What is your ideal transit plan for Houston?

[ricco67]

I think it is the fact that not EVERY job that people commute to is in Downtown, Greenspoint, Greenway, Galleria, or the Med Center.  Additionally, not every commuter goes to a white collar job.

 

The Issue is to be able to get to one part of the city to another as quickly as possible and for travel options from outside the city to connect to those.

 

I've said this on a couple of other threads, but I believe if a few more quickline routes were to open, it would help out tremendously, particularly if there are "express" to these major population centers and branch out from there.  If this were to happen, they would act as transit centers to other areas.

 

As far as trying to add Rail to Richmond Ave, years ago it was a very speedy way to get from one side to another, but that is quickly changing.   Putting a rail down the center of it would speed up transit considerably.   It may not help the people that DRIVE down there, but we'd be able to move more people in and out of the city while the rest of the street is in gridlock.

 

 

[mfastx]

As far as trying to add Rail to Richmond Ave, years ago it was a very speedy way to get from one side to another, but that is quickly changing.   Putting a rail down the center of it would speed up transit considerably.   It may not help the people that DRIVE down there, but we'd be able to move more people in and out of the city while the rest of the street is in gridlock.

 

I agree with this. While rail on the surface of Richmond isn't optimal, it would still be very effective. 

 

The traffic in the area is a lot worse than even one year ago, the last time I spent extensive time in Houston. 

[ricco67]

I agree with this. While rail on the surface of Richmond isn't optimal, it would still be very effective. 

 

The traffic in the area is a lot worse than even one year ago, the last time I spent extensive time in Houston. 

 

Years ago, it was THE route to take during rush hour, these days it moves a BIT faster than the freeway, but with the added thrill of wondering if your suspension is going to die on that particular day.

[Slick Vik]

I'm just going to assume that you're intentionally missing my point. 

 

I see your point but it's not true. You can't just move a center because you want to. I live in reality.

[Slick Vik]

I think it is the fact that not EVERY job that people commute to is in Downtown, Greenspoint, Greenway, Galleria, or the Med Center.  Additionally, not every commuter goes to a white collar job.

 

The Issue is to be able to get to one part of the city to another as quickly as possible and for travel options from outside the city to connect to those.

 

I've said this on a couple of other threads, but I believe if a few more quickline routes were to open, it would help out tremendously, particularly if there are "express" to these major population centers and branch out from there.  If this were to happen, they would act as transit centers to other areas.

 

As far as trying to add Rail to Richmond Ave, years ago it was a very speedy way to get from one side to another, but that is quickly changing.   Putting a rail down the center of it would speed up transit considerably.   It may not help the people that DRIVE down there, but we'd be able to move more people in and out of the city while the rest of the street is in gridlock.

 

I agree. That's why I think a good internal light rail system in combination with commuter rail is the system needs. That way suburbs have a way to get into the city, and have a way to move around the city once they arrive. DART is doing only for former and not the latter, except for the mckinney streetcar.

[livincinco]

I see your point but it's not true. You can't just move a center because you want to. I live in reality.

 

In a growing city, there's really no reason that the center would remain static and it depends whether you're talking geography or demographics.  If the metro continues to grow faster to the west than it does to the east (and that is what's happening), then the center will move as well.

 

Just look at what's happening in construction right now, there's huge amounts of construction happening to the west of the downtown and virtually none happening to the east of downtown.

[RedScare]

Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here.

 

But, it is a much shorter drive to the Methodist hospital at Willowbrook.

[Slick Vik]

But, it is a much shorter drive to the Methodist hospital at Willowbrook.

 

53.2 miles, 18 miles longer.

[august948]

Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here.

Actually, Sealy is 31 miles from 6 and I10. That's around a 30 min drive time, give or take a little. Not bad at all if you work on the west side of town. I doubt many people are driving from Brenham to downtown, but downtown isn't the only place with employment. There's plenty of employment on the northwest side of town.

No straws were injured in the making of this post.

[livincinco]

Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here.

 

Attached article details that 8% of US workers that commute more than 60 minutes or longer each way. 

