Many Proposed Midtown Mixed-Use & Multifamily Developments

[LTAWACS]

Gee, let me think about if I'm more sympathetic about people getting something to eat or expensive homes.

First World Problems

The latter of course. Vagrants can get a bite to eat at any dozens of homeless shelters. They'll be ok. The rest of us have better things to worry about.

[Texasota]

Wow, I'm really surprised at how ...hateful your tone is, LTAWACS. Like it or not, "vagrants" are people too. Besides- "vagrants can get a bite to eat at any dozens of homeless shelters." That's exactly what's being built here. And, like it or not, every city will always have a homeless population. I for one would rather that population be well enough served that panhandling becomes less of a necessity, and this development should help do exactly that.

[LTAWACS]

Wow, I'm really surprised at how ...hateful your tone is, LTAWACS. Like it or not, "vagrants" are people too. Besides- "vagrants can get a bite to eat at any dozens of homeless shelters." That's exactly what's being built here. And, like it or not, every city will always have a homeless population. I for one would rather that population be well enough served that panhandling becomes less of a necessity, and this development should help do exactly that.

I would not call it hateful. I'm indifferent. I just wonder why they can't go elsewhere. Like... Katy or Woodlands. Or Dallas.

[kylejack]

I would not call it hateful. I'm indifferent. I just wonder why they can't go elsewhere. Like... Katy or Woodlands. Or Dallas.

Because Katy has practically non-existent public transportation. Even if you personally started a soup kitchen, not many would be able to get to it.

[KinkaidAlum]

troll is obvious troll.

why do people keep feeding him? Feed the homeless? Yes. Feed LTAWACS? No.

[mfastx]

troll is obvious troll.

why do people keep feeding him? Feed the homeless? Yes. Feed LTAWACS? No.

LOL, I can't believe LTAWACS joined so long ago. By his posts, it seems like he's 12 or something.

[Ross]

You are in denial if you don't think Midtown hasn't become a better neighborhood after the light rail was constructed.

Many people ride light rail to places outside the Medical Center.

That's not the word I get from my former neighbors who have been leaving Midtown for years. The rail is OK if you work in the med center or downtown. Otherwise, it's a waste of space.The rail construction pjhase definitely had a deleterious effect on Midtown, and was probably the cause of the knee cartilage tear I had when I had to walk to Milam to take the bus after my car was flooded during Allison - the construction made walking East to West across Main very difficult. It might be better now, but I'm skeptical.

[mfastx]

That's not the word I get from my former neighbors who have been leaving Midtown for years. The rail is OK if you work in the med center or downtown. Otherwise, it's a waste of space.The rail construction pjhase definitely had a deleterious effect on Midtown, and was probably the cause of the knee cartilage tear I had when I had to walk to Milam to take the bus after my car was flooded during Allison - the construction made walking East to West across Main very difficult. It might be better now, but I'm skeptical.

Well I am living in the MIdtown area during the summer and it is much better than you describe. And there are numerous developments happening all over the place, as evidenced by this thread. Midtown is without a doubt a better place to live now than 10-15 years ago. It's not even close.

About your comment about the rail - it is such a small line that naturally it will only serve a couple of employment centers. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is a "waste of space" but I agree that optimally the rail should either be underground or elevated... not mixed with traffic. However it is pretty effective as it is now.

I recognize that construction had a negative impact, but in the grand scheme of things, the short-term negative impact from construction does not outweigh the long term positive impact of rail. That's just how I feel on the subject.

[TheNiche]

Camden Property Trust makes its own decisions about what to build on the Superblock. That has nothing to do with anything. Venue Museum district is Transit-Oriented Development. The rail line was a major progenitor in its development and in other residential units. They all list rail as an amenity. So you can declare fail all you like, but it doesn't make your logic any less flawed. The rail line has made a positive economic impact on Central Houston.

Oh, so the CVS Pharmacy that turned its back on the light rail is only the second largest example of new development in Midtown (if Midtown goes where Midtown isn't). That's so much more convincing.

Yes, apartment managers list light rail as an amenity. They also list other amenities. For instance, Venue Museum District lists their parking garage as an amenity. 2222 Smith Street lists berber carpet as an amenity. They list anything that they can think of that will entice even a small segment of the market to visit them.

