11th Street Bike Lanes

[samagon]

1 hour ago, sayler said:

Again, anecdotally, but traffic on 10th is also increased, but not in a way that feels especially dangerous. I mostly see sub-20 mph cars and trucks, because the road just isn't wide enough to support fast traffic, and there are speed bumps and a stop sign between Shepherd and Yale.

The only exception are the folks who insist on crossing Yale at 10th or making lefts from 10th at that intersection. I try not to use the term "crazy," but I wonder what would possess someone to do that when there's any traffic on Yale? Granted, that corner has regularly been the site of accidents from people doing those maneuvers [edit: for years]. However, I now see 5-6 cars backed up, traveling EB on 10th at Yale at rush hour.

I will say that traffic "inside the neighborhood" would be less of an issue if there were continuous sidewalks on those streets. We can all dream, right?

that's the thing though. aren't people going to explore to try and find something that feels more like what used to be, aka going 40+ down 11th?

as they use those side streets and see that they don't feel safe going faster than 20, or there's road humps, or stop signs, or other things that make it inconvenient (or unsafe), they'll move on and explore for something better, maybe they eventually end up back on 11th, or 20th, or White Oak.

one thing I would suggest, if you live on one of these side streets, go out and get the cheapest beater car you can, park it as inconveniently for traffic in the street in front of your house as you can, and drive it as infrequently and for as short of a distance as you can so you satisfy the cities requirement for long term parking. keep it until you see less through traffic in your neighborhood, then sell it for the same you bought it for.

Edited February 22, 2023 by samagon

[sayler]

10 hours ago, samagon said:

that's the thing though. aren't people going to explore to try and find something that feels more like what used to be, aka going 40+ down 11th?

 I am NOT an urban/traffic planner, but my understanding is that narrow lanes and the normal obstacles of residential traffic exert a pretty strong pull on drivers to slow down—or written the other way, it's unsurprising when people treat 4 lanes of traffic as a highway.

Quote

one thing I would suggest, if you live on one of these side streets, go out and get the cheapest beater car you can, park it as inconveniently for traffic in the street in front of your house as you can, and drive it as infrequently and for as short of a distance as you can so you satisfy the cities requirement for long term parking. keep it until you see less through traffic in your neighborhood, then sell it for the same you bought it for.

I'm going to go with "no."

[004n063]

11 hours ago, samagon said:

one thing I would suggest, if you live on one of these side streets, go out and get the cheapest beater car you can, park it as inconveniently for traffic in the street in front of your house as you can, and drive it as infrequently and for as short of a distance as you can so you satisfy the cities requirement for long term parking. keep it until you see less through traffic in your neighborhood, then sell it for the same you bought it for.

Just put some sticks in the street

[august948]

18 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Just put some sticks in the street

I've seen people use cones and their garbage cans for this.  Easier than keeping a car for just that purpose.

[cspwal]

In east downtown we just have old railroad crossings that were never properly paved over to slow traffic down - there's at least 3 on Delano, otherwise it would be a drag strip at night

[springcityparts]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:03 AM, TacoDog said:

11th St. westbound at Shepherd is an awkward mess right now, as there is enough space for two lanes, but it is unmarked. Could a right turn only lane be added here? Or will it have two lanes to help with traffic? 

 

Also, the lack of bike lanes here makes me believe they won't continue along 11th St. to Durham's bike lane, which is unfortunate. 

They didn’t finish the bike lanes to shepherd and Durham because the big Shepherd/Durham project will tie it together. A separate project will add wide shared use path to the north end of 11th all the way to TC jester 

[samagon]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:38 PM, cspwal said:

In east downtown we just have old railroad crossings that were never properly paved over to slow traffic down - there's at least 3 on Delano, otherwise it would be a drag strip at night

my favorite is Dumble just south of Harrisburg. 

if you maintain enough speed, you can dukes of hazzard the heck out of it.

Edited February 27, 2023 by samagon

[TacoDog]

The concrete islands on Heights Blvd have been removed. 

[004n063]

22 hours ago, TacoDog said:

The concrete islands on Heights Blvd have been removed. 

Apparently the plan is to install a curb-protected bike lane instead? Fine, I guess. But part of what was good about the floating bus stop was that it prevented a fast or corner-cutting turns (i.e into the bike lane) from 11th onto Heights.

Supposedly a few drivers bumped into the bus stop doing just that, and complained. Not sure why the response wasn't "Thank you for confirming that the design works!"

[j.33]

Floating bus stops along Heights in Houston removed (houstonchronicle.com)

Quote from the article:

"The aim was to “improve traffic flow,” Metro spokewoman Tracy Jackson said.

“Upon completion, Metro’s chief safety officer determined the design did not provide the safest environment for bus passengers or others on the road,” she said.

Drivers and Heights area residents also teed off on the platforms, calling them dangerous because drivers were not prepared to cruise by the raised yellow curb.

“Whoever put those there clearly drives a sub-compact (car),” said Michael Reese, who drops his daughter at school each morning by driving north on Heights, then south to his downtown job. “The first time I came up to it, I didn’t think I would fit.”

