Downtown Needs To Market Itself

[Elseed]

In regards to downtown awareness, I think our downtown leaders are kind of like a fish in the water. They're so used to the water they don't realize it's there anymore.

Okay, corny analogy, but the reason I think that is they need to market themselves and they don't.

They must think everyone in Houston knows about downtown and what it has to offer, but that is far from the truth. Having a website is not marketing.

I just spoke with a colleague that lives on Bagby in midtown and he didn't even know downtown had places to live. That's not his fault. He probably thinks that because he went there on a weekend and he said nobody was there. He has been to discovery green but didn't know the name of it and he didn't know Market Square existed. He has been to the House of Blues but didn't know it was in Greenstreet.

Spring Branch has a few billboards, why doesn't downtown? Why not make commercials or give incentives for downtown businesses to make them? Although people live near or drive by downtown often, they don't know much about it.

Simply, they need to be more aggressive in educating people about downtown. Don't sit back and wait for the Chronicle to write an article.

 

 

Totally agree

[livincinco]

In regards to downtown awareness, I think our downtown leaders are kind of like a fish in the water. They're so used to the water they don't realize it's there anymore.

Okay, corny analogy, but the reason I think that is they need to market themselves and they don't.

They must think everyone in Houston knows about downtown and what it has to offer, but that is far from the truth. Having a website is not marketing.

I just spoke with a colleague that lives on Bagby in midtown and he didn't even know downtown had places to live. That's not his fault. He probably thinks that because he went there on a weekend and he said nobody was there. He has been to discovery green but didn't know the name of it and he didn't know Market Square existed. He has been to the House of Blues but didn't know it was in Greenstreet.

Spring Branch has a few billboards, why doesn't downtown? Why not make commercials or give incentives for downtown businesses to make them? Although people live near or drive by downtown often, they don't know much about it.

Simply, they need to be more aggressive in educating people about downtown. Don't sit back and wait for the Chronicle to write an article.

 

Downtown is investing heavily in development incentives for residential and hotels.  Are you advocating that they cut back on that to increase the marketing budget? 

 

[nativehoustonion]

Your right, but we should wait till everything is built.  I had a draw dropper on USA Today which had a travel section on Texas.  They has a lot of stuff on there including Houston as the largest city in Texas.  Then they showed the Dallas skyline as the most beautiful in the country!  It was a night with all the buildings with LEED lights on them.  Pretty good job since their downtown is 30% empty.  That would be a way for people to come downtown.  609 Main will have LEED lights on the top,  Skansa and Marriott also.  We need to light up on skyline.          

[lockmat]

Downtown is investing heavily in development incentives for residential and hotels. Are you advocating that they cut back on that to increase the marketing budget?

Not advocating that at all. Would the same entity giving these incentives be the ones doing the marketing? I thought the TIRZ was related to the city but Central Houston (or is it Houston First?) is it's own entity? In that case Central Houston (or HF) would market it. Maybe they run on a super tight budget, but doesn't mean they can't raise money for it.

[lockmat]

Your right, but we should wait till everything is built. I had a draw dropper on USA Today which had a travel section on Texas. They has a lot of stuff on there including Houston as the largest city in Texas. Then they showed the Dallas skyline as the most beautiful in the country! It was a night with all the buildings with LEED lights on them. Pretty good job since their downtown is 30% empty. That would be a way for people to come downtown. 609 Main will have LEED lights on the top, Skansa and Marriott also. We need to light up on skyline.

To me marketing to visitors and marketing to Houstonians is two totally different campaigns. There might be some overlap but people who live and visit are not the same people. I think most Houstonians know at least in general that there are parks (hermann and memorial), the zoo, museums and stadiums around downtown but they don't know restaurants or places to shop.

The galleria is highly visual, like other malls, but downtown is pure urban and you have to know what's there. Unless you work downtown, you're not going to know anything about downtown just driving by it.

99% of Houstonians are not interested in development like we are. A very few percentage even look at chron slide shows with buildings going up around town. People are ignorant of these things. They know other suburbs and maybe the galleria area better than downtown, much better.

People here may not like this, but they need to steal suburbanites away to live in the city. That's where the battle is.

[arche_757]

Downtown just needs a critical mass of residents (and retail other than the usual clubs and cafes).  Once that happens it will draw locals and visitors alike and you'll hear people say "lets go Downtown" and mean it.  That critical mass is coming with the new apartments and condominiums.  Do we need more - yes!  But the fact that there are what 8 or so new residential projects of varrying sizes going in downtown... that's a great thing!

