Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[SilverJK]

So, if I make the argument in the historic preservation thread that property values have gone through the roof since the expansion of the HDs and the amendments to the historic ordinance, everyone would be cool with that, right?

 

If they hadn't been going up already before the HDs, and the neighboring non HD parts of the neighborhood weren't increasing in value at the same or greater rate, then yest you could say that.

[s3mh]

If they hadn't been going up already before the HDs, and the neighboring non HD parts of the neighborhood weren't increasing in value at the same or greater rate, then yest you could say that.

 

Are you saying new development wasn't already under way in the West End prior to Walmart?

[SilverJK]

Are you saying new development wasn't already under way in the West End prior to Walmart?

 

 

No.  The West End would emcompass a lot more area.  This specific few blocks had sat vacant (other than homeless and drug dealers) for a  very long time.  It would be safe to assume that the development was a catalyst to the changing of the neighborhoods climate.  What businesses within the development aren't important.  It could have been mixed use HEB/Whole Foods/Sprouts/ Kitty Day Spa / Oil change/ apartment complex and the result for the surrounding area would have been the same/similar.   Walmart was just the one with the coin to make it happen. 

[Leonard]

Walmart was the one with the scheme to get Parker to fork over the coin to make it happen. 

 

The logic that Walmart made Koehler better and coincidentally other streets are better for other reasons escapes me.  There are a lot of specific few blocks that have had older homes razed and townhouses built inside the loop since the Walmart was built.  It's just what's happening inside the loop. 

[RedScare]

Walmart was the one with the scheme to get Parker to fork over the coin to make it happen. 

 

The logic that Walmart made Koehler better and coincidentally other streets are better for other reasons escapes me.  There are a lot of specific few blocks that have had older homes razed and townhouses built inside the loop since the Walmart was built.  It's just what's happening inside the loop. 

 

Liar.

[Leonard]

Really?  What am I lying about?

[Leonard]

Just because you haven't seen older homes razed and townhouses built inside the loop doesn't mean it hasn't happened. 

[RedScare]

Walmart was the one with the scheme to get Parker to fork over the coin to make it happen. 

 

Lie.

[Leonard]

I disagree. 

[august948]

The logic that Walmart made Koehler better and coincidentally other streets are better for other reasons escapes me. There are a lot of specific few blocks that have had older homes razed and townhouses built inside the loop since the Walmart was built. It's just what's happening inside the loop.

Walmart makes things better wherever one pops up. Lower prices, larger selection, more competition, and redevelopment of surrounding areas are just a few advantages of having a Walmart come in. Plus it allows people of all socio-economic levels to rub elbows lest some forget that there are others out there who don't spend all day fretting about their neighbor's windows or worrying about buying humanely treated beef.

[s3mh]

No.  The West End would emcompass a lot more area.  This specific few blocks had sat vacant (other than homeless and drug dealers) for a  very long time.  It would be safe to assume that the development was a catalyst to the changing of the neighborhoods climate.  What businesses within the development aren't important.  It could have been mixed use HEB/Whole Foods/Sprouts/ Kitty Day Spa / Oil change/ apartment complex and the result for the surrounding area would have been the same/similar.   Walmart was just the one with the coin to make it happen. 

 

So, you are saying that the torrid housing market has nothing to do with it?  Are you saying that Frank Liu has been selling out townhome developments that are going up next to rail yards and steel mills just because of the fine mediteranean architecture and not because the housing market inside the loop is off the charts?  Redevlopment of the West End, including the properties next to Walmart, was in full swing long before Walmart broke ground.  In the current market, the development of that property is just a footnote on the reasons why investors are buying up property and developing over there. 

[SilverJK]

So, you are saying that the torrid housing market has nothing to do with it?  Are you saying that Frank Liu has been selling out townhome developments that are going up next to rail yards and steel mills just because of the fine mediteranean architecture and not because the housing market inside the loop is off the charts?  Redevlopment of the West End, including the properties next to Walmart, was in full swing long before Walmart broke ground.  In the current market, the development of that property is just a footnote on the reasons why investors are buying up property and developing over there. 

 

I think you just found a really bizarre arguementative way to agree with me. 

