Grand Parkway Shoppes

[Gary]

This is something specifically designed for those who live in the middle of nowhere. I mean just look at the location. Thanks for the sprawl.

I just cannot believe the people will actually drive all the way out there for nothing. It's just BS. As RedScare stated, there is absolutely nothing special about this sprawl project.

No thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I live in Cimmeron and it is not out in the middle of nowhere. I understand that it's not downtown but this is a thriving area and growing by leaps and bounds. In fact if you will read the population statistics provided in the link above, you'll see there are almost 170,000 people within 7 miles of this new mall and by 2009 almost a quarter of a million people will be in the same area.

Certainly a little less cookie cutter would be nice, however there is a need for a mall out here. As waS stated before in this thread, Katy Mills is a huge outlet mall, it doesn't serve the need many here have for a standard mall.

Not everyone of us can live in urbania, some of us have certain needs which brings us to areas like Katy. Again I would prefer a great town center like Sugar Land (without the taxes) but I live in Katy and am looking forward to not having to drive to Memorial city.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Gary, as you know, there are some people (the hardest of the hardcore urbanist) who think 90% of the city should be situated on about four or five square miles. Anything outside that radius is "in the middle of nowhere."

You're not going to debate them into a softer stance so just grin and keep moving.

That said, the plot site for this is a bit on the secluded side simply because, for some odd reason, not a lot of the land on the north side of the Katy between the Grand and Westgreen Road has been developed. Seems like prime parcels for subdivisions, apartment complexes and the like. This is the type of scatterbrained, disjointed development that annoys me, but it's also a consequence of living in a free society. No one can put a gun to the head of the owners and MAKE them sell or develop their land unless issues of eminent domain prevail.

Take the Times Square development on the Grand Parkway. Seems a better, more logical decision, would've been to develop the property along Mason and the Katy, seeing as it is a more visable location right now...

[Gary]

Gary, as you know, there are some people (the hardest of the hardcore urbanist) who think 90% of the city should be situated on about four or five square miles. Anything outside that radius is "in the middle of nowhere."

You're not going to debate them into a softer stance so just grin and keep moving.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I agree with my sister and one of my good friends (both of whom live out that way) when they say trying to get over to West Oaks Mall or Memorial City is a hassle, especially at about 1:30 PM on a Saturday. I can see where having a mall (or mega-shopping center) at the Grand Parkway site would be more convenient for them.

[tomv]

Now speaking of the north side of 10, I'm curious as to why it seems to not have much retail development from about Silber all the way out of town. I know there are a few developments like IKEA, the area around Memorial city, and a few more I'm not thinking about, but It seems like all the development is on the South side. even the gas stations are on the south side.

Can you shed any light on this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Two reasons. The railroad tracks on the north side that are now gone always served as a physical and psychological barrier to potential shoppers. Plus, the south side has always been more affluent. Spring Branch vs. Memorial. If you were a retailer, wouldn't you prefer the latter? Interestingly, that pattern has held all the way out to the Katy area. The south side past Hwy 6 is in general more affluent than the north side, though of course there are many exceptions to that rule.

[Gary]

Two reasons.  The railroad tracks on the north side that are now gone always served as a physical and psychological barrier to potential shoppers.  Plus, the south side has always been more affluent.  Spring Branch vs. Memorial.  If you were a retailer, wouldn't you prefer the latter?  Interestingly, that pattern has held all the way out to the Katy area.  The south side past Hwy 6 is in general more affluent than the north side, though of course there are many exceptions to that rule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, good point on the railroad, I didn't consider that. Also your statement regarding the affluency of the south side is interesting. Obviously it's far more affluent from 610 to Dairy Ashford but I also have noticed this even in Katy. When looking for a home 2 years ago I noticed this right off the bat.

Interesting how this has taken place for such a long stretch, I guess around 26 miles.

[N Judah]

The Brookshire-to-downtown commute of the future (after the completion of I-10) will be the same, time-wise, as the current Mason-to downtown commute. The type of people who would've been moving to Cinco Ranch 5-10 years ago will be the ones moving even further out down I-10. In about 10 years you will not think that this mall is in the middle of nowhere, I can assure you that with 100% certainty.