The lane was plenty wide, even for buses and commercial trucks, but the perception dominated the reaction, and the black marks along the yellow painted curb showed some drivers could not keep from bumping the platform.

That feedback, both to Metro and the city, also led to the change, officials said. Metro is paying to redo the street, after the city paid for the initial changes as part of the 11th Street redesign. Metro, as of Friday, could not confirm the total cost of the redesign.

“The safety hazards could not be ignored, and safety will always dictate how we move forward,” Jackson said."

This is a response I got from METRO when I asked why the bus stop signs weren't in place on the new floating bus platforms: 

"Thank you for contacting Metro. METRO does not approve of the design for the floating bus stops, for now stops will remain near side."

Honestly if this is the only change that comes from 11th St, then it is fine. For a while I was worried they would eliminate more of the safety features. Now that the community is used to it and recognizes the changes are for the greater good, I hope to see more roadways undergo changes like this :). In the future, lets hope the City and METRO can agree on the floating island design. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Justin Welling

[hbg.50]

I give Metro credit for recognizing and rectifying the mistake.

[sapo2367]

1 hour ago, Justin Welling said:

“Whoever put those there clearly drives a sub-compact (car),” said Michael Reese, who drops his daughter at school each morning by driving north on Heights, then south to his downtown job. “The first time I came up to it, I didn’t think I would fit.”

The lane was plenty wide, even for buses and commercial trucks, but the perception dominated the reaction, and the black marks along the yellow painted curb showed some drivers could not keep from bumping the platform.

Its amazing to me how poorly people understand the size of their vehicles.

[wilcal]

4 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I give Metro credit for recognizing and rectifying the mistake.

Pretty sure they are just trying to be a team player. There's always politics at play. The other floating bus stops haven't been a problem, but they haven't really been placed in yuppy neighborhoods for the most part. 

It isn't like engineers didn't sign off on the design.

Who wants to bet there was a bunch of distracted SUV-driving ding dongs behind the wheel that caused these?

[cspwal]

3 hours ago, wilcal said:

Pretty sure they are just trying to be a team player. There's always politics at play. The other floating bus stops haven't been a problem, but they haven't really been placed in yuppy neighborhoods for the most part. 

It isn't like engineers didn't sign off on the design.

Who wants to bet there was a bunch of distracted SUV-driving ding dongs behind the wheel that caused these?

It is odd that it was a sharp corner.  The floating bus stops on polk don't have that sharp corner.  Also note that there is no bus shelter on there or even a bench

[004n063]

9 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I give Metro credit for recognizing and rectifying the mistake.

But it wasn't a mistake. Read the article - everything drivers were complaining about was exactly the point. Drivers felt compressed because they were accustomed to traveling too fast on Heights and, especially, cutting the corner (aka the bike lane) in their right turns. The black marks on the curb demonstrate the danger of its absence.

Sometimes - always, actually - making drivers feel like they're doing something dangerous is a good thing.

[hbg.50]

21 minutes ago, 004n063 said:

But it wasn't a mistake. Read the article - everything drivers were complaining about was exactly the point. Drivers felt compressed because they were accustomed to traveling too fast on Heights and, especially, cutting the corner (aka the bike lane) in their right turns. The black marks on the curb demonstrate the danger of its absence.

Sometimes - always, actually - making drivers feel like they're doing something dangerous is a good thing.

Oh I thought I did read the article:

The aim was to “improve traffic flow,” Metro spokeswoman Tracy Jackson said.

“Upon completion, Metro’s chief safety officer determined the design did not provide the safest environment for bus passengers or others on the road,” she said.

“The safety hazards could not be ignored, and safety will always dictate how we move forward,” Jackson said.

 

[004n063]

6 hours ago, steve1363 said:

Oh I thought I did read the article:

The aim was to “improve traffic flow,” Metro spokeswoman Tracy Jackson said.

“Upon completion, Metro’s chief safety officer determined the design did not provide the safest environment for bus passengers or others on the road,” she said.

“The safety hazards could not be ignored, and safety will always dictate how we move forward,” Jackson said.

 

Right, but: 

>The aim was to “improve traffic flow,”

This is clearly what took precedence, and as traffic engineers refuse to recognize, this is and always will be in direct conflict with safety. High speeds are the problem.

 

This is gobbledygook:

>“Upon completion, Metro’s chief safety officer determined the design did not provide the safest environment for bus passengers or others on the road,” she said.

“The safety hazards could not be ignored, and safety will always dictate how we move forward,” Jackson said.

 

 

They provided no evidence whatsoever of its being hazardous to bus passengers, but if that had been the issue, then bollards, signage, a raised pedestrian access point, and a proper shelter would have been the solution.

There's also no evidence of its being hazardous to cyclists, though as the marks indicate, there's plenty of evidence if its being much-needed protection.

It's hazardous to the tires and bumpers of reckless drivers. 

As it - and all street design, frankly - should be. Cutting a corner or turning too fast, looking at your phone or otherwise losing focus while driving, etc. - these ARE the hazards, and by trying to allow people to mostly get away with them without a (literal) scratch is why our streets are so dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists.

