11th Street Bike Lanes

[Texasota]

I don't think it is. The BRT buses are designed for elevated stations, not sidewalk level. 

 

[004n063]

5 hours ago, Texasota said:

I don't think it is. The BRT buses are designed for elevated stations, not sidewalk level. 

 

Yes, but the newer Boost stations (e.g. on Studewood) are elevated for level boarding. That's why I assumed this would be part of an expanded Boost service.

[Texasota]

Hmmm, it could be all the BOOST stops at least then. They do seem somewhat elevated, though I wouldn't have said as much or as consistently as the BRT line.

 

[cspwal]

If the Polk bike lanes are any indication, metro is trying to put floating bus stops at every bus stop with room on dedicated high comfort lanes

[004n063]

3 hours ago, cspwal said:

If the Polk bike lanes are any indication, metro is trying to put floating bus stops at every bus stop with room on dedicated high comfort lanes

Slightly off-topic, but the intersection of Polk and Delano is hilarious to me. Northeast corner is one of the many newly (and quite well) redesigned stops where the bikeway goes around on the inside. 

The even newer stop on the southwest corner? Nothing. 

[Houston19514]

On 12/21/2022 at 8:40 AM, s3mh said:

I think Metro is making all of its bus stops compatible with the BRT busses with wide doors that open level with the ground.  

No, they are not.

18 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Yes, but the newer Boost stations (e.g. on Studewood) are elevated for level boarding. That's why I assumed this would be part of an expanded Boost service.

No. Boost stations are not elevated for level boarding.  Here's the new B
BOOST station at Studewood and Merrill. And the routes will operate with standard buses, not the low-floor variety used for BRT.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Houston19514

[004n063]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

No, they are not.

No. Boost stations are not elevated for level boarding.  Here's the new B
BOOST station at Studewood and Merrill. And the routes will operate with standard buses, not the low-floor variety used for BRT.

I guess I am confused - the ones I've seen along Studewood all looked to be a foot or so off the ground, maybe more. Even in that picture, I think it's more elevated than the wonky angle in the bottom right makes it look. 

I ride the 25 (not BRT) daily, and those platforms do looks to my layman's eye to be the same height as the boarding floor on all of the buses on that route. Granted, they're almost level with a regular curb already, but this seems like it would be more wheelchair-accessible than what is typical.

 

Edited to add: here's the station at 16.5 - note the difference between the regular curb and the platform:

Edited December 22, 2022 by 004n063

[cspwal]

6 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Slightly off-topic, but the intersection of Polk and Delano is hilarious to me. Northeast corner is one of the many newly (and quite well) redesigned stops where the bikeway goes around on the inside. 

The even newer stop on the southwest corner? Nothing. 

I think they couldnt get the row - they would have had to cut into the townhouses’ front yards. Though it is funny they redid the stop to be “ADA” accesible but didn’t add a bench

[hbg.50]

4 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I guess I am confused - the ones I've seen along Studewood all looked to be a foot or so off the ground, maybe more. Even in that picture, I think it's more elevated than the wonky angle in the bottom right makes it look. 

I ride the 25 (not BRT) daily, and those platforms do looks to my layman's eye to be the same height as the boarding floor on all of the buses on that route. Granted, they're almost level with a regular curb already, but this seems like it would be more wheelchair-accessible than what is typical.

 

Edited to add: here's the station at 16.5 - note the difference between the regular curb and the platform:

Yes, most of the bus stops on Studewood are 2-3 inches higher than the curb.  It’s not that noticeable unless you are looking for it.

[chempku]

Now I feel that the best solution could have been building some hike and bike trails along some neighborhood streets, just like the one on Nicholson St. Way less impact to vehicular traffic in this way. Property owners along the trail should like it also. 

I once saw the east bound traffic west of TC Jester extend all the way to Ella Blvd during afternoon rush hours. This is even outside of the project limit. Before the road diet was applied, there were already fewer options for drivers along W-E direction than N-S direction, based on how Greater Heights is designed. 

