Downtown Needs To Market Itself

[Texasota]

I would generally agree that marketing is premature. Increasing the downtown population is by far the most important thing right now, so I'm glad money is being spent on that.

 

I think it's better to look at downtown as a neighborhood; in general, people spend the most time in their neighborhood, and the closer to the urban core you get the smaller a "neighborhood" becomes.

People in Montrose might not go downtown very often, because why would they? Everything they need is within Montrose. And at roughly 8,000 people per square mile, its high enough density to support itself. Of course it also gets tons of "tourists" from the suburbs, but businesses need a reliable stable population to start with for any chance of success. As downtown increases in density, it will start to provide that stable base that can then be built off of.

[lockmat]

With respect to your coworker, he seems especially clueless about the world very near around him.  One wonders what kind of marketing would be effective with respect to such a person.

 

 

I think a billboard would reach the most clueless person.

 

What would give him the impression there are places to live downtown? Not much.

[lockmat]

There is no need to market. Residential in Downtown already stays at near full capacity. Why market to people apartments which are not available to them? It's a waste of resources. If the new buildings struggle with occupancy, then maybe it will be needed.

 

Which is weird. If occupancy is so high, wouldn't that drive demand for construction? It took incentives and an economic boom to get it going.

[IronTiger]

How often does the average Houstonian visit: Nasa/Space Center Houston, The Galleria, Reliant Stadium etc? Probably 1-2 times per year at most.

(bolded for emphasis)

I have a hard time believing that.

[lockmat]

(bolded for emphasis)

I have a hard time believing that.

 

people who like to shop probably visit it often. I live ten minutes away and I've only been like once in two or three years, but I'm not a big shopper. But that's just me, one example.

[IronTiger]

Well, Galleria has about 26 million visitors a year, and Houston has about 2 million people. If Houstonians (not suburbanites or out of towners) went an average of 1-2 times a year, that would be only 4.2 million visitors a year from Houstonians (a statistical average). That would mean the other 85% are all people from the suburbs or out of town. That's just not possible.

[Houston19514]

I think a billboard would reach the most clueless person.

 

What would give him the impression there are places to live downtown? Not much.

 

Not so sure about that...   If high-rise buildings lined top to bottom with individual balconies don't do the trick, not sure a billboard will get it done.  ;-)   I have a feeling that someone who goes to House of Blues and is unaware of the complex to which it is attached could easily go through life without noticing billboards telling him there are residences downtown. 

 

[ArchFan]

I would rather we invested in being the best Houston we can be, rather than in crowing to outsiders about how wonderful we are.  (I think we would get more satisfaction in the end if we focused on "going to the gym" rather than constantly looking in the mirror.)   Does anyone else remember the contest/advertising campaign the convention and visitors bureau conducted in national print media, offering free all-expense-paid trips to Houston?  We wound up being ridiculed in the national press because (as i recall) only one person was interested enough to enter the contest.

 

 

[mollusk]

dunno... offhand, while I'm perfectly OK with the idea of advertising a particular attraction or event, an ad campaign that invariably is going to end up along the lines of "Come to Downtown Houston!  We Promise Not to Point and Laugh Visibly When You Send A Passenger Out to Try to Help You Parallel Park Your Suburban!" is a little...um...needy and insecure, perhaps.

[Howard Huge]

A few things...

1) I don't care if anyone from Katy or the Woodlands ever comes downtown, thats not who we need to try to impress or beg to come downtown, that makes zero sense when everything they need (shopping, dining, entertainment/nightlife) is available where they live.

2) The people we need to "impress" or try to give a brilliant downtown to are the RESIDENTS of downtown/midtown, the 50,000 people who work downtown, and the large numbers of people visiting downtown for business or a convention or people from out of town who want to visit our downtown to see what its like

Those are the people who need the amenities that our downtown lacks.

I cant tell you how many times ive asked convention goers from the GRB and who are staying in a Hotel downtown what they think about our city and our downtown.

9 times out of ten it is a negative response, and these are all people wanting to simply WALK out of their hotel and find these things within walking distance...

"Its very dead around here, especially at night, its like a ghost town"

"Theres nothing to do or see right around the GRB, besides the park"

"There isnt any shopping around here" (most of them remark about the lack of ground floor retail that you see in most other downtowns)

"There isnt a movie theatre downtown" (please dont bring up sundance, not everyone is a douchey film elitist who likes the smell of their own farts, im talking about a NORMAL movie theatre that shows all of the blockbuster movies, Loews, AMC, etc)

"There is a SEVERE lack of hotel rooms downtown, I always have a hard time booking a room in downtown houston"

3) As far as downtown residents (including myself), Im sure there is a laundry list of things we wish were downtown and that we didnt have to get in a car to drive out to but that is a whole other thread

[arche_757]

^ I think the idea of marketing Downtown isn't to bring in people from Katy and The Woodlands there on the weekends, but to market it as a 24/7/365 destination for live/work/play.  The more people in Houston know about Downtown the more options may suddenly open up if more and more people want to come down there for the day.