 

Like I said.... The development improved the area, it wouldn't have really mattered what it was.  Just because you don't like walmart doesn't mean they weren't the ones that caused the change.  Frank Liu, HEB, whomever could have been the ones to cause it, but Ainbinder/Walmart were the ones.  Just because Walmart isn't your preference doesn't change that.

[Leonard]

I think it does matter what the development was.  A better development would have improved the area.  This development isn't worth our $6M of taxpayer money.  Parker and Ainbinder said they would build anyway - that would have included sewer, water, turn lanes, traffic lights and sidewalks.  The infrastructure they put in is actually substandard.  Broken curbs and fire hydrants in the middle of the sidewalk is substandard development. 

 

Has the fire hydrant been moved yet? 

 

[august948]

I think it does matter what the development was. A better development would have improved the area.

So the Walmart harmed the area vs what is was before?

[Leonard]

Building the Walmart prevents something better being built there.  A grassy field is better than a Walmart, in my opinion.  I wouldn't buy a house next to a Walmart.  You might. 

 

Regardless of whether or not Walmart is great to live next to or not, the 380 was a waste of $6M of our taxpayer money, since Parker and Ainbinder both say they would have built it with our without the 380. 

[SilverJK]

Building the Walmart prevents something better being built there.  A grassy field is better than a Walmart, in my opinion.  I wouldn't buy a house next to a Walmart.  You might. 

 

Regardless of whether or not Walmart is great to live next to or not, the 380 was a waste of $6M of our taxpayer money, since Parker and Ainbinder both say they would have built it with our without the 380. 

 

yeah, but that has nothing to do with wheter the development improved the area or not.  Also for the billionth time... your beef with the 380 is with the city.  The city is the one that pushed it (aren't you the one that often quotes Ainbinder as saying they would have developed without it?).  A grassy field full of crack heads, homeless, and drug dealers isn't the same as just a grass field either.

[Leonard]

I know that the City, specifically Parker is responsible for this mess.  Who exactly is your beef with?  You got your precious Walmart, why aren't you happy?

[RedScare]

Actually, reading the posts, everyone except for you and s3mh does appear to be happy.

[Leonard]

Red, I'm sure you're particularly happy with the non-ADA compliant sidewalks.  More potential laughs for you. 

[SilverJK]

I know that the City, specifically Parker is responsible for this mess.  Who exactly is your beef with?  You got your precious Walmart, why aren't you happy?

 

 

I'm just pointing out that the walmart did in fact improve the area.  My beef is with Revival Market, and I will drop by to pick it up for dinner later.

 

 

As far as being happy, I was unaware that I was displaying any notion of unhappiness.  I'm just countering your statements because they are either baseless or unrelated to the previous statement.

 

 

(i.e., I call you out for bringing the 380 into whether the walmart improved the area, and you call me unhappy.)

Edited June 17, 2013 by SilverJK

[Leonard]

I'm not a liar, and I resent that.  Just because Red called me one does not make it so. 

 

Please keep your rude comments about me to yourself. 

 

 

[SilverJK]

Walmart was the one with the scheme to get Parker to fork over the coin to make it happen. 

 

 

This comment is hearsay at best, if not an outright lie/fabrication.  

 

I'm am sorry your offended, I removed the word "lies".  I was more implying your statement was based off a lie/fabrication not that you personally made up the lie.

Edited June 17, 2013 by SilverJK

[JJxvi]

Has the fire hydrant been moved yet? 

 

I don't know. Ive never found it. Other than the one that isn't even adjacent to Ainbinder's property.

[Leonard]

Did you go and look?  I think it's between Chase bank and Walmart on Koehler. 

[august948]

Building the Walmart prevents something better being built there.  A grassy field is better than a Walmart, in my opinion.  I wouldn't buy a house next to a Walmart.  You might. 

So a grassy field is better than a Walmart, eh? I'm guessing you've never been to Walmart then. Can you pick up groceries in a grassy field? Or buy toothpaste? Get some clothes for the kids? Diapers? Oil for the car? Air filters for the A/C?

Matter of fact I do live withing walking distance of a Walmart and it and the Lowes next to it and the HEB across the street have all been improvements over the grassy fields that were there before them. Now we've got a Sam's going in even closer next to the Super Target that I can also walk to. All big improvements over the grassy fields where they were built.