This project does not affect me, but I can feel the frustration for those who have to stuck in traffic longer. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by chempku

[Texasota]

As someone who has crossed 11th on foot before, this road diet is *more* than worth it if it slows drivers down and makes those crossings safer. 

Safety and comfort matter. 

[HoustonMidtown]

Didn't happen at this intersection, but shows the importance for safer crossings

 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2023/01/09/bicyclist-motorcyclist-killed-in-crash-in-downtown-houston-hpd-says/

 

 

[004n063]

1 hour ago, chempku said:

Now I feel that the best solution could have been building some hike and bike trails along some neighborhood streets, just like the one on Nicholson St. Way less impact to vehicular traffic in this way. Property owners along the trail should like it also. 

I once saw the east bound traffic west of TC Jester extend all the way to Ella Blvd during afternoon rush hours. This is even outside of the project limit. Before the road diet was applied, there were already fewer options for drivers along W-E direction than N-S direction, based on how Greater Heights is designed. 

This project does not affect me, but I can feel the frustration for those who have to stuck in traffic longer. 

The neighborhood streets tend to be pretty comfortable already, and while I would never complain about more trails, they're generally not needed on the side streets.

But 11th, Shepherd, and Durham, Heights, White Oak, Yale, and 19th are where all the stuff is, and of those, 19th is the only one that feels somewhat comfortable on a bike (and even then, only for more confident bicyclists). So it can be really hard to go places if those streets don't have protected lanes or segregated pathways.

It's basically the same logic as sidewalks, but because of how spread out even individual neighborhoods are, foot-based transport is not always practical. But for a neighborhood like the Heights, where functional biking is already exploding in popularity, it makes sense to lean into that trend.

[s3mh]

2 hours ago, chempku said:

Now I feel that the best solution could have been building some hike and bike trails along some neighborhood streets, just like the one on Nicholson St. Way less impact to vehicular traffic in this way. Property owners along the trail should like it also. 

I once saw the east bound traffic west of TC Jester extend all the way to Ella Blvd during afternoon rush hours. This is even outside of the project limit. Before the road diet was applied, there were already fewer options for drivers along W-E direction than N-S direction, based on how Greater Heights is designed. 

This project does not affect me, but I can feel the frustration for those who have to stuck in traffic longer. 

This has nothing to do with the bike lanes.  The traffic at TC Jester is due in part to unrelated construction (drainage project) and a poorly timed light.  The bike lanes are not going to go past Durham.  

So far, the bike lanes east of Heights Blvd are working great.  Traffic along 11th is moving along just fine, but without people ripping along like it is FM 1960.  I will say that it remains to be seen whether the changes to the intersection of Heights and 11th St. are gong to work.  Temporary signage is confusing, but the city has cleaned it up a bit with a big no turn sign on Heights SB and NB.  Hopefully, when complete, the signage will be easier to follow.    I am not sure that no right turns from 11th to Heights and no left turns from Heights to 11th is going to work that well.  But if it gets through traffic off of Heights and on to Yale, that would be good.

[chempku]

15 minutes ago, s3mh said:

This has nothing to do with the bike lanes.  The traffic at TC Jester is due in part to unrelated construction (drainage project) and a poorly timed light.  The bike lanes are not going to go past Durham.  

So far, the bike lanes east of Heights Blvd are working great.  Traffic along 11th is moving along just fine, but without people ripping along like it is FM 1960.  I will say that it remains to be seen whether the changes to the intersection of Heights and 11th St. are gong to work.  Temporary signage is confusing, but the city has cleaned it up a bit with a big no turn sign on Heights SB and NB.  Hopefully, when complete, the signage will be easier to follow.    I am not sure that no right turns from 11th to Heights and no left turns from Heights to 11th is going to work that well.  But if it gets through traffic off of Heights and on to Yale, that would be good.

Not true. I drive TC Jester and 11th St (West of the road diet) everday. 

At the construction site you mentioned, where 11th st are temporarily reduced to 2-lane from 4-lane, there is no increase in traffic west bound at all, but signicant increase in east bound traffic just after 11th st got one car lane taken away east of shepherd/durham. Before that there is way less traffic along 11th eastbound, even with the construction along 11th st between Ella Blvd and TC Jester. 