 

Residents of these places need to be very vocal to retail.

 

Ok, maybe the average Houstonian visits about 2-4 times per year (at most).  I don't consider driving by/shopping elsewhere in the area a "visit" nor do I consider stopping at Cheesecake Factory a visit.  And I don't like people calling Uptown - The Galleria - its not.  The Galleria is a trademarked shopping mall.  Uptown is the district.  Just my two cents.

[IronTiger]

Ok, maybe the average Houstonian visits about 2-4 times per year (at most). I don't consider driving by/shopping elsewhere in the area a "visit" nor do I consider stopping at Cheesecake Factory a visit. And I don't like people calling Uptown - The Galleria - its not. The Galleria is a trademarked shopping mall. Uptown is the district. Just my two cents.

Yeah, but you can't yourself as a good indicator of the "average" even if you think of yourself as an "average" person. Even when I was waking up at 6:30 to watch most of the entire Kids WB Saturday Morning block a decade and a half ago, I still watched far less TV than the TV watching average.

[Texasota]

I really don't think marketing "Downtown" itself right now makes any sense.

 

"Come to Downtown!"

 

Ok...why?

 

Come to EVENT X at Discovery Green this weekend!
Come see a movie in Market Square!

Come to 300 Main Block Party!

 

Oooh, there's a lot going on down here now! Maybe I'd like to live here!

 

Aw but there's nowhere to live downtown!

 

Woo they're subsidizing new residential buildings downtown!

 

Aww but they're all "luxury" and "high end."

 

 

* This was an excerpt of how the average me thinks.

[arche_757]

Yeah, but you can't yourself as a good indicator of the "average" even if you think of yourself as an "average" person. Even when I was waking up at 6:30 to watch most of the entire Kids WB Saturday Morning block a decade and a half ago, I still watched far less TV than the TV watching average.

 

I'll grant you two things:  I'm far from average.  You may or may not be correct!

 

And of course I'm not really accurate.  I've spent WAY more time at the MFA or Menil or Brazos Books than I will ever spend at The Galleria.  I still think the majority (I'll give 51%) of Houstonians probably spend less money and time at The Galleria than you think?  The great news is that with all the activity in Uptown we will see more and more people traveling to/living in that area as it is close to a lot of the amenities they will want.  BLVD Place + Uptown Park will help further move that area along.

 

I really think that if Midway Cos. can help further along GreenStreet that we will see a bigger clip in Retail activity than currently moving along in Downtown.  Retail that people like = an area that is attractive even if it isn't your cup of tea (so to speak).  I still think something cool needs to happen at Sakowitz.

 

Years ago I sketched up a plan that included a few upper end retail establishments: Vic Secrets + Whole Earth Provisions and a Brazos Books-like bookstore and an urban-organic grocer that included a rooftop cafe & bar in/on the Sakowitz building.  The Grocer had those oversized escalators + the retail stores were along the ground floor with 2 levels for the lingerie store (thought that would be kind of cool).

[livincinco]

Yeah, but you can't yourself as a good indicator of the "average" even if you think of yourself as an "average" person. Even when I was waking up at 6:30 to watch most of the entire Kids WB Saturday Morning block a decade and a half ago, I still watched far less TV than the TV watching average.

 

To quote George Carlin "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

 

I will now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...

[IronTiger]

My point was that there's going to be people that spend WAY more time at the Galleria (more trips) than you or I ever would, skewing the average significantly and driving up the "number of visitors" at the Galleria.

I think there are three questions at the core, all of them distinct and different but similar:

1) Are people living in downtown satisfied with what they have downtown, or do they need to leave for the simplest of things (entertainment, basic shops)?

2) Are Houstonians and others that identify as Houstonians (these include suburbanites living in the ETJ) ashamed of or proud of their downtown?

3) Would tourists ever consider downtown Houston as something to see in Houston?

[Howard Huge]

Quote name="IronTiger" post="455089" timestamp="1396379925"]

My point was that there's going to be people that spend WAY more time at the Galleria (more trips) than you or I ever would, skewing the average significantly and driving up the "number of visitors" at the Galleria.