The soccer stadium isn't in Midtown either, but you can be damn sure that they brought that stadium to central Houston in large part because of the planned rail line. They could have built it out in the burbs like many other cities, but they chose to put it in Central Houston. That benefits EaDo, Midtown, the Med Center and everywhere in between.

Centrality was generally important to the Dynamo, but access to the parking lots for Minute Maid Park was more a lynch pin than light rail access.

When there are only so many viable sites for a type of development, you can be assured that some of them will be near a light rail line and that a few will eventually be developed. A few isolated occurrences of development do not necessarily indicate a pattern. On the contrary, in fact, the pattern seems largely a negative one where Midtown is concerned.

[lockmat]

For midtown, Meals on Wheels:

http://www.chron.com/business/sarnoff/article/Sarnoff-Ministry-makes-Midtown-move-3706540.php

[samagon]

Oh, so the CVS Pharmacy that turned its back on the light rail is only the second largest example of new development in Midtown (if Midtown goes where Midtown isn't). That's so much more convincing.

When did that happen?

Granted you're talking about Midtown, but it seems like in the East End they embraced the light rail, moving from a location on Cullen/Polk to a location at Harrisburg/Lockwood. CVS wouldn't have done that if they didn't see value in LR.

How long has the CVS on Elgin/Main been there?

One CVS location decided to build right next to some upscale apartments, rather than a greyhound station (which considering the crap that happens near that bus terminal, probably would have netted more shoplifting traffic than regular shopping traffic.)

IMO, CVS is a bad example of new development that shunts LR, since the CVS on W. Gray seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.

Granted we're nearly 10 years after LR opened on Main, but I think it's just too soon after to say what impact it is having, or will have. Especially considering 4 of those nearly 10 years were not a strong economy.

[mfastx]

I still am wondering how some people are still saying the light rail has had a negative impact on Midtown. Where were all of these developments before the light rail opened? I'm sure it's just a coincidence right?

Can somebody compile a list similar to the one in the OP of this thread of all of the developments in Midtown in the 1990s? Townhomes don't count btw lol.

[zaphod]

Whatever.

Houston isn't so different from anywhere else.

Even in Portland and San Diego where light rail has been considered a "huge success" its not like TOD magically appears the week after the lines open. And those cities still have issues with bus service cuts and maintaining ridership/mode share, despite their rail investments. In PDX their Max Yellow Line is approximately the same age as the Red Line and its still not really built up. Only in the last few years during the economic recovery has there started to be new stuff along it. As for stuff turning it's back on the tracks, well there is a Fred Meyer(NW equivalent of a HEB) along it that flanks a station but doesn't necessarily open to it-it opens to a parking lot...

IMO, the nice thing about the light rail is that it doesn't run on diesel and go 5 mph in the right lane like the buses used to, and that in the long run steel wheel is a bit more efficient and durable. I thought that was the real reason they built it? Made the Med Center a little quieter and less polluted.

[mfastx]

Whatever.

Houston isn't so different from anywhere else.

Even in Portland and San Diego where light rail has been considered a "huge success" its not like TOD magically appears the week after the lines open. And those cities still have issues with bus service cuts and maintaining ridership/mode share, despite their rail investments. In PDX their Max Yellow Line is approximately the same age as the Red Line and its still not really built up. Only in the last few years during the economic recovery has there started to be new stuff along it. As for stuff turning it's back on the tracks, well there is a Fred Meyer(NW equivalent of a HEB) along it that flanks a station but doesn't necessarily open to it-it opens to a parking lot...

IMO, the nice thing about the light rail is that it doesn't run on diesel and go 5 mph in the right lane like the buses used to, and that in the long run steel wheel is a bit more efficient and durable. I thought that was the real reason they built it? Made the Med Center a little quieter and less polluted.

Well of course devlopments don't isntantly happen, it takes time. My point about rail is that in the long run, it makes a neighborhood a better and more desirable place to live. It can change neighborhoods long term.

Agree with your last point, they built the light rail because it transports people more efficiently. Other positive externalities such as developments and such aren't the real reason.

[samagon]

IMO, the nice thing about the light rail is that it doesn't run on diesel and go 5 mph in the right lane like the buses used to, and that in the long run steel wheel is a bit more efficient and durable. I thought that was the real reason they built it? Made the Med Center a little quieter and less polluted.

