I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[hindesky]

The Chron version without the paywall.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-highway-expansion-i-45-17664647.php?IPID=Chron-HP-Latest-News

[Triton]

Called it! Only took a few weeks after the midterms. It was too politically risky to do anything beforehand. 

[Triton]

So now that I've had sometime to go over what was released... People against this project have to realize that it appears nothing has changed whatsoever to what TXDOT has previously agreed to far before this "compromise" was declared? Some of this text is word for word what I saw at the TXDOT workshops in Midtown and in Northside years ago. I can't seem to find any new schematics but this appears to be a joke and if this was going to go forward like this, then there should have never been this delay. It's all theatrics. 

[Houston19514]

Yup.  Years of delay, and greatly increased costs. Houston/Harris County leadership has failed us again.s  

We need better.

[kennyc05]

1 hour ago, Triton said:

So now that I've had sometime to go over what was released... People against this project have to realize that it appears nothing has changed whatsoever to what TXDOT has previously agreed to far before this "compromise" was declared? Some of this text is word for word what I saw at the TXDOT workshops in Midtown and in Northside years ago. I can't seem to find any new schematics but this appears to be a joke and if this was going to go forward like this, then there should have never been this delay. It's all theatrics. 

Yep they pretty much just waisted time! Specifically the county. But at least the people who are having to relocate are getting more money now.

[Houston19514]

19 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

Yep they pretty much just waisted time! Specifically the county. But at least the people who are having to relocate are getting more money now.

Not sure that's even the case. There is VERY little, if anything, in the MOU that was not already planned and set out in the FEIS and ROD.  They could have accomplished more for the "displaced" residents and others they are purporting to protect if they had refrained from wasting the money and time invested in this silly PR exercise and had instead used the time and resources to honestly attempt to accomplish something.  

Edited December 20, 2022 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Not sure that's even the case. There is VERY little, if anything, in the MOU that was not already planned and set out in the FEIS and ROD.  They could have accomplished more for the "displaced" residents and others they are purporting to protect if they had refrained from wasting the money and time invested in this silly PR exercise and had instead used the time and resources to honestly attempt to accomplish something.  

Indeed, much of that relocation language is straight from federal requirements that already exist.  The added stuff (e.g., "personal relocation specialist") seems more for optics. 

[j_cuevas713]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Yup.  Years of delay, and greatly increased costs. Houston/Harris County leadership has failed us again.s  

We need better.

"The compromise comes after TXDOT agreed to a series of demands from community leaders, including assurances that public housing in the path of the project would be replaced elsewhere. The agreement also includes promises of flood mitigation projects, connected neighborhoods, green space and enhanced public transit."

Not sure how this is a fail but ok

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said:

"The compromise comes after TXDOT agreed to a series of demands from community leaders, including assurances that public housing in the path of the project would be replaced elsewhere. The agreement also includes promises of flood mitigation projects, connected neighborhoods, green space and enhanced public transit."

Not sure how this is a fail but ok

Because everything TXDOT "agreed to do" were things they had already included in their plans.  Including replacement of public housing (and then some), flood mitigation, connecting neighborhoods, green space and enhanced public transit.  It's all in the FEIS and ROD.

This was kabuki theater at its finest...

Edited December 20, 2022 by Houston19514

[j_cuevas713]

3 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Because everything TXDOT "agreed to do" were things they had already included in their plans.  Including, replacement of public housing (and then some), flood mitigation, connecting neighborhoods, green space and enhanced public transit.  It's all in the FEIS and ROD.

When did they agree to replace public housing? The originally agreed to pay displaced residents and business owners a certain amount. Green space? The original plans didn't call for much green space other than the idea of a cap park created by private entities. My hope is that the agreement focused on what Houston First wants to do downtown by adding park connections to a future green loop. Flood mitigation and "connecting neighborhoods" was a given. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by j_cuevas713

[Houston19514]

27 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

When did they agree to replace public housing? The originally agreed to pay displaced residents and business owners a certain amount. Green space? The original plans didn't call for much green space other than the idea of a cap park created by private entities. My hope is that the agreement focused on what Houston First wants to do downtown by adding park connections to a future green loop. Flood mitigation and "connecting neighborhoods" was a given. 