[lockmat]

Downtown just needs a critical mass of residents (and retail other than the usual clubs and cafes).  Once that happens it will draw locals and visitors alike and you'll hear people say "lets go Downtown" and mean it.  That critical mass is coming with the new apartments and condominiums.  Do we need more - yes!  But the fact that there are what 8 or so new residential projects of varrying sizes going in downtown... that's a great thing!

 

I agree, but at no point do you ever stop selling yourself. McDonalds is a worldwide icon but they advertise more than anyone else. Vegas is a legit tourist destination yet they continue to advertise.

 

I'm not saying they go all out and spend crazy money. But I think there should be billboards throughout the city, not necessarily all at once, but different places at different times of the year and not even necessarily 365 days.

 

I'm not sure we know what a critical mass is until we get there, but let's help speed up the process by giving downtown a good image and informing/educating people.

 

And I didn't want to make the downtown leaders out to be incompetent. They're doing a tremendous job. I should have been better with my words in the first post, but I would encourage them to do some advertising.

[livincinco]

Not advocating that at all. Would the same entity giving these incentives be the ones doing the marketing? I thought the TIRZ was related to the city but Central Houston (or is it Houston First?) is it's own entity? In that case Central Houston (or HF) would market it. Maybe they run on a super tight budget, but doesn't mean they can't raise money for it.

I'd rather see them continue to funnel available funds towards continuing development rather than divert itto marketing . I hear you on the fundraising, but I'd much rather see a group like that throw all its fundraising behind the Buffalo Bayou plan than for marketing purposes. With all the building going on, downtown is going to get plenty of press.

[mollusk]

I like having downtown to myself.  

 

I almost found myself hollering "you kids get offa my lawn barstool" at the Gladys unveiling this evening.

[cloud713]

i posted this in the Hotel Alessandra thread in going up but felt it may be more appropriate in this thread. we were discussing ways to improve GreenStreet/downtown.


agreed. a 30 screen movie theater in downtown is overkill. a 10 or so screen could be doable though. and with the rest of the room you have left over by not utilizing those other 20 or so screens from the 30 screen idea, you can build that Dave & Busters into the building. this, along with my Putt Putt Golf idea in the GreenStreet reno thread, (putting it on the roof above Lucky Strike so you can take in the view of the skyline while playing/utilize unused rooftop space) is starting to sound like a downtown/urban version of The Marque.. and i kind of like it.   now all we need is Laser Tag in one of the empty spots in GreenStreet to complete it. heh. right now downtown isnt very family oriented. sure it has Discovery Green, but people outside of downtown are closer to even bigger parks, with more amenities. DiscoGreen isnt enough of a draw for families to come into downtown except when there are big events happening there. if they put this Movie Theater, Dave & Busters, Putt Putt Golf, Laser Tag, along with the existing Bowling at GreenStreet, it could really set a tone for the venue and give it some identity. (not to mention my TopGolf and public sports complex idea on the roof of GRB CC)
i realize right now its not being marketed towards family oriented, with the super high end hotel, HOB, the luxury restaurants, and the offices, but if they were ever able to add the residential component i would like to see built above the GS parking garage, facing main st, those attractions could turn downtown into more than just a "mid 20s-30s/2nd home" community, making it more livable for families. build park space on the rest of the GreenStreet roofs, like they had that small grassy patch drawn into the original conceptual rendering in front of the hotel tower [unfortunately i dont see it anymore in the new renderings   ], but stretch the grassy park across the covered skybridge between forever XXI and the old BooksAMillion, to continue the park space on top of the whole books a million side of the complex on that block, to add another amenity to make the residential tower i wish would happen next to that more family friendly.

[arndthwrld82]

99% of Houstonians are not interested in development like we are. A very few percentage even look at chron slide shows with buildings going up around town. People are ignorant of these things. They know other suburbs and maybe the galleria area better than downtown, much better.

 

 

I noticed this recently. I was talking at work about the 40 story residential building going up near Greenway and how it was similar to Aqua in Chicago but no one knew what I was talking about. Many of the people I work with are native Houstonians and many of them live inside the loop but they just have no idea about/interest in development. Really all I do is read HAIF and Swamplot but I've become the local expert on development in Houston to the people I work with. I even had our HR Manager ask me about new residential buildings going up because she wants to live in a prestigious apartment when her lease is up next year (I recommended "Little Aqua". Skyhouse, or The Ballpark Apartments). So yeah some marketing is probably not a bad idea.