[YakuzaIce]

Gary, as you know, there are some people (the hardest of the hardcore urbanist) who think 90% of the city should be situated on about four or five square miles. Anything outside that radius is "in the middle of nowhere."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^Well N Judah there will always be people like this.

I admit that I am kind of like this but not nearly as extreme especially considering I don't live in the loop. My main tiff is with suburbanites who have false views of what life is like in the city. Also the way many suburbs are being built these days and the mentality of how the new ones a few miles further out will likely leave the second then third, etc.. rings to rot. Rather than investing more in the land closer in.

[Casual Observer]

Hey, all you urban hippies - shut up, and let the developers build their mall. They would have built it somewhere closer, but obviously this was the best (read: CHEAPEST) deal. Stop acting like asses over the concept of people living outside the city-limits.

[YakuzaIce]

Hey, all you urban hippies - shut up, and let the developers build their mall. They would have built it somewhere closer, but obviously this was the best (read: CHEAPEST) deal. Stop acting like asses over the concept of people living outside the city-limits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey if you are talking to me I have not said anything bad about the mall. The closest thing I did say was in response to AWACS when I said I don't think the mall is built for people in the city because he said "I just cannot believe the people will actually drive all the way out there for nothing. It's just BS. As RedScare stated, there is absolutely nothing special about this sprawl project."

[HOUCAJUN]

Hey, all you urban hippies - shut up, and let the developers build their mall. They would have built it somewhere closer, but obviously this was the best (read: CHEAPEST) deal. Stop acting like asses over the concept of people living outside the city-limits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm worn out with this urban insanity. I wonder if some of these people are on zoloft.People start taking the whole pill instead of half.If you don't want to drive to katy to shop,dont. It's your right.Stop this insanity.

[N Judah]

Hey, it's not just urban enthusiasts who don't like the mall. I know of at least one Katy resident who isn't too fond of it

[Casual Observer]

Hey, it's not just urban enthusiasts who don't like the mall.  I know of at least one Katy resident who isn't too fond of it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would think a Katy resident would be the only one allowed to delicate flower about it then. The mall is going to effect their immediate community. It's not going to have any impact on Montrose, Midtown, or Myerland.

[RedScare]

I would think a Katy resident would be the only one allowed to delicate flower about it then. The mall is going to effect their immediate community. It's not going to have any impact on Montrose, Midtown, or Myerland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know that I'd go that far. All of these projects have an effect on all who live and work here, however slight. Some of the urban/suburban rhetoric is not useful either. WHY a particular project is harmful, plus what would be a better use, would be mor insightful and helpful to the forum readers.

I helped start this by complaining that this project was a regional mall without a roof. Let me expand on that. A mall without a roof IS an improvement, since it should waste less energy conditioning the air outside the stores. Otherwise, I find the layout uninspiring and an unattractive use of space.

The store layout still looks like a mall. It is an island marooned in a sea of asphalt. They could have placed the stores closer to a street, with parking behind, or created a grid with parking not the most visible feature. They did neither.

This is not the fault of poor subdivision dwellers who will have to trudge across hot asphalt to get to the shops (or "Shoppes"). It is clearly and unambiguously the fault of the developer and the architect, both of whom showed an uninspired and frankly, tired approach to this property. Houstonians should not accept poor planning and poor designs when it comes to development. Lazy developers and architects should be shunned, ideally with our wallets, but at least by calling them out on forums such as this.

Suburban living is a fact of life in a car oriented city that only recently is trying to create more transportation options. But that doesn't mean that suburbanites deserve thoughtless devolopment. Calling something a "Shoppe" doesn't make it quaint.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I admit that the Shoppes name is obnoxious and purile. I'm not a big fan of the name Times Square either. I would've prefered something more indigenous to the area, like Grand Parkway Square, Kingsland Square or something similar. Not all that exciting maybe but more a propos to the area.

[Houston19514]

I admit that the Shoppes name is obnoxious and purile. I'm not a big fan of the name Times Square either. I would've prefered something more indigenous to the area, like Grand Parkway Square, Kingsland Square or something similar. Not all that exciting maybe but more a propos to the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't find the word "purile" in my dictionary. Can you define for us please?