Many people may not realize that 11th and 20th are the only numbered streets cross TC Jester. Permanently taking away 50% of the capacity from one of the two streets is a huge impact. 

I don't know why planners won't consider building off-street trails along either 10th or 12th streets. There are plenty of underused ROW by open ditches. Spend less money, make everyone happy, and also improve drainage as a side benefit. Someone please educate me on this. 

[s3mh]

35 minutes ago, chempku said:

Not true. I drive TC Jester and 11th St (West of the road diet) everday. 

At the construction site you mentioned, where 11th st are temporarily reduced to 2-lane from 4-lane, there is no increase in traffic west bound at all, but signicant increase in east bound traffic just after 11th st got one car lane taken away east of shepherd/durham. Before that there is way less traffic along 11th eastbound, even with the construction along 11th st between Ella Blvd and TC Jester. 

Many people may not realize that 11th and 20th are the only numbered streets cross TC Jester. Permanently taking away 50% of the capacity from one of the two streets is a huge impact. 

I don't know why planners won't consider building off-street trails along either 10th or 12th streets. There are plenty of underused ROW by open ditches. Spend less money, make everyone happy, and also improve drainage as a side benefit. Someone please educate me on this. 

I have been in that traffic jam many times.  Once you get past the light at TC Jester, traffic flows just fine.  Bike lanes have nothing to do with it.  

Bike lanes on 11th st made sense because 11th st had become like FM 1960 with people hauling ass at 40-45 mph and weaving in an out of lanes.  Crossing the street at the bike path on Nicholson and just about anywhere else between Shep and Michaux was a nightmare.  

Also, putting bike lanes on 10th or 12th would have been exponentially more expensive and may not have even been feasible if they wanted to do it.  Those streets have minimal ROW and the ROW is all messed up in spots where fence lines are right up to the drainage ditches with no sidewalks on parts of the street.  And then there are utility poles all over the place in the ROW.  You would probably have to curb and gutter the street to be able to install bike lanes next to the sidewalks.  

[Ross]

46 minutes ago, chempku said:

Not true. I drive TC Jester and 11th St (West of the road diet) everday. 

At the construction site you mentioned, where 11th st are temporarily reduced to 2-lane from 4-lane, there is no increase in traffic west bound at all, but signicant increase in east bound traffic just after 11th st got one car lane taken away east of shepherd/durham. Before that there is way less traffic along 11th eastbound, even with the construction along 11th st between Ella Blvd and TC Jester. 

Many people may not realize that 11th and 20th are the only numbered streets cross TC Jester. Permanently taking away 50% of the capacity from one of the two streets is a huge impact. 

I don't know why planners won't consider building off-street trails along either 10th or 12th streets. There are plenty of underused ROW by open ditches. Spend less money, make everyone happy, and also improve drainage as a side benefit. Someone please educate me on this. 

20th doesn't cross TC Jester, it's 18th.

11th hasn't lost half of its capacity at all. The bike lanes were not part of the original plan for the road diet, which was intended to slow down traffic on 11th. The bike lanes were added later, when it was determined there is enough room for them. I live off of 11th, and haven't noticed any difference in flow.

10th and 12th have many stop signs, and are not really suitable for people riding bikes to commute or for anything other than some fun.

[TacoDog]

I drive through this intersection daily. The issue with 11th St. at TC Jester is there aren't any turn lanes, so traffic gets its own turn to turn left, but if a car has to yield to oncoming traffic in the left lane, then it backs up cars behind it. The same applies for right turns on red, 8 cars turn right but the 9th doesn't, blocking another 5 cars who could have gone. 

It was like this before the construction.

[Ross]

2 minutes ago, s3mh said:

I have been in that traffic jam many times.  Once you get past the light at TC Jester, traffic flows just fine.  Bike lanes have nothing to do with it.  

Bike lanes on 11th st made sense because 11th st had become like FM 1960 with people hauling ass at 40-45 mph and weaving in an out of lanes.  Crossing the street at the bike path on Nicholson and just about anywhere else between Shep and Michaux was a nightmare.  