[lockmat]

I noticed this recently. I was talking at work about the 40 story residential building going up near Greenway and how it was similar to Aqua in Chicago but no one knew what I was talking about. Many of the people I work with are native Houstonians and many of them live inside the loop but they just have no idea about/interest in development. Really all I do is read HAIF and Swamplot but I've become the local expert on development in Houston to the people I work with. I even had our HR Manager ask me about new residential buildings going up because she wants to live in a prestigious apartment when her lease is up next year (I recommended "Little Aqua". Skyhouse, or The Ballpark Apartments). So yeah some marketing is probably not a bad idea.

Exactly. Imagine your knowledge of changes going on inside the loop and downtown without HAIF or swamplot. And say the business section of the chronicle didn't interest you. Most likely you would have never even heard of the Houston Business journal. That's at least 95% of Houstonians.

Like someone else said, the only experience most Houstonians have of downtown is going to a sporting event and maybe the arts.

They need to change peoples thinking about urban living and entrtainment. People love it, that's why town centers are the new craze. They just barely know about it in Houston. If you educate people on it and show them what it provides, it will help.

[Howard Huge]

The suburbians of Houston are not gonna come downtown until it is a full blown tourist destination with something to offer that is not available or able to be seen in the suburbs.

Simple as that.

[lockmat]

The suburbians of Houston are not gonna come downtown until it is a full blown tourist destination with something to offer that is not available or able to be seen in the suburbs.

Simple as that.

 

Eh, I don't really buy that. Well, there is some truth to it no doubt for a good number.

 

I don't think a lot of people living downtown or in the loop grew up there or are from an urban area from another city. I bet most urbanites either grew up or came from the suburbs. I don't think it's strictly a suburban vs urban argument. All things being equal (housing cost, schools, crime), I would be willing to bet urbanity would take at least half the market. But those things are keeping suburbanites out, but more than anything it's getting your money's worth in terms of square footage.

[livincinco]

Eh, I don't really buy that. Well, there is some truth to it no doubt for a good number.

 

I don't think a lot of people living downtown or in the loop grew up there or are from an urban area from another city. I bet most urbanites either grew up or came from the suburbs. I don't think it's strictly a suburban vs urban argument. All things being equal (housing cost, schools, crime), I would be willing to bet urbanity would take at least half the market. But those things are keeping suburbanites out, but more than anything it's getting your money's worth in terms of square footage.

  

Your comment is "all things being equal", but they aren't and they can't be. There are inherent differences between living in a dense and a suburban environment. It's also relevant to point out the there are several areas that are frequently called suburban that are really becoming small urban areas inside the Houston metro.

I think that it's also relevant to point out that a large percentage of people living inside the loop aren't living an "urban" life by any means. They're living suburban lifestyles that happen to be close to town and that the number of downtown residents is minuscule at the moment.

The suburbians of Houston are not gonna come downtown until it is a full blown tourist destination with something to offer that is not available or able to be seen in the suburbs.

Simple as that.

I don't agree. Residents of a city, whether urban or suburban, aren't really driven by tourist attractions. Tourist attractions are for tourists and many residents avoid them because of the crowds. Ask a New Yorker the last time they went to Times Square or a San Franciscan the last time they went to Fisherman's Wharf. Most residents I know avoid those areas at all costs

[cloud713]

I completely agree that we need to boost community awareness of downtown and try to attract outsiders in. But we should also be focusing on how to keep the people in downtown who live in downtown, whereas right now they have to go out to the suburbs for lots of entertainment/activities.

Here is my solution for some of that/amenities to make downtown more family friendly, along with the additions to GreenStreet mentioned above.

I read in an interview once a developer from Chicago said Houston today reminded him of Chicago of 30 years ago. Well, a new trend over the last decade or so in Chicago has been repurposing rooftops (mainly into parks and gardens). We can jump ahead and start doing that here, now. At the very least it will be a great idea (IMO) in the next few decades when land space downtown starts running low and gets too expensive.

It's the George R Brown (and future southern expansion) CC, obviously with a public sports complex, including a soccer field, football field, baseball field, 4 tennis courts, and 2 basketball courts; also a TopGolf facility on the north side (which I think would not only be a hit for downtown/inner city residents, but business employees during long lunch breaks, and even certain crowds of convention goers)

[LarryDierker]

I know several people that never even heard of the Pavilions. One kid I met in NW Houston (18 yrs old) didn't know what the Astrodome was.

