Downtown Houston 2025 Master Plan

[Talbot]

Oh, okay.

[BayouCityGirl]

this looks like "Sim City". Go put your residence, next to your businesses and watch little houses grow.

[Talbot]

I hope it works out the way they want it to, or most of it.

[kjb434]

Check the link below for a vision of downtown houston created by a consortium of Public and Private entities.

Downtown Houston 2025 Plan

The proposed park in front of the George R. Brown is a part of this with the progression of residential high-rise development with ground level retail. The goal is to make downtown a residential place along with commercial office space. Once people start living downtown, retail will start moving in more and more. Then downtown becomes more a desination for visitors and residents alike.

The mayor would like to make the 2025 timeline faster and occur earlier. Last night on the public access channel for Houston, the presentation that presented the plan was aired along with a video of the proposal. All the materials are available in the above link.

[Jonah]

I don't understand. I know that the central business district hopes to have a population of 10,000 in downtown by 2010, but I just don't see that happening. I'm not trying to be a naysayer but it frustrates me because that would be an amazing goal but I see nothing happening in the future that points to that goal being reached. I mean the downtown revitilization began with Bayou Place and the Rice Lofts 8 years ago in 1997. We are already in 2005 and the population is I believe only 3,000 people in downtown. Does anybody really feel it will be possible for downtown to achieve this goal of 10,000 people by 2010? Basically tripling the current population in 5 years time. I really hope Shamrock Tower happens and is a catalyst for other developers to see the potential in downtown. Does the city of Houston give these developers any sort of incentive that would encourage development in downtown as opposed to other parts of the city? It seems like every few weeks you hear about a new residential tower in Uptown/ Galleria being built, which is great but what about one of these happening in downtown. It seems like interest among Houstonians is really strong for residential housing downtown, but no developers or the city of Houston seems to be taking advantage of it. What gives? Comments anyone? Sorry just a little frustrated.

[bachanon]

welcome to the forum jonah.

one item to consider: downtown and midtown did not have all of the infrastructure improvements 8 years ago. there were no stadiums, no light rail, no cotswald project, etc. over 2 billion dollars have been spent preparing downtown for an urban renewal. there is a real buzz, actually, a freight train (IMHO) of interest in the revitalization of downtown/midtown houston.

[MidtownCoog]

Why live downtown when you can live in Uptown, Midtown, Montros, etc?

Also, I work downtown. I don't want to live downtown.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Jonah]

Why live downtown when you can live in Uptown, Midtown, Montros, etc?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think many people want to live downtown because the feel is much different there than any other part of town including Uptown, Midtown, or Montrose. Uptown I feel doesn't have the same connectivity and density that downtown has. Midtown, although urban in some areas is mainly dense only on the west side, and montrose is more of a neighborhood with homes and not that dense. I think downtown is the only neighborhood that kind of has that big city New York feel that most Houstonians have never experienced but really want. With the completion of most downtown streets walking around is becoming easier for pedestrians. I think if housing became more affordable then a swell of people would move to downtown in a heartbeat.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[The Great Hizzy!]

Sure blame the dogs. Always blame the dogs.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Anyway, in all seriousness, I think that's it great that someone has put a goal otu there to work towards. I don't think there's anything wrong with setting a goal or failing to meet that goal as long as you make the effort. To set a goal and then put forth no effort is the real crime.

Do I think downtown Houston will see 10,000 residents (that is, 10,000 inside the loop created by I45, US59 and I10) by 2010. Can't say. You have no idea what may happen in the next two years that could lead to an explosion of speculative residential projects. No one really thought the Fourth Ward would experience such a massive explosion of new townhomes in five or six years either. It really depends on some outside factors that are unpredictable.

The 20,000 goal for 2025, however, is entirely doable, and I don't think much speculation needs to be done on that. In fact, I think a goal of 30,000 is even reasonable. Hell, the city of Houston has been adding as many residents to the city every 1.5 years or so for the last 15 years plus.

Either way, the issue is whether the effort will actually be made by the Downtown Management District, City of Houston, area developers and so forth to try to make it a reality.

[kjb434]

I'm glad to see all the replies!

And to add to bachanon's statement out all the infrastructure upgrades that occurred to downtown and midtown:

Every street that has been rebuilt had the storm sewer, sanitary sewer, water lines, and other utilities completely replaced. Downtown Houston and parts of Midtown have new utilities services that allow for the expansion to occur. Studies have already been developed that are showing the interest in urban living in this area from current Houston residents. The study also recognizes a trend through the country of increased urban residencies. Just look at San Diego, Portland, Miami, and even Dallas. Houston has had some of this development occur, but in the form of mostly townhomes. Right now the pace of mid-rise construction is picking up. It just needs to be followed by a some high-rise construction to show the effect the is full swing.

I don't this the population increase that Central Houston Inc. is hoping for is not to hard to achieve. I think that most of the downtown and midtown future development will occur on the concept of you build it and they will come.

The most important aspect that i think needs to be addressed is the price point of most of the new residential development in downtown and midtown. They cannot be only luxury high-rise facilities. The Shamrock has already shown that a facility can be proposed with various price points from reasonable to the ungodly expensive is possible. Just as soon as those promises are changed into contracts we will see it happen in that facility.

I just can't wait until more proposals for residential high-rises come out. There is already one that is being kept under wraps fairly well that is being proposed to be built next to the Bayou Place. You can see it in the Downtown 2025 sketches. The city has a approve that the developer can build it. I think it is in feasibility right now.

