I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[hindesky]

So I went by the Clayton Homes to see if I could see any damage from the fire. Turns out it was only one of the 31 buildings in the complex in the very back. Several news stations reported it was vagrants who were cold so they started a fire to warm up. The sooner they demo these the better. There doesn't exist a fence that will keep a determined vagrant out of a building, especially if they are seeking warmth.

This gate is usually wide open. Now they have three security guards with cars.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by hindesky

[Big E]

I really don't know why they haven't just torn them down yet. They should go on and get it over with.

[samagon]

13 hours ago, Big E said:

I really don't know why they haven't just torn them down yet. They should go on and get it over with.

because you saw the field day that the stopi45 people had with the lofts by the light rail that were torn down for the i45 project. if TXDoT doesn't want the negative press associated (and it appears they've learned), they keep these things standing until the very last minute.

[Big E]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:30 AM, samagon said:

because you saw the field day that the stopi45 people had with the lofts by the light rail that were torn down for the i45 project. if TXDoT doesn't want the negative press associated (and it appears they've learned), they keep these things standing until the very last minute.

These are literally mold infested derelicts. Nobody wants to live in them. Nobody should live in them. Nobody would even be allowed to live in them, even if they wanted to. There is literally no reason not to tear them down. The Lofts were relatively new apartments and completely livable, though even those protests were stupid. This has no real justification.

[samagon]

11 hours ago, Big E said:

These are literally mold infested derelicts. Nobody wants to live in them. Nobody should live in them. Nobody would even be allowed to live in them, even if they wanted to. There is literally no reason not to tear them down. The Lofts were relatively new apartments and completely livable, though even those protests were stupid. This has no real justification.

I agree, you are 100% right, but it all depends on who is driving the narrative, and how it is framed.

[Houston19514]

I'm not sure TxDoT owns the portion of Clayton Homes being discussed.  They will at some point, of course, but it appears they do not yet own them. The portion TxDoT has already acquired (the north side) has already been demolished.

[hindesky]

HFD looks like they are doing training on how to properly cut roof access to help put a fire out.

 

[deb bonario-martin]

Thank you I will stop by again soon to see if there's anything else about Northline.

[hindesky]

Two blocks of the future IH 45 have been blocked off by concrete lane dividers. The Graffiti building block and the block north of Commerce St. south of Canal St. and along the IH 69 feeder Road.

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

Plumbing demo permit.

[hindesky]

In this first pic you can see the plumbing demo work has been done here. Excavator is on site, assume it was doing the digging for the plumbers.

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

So I saw a Texas Department of Transportation worker at the old Mexican Consulate site on San Jacinto/Caroline St. that the TX Dot now owns. He was cutting the lock on it and replacing it with another one. He said whoever put it on didn't tell anyone the combination to it. The worker worked for the maintenance division. I asked him when they were going to start on the project but he said he didn't know a timeline. I asked if this will be a lay down yard and he said no it will be part of the new highway and they now one several parcels in the area.

I then asked him about the highway dividers at Graffiti Park and at the site along the feeder by Commerce St and Canal. He confirmed they put them there. He also said lots of people had complained about both sites with people parking in them at both sites. Complaints about people burning their tires at both and dumping trash and abandoned cars/trucks at both, so they installed the barricades. He also said Sekai didn't have permission to use it for parking their customers cars so they closed the circle at Graffiti Park. He also said companies were using them to valet park peoples cars which they had no permission to do. He also said they are going to place dividers on the block north of Graffiti Park.

[GrapefruitTea]

Apologies if this was already posted. Proposed timeline of work.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/harris-county-i-45-rebuilding-project-houston-18073985.php#photo-23784922

"the first project considered part of the larger rebuild is an $86.1 million project to upgrade drainage through EaDo, just east of Interstate 69 between I-45 south of downtown and Buffalo Bayou"

 

 

[j_cuevas713]

Wow yeah F that, 20+ years!? And they wouldn't start on the capped park section until 2031. I've been on the fence about this for a while but this schedule just convinced me this is not what we need. 

[Luminare]

4 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Wow yeah F that, 20+ years!? And they wouldn't start on the capped park section until 2031. I've been on the fence about this for a while but this schedule just convinced me this is not what we need. 

