I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[editor]

On 6/25/2023 at 5:33 PM, hindesky said:

Everything but the slabs are gone.

Is this the neighborhood that the Chronicle said used to be known as Scorpion Town or something like that before the freeway came through?  There was a pretty extensive article about its impending doom a few months ago. 

If this becomes a detention basin with a park in it, it would be nice for there to be a monument or something nearby showing what it used to be.

[hindesky]

3 minutes ago, editor said:

Is this the neighborhood that the Chronicle said used to be known as Scorpion Town or something like that before the freeway came through?  There was a pretty extensive article about its impending doom a few months ago. 

If this becomes a detention basin with a park in it, it would be nice for there to be a monument or something nearby showing what it used to be.

Scorpion Town sounds like it in what is called Frost Town according to this article where the Elysian Viaduct was created.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Archaeologists-A-Houston-neighborhood-called-15073904.php

[editor]

1 minute ago, hindesky said:

Scorpion Town sounds like it in what is called Frost Town according to this article where the Elysian Viaduct was created.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Archaeologists-A-Houston-neighborhood-called-15073904.php

The article I'm thinking of is more recent than that one, because that one was published before I moved back to Houston. 

I'm pretty sure it was earlier this year, and it was tied into the I-45 demolition.

[Houston19514]

I think Scorpion was another name for Frost Town. I don't think Frost Town was located where Clayton Homes were.  I think it was a little further west.  I believe there is a historical marker in James Bute Park.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Houston19514

[Triton]

NHHIP-Central-Houston-to-FHWA-Package-II-040722.pdf

Hadn't seen this doc on here before. It's from April of last year, so fairly recent.

It includes a breakdown of everything the city is trying to incorporate into this project including a breakdown of all the costs per section.

[hindesky]

The former Clayton Homes property is part of the IH45 realignment but also a phase of the South Canal Diversion and Detention project.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure/North-Canal-Project-2022-March.pdf

[004n063]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

The former Clayton Homes property is part of the IH45 realignment but also a phase of the South Canal Diversion and Detention project.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure/North-Canal-Project-2022-March.pdf

Good lord. Even years into knowing about this project, that second image is pretty shocking.

[Triton]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

The former Clayton Homes property is part of the IH45 realignment but also a phase of the South Canal Diversion and Detention project.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure/North-Canal-Project-2022-March.pdf

Dumb question.... why don't they just build the diversion but fill in that older section of Buffalo Bayou? Would potentially be more land for parks directly connected to any nearby development. I guess maybe it's not worth the cost.

[004n063]

21 hours ago, Triton said:

NHHIP-Central-Houston-to-FHWA-Package-II-040722.pdf 20.41 MB · 5 downloads

Hadn't seen this doc on here before. It's from April of last year, so fairly recent.

It includes a breakdown of everything the city is trying to incorporate into this project including a breakdown of all the costs per section.

That was a really interesting document. Really shows how much of a net win this could be for downtown.

[samagon]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

The former Clayton Homes property is part of the IH45 realignment but also a phase of the South Canal Diversion and Detention project.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure/North-Canal-Project-2022-March.pdf

this is good to see.

the underlying question to my thoughts around this area is that on the TXDOT stuff it says 'potential'. but I would think that the foundations would need to be designed from the beginning with either all this stuff set, or not.

[004n063]

I am a little confused and a little concerned about the "Trenched Highway" (in other places referred to as the "I-45 Connector") here. I was under the impression that all of the westside 45 infra was being decomissioned, but I guess I was wrong. I guess this is a long, roundabout ramp from southwest downtown to I-45? My issue is that while a trenched highway with a pedestrian bridge is better than what we have now, it's still a noise moat (think of the last time you walked across one of the Montrose/Museum bridges over 59 - not exactly pleasant).

Again, there are a lot of nice possibilities with this project. If the fully realized, the pedestrian and bike access and comfort in and around downtown will be hugely improved. And I really like how much of the garden bridges funding will be provided by TXDoT - that gives me a lot of confidence about their becoming a reality.

But it also seems like the extent to which this will reduce the feeling of highway dominance in the area will be sort of minor. 

[TXK]

My understanding is this basically maintains the exits/entrances to Pease, Jefferson, Allen, etc. on that side of downtown without them being directly off the 45 main through lanes like they are now. Hopefully that reduces speeds/noise over there? Probably one of the better designs they could've used to keep connectivity with downtown.

But to your larger point, reducing the visual prominence of these highways was why I was hoping for a teardown of the Pierce Elevated.

[Triton]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:01 PM, 004n063 said:

I am a little confused and a little concerned about the "Trenched Highway" (in other places referred to as the "I-45 Connector") here. I was under the impression that all of the westside 45 infra was being decomissioned, but I guess I was wrong. I guess this is a long, roundabout ramp from southwest downtown to I-45? My issue is that while a trenched highway with a pedestrian bridge is better than what we have now, it's still a noise moat (think of the last time you walked across one of the Montrose/Museum bridges over 59 - not exactly pleasant).

Again, there are a lot of nice possibilities with this project. If the fully realized, the pedestrian and bike access and comfort in and around downtown will be hugely improved. And I really like how much of the garden bridges funding will be provided by TXDoT - that gives me a lot of confidence about their becoming a reality.

But it also seems like the extent to which this will reduce the feeling of highway dominance in the area will be sort of minor. 

On top of what TXK said, this will become a spur (do we have an official name yet?). 

[springcityparts]

What is the purpose of this lefter from Central Houston to FHWA? I read it as if Central Houston is backing away from footing the bill for some of these improvements, but maybe because federal dollars may now be available to fund these so-called civic opportunities?