From the ROD.  I suggest you read the FEIS and the ROD. It's interesting how much of the MOU language is taken directly from the FEIS and ROD.

"NHHIP Mitigation for Housing and Community Impacts

TxDOT will offer direct financial assistance to affordable housing providers to support specific affordable housing initiatives. The eligible initiatives include construction of affordable single-family or multi-family housing, and support of programs that provide assistance and outreach related to affordable housing. This affordable housing mitigation commitment is budgeted for $27 million and will be coordinated with local partners to administer these funds effectively. Assistance will be directed towards those neighborhoods most impacted by the NHHIP. It is important to note that this $27 million affordable housing commitment is separate and apart from, and is above and beyond the funding for the acquisition, relocation and enhanced relocation services for the directly impacted residential properties.

Additionally, displaced residents will be offered enhanced relocation assistance in the form of individual advisory services for the purpose of locating a suitable replacement property. These services will be provided by qualified personnel employed by, or contracted with, TxDOT. In providing these services, TxDOT will consider language needs, mobility restrictions and other special provisions that might be needed to communicate these services to displaced residents. These services are intended to guide the affected residents through the process and facilitate the transition into their new residence."

 

Interesting that you view flood mitigation and "connecting neighborhoods" as a given. The MOU treats them exactly the same way it treats the other topics, i.e., as if they are happening because of the MOU with the City, not as a given.

a few more tidbits from the ROD:

"In negotiations, HHA requested that TxDOT take an additional four buildings (28 units) for the purpose of creating more green space at the apartment complex."

Improve greenspace along Little White Oak Bayou with connecting trails to Woodland Park and Moody Park	Provide an opening at Little White Oak Bayou under I-45 north of Quitman Street for a trail to connect Woodland Park and Moody Park.

Visual and aesthetic impacts	Where practicable, include landscape plantings and revegetation per TxDOT's Green Ribbon Landscape Improvement Program Coordinate with local groups and agencies to accommodate enhancements to standard landscaping and recreational use of open space in and around storm water detention areas, where feasible. Wet bottom detention basins will be considered if a partner entity agrees to maintain them. Provide miscellaneous aesthetic improvements along Heights Bike Trail between Taylor Street and Main Street

In the final design phase, TxDOT will consider the City of Houston’s request that TxDOT adopt, design, and build new highway components with a neutral theme so that highway elements visually recede and green landscaped components become more prominent, to the extent practicable.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Houston19514

[j_cuevas713]

4 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

From the ROD.  I suggest you read the FEIS and the ROD.

"NHHIP Mitigation for Housing and Community Impacts

TxDOT will offer direct financial assistance to affordable housing providers to support specific affordable housing initiatives. The eligible initiatives include construction of affordable single-family or multi-family housing, and support of programs that provide assistance and outreach related to affordable housing. This affordable housing mitigation commitment is budgeted for $27 million and will be coordinated with local partners to administer these funds effectively. Assistance will be directed towards those neighborhoods most impacted by the NHHIP. It is important to note that this $27 million affordable housing commitment is separate and apart from, and is above and beyond the funding for the acquisition, relocation and enhanced relocation services for the directly impacted residential properties.

Additionally, displaced residents will be offered enhanced relocation assistance in the form of individual advisory services for the purpose of locating a suitable replacement property. These services will be provided by qualified personnel employed by, or contracted with, TxDOT. In providing these services, TxDOT will consider language needs, mobility restrictions and other special provisions that might be needed to communicate these services to displaced residents. These services are intended to guide the affected residents through the process and facilitate the transition into their new residence."

 

Interesting that you view flood mitigation and "connecting neighborhoods" as a given. The MOU treats them exactly the same way it treats the other topics, i.e., as if they are happening because of the MOU with the City, not as a given.

Yeah I'll def take a look. The only agreement I can see the city making is the plan they have for the green loop downtown. I know they wanted a modified design to better connect those pocket parks along the loop. Hopefully we get more details but yall could very well be right that nothing really changed and it was all nonsense. 