Its a project worth well over $9 Billion, they still have to get all the land, perform demo, etc... and its one of the busiest highways in the city...yeah its going to take a long time to do this. Should it take 20 years? Probably not. My guess is that this is a very conservative estimate on the timeline. I think most big highway jobs anyway take between 5-10 years, but certainly current economic conditions, inflation, and labor shortages are going to make projections for this very conservative to start off. If we go into a recession, experience deflation, and easing in the labor market then that might help accelerate the timeline. I don't know why now all the sudden this has convinced you that this isn't needed. The whole point of a project like this is that it isn't necessarily about our current needs, but for future needs, and yes that means it won't be finished on the timeline you think it will happen. I'm honestly curious what you thought the timeline would be. If one isn't familiar with civil projects, or timelines for projects of this scale then I can understand why someone might think this is crazy, but it really isn't. Its going to take a long time, lots of traffic, lots of headache, but when else would be a better time? This highway is in the worst shape of any of the other highways. This is the last big highway in Houston that hasn't had a significant rebuild to current standards. Take 290, which took forever. I think that one was 10 years. Its a much better highway now. Last time I was in Houston I was amazed at how quickly you can get from Downtown to Cypress for instance. By the way. If this money were to instead go to train infrastructure it would still take 10-15 years. There are certainly quicker ways to do this, but this is typical government timeline. Take it or leave it.

[j_cuevas713]

31 minutes ago, Luminare said:

Its a project worth well over $9 Billion, they still have to get all the land, perform demo, etc... and its one of the busiest highways in the city...yeah its going to take a long time to do this. Should it take 20 years? Probably not. My guess is that this is a very conservative estimate on the timeline. I think most big highway jobs anyway take between 5-10 years, but certainly current economic conditions, inflation, and labor shortages are going to make projections for this very conservative to start off. If we go into a recession, experience deflation, and easing in the labor market then that might help accelerate the timeline. I don't know why now all the sudden this has convinced you that this isn't needed. The whole point of a project like this is that it isn't necessarily about our current needs, but for future needs, and yes that means it won't be finished on the timeline you think it will happen. I'm honestly curious what you thought the timeline would be. If one isn't familiar with civil projects, or timelines for projects of this scale then I can understand why someone might think this is crazy, but it really isn't. Its going to take a long time, lots of traffic, lots of headache, but when else would be a better time? This highway is in the worst shape of any of the other highways. This is the last big highway in Houston that hasn't had a significant rebuild to current standards. Take 290, which took forever. I think that one was 10 years. Its a much better highway now. Last time I was in Houston I was amazed at how quickly you can get from Downtown to Cypress for instance. By the way. If this money were to instead go to train infrastructure it would still take 10-15 years. There are certainly quicker ways to do this, but this is typical government timeline. Take it or leave it.

I mean I'm not naive to any of this. I get it's going to take time but I guess it just made me realize how much longer we have to wait for areas of this city to see real change. I also understand this is a NEED for this city. And yeah I'm not excited about this project exceeding 20 years but it is what it is. Thanks

[Luminare]

16 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I mean I'm not naive to any of this. I get it's going to take time but I guess it just made me realize how much longer we have to wait for areas of this city to see real change. I also understand this is a NEED for this city. And yeah I'm not excited about this project exceeding 20 years but it is what it is. Thanks

Thats why I asked haha. I don't think you are naïve. You did sound frustrated, and I get that. There is no project more frustrating than a government project. That is for certain!

[mfastx]

Under construction for 20 years haha. Man I wish we would spend $9B on transit once in awhile. 

[Big E]

I mean, if you are familiar with the Big Dig, this shouldn't come as a surprise. Most of the construction took place between 1991 and 2007, the better part of two decades, but project planning and preliminary studies actually started back in 1982, and the project was discussed as far back as the early 70s.

[004n063]

12 hours ago, Big E said:

I mean, if you are familiar with the Big Dig, this shouldn't come as a surprise. Most of the construction took place between 1991 and 2007, the better part of two decades, but project planning and preliminary studies actually started back in 1982, and the project was discussed as far back as the early 70s.

Yeah, I really have no problem at all with how long the project is expected to take. But it's sad to think that the grand vision of Houston in 2050 is still not just car-centric, but car-centric-suburb-centric.

I am somewhat optimistic, however, about the effects of twenty years of construction traffic on mindsets. Maybe it will convince more of the public to push harder for better alternatives? And/or that driving 20+ miles a day is kinda crazy?

[august948]

47 minutes ago, 004n063 said:

Yeah, I really have no problem at all with how long the project is expected to take. But it's sad to think that the grand vision of Houston in 2050 is still not just car-centric, but car-centric-suburb-centric.

I am somewhat optimistic, however, about the effects of twenty years of construction traffic on mindsets. Maybe it will convince more of the public to push harder for better alternatives? And/or that driving 20+ miles a day is kinda crazy?

What if car-centric-suburb-centric was the most practical grand vision?

[004n063]

19 minutes ago, august948 said:

What if car-centric-suburb-centric was the most practical grand vision?