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

TXDOT is installing barricades around the empty lot next to Graffiti Park. Talked with the same TXDOT worker I saw at the old Mexican Consulate lot they now own. At that time he mentioned they were going to install them here too. He said they have gotten lots of complaints from the neighborhood about crimes being committed here and by city council person who is over the district. He said Sekai uses it for valet parking and they don't have a contract to do so. Again he doesn't know a timeline for construction since he and his crew work for the maintenance division of TXDOT. The highway realignment is the responsibility of the construction division. He mentioned they will be installing more as business move out and they buy more properties between the current feeder and St Emmanuel St.

He mentioned the barricades came from a piece of property TXDOT owns at Long Dr. and IH610 south loop. Said they will finish today.

Interesting tidbit but unrelated to this, he mentioned that TXDOT is turning over ownership of Allen Parkway to the city. He seemed to think it could be turned in more Buffalo Bayou parkland if the city decides to go that way with it.

[editor]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

TXDOT is installing barricades around the empty lot next to Graffiti Park. Talked with the same TXDOT worker I saw at the old Mexican Consulate lot they now own. At that time he mentioned they were going to install them here too. He said they have gotten lots of complaints from the neighborhood about crimes being committed here and by city council person who is over the district. He said Sekai uses it for valet parking and they don't have a contract to do so. Again he doesn't know a timeline for construction since he and his crew work for the maintenance division of TXDOT. The highway realignment is the responsibility of the construction division. He mentioned they will be installing more as business move out and they buy more properties between the current feeder and St Emmanuel St.

He mentioned the barricades came from a piece of property TXDOT owns at Long Dr. and IH610 south loop. Said they will finish today.

Interesting tidbit but unrelated to this, he mentioned that TXDOT is turning over ownership of Allen Parkway to the city. He seemed to think it could be turned in more Buffalo Bayou parkland if the city decides to go that way with it.

Imagine a pedestrianized Allen Parkway…

[IWantTransit555]

6 hours ago, editor said:

Imagine a pedestrianized Allen Parkway…

Imagine not widening freeways in 2023...

[august948]

I'll trade you a pedestrianized Allen Pkwy for wider freeways.  Win win!

[Big E]

5 hours ago, IWantTransit555 said:

Imagine not widening freeways in 2023...

They're not even widening the freeway...

They are just moving the other existing freeway to the opposite side of downtown, necessitating the large amount of acquired land.

[samagon]

9 hours ago, Big E said:

They're not even widening the freeway...

They are just moving the other existing freeway to the opposite side of downtown, necessitating the large amount of acquired land.

yep, billions of dollars to not even make it wider. what a boondoggle. 

[mattyt36]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:45 PM, Triton said:

On top of what TXK said, this will become a spur (do we have an official name yet?). 

Great question--here's another one--what was the name of the street that was there to begin with?

In this map from 1950, the US 75 alignment was essentially the same around downtown and it was even then called the "North Freeway."  Interestingly, Memorial was called the "Memorial Freeway," even though Allen Parkway was called the "Buffalo Expressway" (was called Buffalo Drive at one point).  Wonder what the distinction was.  Not to mention the confusion with Buffalo Speedway, which also existed at the time.

Houston Street Map 1950 - Maps - Houston Public Library Digital Archives (oclc.org)

In this from 1890, looks like Bagby in Midtown was Burnett and Heiner was Stanley, with the area where 45 being large lots without streets.

 

1 hour ago, samagon said:

yep, billions of dollars to not even make it wider. what a boondoggle. 

Many moons ago, I recall, not widening the freeway was one of the criteria that you said would lead to your supporting the project.  Quelle surprise.

Edited July 12, 2023 by mattyt36

[Subdude]

1 hour ago, mattyt36 said:

Great question--here's another one--what was the name of the street that was there to begin with?

In this map from 1950, the US 75 alignment was essentially the same around downtown and it was even then called the "North Freeway."  Interestingly, Memorial was called the "Memorial Freeway," even though Allen Parkway was called the "Buffalo Expressway" (was called Buffalo Drive at one point).  Wonder what the distinction was.  Not to mention the confusion with Buffalo Speedway, which also existed at the time.

Houston Street Map 1950 - Maps - Houston Public Library Digital Archives (oclc.org)

In this from 1890, looks like Bagby in Midtown was Burnett and Heiner was Stanley, with the area where 45 being large lots without streets.

 

Many moons ago, I recall, not widening the freeway was one of the criteria that you said would lead to your supporting the project.  Quelle surprise.

Cool find. And it has Lamar as Lomax.

[hindesky]

Barricaded off.

 

[hindesky]

Removing the foundations.

[hindesky]

North of IH 10 near downtown.

[Big E]

On 7/17/2023 at 2:02 PM, hindesky said:

North of IH 10 near downtown.

Land looks cleared and ready to go. I'm ready for this to gone ahead and start.

[JLWM8609]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:45 PM, Triton said:

On top of what TXK said, this will become a spur (do we have an official name yet?). 

I'm guessing it'll be an unsigned I-145 or Business Spur I-45 

 

On 7/11/2023 at 1:44 PM, hindesky said:

 

Interesting tidbit but unrelated to this, he mentioned that TXDOT is turning over ownership of Allen Parkway to the city. He seemed to think it could be turned in more Buffalo Bayou parkland if the city decides to go that way with it.

I thought COH owned Allen Parkway? I can't find it in TxDOT's files. 

[hindesky]

I wonder if Saint Arnold will be affected by the realignment?

[JLWM8609]

6 hours ago, hindesky said:

I wonder if Saint Arnold will be affected by the realignment?

St. Arnold will be spared https://www.txdot.gov/content/dam/project-sites/nhhip/docs/nhhip-segment-3-i-10-rollplot-ph-2-2.pdf