It really depends on what actually is developed and the quality of the construction. We need resturants in Midtown on Main Street to bring folks from Downtown, the Museum District, and the Med Center to our area. Once they are here...who knows they may find other businesses of interest in Midtown. And...God forbid.....they might want to live...work...play...the Midtown Way! We need more population density along the rail in Midtown. We need more people who work in Midtown as well. If this project will create any of this, then it can create nothing but positive results for Midtown. I agree that we have too many apartments in Midtown. Having said that, this project seems to be also creating working environments to go with their apartments. Also, if they "keep it open to the street" with Plazas, resturants etc. it could be wonderful!

So, let us hope for quality design with quality building with some creativity thrown in.

If I see any activity on the block, I will let you know.

By the way I live in Norhill (Heights) and work in Midtown.

[H-Town Man]

what was that name of the complex back in the mid 80's (during age descrimination) that had the guy jumping into the pool with a vcr? that was suppose to be "the" place back in the day.

[UrbaNerd]

I thought columbia house sold CDs, not apartments!

[H-Town Man]

I thought columbia house sold CDs, not apartments!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah! I'm gettin' them confused...

[RayLSU]

My point?

Apartments can be risky propositions. 

Print It

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is risk involved, no doubt about it. However, I don't have a problem with apartments being developed next to me. In fact, the development in Midtown is moving a little too slow for my taste.

Apartments can house tons of young professionals that are working in Downtown and the Medical Center. Lots of students in medical school might find Midtown a convenient place to live while in school or residencies due to the light rail.

The retail aspect on the street level is critical in my mind to making apartments or midrises condos work. I would much prefer that to a bunch of crack shacks and abandoned buildings that are littering up Midtown. The more dense the population, the better the opportunity for growth of restaurants, stores, etc. in this area.

That's just my 2 cents...for what its worth.

[HtownTX]

Has anyone become involved with the Midtown Redevelopment Authority or the TIRZ? Any suggestions for someone who would like to become involved in Midtown's development?

[LTAWACS]

leave it to houston's city council to bungle yet another opportunity.

[Talbot]

? Why? What happened?

[danes75]

garden oaks here --

hey... what happened to Post Properties here in Houston? they've developed like 80% of uptown in Dallas. Its miles and miles of high-end, upscale Post and Gables communities with office space and storefronts. Why are there only two Post properties here... and most of the Gables properties are rundown B class complexes?

i have a friend that lives in midtown and i have to say... apartments can't make it look much more ghetto than parts of it already do. driving to his new townhouse (built last year) i get the treat of passing section 8 housing where women come up when you're at the stop sign and ask if you want to buy a tube of toothpaste, vacant lots with bums sleeping in them, people's kitchen trash bags thrown in the ditch, and roads with signs posted that the city has proposed abandonment. ABANDONMENT??? why on earth would the city abandon a public street next to a park???

midtown is ghetto, and no apartment complex can make it worse.

houston needs to get off its ass and fix ____. pass a no-panhandling law. i know the city of Dallas had a proposal a few months ago that required the possession of a state-id card with a valid address. if someone didn't have one (read= bum), the police took them to a shelter (or jail, i can't remember which). i dunno if it passed, but its a good idea.

houston should be wooing world class developers to revitalize midtown with beautiful parks and a pedestrial friendly transit system. I may be wrong, but it seems like almost every street in houston is a damn 5 lane superhighway, and probably 1/3 of the pedestrial crossing signals don't work.

why does EVERYTHING seem to look run down? this city has a severe case of a "houston's the most beautiful city in the u.s. no matter what anyone else says" inferiority complex. no its not. and anyone that says houston is more asthetically pleasing than say, Boston, has their head stuck up their ass.

once a city councilperson said the reason houston had "growing pains" was because it was so ethnically and culturally diverse. more diverse than New York? Or San Francisco? come on.

its like a parent with a bratty kid. stop defending it. just fix the damn problem.

-------

i'm done ranting. all you fierce "houston's the most..." zealots can flame me now.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[Lowbrow]

I'm not too hot on state ID card thing. Our civil liberties are already taking a beating. "Please, present your papers!!" Makes my eye twitch. (Clouseau?? wink wink)

[Montrose1100]

How do you think Greenpoint got the name "Gunspoint" ? TOO MANY apartments (low-income).

Biggest mistake, the area had so much potential in the 80s.

[Montrose1100]

Call me crazy, but there are toomany "Midtown" people, followed by another word.

Its a mind twister when reading this thread, and not to mention all of the quotes!

[N Judah]

i'm done ranting. all you fierce "houston's the most..." zealots can flame me now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you think midtown is "ghetto" sir, you must have a pretty charmed life . . . </flame>

I think Houston's growing pains aren't the result of 'ethnic diversity' (what a dumb thing to say...which councilmember was this?) so much as Houston's willingness to accommodate all kinds of diversity, including income and job diversity.