[samagon]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:05 PM, steve1363 said:

Oh I thought I did read the article:

The aim was to “improve traffic flow,” Metro spokeswoman Tracy Jackson said.

“Upon completion, Metro’s chief safety officer determined the design did not provide the safest environment for bus passengers or others on the road,” she said.

“The safety hazards could not be ignored, and safety will always dictate how we move forward,” Jackson said.

 

yes, the bolded part is probably because drivers were jumping up onto the curb where pedestrians were standing and waiting for the bus. so yes, very unsafe to allow pedestrians to stand where people are driving recklessly over curbs.

they just said it in a way that makes entitled car drivers feel like it wasn't entirely their fault.

[sapo2367]

The old brick street is showing through — they should just bring this back :) will definitely help with traffic calming 

[sapo2367]

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-heights-11th-street-redesign-18366497.php

Houston removes bus islands after complaints from city's worst motorists

The floating concrete bus stops at 11th Street in the Heights have been demolished following complaints from large vehicle motorists and an ensuing safety inspection.

[cspwal]

The headline is on point 

and this quote:

”Despite being designed specifically to allow safe passage for METRO buses, local drivers appear to have struggled to avoid the bright yellow, sidewalk-high lip of the island stops.” 

[004n063]

9 hours ago, cspwal said:

The headline is on point 

and this quote:

”Despite being designed specifically to allow safe passage for METRO buses, local drivers appear to have struggled to avoid the bright yellow, sidewalk-high lip of the island stops.” 

But I'm sure they'll have no trouble avoiding the humans in that same spot now that the barrier is gone...

[Texasota]

Ah but a frail human will do far less damage to their 4000lb SUV than a concrete curb, and that's what's really important here.

[sapo2367]

From the IG account BigDumbTruckClub — but very applicable here

[samagon]

and the highest level of irony is that statistically, trucks/SUVs are far more dangerous than cars.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-dangers-of-big-trucks/

[IWantTransit555]

I wonder how old that brick is.

[hbg.50]

2 minutes ago, IWantTransit555 said:

I wonder how old that brick is.

Don’t spend too much time thinking about it.  It was black-topped a week ago.

[Triton]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:51 PM, Triton said:

I will actually agree on this point and the left turn lanes needed to be removed at Heights Blvd since forever. That always led to back ups because it was nearly impossible for anyone to turn left during rush hour. Now that left turns are gone, the traffic does flow a lot smoother through there. 

Perhaps it was the first few days when these lanes opened that traffic was horrid (People didn't know what to do?). I will say, traffic times have been better since the bike lanes first went in. It doesn't take that long for me to drive from N Main to Shepherd anymore. 

That being said, I have family that lives on W 8th St. and they have told me traffic has increased dramatically. They walk their dogs on that road and loop back around on the MTK trail.... they said the traffic volume is quite noticeable, especially around rush hour. I myself have noticed a traffic increase on 14th as well and now there's a bit of a line that forms going eastbound near Studewood St. You may have to wait through several lights just to cross through there now.

So now I wonder, have traffic times improved on 11th because people are now getting used to these bike lanes and the left turn removals... and/or.... is the traffic finding other back roads to take to avoid 11th St.

 

Whatever the case, I seriously hope someone does a study on it. 

I feel anytime I post in the Transportation forum, people are constantly using the sad emoji so I'm sorry to make this post as well... 

It is now widely known that for all new bike infrastructure or road makeover projects, every single one of them are on hold and being reassessed if they are not already under construction, from the mayor's office directly. 

The rumor mill is now saying that this project will likely be re-evaluated in the near future. There are too many residents in the area saying there is considerable traffic using W 8th (fewer on 10th) streets and that the minimal bike lane usage isn't justifying the traffic backups on 11th. (<--- edit: had this backwards)

Let me reiterate, this is just a rumor at this point.

[j.33]

38 minutes ago, Triton said:

The rumor mill is now saying that this project will likely be re-evaluated in the near future. There are too many residents in the area saying there is considerable traffic using W 8th (fewer on 10th) streets and that the traffic backups on 11th street aren't justifying the minimal bike lane usage. 

 

I've heard the rumor too. I will say that the increase in traffic on 8th Street is all the people trying to reach the MKT development. People use 8th to Waverly. The opening/popularity of MKT shopping center was around the same time as 11th St. 

[004n063]

2 hours ago, Triton said:

I feel anytime I post in the Transportation forum, people are constantly using the sad emoji so I'm sorry to make this post as well... 

It is now widely known that for all new bike infrastructure or road makeover projects, every single one of them are on hold and being reassessed if they are not already under construction, from the mayor's office directly. 

The rumor mill is now saying that this project will likely be re-evaluated in the near future. There are too many residents in the area saying there is considerable traffic using W 8th (fewer on 10th) streets and that the traffic backups on 11th street aren't justifying the minimal bike lane usage. 

Let me reiterate, this is just a rumor at this point.

Ugh.