 

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/cb13-41.html

[august948]

There are also many people that would like the option of an efficient transportation system, is that too much to ask of a "world class" city?

We have an efficient transportation system. It's called roads. It's flexible and takes you anywhere you want to go. We need to expand it more.

[august948]

Attached article details that 8% of US workers that commute more than 60 minutes or longer each way. 

 

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/cb13-41.html

If you look at land prices around the Houston area, this is born out. You have to get past Brenham before the price per acre really starts to drop. When we were looking for a place out in the country a few years ago, the price for land in the Brenham area was around $10k/acre. Once you drive west of there it drops to between $3k and $5k/acre. That's an indication of the limit on how far out people are willing to live.

[august948]

I see your point but it's not true. You can't just move a center because you want to. I live in reality.

The reality is that downtown is struggling to get residents precisely because there are other competing centers of employment and living around town. If the edge cities weren't important then downtown and inside the loop would be far denser than it is now.

[Slick Vik]

We have an efficient transportation system. It's called roads. It's flexible and takes you anywhere you want to go. We need to expand it more.

 

Expand it more? This is megalomanaical talk. And how is it efficient from a cost perspective, an a macro and micro scale?

[Slick Vik]

If you look at land prices around the Houston area, this is born out. You have to get past Brenham before the price per acre really starts to drop. When we were looking for a place out in the country a few years ago, the price for land in the Brenham area was around $10k/acre. Once you drive west of there it drops to between $3k and $5k/acre. That's an indication of the limit on how far out people are willing to live.

 

My friend bought a house off 288 and southmore for $100,000. Cheap land is not only the farther you go out.

Attached article details that 8% of US workers that commute more than 60 minutes or longer each way. 

 

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/cb13-41.html

 

60 minutes does not equal 60 miles

[livincinco]

60 minutes does not equal 60 miles

 

I never implied that it does.  You pointed out that Sealy was 35 miles from I-10 and highway 6.

[august948]

Expand it more? This is megalomanaical talk. And how is it efficient from a cost perspective, an a macro and micro scale?

It's actually quite rational given that most of the population growth in the Houston area will occur outside the city limits and outside the Metro service area.

[Slick Vik]

It's actually quite rational given that most of the population growth in the Houston area will occur outside the city limits and outside the Metro service area.

 

How much more highway expansion do you honestly think can be done?

[citykid09]

Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here.

 

There are people in the Bryan/College Station area that do this everyday. I thing the census says it was in the hundreds. And also the reverse too. People live in Houston and commute to Bryan/College Station. Isn't that why there were talking about commuter rail between BCS and Houston?

 

 

As far as an ideal transit system plan for Houston, I would have to say the only thing I would truly care for is a system like this (BART):

 

I don't care for buses, and light rail is basically a street car. When it comes to building a commuter BART rail needs to be the example taken. not like the Dallas commuter rail in the video below:

 

The commuter rail should act in the same way that DC Metro does for VA and Maryland and BART does for the Bay Area. So basically the lightrail that is in place will be used as a street car to get people through short stops throughout the inner loop.

[mfastx]

It's actually quite rational given that most of the population growth in the Houston area will occur outside the city limits and outside the Metro service area.

 

While this is true, sizable growth will still happen inside the loop.  And this summer I've been in Houston and I drive on the inner loop highways and roads every day.  The traffic is quite bad and unless we can start building double decker roads and freeways, the roads there cannot expand any more. 

 

Buses can get the job done, but they are stuck in the same traffic as everyone else. 

 

At some point it would really benefit the city if we invested more on public transportation to give riders another option.  Whether it be rail or BRT, I'd like to see something built, preferably grade seperated.

[Ross]

While this is true, sizable growth will still happen inside the loop.  And this summer I've been in Houston and I drive on the inner loop highways and roads every day.  The traffic is quite bad and unless we can start building double decker roads and freeways, the roads there cannot expand any more. 

What traffic? I live inside the loop, and seldom see any traffic worth complaining about.

[RedScare]

What traffic? I live inside the loop, and seldom see any traffic worth complaining about.

 

Me too. The only traffic jams I hit today was right in front of the new ExxonMobil site near the Woodlands.

