What is your ideal transit plan for Houston?

[IronTiger]

1. It is a fact. Reading is fundamental.

http://m.chron.com/o...ice-4337295.php

Notice that it's filed under "Opinion"...

2. You either are avoiding the question or can not comprehend it. If there is a houston to galveston rail with stops it doesn't just serve people going from one to the other, it serves people going both directions, as there are commuters to galveston and downtown houston from various points between the two.

I'm not avoiding the question. OK, let's say that the main track between Galveston and Houston was double-tracked entirely, which it currently isn't, and circles up near Navigation Blvd. instead of going for a route around the 3rd Ward. Let's also assume tthat existing freight traffic won't muck up the traffic on our new line. Let's assume thirdly that the passenger train goes on a 50 mph clip. In theory, it could make it to downtown Houston in under an hour, if it was only picking up trains to and fro Galveston. Even at peak hours, the amount of commuters would be abysmal, especially if the train came once an hour, and that's another coming at an interval so the other doesn't have to make it downtown and come back (100 miles, about two hours).

But Galveston isn't the only city on the line, so the train has to slow down and stop for those other stops, too...that would add commuters and rapidly make that "50 minute" time diminish. This would make the train less desirable to ride--and since once you get into Houston, you'd need to get a new transfer card--since any Galveston/Houston train wouldn't be operated by METRO (remember, it was a private company originally) it would need a new transfer agency--and while all this time, costs are going up, desirability and function go down. See how complicated this is?

3. The inter urban right of way was "donated" to the city because of heavy pressure by mayor oscar holcombe. Please read up on history before making blatantly false commentary.

Please don't accuse me of making "blatantly false commentary" when you've done similar things. By 1940, the line had already gone out of business and was abandoned. In fact, much of the former ROW was actually used as high voltage power lines, and urban explorers have found backfilled tunnels used by the interurban even to this day.

[Slick Vik]

Notice that it's filed under "Opinion"...

I'm not avoiding the question. OK, let's say that the main track between Galveston and Houston was double-tracked entirely, which it currently isn't, and circles up near Navigation Blvd. instead of going for a route around the 3rd Ward. Let's also assume tthat existing freight traffic won't muck up the traffic on our new line. Let's assume thirdly that the passenger train goes on a 50 mph clip. In theory, it could make it to downtown Houston in under an hour, if it was only picking up trains to and fro Galveston. Even at peak hours, the amount of commuters would be abysmal, especially if the train came once an hour, and that's another coming at an interval so the other doesn't have to make it downtown and come back (100 miles, about two hours).

But Galveston isn't the only city on the line, so the train has to slow down and stop for those other stops, too...that would add commuters and rapidly make that "50 minute" time diminish. This would make the train less desirable to ride--and since once you get into Houston, you'd need to get a new transfer card--since any Galveston/Houston train wouldn't be operated by METRO (remember, it was a private company originally) it would need a new transfer agency--and while all this time, costs are going up, desirability and function go down. See how complicated this is?

Please don't accuse me of making "blatantly false commentary" when you've done similar things. By 1940, the line had already gone out of business and was abandoned. In fact, much of the former ROW was actually used as high voltage power lines, and urban explorers have found backfilled tunnels used by the interurban even to this day.

Stops don't add much time. They are 30-45 seconds each. Doors open, people get on and get off.

[Naviguessor]

The topic is "what's you ideal transit plan...?"

Everyone can have an opinion. Please don't take over every other forum with this same rail argument. It's like cancer!

[arche_757]

I've deleted what I originally posted to keep this from getting into yet another long drawn out argument between Slick Vic and Iron Tiger.

 

Sorry.

[IronTiger]

The topic is "what's you ideal transit plan...?"

Everyone can have an opinion. Please don't take over every other forum with this same rail argument. It's like cancer!

OK. I actually did want to share my "light rail expansion plans", actually, because we are talking ideals here. I created a "Red Line" extension by a combination of some tunnels and running in the medians of highways.

In fact, a Galveston rail is a pretty cool idea, even though it probably won't work all that well in reality. 

 

I ended up making others, too, including a new Uptown line and a substantially different University Line. Those come later, though.

[IronTiger]

Here's the plan for Uptown Line and a bit of Cy-Rail, which I hope to explain further. The Uptown Line would go on the University Line and others, but I haven't done all that yet. I found that METRO's plan for Uptown Line has far too many stops, which I deleted. Oh, and for the most part, this Uptown Line tends to run mostly underground. Additionally, it was extended to Brookhollow Business Park, which I think needs to be connected with the rest of the city.

 

Notice that Cy-Rail stops at Northwest Mall and not Northwest Transit Center...I felt like since the rail was removed near there it would be problematic for the train to back in (even if you restored Old Katy to its original configuration).