[pineda]

I can't find the word "purile" in my dictionary. Can you define for us please?

I think TGH meant "puerile", which means lacking a certain maturity, Houston19514...

[The Great Hizzy!]

Misspelling.

[RedScare]

I think TGH meant "puerile", which means lacking a certain maturity, Houston19514...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I learned a new word today. Thanks, Hiz (you too, pineda).

You're right, "Shoppes" is puerile.

[VicMan]

"Gary, as you know, there are some people (the hardest of the hardcore urbanist) who think 90% of the city should be situated on about four or five square miles. Anything outside that radius is "in the middle of nowhere.""

Heck, in 2000 New York County (Manhattan) had 1,537,195 in 23 square miles - All of New York had 8,085,700 in 468.9 square miles.

In other words, Manhattan had 19% of the city in 23 square miles (4.9% of the land).

What if Manhattan had the same density, but was only 5 square miles large? And what if Manhattan was 90% of New York?

1,537,195/23 = about 48,037 per square mile

48,037*5=about 240,186 in the five square miles.

240,186 is to 90 as n is to 100.

240,186(100) = 90n

24,018,600 = 90n

about 266,870 = n

Therefore one cannot cram 90% of the people of the city of Houston into 5 square miles if Manhattan's current population density is the maximum limit of a population density.

EDIT: Fixed a slight error

[The Great Hizzy!]

90% = hyperbole

But it was no less fun reading your equation.

[eelimon]

This is great I grew up in Katy and a mall was always in the plans for this location ever since the late 70's. It is an educated guess, but the real estate bust of the early 80's stopped any plans for a mall for quite some time. I am glad it happened that way, b/c now the concept of a "town center" in the near future will hopefully lead into a denser utilization of all that wasted space they call a parking lot. I now live downtown and open parking lots are an issue here as well. What we need is to put a limit on sprawl.

I am all for total urbanism, but let

[eelimon]

Oh it would be nice if someone went to the area and took some pictures and posted them on here I am not about to drive out to Katy just to see the site. I will wait until it is complete. OR I may drive out there when I go see the parents.

[pineda]

flyer for proposed shopping center

[editor]

So, they're building a 100,000 square foot strip mall (sorry... "Community Center") next to a 900,000 square foot regular mall. What's the point? To catch the overflow of all the dollar stores and other crappy businesses that didn't make it into the mall? If they're really trying to make a "community center" then they should make it a park or something the community actually needs.

[Subdude]

When I am proclaimed King of the World (which I'm sure is bound to happen any day now ), one of my first decrees will be to ban the use of extraneous "e"s by developers. No more "shoppes", no more "townes".

While I'm at it, I think I'll also ban neighborhood names like "NoDo".

[nmainguy]

Interfin usually doesn't build crap so maybe this won't be so bad-but it does look like any other bland, no imagination commercial developement for Cinemark.

[RedScare]

Lest anyone think that this is just ANOTHER badly named, poorly designed, strip center/mall combo, remember this is a repeat of another thread on this development....

Come to think of it, this IS just another badly named, poorly designed, strip center/mall combo...just one we already knew about.

[houstonsemipro]

I don't care y'all see this sprawl, or another crappy strip mall. But, I'll see more jobs in the Houston area, and I think this is great.

I know I'll be there.

[Guest danax]

The previous HAIF topic where this project was discussed, "Mall in Katy?", from April '05 has been merged into this one.

I prefer the La Centerra project to this one but regardless, suburbia needs car oriented shopping centers. Young families don't always have the time luxury of being able to get out and walk along urbanesque pathways, stopping at sidewalk cafes to sip coffee and people watch.

As for the no-sprawl mentality; this is the cradle of Houston's future civilization. This is where the construction boom, baby boom and consumption boom are all happening. 20-40 year olds making $85K on up per household who have gotten themselves into a situation where they have no choice but to spend money as fast as they make it.

The sooner our wide-open spaces gets filled in, the sooner projects where density considerations are a requirement, not a chic design element, will be built en masse.