[mfastx]

What traffic? I live inside the loop, and seldom see any traffic worth complaining about.

 

As a commuter who commutes from the Galleria towards Downtown every rush hour, it usually takes about 30-40 minutes to go those few miles.  Whether it's along Richmond or Westheimer or 59. 

 

Today was the exception however, as 59 was pretty much clear until right before the Spur.  A rare treat but a nice one only took me 10 minutes to get home!  I think that's a new record, lol.

[KinkaidAlum]

First, I think it's a stretch to claim that Houston has efficient roads. Our roadways are TERRIBLE. It's like driving off road to a Mexican beach town all over the city.

 

Secondly, while traffic inside the loop isn't bad, it's NOTICEABLY worse now than when I first moved back home 3 years ago. If we don't improve our roads and add to our transit system, things are going to bad soon. Imagine when these 20,000 units are occupied. That's a LOT more cars on the road.

[cloud713]

Some terrible sketches, but you get the idea. The roads are fairly accurate. there was just a bit of sharpie bleeding through from when i had the papers stacked on top of each other.
The black is light rail, blue is commuter rail (the yellow makes the blue look black when they are on the same corridor), and yellow is high speed rail. I wasnt sure wether to have the high speed rail going to Austin or San Antonio but im sure they could easily branch that line off of either corridor to serve both cities, so the option is open, though 290 already has the rail line along Hempstead highway.



Here's my inner city street car plans, with the light rail system drawn in as well. The East End streetcar system is drawn in, as is my doodles for a streetcar system serving the midtown region and beyond.
At the southern end the streetcar tracks make a loop around the medical center/through the museum district, down bissonnet-binz, almeda, halcombe, and back up greenbriar. From there continuing north across 59 where the streetcar line continues down Shepard, where it finally turns right on Gray, where it travels east through midtown before looping back around just before 288. I also have a streetcar line going down montrose, from the Sam houston statue turn around at the museum district, all the way north to Washington ave, where the line would run east/west down Washington ave, stretching east into downtown, ending by minute maid park. There is also a spur off of montrose going down westheimer/Elgin, and turning around at Baldwin park. Either that or have it go down Alabama and turn around at the 288/59 junction. Another route I just thought of would be a route down W Dallas street, traveling into downtown, following the road northeast as if turns into bagby street, and have that spur connect into the Washington Ave line.
I'm sure there are better routes, as I'm not very familiar with the midtown area, these are just some ideas I had after looking at a map of the area and finding roads that were at least 4 lanes, in popular developed areas.

[Naviguessor]

Cloud. Really like the streetcar concept. That really addresses the last-mile issue.

I also agree about the way you connect HOU via the East End LR down Broadway. This seems to make more sense and where I think Metro is headed. Could make the terminus right in the Hobby Parking Garage. How slick would that be!?

[livincinco]

This article sums up my ideal transit plan very effectively. One that isn't based on perceptions, but is based on results. This approach illustrates a business model that has been proven effective by many private companies - good customer service, efficient operations and value pricing.

We keep focusing on rail/bus, but if the customer feels that they are getting efficient transportation, a good customer experience and value for their money, the means that they are moving (rail or bus) is completely secondary.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/07/how-fund-transit-without-raising-fares-or-cutting-service/6241/

[Slick Vik]

This article sums up my ideal transit plan very effectively. One that isn't based on perceptions, but is based on results. This approach illustrates a business model that has been proven effective by many private companies - good customer service, efficient operations and value pricing.

We keep focusing on rail/bus, but if the customer feels that they are getting efficient transportation, a good customer experience and value for their money, the means that they are moving (rail or bus) is completely secondary.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/07/how-fund-transit-without-raising-fares-or-cutting-service/6241/

1. Detroit is building a streetcar

2. Rochester is considering tearing down a freeway in its downtown

I'm going back to elbow beach now. Bermuda rocks.

[livincinco]

Darn it. Left my troll spray at home. Gotta remember to pack it next time.

[Slick Vik]

Darn it. Left my troll spray at home. Gotta remember to pack it next time.

This grouper sandwich is really good.