I think there are three questions at the core, all of them distinct and different but similar:

1) Are people living in downtown satisfied with what they have downtown, or do they need to leave for the simplest of things (entertainment, basic shops)?

2) Are Houstonians and others that identify as Houstonians (these include suburbanites living in the ETJ) ashamed of or proud of their downtown?

3) Would tourists ever consider downtown Houston as something to see in Houston?

Yep.

Thats pretty much everything I was trying to say in my previous post.

Living downtown, all too often I find myself having to DRIVE to the Galleria to shop, or DRIVE to Marq-E to see movies or a big name comedy show, or drive to a Wal-Mart or Target for my basic big box store need, or DRIVE to HEB to grocery shop.

Night life is about the only thing I dont have to drive to in downtown/midtown.

But what I wouldnt give to be able to not leave midtown/downtown and go to a:

1) Target

2) Marshalls/Tj Maxx

3) H&M

3) Macys (I used to frequent the Main st location)

4) A non-indie movie theatre (Edwards, Loews, AMC)

5) Another grocery store like an HEB (not a specialty store like Phoenicia)

6) A 100% leased greenstreet with more than just bars and restaurants, im talking a wide selection of interesting and fun retail

A man can dream right?

[HoustonIsHome]

I always wondered why anyone would think a regular mall type shopping experience would flourish in a place like downtown Houston.

I really think what is needed is an entertainment boost. Uptown is a draw for obvious reasons, so is Montrose. Downtown has come along a little on daytime snd evening events but it is still sorely lacking.

I also think people would feel more comfortable walking around downtown if they saw more of themselves. Lots of business professionals hidden in caverns but few real people.

I've noticed more people walking their dogs on travis and near DG, we need more of that. More families. More people with kids and less of those luxury apartments for singles.

I also want to step out on any of the major corridors (Main, Texas, Travis, Dallas, Fannin, Walker,Smith, McKinney Louisiana, etc) and pick up some hot dogs or burgers or something. We have awesome good downtown but I'm thinking of cheap possibly get you sick greasy street vendor food. But for that I guess the tunnel crowd would have to feel that it's safe to come out.

[IronTiger]

I've noticed more people walking their dogs on travis and near DG, we need more of that. More families. More people with kids and less of those luxury apartments for singles.

Nope. It would be a hard draw for have families with children in downtown, as I can't think of any downtown area in North America where people are raising a family in a downtown area that are middle to middle-upper class. There are plenty of places in the Inner Loop to raise a family but downtown isn't one of them (partially due to the lack of parks and schools)

[ArchFan]

Nope. It would be a hard draw for have families with children in downtown, as I can't think of any downtown area in North America where people are raising a family in a downtown area that are middle to middle-upper class. There are plenty of places in the Inner Loop to raise a family but downtown isn't one of them (partially due to the lack of parks and schools)

 

I certainly agree, although when I was downtown lunchtime on a recent Friday, I was surprised at seeing quite a few parents taking their kids to DG.  My guess is that they lived within the loop, but not downtown.  Whatever the reason, it was nice to see human beings going there for other reasons than being compelled to compete in the rat race.

 

My opinion is that (at least in terms of collective effort) we need to focus on the downtown residential initiative, at least for a few more years.  My expectation is that amenities that cater to a larger resident base will arise naturally, as entrepreneurs and chains recognize opportunities to expand.  I think that will include entertainment venues, in addition to restaurants and stores for groceries and other stuff.

[IronTiger]

I certainly agree, although when I was downtown lunchtime on a recent Friday, I was surprised at seeing quite a few parents taking their kids to DG. My guess is that they lived within the loop, but not downtown. Whatever the reason, it was nice to see human beings going there for other reasons than being compelled to compete in the rat race.

Because DG is a destination. I saw a lot of people at Klyde Warren Park in Dallas that probably did not live downtown but were there anyway because it's a large urban park (well, as for as urban parks go anyway).

For downtown, I don't think anyone needs to worry. Things are happening in a positive direction, and advertising tends to look desperate when done wrong (driven by Northwest Mall lately?)

[totheskies]

Not advocating that at all. Would the same entity giving these incentives be the ones doing the marketing? I thought the TIRZ was related to the city but Central Houston (or is it Houston First?) is it's own entity? In that case Central Houston (or HF) would market it. Maybe they run on a super tight budget, but doesn't mean they can't raise money for it.

 

The Downtown District has been marketing more aggressively than ever before... just not in Houston or to Houstonians. 

