livincinco Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Look at the percentage of funds txdot spends on rail against roadsNo, I'm tired of doing the research that you're too lazy to do. You need to provide the facts to support your own arguments instead of generalizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Interesting that everyone's solutions are automatically all (assuming so) public or majority publicly funded capital projects. Perhaps my answer doesn't fit within the definition of "mass transit," but I would propose the addition of a smaller-scale, private option. Open up the market to short-hop jitney companies to service people on the street grid within the mass transit routes. Seems like there's plenty of middle ground to be served that's not bus/rail, biking/walking and private cars. Metro and the taxi cartel can learn to share. Not an addition, this is currently available. Wave services the whole Inner Loop now, e.g. http://www.thehoustonwave.com/riding-the-wave.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 No, I'm tired of doing the research that you're too lazy to do. You need to provide the facts to support your own arguments instead of generalizations. I'll give you a hint, it's minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Apparently my commuter rail down the hov lane with park and rides turned into rail station idea isn't as original of an idea as I thought.. Nor very well received. So since that's already been discussed, ill post more ideas.-Commuter rail down 288 from the fannin transit station down to highway 6 (so much room in the median they are unfortunately going to put hot lanes down the middle of)-commuter rail down 90A tracks-commuter rail down west park (didnt try leave enough space for future rail or no?)-commuter rail near along 290 out to say cypress? I don't see the need or economic feasibility of running it all the way to Hempstead.-commuter rail between Houston and GalvestonAnd of course...-High speed rail from Dallas to Houston, coming into the city along the hardy tollroad railroad tracks, continuing along the new hardy tollroad downtown extension which will run right past the old "hardy rail yards" where a new terminal can be built.I ignored the roads because houston pretty well has those covered, lol. Can't wait for the grand parkway to be finished around 2020, though I'm worried about the additional sprawl it will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Sounds like good plans but they need a system in the core to get people around once they get into the city also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Sounds like good plans but they need a system in the core to get people around once they get into the city also. my plans are assuming they have the light rail system built out to plans, with the commuter rail lines connecting into the transit stations at the end of the light rail lines around 610. what do you guys think the feasibility of running the high speed rail line down Hardy Toll road into downtown is? i really liked montroses commuter rail plan with the repurposed Summit. maybe they can build something like they are trying to do with the Penn Station redevelopment in NY at the Hardy Rail Yards site with the grand station and mixed use developments. basically the original Hardy Rail Yard redevelopment plans with a high speed rail line coming into a big station on the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 my plans are assuming they have the light rail system built out to plans, with the commuter rail lines connecting into the transit stations at the end of the light rail lines around 610. what do you guys think the feasibility of running the high speed rail line down Hardy Toll road into downtown is? i really liked montroses commuter rail plan with the repurposed Summit. maybe they can build something like they are trying to do with the Penn Station redevelopment in NY at the Hardy Rail Yards site with the grand station and mixed use developments. basically the original Hardy Rail Yard redevelopment plans with a high speed rail line coming into a big station on the property. Sounds good to me I just wish the people in charge had the same vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Sounds like good plans but they need a system in the core to get people around once they get into the city also. There's buses, what else do you need? Certainly not any more of those idiotic light rail lines that make getting around difficult. Face it Vik, this isn't a rail kind of town. We do just fine with what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Apparently my commuter rail down the hov lane with park and rides turned into rail station idea isn't as original of an idea as I thought.. Nor very well received. So since that's already been discussed, ill post more ideas. -Commuter rail down 288 from the fannin transit station down to highway 6 (so much room in the median they are unfortunately going to put hot lanes down the middle of) -commuter rail down 90A tracks -commuter rail down west park (didnt try leave enough space for future rail or no?) -commuter rail near along 290 out to say cypress? I don't see the need or economic feasibility of running it all the way to Hempstead. -commuter rail between Houston and Galveston And of course... -High speed rail from Dallas to Houston, coming into the city along the hardy tollroad railroad tracks, continuing along the new hardy tollroad downtown extension which will run right past the old "hardy rail yards" where a new terminal can be built. I ignored the roads because houston pretty well has those covered, lol. Can't wait for the grand parkway to be finished around 2020, though I'm worried about the additional sprawl it will bring. my plans are assuming they have the light rail system built out to plans, with the commuter rail lines connecting into the transit stations at the end of the light rail lines around 610. what do you guys think the feasibility of running the high speed rail line down Hardy Toll road into downtown is? i really liked montroses commuter rail plan with the repurposed Summit. maybe they can build something like they are trying to do with the Penn Station redevelopment in NY at the Hardy Rail Yards site with the grand station and mixed use developments. basically the original Hardy Rail Yard redevelopment plans with a high speed rail line coming into a big station on the property. my plan wasnt including the "Future Rail Extensions". i dont think light rail should much further than 610, with the exception of Hobby Airport. Bush can have a commuter rail (which i forgot to mention in my first post), since light rail is too slow and expensive to go that far of a distance. the high speed rail terminal at the hardy rail yards could easily suit a highspeed rail line to San Antonio/Austin in the future to complete the Texas triangle (since TxDot is studying the San Antonio - Dallas route and of course the private Japanese company is planning the Dallas - Houston route), since the Hardy Rail