I wish that the metro buses were that predictable! Cruise down Pierce any time of the day on a weekday, buses go all over the place with no real regard, sit in 2 lanes at once. Oh and don't take westheimer, if you're unlucky enough to be behind a bus, until the road turns into 3 lanes, they use both lanes. And go only 5mph.

[mfastx]

^^^ Yeah, smh buses are always getting in my way they are so annoying.

[LTAWACS]

I wish that the metro buses were that predictable! Cruise down Pierce any time of the day on a weekday, buses go all over the place with no real regard, sit in 2 lanes at once. Oh and don't take westheimer, if you're unlucky enough to be behind a bus, until the road turns into 3 lanes, they use both lanes. And go only 5mph.

I agree. The bus drivers are almost just as bad as their tow truck driving ilk.

[TheNiche]

When did that happen?

Granted you're talking about Midtown, but it seems like in the East End they embraced the light rail, moving from a location on Cullen/Polk to a location at Harrisburg/Lockwood. CVS wouldn't have done that if they didn't see value in LR.

I suspect that the move had a lot more to do with them satisfying the goals of being on a high-visibility hard corner with a higher traffic count, and where they had enough space to build a freestanding building in the corporate style that included a drive-through. There are only so many sites in that general area that could've been a good fit, and I happen to think that they chose well for their business model.

How long has the CVS on Elgin/Main been there?

One CVS location decided to build right next to some upscale apartments, rather than a greyhound station (which considering the crap that happens near that bus terminal, probably would have netted more shoplifting traffic than regular shopping traffic.)

IMO, CVS is a bad example of new development that shunts LR, since the CVS on W. Gray seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.

It was built several years after light rail was completed. I want to say that it was 2005 or 2006. There's a lengthy thread about it on HAIF somewhere. It's fair to say that CVS doesn't care about promoting walkable urbanism. But that's my point. Most developers shrugged, built to the west until land was exhausted in the westerly direction, and gave it lip service.

Granted we're nearly 10 years after LR opened on Main, but I think it's just too soon after to say what impact it is having, or will have. Especially considering 4 of those nearly 10 years were not a strong economy.

It didn't take particularly long for Discovery Green to spawn new development. Finger pretty much had his finger on the trigger for One Park Place, just waiting for the City of Houston to commit to the park's development. New office and hotel space followed shortly thereafter. When something is perceived by developers as a strong amenity, you'll know it because they'll do more than give it lip service. They'll build stuff!

[TheNiche]

I wish that the metro buses were that predictable! Cruise down Pierce any time of the day on a weekday, buses go all over the place with no real regard, sit in 2 lanes at once. Oh and don't take westheimer, if you're unlucky enough to be behind a bus, until the road turns into 3 lanes, they use both lanes. And go only 5mph.

METRO's operating stats have indicated that local buses average 1 mph faster than light rail.

I'll readily grant you that there are narrow streets and choke points. But what is light rail costing us these days, something like $200 million per mile? For that kind of money, wouldn't it be easier to repair and widen streets, create bus pull-ins, better bus stops, and provide for better buses?

[samagon]

METRO's operating stats have indicated that local buses average 1 mph faster than light rail.

Yeah, cause a good number of them have a strong disregard for the laws of traffic.

Just yesterday on my way up St. Josephs pkwy, I was approaching Caroline, the light turned green for me, about 3 seconds later a metro bus whipped off of Caroline, and across all lanes of traffic to get over to the left lane, I had to hit my brakes, but luckily since you go 20mph to catch the string of greens on St. Josephs, I was traveling slow. The bus driver knew that, so he ran the red light right in front of me and 2 other cars.

On top of this, when he came to a stop at San Jac he was half in the left lane, and half in the next lane over.

I quit calling the number on the back of the buses to report crap like this, since it doesn't seem to make an impact on events like this.

That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of rail, at least it puts these 'drivers' on a fixed guideway.

[TheNiche]

That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of rail, at least it puts these 'drivers' on a fixed guideway.

The guideways have the effect of disrupting signal timing, and certain crossings also become un-intuitive. (The one I hate in particular is the offramp from 59 to Fannin. It's too easy to impulsively run a red or position yourself underneath the crossing gate before it comes down. Especially if you've had a few, not enough to sleep, a bad day, or some combination thereof.)