 

My friends in other areas of the country say they're hearing about Houston just as much as they do cities like LA or Chicago now, and that includes downtown.  I've had friends from Arkansas and Chicago ask me about downtown Houston.  My friend from Arkansas even said that she never knew that Houston had "such a beautiful downtown"... she just always heard Houston was nasty and not worth visiting. 

 

I'm glad the perception is changing rapidly, but I agree it's time to devote a few of those dollars to encourage Houstonians to rediscover downtown. 

 

[IronTiger]

she just always heard Houston was nasty and not worth visiting

I think that's leftover from the 1970s and 1980s, a combination of the decline of downtown and the fact that Houston was pretty grimy at one time (bayous were filthy, rampant air pollution, etc.)

[HoustonIsHome]

Nope. It would be a hard draw for have families with children in downtown, as I can't think of any downtown area in North America where people are raising a family in a downtown area that are middle to middle-upper class. There are plenty of places in the Inner Loop to raise a family but downtown isn't one of them (partially due to the lack of parks and schools)

You missed my point entirely on one hand while advocating said point.

I said we need to see more families downtown, as in we need things that make them make the trip there. If you read a little ahead of that point, I had just mentioned that we had come a little way in terms of daytime and nighttime entertainment but my point is we need more. I never once said we need to impprt families to live in downtown and force them to walk the streets aimlessly. That is kinda silly to assume that the people would just be out for being out sake

[IronTiger]

I said we need to see more families downtown, as in we need things that make them make the trip there. If you read a little ahead of that point, I had just mentioned that we had come a little way in terms of daytime and nighttime entertainment but my point is we need more. I never once said we need to impprt families to live in downtown and force them to walk the streets aimlessly. That is kinda silly to assume that the people would just be out for being out sake

Right. Which brings us back to "What is there to do downtown"? There's the observation deck and the tunnels, both of which are kind of cool but those aren't open on weekends. There's no museums, those are downstream in the Museum District.

[cloud713]

You missed my point entirely on one hand while advocating said point.

I said we need to see more families downtown, as in we need things that make them make the trip there. If you read a little ahead of that point, I had just mentioned that we had come a little way in terms of daytime and nighttime entertainment but my point is we need more. I never once said we need to impprt families to live in downtown and force them to walk the streets aimlessly. That is kinda silly to assume that the people would just be out for being out sake

 

agreed.. thats part of why my repurposing of the George R Brown roof includes a public sports complex. downtown needs more family friendly amenities. the closest sports complex i can find to downtown (besides the hobo basketball court downtown) is at Emancipation Park, and the baseball field there is (at least according to Google Earth, i know its getting renovated) in terrible condition, and the 2 tennis courts probably arent much better. someone mentioned something about sports fields near the bayou? im not sure where those are at or what amenities are there, but if your looking to play Football or Soccer anywhere near downtown it would appear you are SOL. and i think a sports complex on the roof of GRB would be much more popular than Emancipation Park with not only the downtown residents since its right down the new light rail, but also with people from all over the inner city. how cool would it be to play sports on the roof of GRB, in an urban environment, overlooking the downtown skyline? its sure to be popular. and the TopGolf is an obvious success waiting to happen.. those things do insanely well in the suburbs. imagine how well one would do in an urban format.

then in my GreenStreet sketch i had a residential/more family oriented tower above the garage, with a private park on the other half of the garage, and then public park space for GS visitors/downtown residents above the old books-a-million whole side of that block, and possibly another small private park space above Forever XXI for the hotel guests. then something like putt putt golf for the kids/families, above Lucky Strike. and finally open that outdoor rooftop patio space at the old SkyBar for luncheons and a cool night time hang out, ect.

 

Right. Which brings us back to "What is there to do downtown"? There's the observation deck and the tunnels, both of which are kind of cool but those aren't open on weekends. There's no museums, those are downstream in the Museum District.

yeah the observation deck is cool, but i feel not enough people know about it. Discovery Green is awesome, needs a better way to advertise upcoming events than just their website. then of course you have the theater district, restaurants, sports, church on sundays, or even hospital visits (lol). and the Nau will sort of be a museum, though i believe the official designation is "heritage/cultural center"

[rechlin]

and the Nau will sort of be a museum, though i believe the official designation is "heritage/cultural center"

 

To me, it is more of a museum-sized advertisement for other museums.  I think the goal is to make it so that when people from out of town go to George R Brown for a convention, they stop by there, see all the other things Houston has to offer, and hopefully venture out after the conference to check out the other sights.  Maybe even plan a trip with family to Houston in the future to visit them.

 

[HoustonIsHome]

Right. Which brings us back to "What is there to do downtown"? There's the observation deck and the tunnels, both of which are kind of cool but those aren't open on weekends. There's no museums, those are downstream in the Museum District.