Yards site is just off of i10 and a few rail lines that come into that area from the west. one of the rail lines that runs directly to the lot is the line that ends up running along the Hempstead highway so that would be a perfect connection for the 290 commuter rail or the high speed rail to Austin or San Antonio. of course the trains would have to slow down in the city. what do you guys think about the proposal to turn the "downtown loop" of 45/59/and 10 (i think?) into a one direction counterclockwise loop to hopefully better manage traffic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naviguessor Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 We can do better. We Have to do it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 We can do better. We Have to do it better. agreed. its just a solid foundation. of course the busses that are getting replaced would be rerouted along the commuter rail stations to support those localized regions/suburbs. but back to your point, Houston is projected to have 10 million people by 2040. our highway system cannot handle another 3.5 million people without vastly expanding it, which we really dont have the room to do. we need alternative modes of transportation. rail is the most viable alternative. its about time Houston accepts it.oh how could i forget. in addition to the light rail/commuter rail/high speed rail i had in the plan i would add streetcars. the East End already has plans under review for a streetcar system to help expand the area that the light rail is able to serve, and support localized living around the east end. 2 of the 3 routes also ran down one of the streets futher south side in downtown, ending near the main street line.in addition to the east end streetcar system, i think midtown is a great candidate for a streetcar system since it is one of the more walkable and urban districts in Houston. linking it into the surrounding light rail to further enhance access to the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If you're making the assumption that the Houston metro is going to have 10 million residents by 2040 (which I agree with btw), I think that you have to start by modeling how Houston will look at that time. My personal opinion is that Houston of 2040 is going to look very different than Houston of today. Probably as different as Houston of today looks compared to Houston of 1980. That being said, I don't think that a single hub and spoke model centered around downtown works well for Houston because that's not how the city is organized. If you truly want to move people in Houston then you have to be able to develop a hub and spoke from each of the major job centers to the locations that people are most likely to commute from with focus on developing hubs in downtown, uptown, TMC, the energy corridor and Memorial City. This becomes very difficult to achieve with rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If you truly want to move people in Houston then you have to be able to develop a hub and spoke from each of the major job centers to the locations that people are most likely to commute from with focus on developing hubs in downtown, uptown, TMC, the energy corridor and Memorial City. This becomes very difficult to achieve with rail. There is no good chunk of ROW's available around Memorial City and the energy corridor. The spoke system already exists around the other centers you mention. The best plan to accomodate a Houston of 2040 is to capitalize on our current ROW's near centers and build them out. In other words, build out the other plethora of empty lots Downtown/Midtown (probably have enough space there for another 100 years)... in the Med Center buildout further south down South Main towards Reliant, and then just build more Park N Ride's for those in the burbs. Simple, and it allows us to utilize our existing rail and freeway systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 There's buses, what else do you need? Certainly not any more of those idiotic light rail lines that make getting around difficult. Face it Vik, this isn't a rail kind of town. We do just fine with what we have now. Thankfully your generation is marginalized with time and the new generation has different ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 If you're making the assumption that the Houston metro is going to have 10 million residents by 2040 (which I agree with btw), I think that you have to start by modeling how Houston will look at that time. My personal opinion is that Houston of 2040 is going to look very different than Houston of today. Probably as different as Houston of today looks compared to Houston of 1980.That being said, I don't think that a single hub and spoke model centered around downtown works well for Houston because that's not how the city is organized. If you truly want to move people in Houston then you have to be able to develop a hub and spoke from each of the major job centers to the locations that people are most likely to commute from with focus on developing hubs in downtown, uptown, TMC, the energy corridor and Memorial City. This becomes very difficult to achieve with rail. Well obviously it's going to be more densely populated. How much farther can the sprawl honestly go? Also, with simply the university line, Greenway Plaza, Medical Center, Downtown, and the Galleria would all be connected, 4 major employment centers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 agreed. its just a solid foundation. of course the busses that are getting replaced would be rerouted along the commuter rail stations to support those localized regions/suburbs. but back to your point, Houston is projected to have 10 million people by 2040. our highway system cannot handle another 3.5 million people without vastly expanding it, which we really dont have the room to do. we need alternative modes of transportation. rail is the most viable alternative. its about time Houston accepts it.oh how could i forget. in addition to the light rail/commuter rail/high speed rail i had in the plan i would add streetcars. the East End already has plans under review for a streetcar system to help expand the area that the light rail is able to serve, and support localized living around the east end. 2 of the 3 routes also ran down one of the streets futher south side in downtown, ending near the main street line.in addition to the east end streetcar system, i think midtown is a great candidate for a streetcar system since it is one of the more walkable and urban districts in Houston. linking it into the surrounding light rail to further enhance access to the system. Great post, I like your vision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well obviously it's going to be more densely populated. How much farther can the sprawl honestly go? Also, with simply the university line, Greenway Plaza, Medical Center, Downtown, and the Galleria would all be connected, 4 major employment centers. Think back to 1980 and the vast majority of people would not have envisioned a