Also, putting bike lanes on 10th or 12th would have been exponentially more expensive and may not have even been feasible if they wanted to do it.  Those streets have minimal ROW and the ROW is all messed up in spots where fence lines are right up to the drainage ditches with no sidewalks on parts of the street.  And then there are utility poles all over the place in the ROW.  You would probably have to curb and gutter the street to be able to install bike lanes next to the sidewalks.  

The speeding on 11th was way out of hand. I almost got hit from behind several times when I stopped, as required by the yield sign, to allow cyclists and pedestrians to cross at Nicholson. The curbs that separate the bike lanes are great - they require drivers to pay attention to driving, or destroy their wheels and tires.

[004n063]

2 hours ago, Ross said:

20th doesn't cross TC Jester, it's 18th.

11th hasn't lost half of its capacity at all.

In some ways, it has added capacity. Now carless fraidycats like me can use it. 

[JJxvi]

On 1/10/2023 at 2:22 PM, Ross said:

20th doesn't cross TC Jester, it's 18th.

11th hasn't lost half of its capacity at all. The bike lanes were not part of the original plan for the road diet, which was intended to slow down traffic on 11th. The bike lanes were added later, when it was determined there is enough room for them. I live off of 11th, and haven't noticed any difference in flow.

10th and 12th have many stop signs, and are not really suitable for people riding bikes to commute or for anything other than some fun.

No.  18th Street only crosses west TC Jester. 

The street you have to be on in the Heights to cross the bayou/ and TC Jesters without turning is 20th.  if youre on 18th street in the Heights driving west you have to turn left off of 18th St and onto 20th street to cross the bayou. Then at E TC Jester it changes back to 18th St. 

So..is 11th street predictably a cluster**** during rush hours yet?

 

[Ross]

4 hours ago, JJxvi said:

No.  18th Street only crosses west TC Jester. 

The street you have to be on in the Heights to cross the bayou/ and TC Jesters without turning is 20th.  if youre on 18th street in the Heights driving west you have to turn left off of 18th St and onto 20th street to cross the bayou. Then at E TC Jester it changes back to 18th St. 

So..is 11th street predictably a cluster**** during rush hours yet?

 

Not that I've noticed. Neither is Shepherd/Durham north of 11th, despite having only 2 lanes for some distance.

[editor]

5 hours ago, Ross said:

Not that I've noticed. Neither is Shepherd/Durham north of 11th, despite having only 2 lanes for some distance.

I accidentally ended up on the newly-calmed stretch of 11th Street last weekend, and it was quite nice.  Normally, making a left turn out of Buchanan's is problematic.  But with only one lanes are cars to cross, it's much easier.  Also, drivers do seem to have slowed down.

I waited longer for the bicyclists to clear than I did for the cars.

[hbg.50]

10 hours ago, JJxvi said:

 

So..is 11th street predictably a cluster**** during rush hours yet?

 

I drove 11th Street tonight at 6:00 from Michaux to N. Shepherd.  Michaux to Yale was fine, and contrary to what another poster mentioned you can still turn right on Heights Blvd. from 11th street.

Now Yale to N. Shepherd on 11th was a disaster.  Cars were backed up several blocks due to the light on N. Shepherd.  I turned left into the neighborhood and then made a right on 10th to get to my destination.  Normally I would turn left on Dorothy but the backed up traffic was ridiculous.  Guess what I did on my return trip…I came back on 10th Street to avoid 11th.  Sorry to my neighbors that live on 10th Street!

[Ross]

28 minutes ago, steve1363 said:

I drove 11th Street tonight at 6:00 from Michaux to N. Shepherd.  Michaux to Yale was fine, and contrary to what another poster mentioned you can still turn right on Heights Blvd. from 11th street.

Now Yale to N. Shepherd on 11th was a disaster.  Cars were backed up several blocks due to the light on N. Shepherd.  I turned left into the neighborhood and then made a right on 10th to get to my destination.  Normally I would turn left on Dorothy but the backed up traffic was ridiculous.  Guess what I did on my return trip…I came back on 10th Street to avoid 11th.  Sorry to my neighbors that live on 10th Street!