[Leonard]

Thanks, SilverJK, I appreciate that.  But I do believe that Walmart was involved in the 380, and I came to that conclusion on my own after reading a lot of stuff about it. 

 

And as one of my patented unrelated statements, I see on Swamplot that Buc-ees has gotten a 380 in Baytown and that this 380  "involves a waived height restriction for the store’s beaver beacon, so Buc-ee’s can raise one 100 ft. into the air".  This seems like a great use of Baytown's tax dollars to me  - giant beaver signs. 

 

http://swamplot.com/buc-ees-putting-itself-above-baytown/2013-06-17/

[s3mh]

So a grassy field is better than a Walmart, eh? I'm guessing you've never been to Walmart then. Can you pick up groceries in a grassy field? Or buy toothpaste? Get some clothes for the kids? Diapers? Oil for the car? Air filters for the A/C?

 

 

A grassy field is better than a Walmart if that means that something better will be developed.  If you look around Houston inside the loop, something better is being developed almost everywhere you look.  West Ave, Post Oak at W. Gray, Regent Square, the Mix midtown, Kirby Grove, River Oaks District, Sage Hotel, and 2801 Weslayan.  On every lot, you could put up a strip mall and say that it was better than what was there before (grassy field, run down garden style apartments, etc.).  But if the developers went for the quick money and put in more strip malls and big box stores, development inside the loop would be crap compared to what is actually going in. 

[barracuda]

Building the Walmart prevents something better being built there.  A grassy field is better than a Walmart, in my opinion.  I wouldn't buy a house next to a Walmart.  You might. 

 

Regardless of whether or not Walmart is great to live next to or not, the 380 was a waste of $6M of our taxpayer money, since Parker and Ainbinder both say they would have built it with our without the 380. 

 

Keep in mind this was built on a brownfield, not a pristine wilderness site. If this were the Katy Prairie instead of a former industrial site, I would agree with you. 

[SilverJK]

A grassy field is better than a Walmart if that means that something better will be developed.  If you look around Houston inside the loop, something better is being developed almost everywhere you look.  West Ave, Post Oak at W. Gray, Regent Square, the Mix midtown, Kirby Grove, River Oaks District, Sage Hotel, and 2801 Weslayan.  On every lot, you could put up a strip mall and say that it was better than what was there before (grassy field, run down garden style apartments, etc.).  But if the developers went for the quick money and put in more strip malls and big box stores, development inside the loop would be crap compared to what is actually going in. 

 

But you don't get to just decide on what is good and what isn't.  Protesting something that is perfectly within its rights isn't going to get you anywhere.  What you want is zoning, which has been shot down everytime it has been brought up.  I know you think it is important to have your idealistic version of development, (which I mostly  agree would be nice), but where you lose me is where you try to stop certain developments after the fact.  If there had been a group for the past 7 years pushing for some sort of mixed use development in the walmart location, and they have assited in sourcing/oraganizing a 380 style agreement for a particular type of business in that location, I could understand being upset with ainbinder for building this out for Walmart.  However nobody said anything really until ainbinder announced it would be a walmart. 

 

Why not find the next developable parcels of land that you think are at risk of becoming strip centers, and try to create something to make it benificial to the developer to build your idealistic development?  Proactive vs Reactive.  That would be something I bet more people would be supportive of.

[RedScare]

A grassy field is better than a Walmart if that means that something better will be developed.  If you look around Houston inside the loop, something better is being developed almost everywhere you look.  West Ave, Post Oak at W. Gray, Regent Square, the Mix midtown, Kirby Grove, River Oaks District, Sage Hotel, and 2801 Weslayan.  On every lot, you could put up a strip mall and say that it was better than what was there before (grassy field, run down garden style apartments, etc.).  But if the developers went for the quick money and put in more strip malls and big box stores, development inside the loop would be crap compared to what is actually going in. 

 

Virtually every development that you listed is not better for me...and for most of my neighbors. I do not need luxury midrise apartments, nor overpriced womens clothing. It likely is not better for you either, but you won't admit it. That's OK. I know that you go to Walmart in the middle of the night to pick up stuff you need, whether you admit it to us or not.

 

The more I think about it, those were some really hideous examples to attempt to outdo a Walmart. Maybe an HEB or a Home Depot, but overpriced clothing and jewelry? Come on!