And besides, I like the idea of being able to blame a bus driver for being a jack-ass instead of myself for being a crappy driver. Makes me feel better.

[samagon]

The guideways have the effect of disrupting signal timing, and certain crossings also become un-intuitive. (The one I hate in particular is the offramp from 59 to Fannin. It's too easy to impulsively run a red or position yourself underneath the crossing gate before it comes down. Especially if you've had a few, not enough to sleep, a bad day, or some combination thereof.)

And besides, I like the idea of being able to blame a bus driver for being a jack-ass instead of myself for being a crappy driver. Makes me feel better.

well, you get no complaints from me, I've got very little respect for civil engineers. That particular intersection is most awesome, thanks to modern internet technology coupled with young bored people, there's a meme face that corresponds with most of the civil engineers that have helped design Houston...

[Purdueenginerd]

I've got very little respect for civil engineers. ..

<--Civil/structural/forensics

[zaphod]

METRO's operating stats have indicated that local buses average 1 mph faster than light rail.

Doesn't that really depend on the routes in question? There are many bus lines and one operating rail line at the present time.

Obviously that's not much of an argument for anything. But yeah, if Metro said they were going to build proper BRT where the buses have their own lanes and nice stops with ticket machines, and the buses were electric, etc, then OK.

[RedScare]

METRO's operating stats have indicated that local buses average 1 mph faster than light rail.

I'll readily grant you that there are narrow streets and choke points. But what is light rail costing us these days, something like $200 million per mile? For that kind of money, wouldn't it be easier to repair and widen streets, create bus pull-ins, better bus stops, and provide for better buses?

Eh, more like $113 million per mile, plus $435 million more to rebuild the City's roads and utilities, for a grand total of $143 million per mile.

[samagon]

<--Civil/structural/forensics

I'm glad I held back ;-)

Nothing personal, I'm sure you're up against all sorts of compromises, from money limitations, to environmental, to purely political.

[Purdueenginerd]

I'm glad I held back ;-)

Nothing personal, I'm sure you're up against all sorts of compromises, from money limitations, to environmental, to purely political.

haha, I wasnt offended. I dont even work in transportation! I deal with energy/oil/gas/nuke. I chuckled at your comment.

[DrLan34]

word is that Bob Schultz's group will break ground this year on the lot north of Natachees on a residential complex with retail on bottom. The residential is suppose to be affordable, with sliding doors that seperate each living area.

The Trinity church is planning on building a parking garage at Holman and Main (across from the residential mentioned above) with a couple of store fronts, no word on when they would break ground.

Then we have the MATCH that would sit one lot north Bob Schultz's residential complex.

One block north of the Match is a building that Midtown bought from the city a few years ago, they are trying to market it to a developer who will add residential and retail on bottom.

Plus we have the superblock, etc. Could be a nice stretch of Main...

[Texasota]

Damn that CVS! Otherwise now the two big holes are the parking lot behind HCC and that vacant building on Tuam {which I like; hopefully someone finds a use for it other than as a palette for (admittedly stellar) grafitti}

[H-Town Man]

That would make sense with what I heard.

Now, I know this is insensitive and horrible, but this news underscores one of the trends in Midtown that has grown over several years - social services. Is it just me or is anyone else concerned that Midtown is/has become Social Services Row?

Now, places such as the Men's Center (which is growing), Lord of the Streets, Search homeless center, and U.S. Vets (also substantially growing) are invaluable resources to the community and do incredible and necessary services for their constituents. However, lumping them all together in one part of town, THE section that is also attempting to become the transit-oriented, urban, walk able, Portland-esque, mixed use wet dream of a neighborhood, probably won't help the cause any. If anything, it just scares prople/developers away.

That said, the area is still (slowly) gentrifying, despite all the social services. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

 

Would you rather Midtown become a yuppie playland like Midtown Atlanta, with only one demographic?  Or Uptown here in Houston?  Having social services keeps Midtown a real urban environment, and keeps out the true stigma: the BMW-driving, sunglasses-wearing, latte-sipping a-holes who just want to zoom from their condo tower parking garage to work and back home.