 

[samagon]

Here's the plan for Uptown Line and a bit of Cy-Rail, which I hope to explain further. The Uptown Line would go on the University Line and others, but I haven't done all that yet. I found that METRO's plan for Uptown Line has far too many stops, which I deleted. Oh, and for the most part, this Uptown Line tends to run mostly underground. Additionally, it was extended to Brookhollow Business Park, which I think needs to be connected with the rest of the city.

 

Notice that Cy-Rail stops at Northwest Mall and not Northwest Transit Center...I felt like since the rail was removed near there it would be problematic for the train to back in (even if you restored Old Katy to its original configuration).

 

I'd think that an extension west of the green line would make better sense, right down memorial drive, stop at Waugh, stop at Shepherd, stop at Memorial Park, finish at uptown line. It would probably get an ok number of customers on weekdays, but I'd imagine weekend traffic would be really high.

 

I also would like to see the university line going down richmond again, not jogging all over the map to avoid one neighborhood. go underground through that little neighborhood, from the railroad tracks, out to 610. and also it could go underground inside montrose to the spur.

[IronTiger]

I'm inclined to keep the current plan because it means the Westpark ROW can be partially used. I'd like to see a surface-level track running there again. Maybe I'm just weird like that. Even if it ran submerged from Dunlavy (at Richmond) to west of Shepherd, it cuts out Greenway Plaza.

 

I did make a complete University Line, though, it's a long one east too (one word: Haden)

[Sky-guy]

I think it would be nice to have rail from the green/purple line(s) to Allen parkway and down Kirby until reliant park.

[fkp5]

I think it would be nice to have rail from the green/purple line(s) to Allen parkway and down Kirby until reliant park.

 

I've never thought about this before. The line would be going through a lot of single-family neighborhoods so I am not sure how the high the ridership would be. A stop at Kirby and at Rice Village could potentially get high ridership though.

[JamesL]

You can take a look at how your fantasy plans match up against activity density, the singe most important factor determining the success of transit.

 

Large PDF: http://transitsystemreimagining.com/web/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ActivityBoardingsMapReduced.pdf

[HoustonIsHome]

I think it would be nice to have rail from the green/purple line(s) to Allen parkway and down Kirby until reliant park.

You read my mind, I was thinking the same.

As for the low density spots, no one said we had to stop everywhere.

Kirby has lots of stuff and would provide excellent transfer spots.

Houston is the city of potential. We just have no idea what we want to do with all that potential

[kylejack]

I think it would be nice to have rail from the green/purple line(s) to Allen parkway and down Kirby until reliant park.

 

Hm, good idea. I think it would be torpedoed by the precious millionaries along that top piece of Kirby who don't want the riff raff being trafficked in to their neighborhood. Sigh.

[Slick Vik]

Hm, good idea. I think it would be torpedoed by the precious millionaries along that top piece of Kirby who don't want the riff raff being trafficked in to their neighborhood. Sigh.

Bus already goes down kirby

[IronTiger]

Even nuttier than my Pearland-to-the-airport idea is the reimagining of the Blue Line (not the University Line, since it really wouldn't hit universities anymore). The western portion, of course, follows the existing University Line layout except underground (preserving trees, turns, and traffic lanes) and cuts out extraneous stops. Between Wheeler and Greenway Plaza, there's just three stops: Shepherd/Kirby, Menil, and Montrose/St. Thomas. The subway glides underneath Greenway Plaza and finally has parking at Weslayan, the first surface station, before gliding over the tracks, stopping at Pin Oak (Newcastle moved), Bellaire (parking), then west, not just to Hillcroft but the transit centers near the Westpark ROW, which left ROW for a light rail. This eventually goes to Bella Terra in the greater Katy area. Heading east, the Gold lines (the Gold line parallels Blue since Bellaire, see my post above on how that changes) and Blue head up with Red (Gold stops at UH-Downtown) but Blue takes another turn. While this could be spun off into a new color, it circles around and heads underground, and stops near the Saint Arnold brewery at the Saint Arnold stop. Parking is there at Semmes and Providence. Going east, the map says it's street running, but because of the railroad, it still moves underground. Stops are at Gregg and Waco Street before going underground and re-emerges at Fidelity and Market in Jacinto City. There's parking here, and it parallels a freight train. It moves east to Sheffield and finally stops at Haden, an area with parking and access to Sam's and Walmart. It could even extend out toward San Jacinto Mall, but I think it's long enough as-is.

 

 

[cloud713]

I think it would be nice to have rail from the green/purple line(s) to Allen parkway and down Kirby until reliant park.

I mentioned a Kirby subway line before that turns east at Shepherd and Allen/Memorial before heading into downtown/the green/purple lines. Sounds like were on the same page.