Houston that looks the way it does now. I've provided a link to an article that Tory highlighted in his blog projecting that the Energy Corridor will have 38.4 million sq ft of office space in 2030. (Not sure why the headline says 31 million, the text of the article says 38.4). That would make it larger than downtown is today. (Downtown was slightly over 34 million sq ft at the end of 2011). http://m.yourhoustonnews.com/mobile/fort_bend/news/study-projects-million-sq-ft-of-office-mixed-use-space/article_e01fc364-e5d1-11e2-98d7-0019bb2963f4.html As edge cities continue to mature, the sprawl will potentially continue to grow in relation to the distance to those edge cities. If someone is willing to commute 35 miles to downtown, I think that it's reasonable to project that same individual would be willing to commute 35 miles to the Energy Corridor and could potentially be willing to in Sealy to do so. The same is true of Exxon/The Woodlands and the planned development at Generation Park. (Huntsville is 44 miles from the Exxon development, it is not out of the realm of possibility that there would be significant numbers of commuters from Huntsville by 2040.) I'd project inside the loop to grow slightly higher than it's current percentage of population. Currently there's 500k in rough numbers out of a total population of 6 million slightly less than 10% of the total. If you project growth inside the loop to get to 10% of the total population, it would double the current population to around 1 million and would create a lot of density, but it would still leave approx. 3.5 million people that would need to settle into additional areas outside the loop. Please keep in mind that I'm not making value judgments about whether this is a good or a bad thing, because I know that you'd like to believe that sprawl is going away. I'm just looking at the numbers and the probabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Houston sprawl isn't that bad. Compared to places like DC, LA, Northeast Corridor, etc, it's minimal. Traffic here is not nearly as bad as most folks think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Houston sprawl isn't that bad. Compared to places like DC, LA, Northeast Corridor, etc, it's minimal. Traffic here is not nearly as bad as most folks think it is. From a square mileage prospective, Houston's sprawl is pretty big. Also, those other places you mention also have excellent or in the case of LA improving public transit, so people have options. Here other than the park and ride I don't think our transportation system is very efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well obviously it's going to be more densely populated. How much farther can the sprawl honestly go?Quite a ways, actually. People are already commuting in from Brenham. Sealy is only 20-25 miles from the Energy Corridor. Fulshear is growing like crazy. That can happen in pretty much every direction but will be most prominent around the edge cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Local buses should be fine for the majority of inner Houston, but it'd be nice to have a few trunk rail lines to handle corridors with higher ridership more efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Quite a ways, actually. People are already commuting in from Brenham. Sealy is only 20-25 miles from the Energy Corridor. Fulshear is growing like crazy. That can happen in pretty much every direction but will be most prominent around the edge cities.Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Not many people want to live on top of each other in this state. Houston can expand a long way on many sides, and I would be very happy to see the idea of "downtown" disappear completely so we can stop wasting piles of cash trying to revitalize something that no one really wants. Technology will eventually render a lot of commuting unnecessary. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here. I work with people who commute from Waller, Bellville, Anahuac, Huntsville, and Lake Jackson to Downtown. I have worked with people who commuted from Pearland and Clear Lake to the Greenspoint/IAH area. Believe it or not, there are many people who do not mind the commute, and are happy to make the drive for a variety of lifestyle reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 I work with people who commute from Waller, Bellville, Anahuac, Huntsville, and Lake Jackson to Downtown. I have worked with people who commuted from Pearland and Clear Lake to the Greenspoint/IAH area. Believe it or not, there are many people who do not mind the commute, and are happy to make the drive for a variety of lifestyle reasons.There are also many people that would like the option of an efficient transportation system, is that too much to ask of a "world class" city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Not many people want to live on top of each other in this state. Houston can expand a long way on many sides, and I would be very happy to see the idea of "downtown" disappear completely so we can stop wasting piles of cash trying to revitalize something that no one really wants. Technology will eventually render a lot of commuting unnecessary.JMO.This is why 20,000 new apartment units are being within the loop as we speak. Downtown always has the inherent geographical advantage of being in the city center, and for that reason it will always be relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Sealy is 35 miles from highway 6 and I-10, and that's the only major employment center anywhere near it. Brenham is 65 miles from downtown houston, how many people are honestly making that insane commute? You're grasping at straws here.I notice that you are ignoring my post and choosing to comment on others. If you read it, you will see the reasons why I feel that growth will continue in the Houston area and no, I don't think that this is grasping at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This is why 20,000 new apartment units are being within the loop as we speak. Downtown always has the inherent geographical advantage of being in the city center, and for that reason it will always be relevant.Actually, downtown really isn't the geographic center of the city anymore. I think that most people would agree that the center is now further west, but there's a lot of debate about exactly where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Actually, downtown really isn't the geographic center of the city anymore. I think that most people would agree that the center is now further west, but there's a lot of debate about exactly where.Wow lol. Like I said geographically it will always be the city center. Even 7 of your beloved freeways meet there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Wow lol. Like I said geographically it will always be the city center. Even 7 of your beloved freeways meet there. I'm just going to assume that you're intentionally missing my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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