 

Everybody on my facebook and the people I encounter at work are very aware of many of the projects going  on around the city, because Houston's about all I'll talk about.

[Howard Huge]

Your comment is "all things being equal", but they aren't and they can't be. There are inherent differences between living in a dense and a suburban environment. It's also relevant to point out the there are several areas that are frequently called suburban that are really becoming small urban areas inside the Houston metro.

I think that it's also relevant to point out that a large percentage of people living inside the loop aren't living an "urban" life by any means. They're living suburban lifestyles that happen to be close to town and that the number of downtown residents is minuscule at the moment.

I don't agree. Residents of a city, whether urban or suburban, aren't really driven by tourist attractions. Tourist attractions are for tourists and many residents avoid them because of the crowds. Ask a New Yorker the last time they went to Times Square or a San Franciscan the last time they went to Fisherman's Wharf. Most residents I know avoid those areas at all costs

Since were using anecdotal evidence like "most residents I know", most of the suburbians I know in Houston have told me exactly what I posted, that:

A: I hardly ever go into Houston, or Downtown. For what? Especially since everything I need is right here in (katy, memorial city, baybrook mall, 1960 etc etc...

B: The few times I have gone to downtown not for a municipal matter, it was to go to:

1) to a Rockets game

2) to an Astros game

3) to a Dynamo game

4) to the theatre district

5) to Discovery Green

6) to Fertittas Downtown Aquarium

.....you know.....touristy stuff

[mollusk]

^^ I dunno.  The reverse is true as well.  The last time I stopped in Katy was to buy gas, driving from my inside the Loop bubble to San Antonio on business.  (maybe if I golfled... no, we still have Memorial and Hermann Parks... )

[IronTiger]

If downtown was to "market itself better", who would they be trying to attract? Tourists or locals (suburbanites)? Both of those are very different things.

Retail is sadly pretty much a lost cause, as upscale malls need a nice area to draw off of (a lot of downtown malls failed this way). The retail component of Houston Pavilions was suffering, and other potential retail draws in Houston (Shops at Houston Center mall) are mostly service or food oriented tenants. The retail needs to satisfy the downtown area, and I don't even think downtown has that much of a residential base to have even that.

Restaurants are needed on the surface. Weekend tourists and suburbanites (who go to see sports, or a play) are disappointed in the lack of street level restaurants, and even if the tunnels weren't closed on the weekends, it's mostly chain fare that can be found in other malls/rest of Houston.

JPMorgan Chase Tower has a great observation deck, but that sadly isn't all that well known (and closed on weekends).

To put it simply, if downtown were to market itself, what would it advertise and why should people go down there?

[cloud713]

If downtown was to "market itself better", who would they be trying to attract? Tourists or locals (suburbanites)? Both of those are very different things.

Retail is sadly pretty much a lost cause, as upscale malls need a nice area to draw off of (a lot of downtown malls failed this way). The retail component of Houston Pavilions was suffering, and other potential retail draws in Houston (Shops at Houston Center mall) are mostly service or food oriented tenants. The retail needs to satisfy the downtown area, and I don't even think downtown has that much of a residential base to have even that.

Restaurants are needed on the surface. Weekend tourists and suburbanites (who go to see sports, or a play) are disappointed in the lack of street level restaurants, and even if the tunnels weren't closed on the weekends, it's mostly chain fare that can be found in other malls/rest of Houston.

JPMorgan Chase Tower has a great observation deck, but that sadly isn't all that well known (and closed on weekends).

To put it simply, if downtown were to market itself, what would it advertise and why should people go down there?

Great points. That's part of why I said we need to work on keeping the downtown residents in downtown, by providing more suburban style amenities in downtown.

Someone a few posts above made a nice list of "touristy stuff" aka, sports, theater, and restaurants, that attract people to downtown.

[Texasota]

Do downtown residents want "suburban-style" amenities?

 

I do agree more sports facilities would be good, There are a few along the bayou, theres basketball in the little park by toyota center.

 

Tennis. Downtown needs tennis courts.

[lockmat]

^^ I dunno.  The reverse is true as well.  The last time I stopped in Katy was to buy gas, driving from my inside the Loop bubble to San Antonio on business.  (maybe if I golfled... no, we still have Memorial and Hermann Parks... )

I think people only go places they need to unless it's a special event, no matter how cool a place it is.