[Houston19514]

12 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Yeah I'll def take a look. The only agreement I can see the city making is the plan they have for the green loop downtown. I know they wanted a modified design to better connect those pocket parks along the loop. Hopefully we get more details but yall could very well be right that nothing really changed and it was all nonsense. 

Read the FEIS and the ROD.  But also carefully read the MOU. TXDOT's "commitments" are very general and, as mentioned above, often use the same language they used in the FEIS and ROD.

[Triton]

5 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

"The compromise comes after TXDOT agreed to a series of demands from community leaders, including assurances that public housing in the path of the project would be replaced elsewhere. The agreement also includes promises of flood mitigation projects, connected neighborhoods, green space and enhanced public transit."

Not sure how this is a fail but ok

None of us disagree. As @Houston19514 pointed out, it's just all the same material packaged in a different form... Well, actually, some of it is the same exact wording we've been hearing for years too.

Here's the truth no one is admitting. A very active group came forth.. They went to the news, they went everywhere. The politicians had no choice but to either take action or potentially face primary challenges. They chose action, even though they knew from the beginning that they would do lip service, claim some sort of victory and push forward the same exact plan all along. But the cost of what they did was push back a project that should have started a while ago, now at a very expensive cost. If anyone really thinks this project is still going to cost $9 or $10 billion, they are kidding themselves. 

 

[samagon]

it's not like the people fighting are not seeing the same words as everyone here. in fact, the day the stories were running about this MOU, the IG rallying against the project posted a message stating pretty much that it was a show.

once the glow of agreement wears off, the stories are going to run of exactly what you are all stating, the waste of time and money all for theatrics to try and hide that they did nothing, and it will be worse for them and the process.

they would have been better off doing something meaningful, or not having done anything in the first place. and at the end of the day, there's still the block from the FHWA, so no progress. well, except that one area near 59 before 288 that has been cleared.

[Houston19514]

OR, they could have provided some honest leadership, including by demonstrating how the cynical opponents (assisted by the clueless/dishonest local media) were misleading the public.  Please note, everyone, that the list of "accomplishments." which matches lists of things already included in the project, ALSO happens to match what the project opponents complained about, i.e., the project opponents either didn't understand the full proposal/plans or were deeply dishonest and cynical.

[mattyt36]

3 hours ago, samagon said:

they would have been better off doing something meaningful, or not having done anything in the first place. 

Gotta love truisms presented as insight.

3 hours ago, samagon said:

and at the end of the day, there's still the block from the FHWA

Didn't the County originate the complaint with FHWA?  If the County now has an MoU with TxDOT, doesn't that almost guarantee they will withdraw their complaint, or the complaint will be settled outside of the project proceeding, assuming someone else doesn't make a (or assume the) complaint?  If the County withdraws its complaint, surely that withdrawal will say the issues have been resolved to its satisfaction, surely complicating any future complaint along the same lines.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

OR, they could have provided some honest leadership, including by demonstrating how the cynical opponents (assisted by the clueless/dishonest local media) were misleading the public.  Please note, everyone, that the list of "accomplishments." which matches lists of things already included in the project, ALSO happens to match what the project opponents complained about, i.e., the project opponents either didn't understand the full proposal/plans or were deeply dishonest and cynical.

I hope there's an honest postmortem to find out who (or what organization) was really instigating this--I highly doubt it was organic from the people actually directly affected.  It seemed like 1950s/1960s era highway opposition cosplay.

It's also worth noting that Mealer did not make this a campaign issue (at least not that I saw), and I actually think it would've been a great one to convince voters that she was attuned to more substantive issues than the constant fearmongering.  But, as I recall at least at one point, Mattress Jesus was against the project, so maybe that's why.  Google "Alexandra Mealer I45" or "Alexandra Mealer NHHIP" and you get nothing.  Bizarre to me.

[Amlaham]

I can't WAIT for them to start by removing the billboard infested corridor 🤩

[Texasota]

These freeway fetishists sure are sore winners.

[kennyc05]

8 minutes ago, Amlaham said:

I can't WAIT for them to start by removing the billboard infested corridor 🤩

It's mainly just billboards on the westside of freeway that's where most of the land is being taken north of 610.