Exactly!!! My point right there.

I think builders should build buildings that has ground floors that are easily converted to retail, but I don't think retail will be a big draw for a few years.

What we need are things that draw the near by neighbors. If we get these the crowds would support more things which would attract more than just the nearby neighbors and maybe then downtown can look to being a retail destination again.

The aquarium is nice but puny and hemmed almost out of downtown. It is isolated. You do that then what else do you do. If we had a bigger aquarium downtown, and the zoo next to it, throw in a hermann park, and if the museum's, theater district, city hall and library were ask grouped together we would have destinations.

Look at ATL for example, they have the Aquarium, Coca cola, MLK, Olympic park etc all around in one area.

San Antonio has the river walk, alamo, hemisphere park, and that old neighborhood all in one area.

I think the museum district is our best concentration of amenities with the museums hemmed in by Montrose, Rice U, Memorial Park/zoo, the Terrace Neighborhoods and nearby TMC and UH/TSU/STTU

[IronTiger]

Hmm...what if the Downtown Aquarium was moved to the large parking lot adjacent to Discovery Green? That would provide an anchor to the area and make it even more of a destination.

[cloud713]

I completely agree that we need to boost community awareness of downtown and try to attract outsiders in. But we should also be focusing on how to keep the people in downtown who live in downtown, whereas right now they have to go out to the suburbs for lots of entertainment/activities.

Here is my solution for some of that/amenities to make downtown more family friendly, along with the additions to GreenStreet mentioned above.

I read in an interview once a developer from Chicago said Houston today reminded him of Chicago of 30 years ago. Well, a new trend over the last decade or so in Chicago has been repurposing rooftops (mainly into parks and gardens). We can jump ahead and start doing that here, now. At the very least it will be a great idea (IMO) in the next few decades when land space downtown starts running low and gets too expensive.

It's the George R Brown (and future southern expansion) CC, obviously with a public sports complex, including a soccer field, football field, baseball field, 4 tennis courts, and 2 basketball courts; also a TopGolf facility on the north side (which I think would not only be a hit for downtown/inner city residents, but business employees during long lunch breaks, and even certain crowds of convention goers)

here are a couple articles about Chicagos rooftop renaissance..

http://greeningthecity.wordpress.com/chicagos-green-renaissance/

"Green Roofs

“We do this not because it’s fashionable, but because it makes sense. It improves public health; it beautifies the city; it enhances the quality of life; it saves money; and it leaves a legacy for future generations.”

Mayor Richard Daley

Perhaps the most famous of Daley’s greening initiatives are Chicago’s green roofs. Leading the way with an award-winning green roof on their City Hall, Daley’s tough green roof incentives and requirements have made Chicago the North American leader for green roof implementation for four years running (Green Roofs for Healthy Cities). Known for their ability to reduce stormwater runoff and reduce the urban heat island effect, green roofs have also proven to be perhaps the most symbolic of all Daley’s initiatives. Other cities wishing to implement green initiatives have admired Daley’s use of green roofs as a symbolic figurehead for his other greening initiatives, and is perhaps a good lesson in public perception. Green roofs are sexy and innovative, and easily capture the public imagination. The most famous green roof in Chicago may not even be recognized as one- Millennium Park."

in that case, i guess Discovery Green is a "green roof", so we are already on our way to following in Chicagos footsteps.

 

"The 20,000 square foot garden atop Chicago’s City Hall was completed in 2001 as a green design experiment— namely to test the heating and cooling benefits plus the runoff absorption rates of green roofs in urban areas.

 

Special soils were created using lightweight soil mixture guidelines that were researched and developed in Germany. Skylights were reinforced to support up to 60 pounds per square foot, and a massive waterproofing layer was added to the century-old roof. Plants and grasses were selected for their ability to thrive in abundant sunlight and high wind, the majority being prairie plants native to the region.

 

Today, the City Hall’s grass and plants are able to absorb 75% of an inch of rain before storm water begins running into the city’s sewers. The roof is seven degrees cooler on average than neighboring roofs and as much as 30 degrees cooler in the summer, adding further support to research that shows the massive cooling effects of healthy lawns. Chicago now has 7 million square feet of green roofs completed or underway."

 

thats from an old blog/article in 2011 i believe, so one could imagine Chicago has added a bit more green roof space since then.

in a city that is currently spending billions to expand/rebuild the drainage system (and has an average summer temperature high in the 90s, sometimes reaching into the 100* range), i would say green roofs would make a lot of sense for us here in Houston..