Do downtown residents want "suburban-style" amenities?

 

I do agree more sports facilities would be good, There are a few along the bayou, theres basketball in the little park by toyota center.

 

Tennis. Downtown needs tennis courts.

I believe there are some in the Allen center garage.

[lockmat]

If downtown was to "market itself better", who would they be trying to attract? Tourists or locals (suburbanites)? Both of those are very different things.Retail is sadly pretty much a lost cause, as upscale malls need a nice area to draw off of (a lot of downtown malls failed this way). The retail component of Houston Pavilions was suffering, and other potential retail draws in Houston (Shops at Houston Center mall) are mostly service or food oriented tenants. The retail needs to satisfy the downtown area, and I don't even think downtown has that much of a residential base to have even that.Restaurants are needed on the surface. Weekend tourists and suburbanites (who go to see sports, or a play) are disappointed in the lack of street level restaurants, and even if the tunnels weren't closed on the weekends, it's mostly chain fare that can be found in other malls/rest of Houston.JPMorgan Chase Tower has a great observation deck, but that sadly isn't all that well known (and closed on weekends).To put it simply, if downtown were to market itself, what would it advertise and why should people go down there?

My initial post was talking about marketing to Houstonians, I guess to live and visit. As I said, a coworker literally lives a few blocks away and doesn't know much about downtown at all, as an example.

They're already advertising Houston around the world.

[cloud713]

I believe there are some in the Allen center garage.

Yes but don't you have to be a paying member of the Allen Club to use the courts?

There is one basketball court next to Toyota Center but I hear that place is a hobo haven, and it would probably be nice to have some other options.

[IronTiger]

My initial post was talking about marketing to Houstonians, I guess to live and visit. As I said, a coworker literally lives a few blocks away and doesn't know much about downtown at all, as an example.

I don't know, for Houstonians, most people are pretty happy in their corner of the city and won't go out of it unless it's worth their time like a sporting event or restaurants or shops. Large retail districts like Chinatown (near Beltway 8 and Bellaire), Rice Village, and Uptown have a strong residential base to draw off and build off, and downtown doesn't have that. Sure, there are shops and related stuff if you have a specific reason (Joystix, Brown Book Shop) to check out, but it won't have that draw. However, if downtown is growing as fast residential-wise as I hear it is, then there's no need to "advertise". Businesses will come (maybe incentivized, maybe not), cool stuff will come that might be worth another head turn from non-downtowners, and things will work themselves out.

[kylejack]

Not advocating that at all. Would the same entity giving these incentives be the ones doing the marketing? I thought the TIRZ was related to the city but Central Houston (or is it Houston First?) is it's own entity? In that case Central Houston (or HF) would market it. Maybe they run on a super tight budget, but doesn't mean they can't raise money for it.

There is no need to market. Residential in Downtown already stays at near full capacity. Why market to people apartments which are not available to them? It's a waste of resources. If the new buildings struggle with occupancy, then maybe it will be needed.

[arche_757]

I'll agree that Downtown should be more of a destination for Houstonians - but I'll also agree that it will be hard to make it one.  How often does the average Houstonian visit: Nasa/Space Center Houston, The Galleria, Reliant Stadium etc?  Probably 1-2 times per year at most.  That probably is the same amount that the average Houstonian visits Downtown.  As a really large city its hard for people to justify spending an hour in the car for every weekend events or once a month trips to these high traffic areas.  That and it is just more expensive to travel to-from than to simply stay in your own little suburban/urban area and enjoy the sights and sounds of the local scene.

 

I think DT is doing all it can to make itself attractive to out of towners, locals and the like.  Perhaps a billboard or two around town when Greenstreet gets up and running in a year or two will help?  Personally I think DT will be the focus of the Superbowl in 2017 and as such will draw a lot of locals and people will get to see again first hand that the central core is a pretty nice/safe/cool place and worth a trip.

[mollusk]

Yes but don't you have to be a paying member of the Allen Club The Met to use the courts?

 

 

Not only must one belong to The Met (or be a member's guest), but the membership level that comes with tennis court access is a notch up the ladder.

[Houston19514]

My initial post was talking about marketing to Houstonians, I guess to live and visit. As I said, a coworker literally lives a few blocks away and doesn't know much about downtown at all, as an example.

They're already advertising Houston around the world.

 

With respect to your coworker, he seems especially clueless about the world very near around him.  One wonders what kind of marketing would be effective with respect to such a person.