[mattyt36]

27 minutes ago, Texasota said:

These freeway fetishists sure are sore winners.

An absolutely perfect encapsulation of the real "substance" of the opposition right there.

Edited December 21, 2022 by mattyt36

[Texasota]

The refusal to accept that other people actually disagree with you is a truly stunning level of narcissism.

This is a huge, complicated, and, at very best, imperfect project. The vast majority of power in the decision-making process lies with TXDOT. 

You are getting your freeway with (apparently) no real concessions. How exactly are you playing the victim here? 

[mattyt36]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

The refusal to accept that other people actually disagree with you is a truly stunning level of narcissism.

This is a huge, complicated, and, at very best, imperfect project. The vast majority of power in the decision-making process lies with TXDOT. 

You are getting your freeway with (apparently) no real concessions. How exactly are you playing the victim here? 

Trust me, I have no illusions about people disagreeing with me.  What's narcissistic is to think that because a small subset of people are opposed to freeways, that policy decisions should be made that way.  In your words, "the refusal to accept that the VAST MAJORITY of people actually disagree with you is a truly stunning level of narcissism."  Who died and made you king?

You have said nothing of substance, other than that more concessions should've been made by TxDOT because . . . you disagree?  Because that's essentially what you said.  (Well, actually you didn't even manage to say that, so I am left to infer . . . as I said, you're the perfect encapsulation of the substance of the opposition.  Good thing this tilting at windmills will cost only about $2 billion in the end . . . think of how all that money could've been used for transit.)

C'mon, do a little self-awareness meditation, buddy.  You're obviously in some strange self-reinforcing mind loop.  (Maybe construct a 20-lane bypass up there and it'll provide you with some relief.)

Edited December 21, 2022 by mattyt36

[samagon]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

The refusal to accept that other people actually disagree with you is a truly stunning level of narcissism.

This is a huge, complicated, and, at very best, imperfect project. The vast majority of power in the decision-making process lies with TXDOT. 

You are getting your freeway with (apparently) no real concessions. How exactly are you playing the victim here? 

I blocked mattyt36, that person is not interested in any kind of understanding, they are always attacking someone, rather than the actual argument, and then putting up all sorts of statements without providing any actual data to back up their claims.

whether this project goes forward or not, this forum, and this thread in particular is a more pleasant place without reading their commentary.

[Amlaham]

2 hours ago, Texasota said:

These freeway fetishists sure are sore winners.

My post literally doesn't even mention the highway 😂 I thought I was clear, I'm talking about the billboards/ excessive signs all ALONG the highway. Let's admit it, the i45 corridor is an EYESORE, its legit flat out UGLY. Honestly, if the highway was kept how it is, but trees/ landscape were planted, have some kind of organization of signs/ billboards, I wouldn't mind it one bit. I understand that more could be done with that amount of money, but at this point we have to look at the very bright side, the area around the highway is going to look aesthetically prettier.

I'm always going to go for beautification of any area! We desperately need it 😂

Edited December 21, 2022 by Amlaham

[ADCS]

3 hours ago, Texasota said:

These freeway fetishists sure are sore winners.

The "freeway fetishists" oppose this project, because they think the teardown of the Pierce is giving the "urbanists" an inch too far.

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, samagon said:

I blocked mattyt36, that person is not interested in any kind of understanding, they are always attacking someone, rather than the actual argument, and then putting up all sorts of statements without providing any actual data to back up their claims.

whether this project goes forward or not, this forum, and this thread in particular is a more pleasant place without reading their commentary.