[Subdude]

There is already one that is being kept under wraps fairly well that is being proposed to be built next to the Bayou Place. You can see it in the Downtown 2025 sketches. The city has a approve that the developer can build it. I think it is in feasibility right now.

If that were the case then why are they considering extending the Cordish option on the property that was set to expire?

It is interesting in that plan that some of the maps exclude the part of Allen Parkway that goes through Sam Houston park and turns into Lamar & Dallas, in other words traffic would be routed onto the Clay Street exit so that the park could be extended and unified. Maybe not a bad idea.

[kjb434]

The part i meant about under wraps is the aesthics, expected construction date, condo types, costs.

It is just in a extremely early state. If they have extended the Cordish or if they are planning to, I hope work goes forward to finish the proposed phase two.

[UrbanGeranimal]

Why live downtown when you can live in Uptown, Midtown, Montros, etc?

Also, I work downtown.

[volvo99]

Has any thought been given to WHO will make up the 10,000 living downtown? Will this become an enclave for nouveau riche childless professionals or will other portions of the Houston social strata find affordable housing here?

[MidtownCoog]

I just like the urban feel

Well, that's kinda funny. Dowtown is a ghost town after 5 and on the weekend. That's why I like it. We'd bike ride downtown on Sunday morning, and owned the entire city.

Now "urban" as in New York or London, you may just change your tune.

[MidtownCoog]

D'oh

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[midtown_resident]

coog...do you still live in midtown? or downtown?

[MidtownCoog]

No, we sold our town home last October.

But I work in 2 Houston Center (Fannin at Walker) and still make it into Midtown just about every day.

But I have been posting as MidtownCoog since 1999, so I guess I'll just keep this name.

[midtown_resident]

No, we sold our town home last October.

But I work in 2 Houston Center (Fannin at Walker) and still make it into Midtown just about every day.

But I have been posting as MidtownCoog since 1999, so I guess I'll just keep this name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cool - where was your townhome? did you see any appreciation during your time in Midtown?

[N Judah]

Has any thought been given to WHO will make up the 10,000 living downtown? Will this become an enclave for nouveau riche childless professionals or will other portions of the Houston social strata find affordable housing here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the early adopters (the first 10,000) will probably be yuppie types, but the absence of zoning in Houston will let the market eventually provide opportunities for downtown living for other people as well.

Trust me, you're not the first one here to ask that question. Pretty much everyone is hoping for a sustainable downtown, not just some flash in the pan trendy one.

[kzseattle]

I think the early adopters (the first 10,000) will probably be yuppie types, but the absence of zoning in Houston will let the market eventually provide opportunities for downtown living for other people as well. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How would the absence of zoning define who would be able to live in downtown? I thought zoning only dictate whether a particular lot should be used for commercial or residential purpose. Does it also dictate, for example, whether an affordable residential project can be built next to a high-end complex? I would assume that aspect is governed primarily by market forces. If the land in downtown is expensive, which it is, that would ensure that only those who can afford to live there would do so. Since families typically prefer to live in single family homes with backyards and such, this factor would ensure that mostly singles, young childless couples or retired couples would choose to live in downtown. I may be wrong but then I dont know that much about zoning laws.

[MidtownCoog]

Jackson and Dennis near Elizabeth Baldwin Park.

We sold for 40% more than we bought it for. Very happy about that.

[N Judah]

How would the absence of zoning define who would be able to live in downtown? I thought zoning only dictate whether a particular lot should be used for commercial or residential purpose. Does it also dictate, for example, whether an affordable residential project can be built next to a high-end complex? I would assume that aspect is governed primarily by market forces. If the land in downtown is expensive, which it is, that would ensure that only those who can afford to live there would do so. Since families typically prefer to live in single family homes with backyards and such, this factor would ensure that mostly singles, young childless couples or retired couples would choose to live in downtown.  I may be wrong but then I dont know that much about zoning laws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zoning also involves height restrictions, which create an artificial scarcity of resources. For example, if Houston were suddenly zoned to only allow 5 story buildings to be built in downtown, then it is my impression that a building at a prime location which would otherwise have many units at a lower cost would, under zoning, have fewer units at a higher cost. I don't think zoning could dictate whether affordable projects can go next to high-end ones as that is a market thing, but I do think that zoning does alter the market conditions that affect whether or not anyone would find it profitable to bother to build anything affordable. This is all my opinion of course, since I don't know a whole lot about zoning laws either.

[kzseattle]

Zoning also involves height restrictions, which create an artificial scarcity of resources. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for height restrictions, I think that even if we had zoning it wouldnt impose height restrictions in an area like downtown. It could do so in other residential areas such as the Heights (how coincidental) or West U. Apparently, however, the neighborhood associations in those areas have already been successful at stopping a couple of high-rise projects anyway.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

I work in Downtown (ExxonMobil), and for me, I wouldn't want to live there. I like working there though, and Downtown is always busy. I hope this plan works, because the sketches really look good. Hopefully, othere devlopers develop multi-use buildings like the Shamrock Tower all over Downtown.

[volvo99]

I think the issue of economic stratification is being ignored here. While it is true that without the presence of early adoptors the Downtown and Midtown areas would be dormant, it does not bode well for the economic well being of a city if all the "prime" areas become an enclave for walk-on from 'Friends'. I take it none of you know what it is like for the armies of anonymous copper skinned labor who troll around in slow Metro buses commuting in the wee hours from the suburban slums outside the Loop.

I suppose that is why I enjoy the Montrose, and while it is succumbing to gentrification, its mishmash of cultures and socio-economic levels ensure its egalitarian nature in a city where that is disappearing.