Contrast this to San Francisco, which has a fully represented cross-section...of people who can afford to live in a place where the average house costs over half a million dollars. Most of the 'diversity' in SF is sleeping on the street or has already left, having been pushed out by anti-growth zealotry (the city having achieved the remarkable feat of actually *losing* diversity in the 1990s). A lot of recent immigrants live as far as the boomtown suburbs two hours to the east, which look more like Houston than anything else, and even have Houston-style infrastructure problems.

[Trophy Property]

I think it was Gary Pollard's Colonial House. Where he is now is anybody's guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought it was Michael Pollack. The guy went bankrupt, but I have no idea where he is. What ever happened to Tommy Vu? Remember that Joker?

[HtownTX]

Lack of zoning must take most of the responsibility. Even if the city gets off it's ass, there isn't a standard to enforce.

[pineda]

I thought it was Michael Pollack. The guy went bankrupt, but I have no idea where he is.

We went over this a few months back, but here it is again. After reading through his website and how he favors rehabbing defunct properties into great new properties that revitalize rundown areas of town, I had a new found respect for this guy. I wish he'd come back to Houston and do his magic here!

Pollack Investments website

[pineda]

Tommy Vu

[kzseattle]

Lack of zoning must take most of the responsibility.  Even if the city gets off it's ass, there isn't a standard to enforce.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again, lack of zoning is being taken as lack of standard. I favor zoning but does lack of zoning really mean lack of standards? If I understood correctly after the discussion on this subject in another thread, the two are different. Does anyone here know exactly what do zoning laws regulate? That would help us determine exactly what we can blame lack of zoning for instead of lumping together every problem in this city and blaming it on lack of zoning.

About rundown portions of Midtown, one needs to remember that it is an area in transition. The problem is not that the change isn

[danes75]

Well, zoning in Dallas restricts what can be built where. I may be totally wrong, but just from talking with a friend who works for City Hall, there are 3 or 4 main sections and then sub sections. (i.e., Mixed use residential & C2 [light commercial]). It really only tells you what can be built where, not the QUALITY of the development. But Dallas uses it to strictly enforce strip mall standards, which in my opinion, are the bane of Houston. It doesn't matter how nice of a condo building you construct if there's a strip mall with a 24 hour check cashing store next door.

Dallas has no Midtown. The equivalent (according to location) is Uptown. The Dallas Uptown TIF was formed in 1988 as a partnership between the city of Dallas and Columbus Realty Trust (now Post Properties). That means it took 13 years (2001 was when I first visited the area) to go from a dump to a beautiful pedestrian friendly area with boutique shops and lots of patio dining.

It was so successful that the first "philly-style" property (brick sidewalks, lantern lighting, small public parks every couple of blocks) that opened, Post Meridian, completely leased up in three weeks. Dallas' Uptown redevelopment is pretty upper-middle to upper class in terms of shopping. They have typical stores like Gap and J.Crew but also things like the Magnolia Film Center (an indy movie theatre), and of course a Starbucks on every corner. There are numerous high-end furniture and design boutiques.

In 1998 the median income for the area was 99,000/person.

...Seems to me that this might be yet another case of "we don't need help because we're Houston" from the MMD and the MRA.

[kzseattle]

Well, zoning in Dallas restricts what can be built where.  I may be totally wrong, but just from talking with a friend who works for City Hall, there are 3 or 4 main sections and then sub sections. (i.e., Mixed use residential & C2 [light commercial]).  It really only tells you what can be built where, not the QUALITY of the development.  But Dallas uses it to strictly enforce strip mall standards, which in my opinion, are the bane of Houston.  It doesn't matter how nice of a condo building you construct if  there's a strip mall with a 24 hour check cashing store next door.

Dallas has no Midtown.  The equivalent (according to location) is Uptown.  The Dallas Uptown TIF was formed in 1988 as a partnership between the city of Dallas and Columbus Realty Trust (now Post Properties).  That means it took 13 years (2001 was when I first visited the area) to go from a dump to a beautiful pedestrian friendly area with boutique shops and lots of patio dining.

It was so successful that the first "philly-style" property (brick sidewalks, lantern lighting, small public parks every couple of blocks) that opened, Post Meridian, completely leased up in three weeks.  Dallas' Uptown redevelopment is pretty upper-middle to upper class in terms of shopping.  They have typical stores like Gap and J.Crew but also things like the Magnolia Film Center (an indy movie theatre), and of course a Starbucks on every corner.  There are numerous high-end furniture and design boutiques.

In 1998 the median income for the area was 99,000/person.

...Seems to me that this might be yet another case of "we don't need help because we're Houston" from the MMD and the MRA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alright, what is a good time to visit Dallas? I know summer is hot, but I hear that in winter it can get pretty brown. Well, I love greenary. If I make a trip within the next couple of weeks or so, would that be a good time? I gotta go and check it out myself sometime.