Ohhhhhh Sammy please know I wear your blocking as a badge of honor.  It's also invigorating each and every time you bring it up, as I just love to know how much I have "stuck" with you, especially considering the number of others on here who see the exact same thing in terms of your hollow rhetoric.  I'll be presumptuous and ask on their behalf as well as mine, "Tell us--what exactly do we not understand?"  Enlighten us.  All that's been presented is:

-You're against it because you fancy yourself an "urbanist" (OK, fine, I guess that's level 1 of an argument--it usually boils down to something like, "Man, I went to Philadelphia and they have a train to the airport!"  Or "New Yorkers get around with a car, why can't we?"  Or "Man, Europe has trains, and aren't they great"--all true of course, but maybe the next time you're in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, DC, San Francisco, etc. take a drive around the suburbs and tell me how really different they are, at the end of the day, from Houston's)

-Why don't we just build trains?  (I'm certainly not against it, but please explain your theory of how this is practical given the current composition of State government, not to mention all of the local governments, who residents think that the City of Houston is Fallujah Lite thanks to the local media and Republican political candidates.  Also, please cite a single example of a modern transit system that has been built in the U.S. that had material impacts on constraining suburban and exurban development--there isn't one because they don't exist!)

-It's going to destroy neighborhoods (this is the 1960s anti-highway cosplay here--the argument is absurd in scale--we're not talking about ramming a highway through thousands of houses in Fells Point here)

-It's going to disproportionately affect low income and minority residents (I guess so, but this is not a function of "evil government" going into a wholly intact minority/low income neighborhood and slashing and burning as they did with the first generation of highways--this is a function of where the existing right of way is and what land uses are like along the existing right of way) 

-It's only going to lead to more VMT (well, yeah, that's the point)

-It's only going to lead to more congestion (well, I'd say regional population growth and continued suburban development is more of the culprit there--call me when the State of Texas allows for extra-jurisdictional development cordons)

-It's going to increase emissions (not as much of an issue in the long-term as it has been in the past thanks to EVs)

In any case, I believe the substance of your argument boiled down to the personal inconvenience of a long construction period.  On 5/17/2022, I in fact stated that I totally "understood" such a position as reasonable:

On 5/17/2022 at 4:03 PM, mattyt36 said:

makes complete and total sense and is entirely defensible!  

"Understanding" does not mean "agree with."  

What you have never--not once--addressed or substantively responded to (nor has @Texasota here, whose criticism is that one's "refusal to accept that other people actually disagree with [one] is a truly stunning level of narcissism" while also calling people "freeway fetishists"--man, irony is completely lost on some people, isn't it?--it's, shall we say, truly stunning, in fact) is this idea because you are personally opposed to the project that that somehow should automatically result in its cancellation, its redesign, reprogramming of funds to other projects, etc.  The myopia is astounding.  We somehow have to consider the opinions of the less than 5K people directly affected (many of whom have already moved!) while putting aside the opinions of literally millions of others who are also affected. You continue to insist to pick from a menu of options that do not exist.  This is a political process.  The fact of the matter is there is very little political opposition to the project.  And what little there is is totally incoherent.

If you disagree with how the State of Texas funds or designs highways, then maybe an effective political campaign would start there, not at the eleventh hour after an almost 20-year process.  Trust me, I'd sign up if it was internally logical and not some circus of entirely misguided progressive protests (that, I still hold were probably being done on the dime of, and at the behest of, very moneyed political interests).  I've said before this "freeway fetishist" lives in a household of 2, with 1 car, now 7 years old, with a whopping 32K miles on it.  I'm sure Sammy drives circles around me every day on his never-ending quest to stand up for the "little man" himself.

(Also, my pronouns are he/him, not they/their, but I'm happy to use that for you in the future Sammy, if you like.  I know you have a tendency to project.)

[Triton]

And the county has dropped the lawsuit. And since the federal government relies on local input, they'll be soon to follow. 

Quote

During a special meeting on Dec. 22, Harris County Commissioners Court voted unanimously to approve a memorandum of understanding between the county and the Texas Department of Transportation concerning the NHHIP, as well as dismiss the previous lawsuit filed over the project. This comes after Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner’s Dec. 19 press conference with local and state officials to announce the city’s MOU for the project.

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2022/12/22/harris-county-signs-mou-nhhip.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search

[Big E]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one am glad that all this BS stalling has ended. This project has been held up long enough. The sooner it starts, the sooner it ends. The whole region has been waiting in limbo for this to finally start happening. It needed to happen sooner, if only to prevent the costs from skyrocketing, but better late than never.

[Triton]

I missed the conversation before I posted.

Discussing this project is fine but all the personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated and will result in a temporary suspension from the site.