There's a new No Left Turn sign westbound on 11th at Dorothy. It's a little hidden behind the bus stop sign. I noticed that yesterday.

I really hope that as part of the Shepherd/Durham work they put a triangle median on 10th at Shepherd that stops people from crossing there to get to or from Kroger.

[IWantTransit555]

Is there anything that can be done about the interruptions of the bike lane barriers at the bus stops?

[004n063]

8 hours ago, IWantTransit555 said:

Is there anything that can be done about the interruptions of the bike lane barriers at the bus stops?

In general, yes - you build short cycle paths around (on the sidewalk side of) the bus stop. Most of the stops on Polk are solid examples of this. Not sure if there's ROW feasibility on 11th, though.

[chempku]

On 1/10/2023 at 2:20 PM, s3mh said:

I have been in that traffic jam many times.  Once you get past the light at TC Jester, traffic flows just fine.  Bike lanes have nothing to do with it.  

Bike lanes on 11th st made sense because 11th st had become like FM 1960 with people hauling ass at 40-45 mph and weaving in an out of lanes.  Crossing the street at the bike path on Nicholson and just about anywhere else between Shep and Michaux was a nightmare.  

Also, putting bike lanes on 10th or 12th would have been exponentially more expensive and may not have even been feasible if they wanted to do it.  Those streets have minimal ROW and the ROW is all messed up in spots where fence lines are right up to the drainage ditches with no sidewalks on parts of the street.  And then there are utility poles all over the place in the ROW.  You would probably have to curb and gutter the street to be able to install bike lanes next to the sidewalks.  

"Those streets have minimal ROW”

Not true. The ROW is never an issue for shared-use trails. 11th appears to be wider, however ROW width is not pavement width. If you measure it on HCAD maps, you will know the ROW for 10/11/12th streets are all 70'. In fact, 10' shared-use trails have been planed in streets only have 50' ROW in nearby neighorhoods. The only need is to cover the open ditches. 

Having cut-through bicycle traffic in those neighorhood streets are way better than cut-through motorvehicle traffic. I feel sorry for them for the lost opportunity. 

 

 

[Ross]

1 hour ago, chempku said:

"Those streets have minimal ROW”

Not true. The ROW is never an issue for shared-use trails. 11th appears to be wider, however ROW width is not pavement width. If you measure it on HCAD maps, you will know the ROW for 10/11/12th streets are all 70'. In fact, 10' shared-use trails have been planed in streets only have 50' ROW in nearby neighorhoods. The only need is to cover the open ditches. 

Having cut-through bicycle traffic in those neighorhood streets are way better than cut-through motorvehicle traffic. I feel sorry for them for the lost opportunity. 

 

 

Some of those side streets have stop signs almost every block, which is a disincentive for cyclists. And, part of the RoW is consumed by drainage ditches, which the City has shown no interest in replacing.

[s3mh]

1 hour ago, chempku said:

"Those streets have minimal ROW”

Not true. The ROW is never an issue for shared-use trails. 11th appears to be wider, however ROW width is not pavement width. If you measure it on HCAD maps, you will know the ROW for 10/11/12th streets are all 70'. In fact, 10' shared-use trails have been planed in streets only have 50' ROW in nearby neighorhoods. The only need is to cover the open ditches. 

Having cut-through bicycle traffic in those neighorhood streets are way better than cut-through motorvehicle traffic. I feel sorry for them for the lost opportunity. 

 

 

Covering the ditches is the reason the ROW is insufficient.  You have to curb and gutter the street if you are going to cover drainage ditches.  Otherwise the streets will turn into lakes whenever there is a decent downpour.  Curb and guttering streets is about a million for a few blocks.  It would be infinitely more expensive to put a bike path on the cross streets.

Having gone on 11th st a bunch of times during morning and evening rush hour since the build out and living near the alleged cut through streets, I am actually quite surprised at how well it is working and how little change in traffic there is (other than eliminating the Death Race 2000 that used to take place on 11th every day).