I mean, if they plan on doubling or tripling tax rates, then maybe? But I don't think that's going to happen.

Perpetual suburban sprawl is not fiscally sustainable for core cities, period. It's why Houston is a rich city with the local transportation infrastructure of a poor city.

It may be politically expedient in the HGAC paradigm, but that doesn't automatically make it practical.

*Note: this is a critique of the paradigm that makes the NHHIP arguably the best feasible option (though I think the project's wins are almost entirely concentrated in the downtown-adjacent portions of the project, and even there they're mixed in with some considerable downsides), not of the NHHIP itself.

There is a conceivable universe in which most urban residents live within a short walk or bicycle ride of work, errands, and/or useful transit connections thereto, and most suburban residents have the same (the difference being, perhaps, the types, frequency, and degree of grade-separation of rail vehicles).

In fact, this is not just a conceivable universe, but an existing one. For all of the reasonably well-deserved credit a city like Amsterdam receives, it's its suburbs that really blow the American "equivalents" out of the water. (Seriously - go check out some Dutch suburbs. They're amazing.)

And if that feels too much like another planet, there are some decent examples in the US - the DC suburbs are probably the best example - that could still serve as a better model for a long-term Houstonia vision than the exurban status quo. 

No, that's not within the scope of a single project. But we're talking about a 2050 vision. A transit-connected web of walkable/bikeable nodes is not an absurdity - it's just something that won't happen without a sustained and coordinated regionwide vision. 

And I don't think it's unreasonable to express some disappointment at the lack of any such vision evident in the NHHIP timeline, even if it isn't really news. You (and others, I'm sure) may find complaints like mine tiresome, but I spend about two hours a day experiencing the city and region's disdain for non-drivers firsthand, and for as long as that that status quo continues, I'll continue to complain about it.

[Ross]

1 hour ago, 004n063 said:

 

There is a conceivable universe in which most urban residents live within a short walk or bicycle ride of work, errands, and/or useful transit connections thereto, and most suburban residents have the same (the difference being, perhaps, the types, frequency, and degree of grade-separation of rail vehicles).

 

Working for the same employer, I've had 5 different work locations in Houston in a little over 20 years. Are you saying I should move every time my work location changes? Sell the house we love in the neighborhood we want to be in, and move somewhere else? That's not going to happen. You are also not going to convince people to give up their houses with garages and some amount of yard to move into apartments.

I am not a huge fan of the 45 project, but it is not realistic to think that everyone is going to move into Central Houston.

[004n063]

1 hour ago, Ross said:

Working for the same employer, I've had 5 different work locations in Houston in a little over 20 years. Are you saying I should move every time my work location changes? Sell the house we love in the neighborhood we want to be in, and move somewhere else? That's not going to happen. You are also not going to convince people to give up their houses with garages and some amount of yard to move into apartments.

I am not a huge fan of the 45 project, but it is not realistic to think that everyone is going to move into Central Houston.

If that's what I seemed to be suggesting, then that's a failure of articulation on my part. I'm talking about the development pattern of endless exurban sprawl of McMansiony developments that could never feasibly be connected by transit. 

I'd like to see a long-term vision that embraces and encourages coalescence around a transit-connected regional nodal network. I want people to have options, regardless of which part of the city they live in. Requiring car ownership for a moderately comfortable quality of life is not a really humane way to organize a city.

[hindesky]

[samagon]

I'll ride this hyperbole train with you.

On 5/6/2023 at 9:28 AM, august948 said:

What if car-centric-suburb-centric was the most practical grand vision?

then we're probably doomed as a species.

 

On 5/6/2023 at 12:54 PM, 004n063 said:

If that's what I seemed to be suggesting, then that's a failure of articulation on my part. I'm talking about the development pattern of endless exurban sprawl of McMansiony developments that could never feasibly be connected by transit. 

I'd like to see a long-term vision that embraces and encourages coalescence around a transit-connected regional nodal network. I want people to have options, regardless of which part of the city they live in. Requiring car ownership for a moderately comfortable quality of life is not a really humane way to organize a city.

I think the youtube channel Not Just Bikes summed up how unsustainable the American suburb is from a cost perspective.

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by samagon

[august948]

44 minutes ago, samagon said:

I'll ride this hyperbole train with you.

then we're probably doomed as a species.

For most of human existence we've roamed the land living in far flung groups of minimal density.  Suburbia is closer to our native habitat.  We will survive.

[cspwal]

We didn't have giant concrete ribbons with buried water & sewer pipes travesering the land when we lived in far flung groups.  Also, Kingwood (pop. 77,951), to choose a random suburb, contains far more people in a relatively small area than the entire state of Texas did for centuries.