The Heights Historic Districts

[Morrison]

Unless whiner and hypocrite are protected classes, I don't see y'all's point.

[fwki]

The Children of the Corn are up to no good once again in this feature presentation: 1213 Harvard CoA Denial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxevEAIppJU&feature=youtu.be

Commissioner Elliott is at his arrogant best as he explains that the aesthetics of your domicile will be judged not against the home as it stands today but rather against how the home existed long ago in the vivid imaginations of the Children of the Corn.....and stay tuned for the sequel because this one will be the first appeal after, as requested by Mayor Parker, the "joint" committee takes a ride on the Magic Bus right through the Heights, no doubt carefully following the treacherous former marathon route into the hinterland.  Breeders and builders beware, do not look into the eyes of the Children as they pass lest your progeny become sterile and whimsical and corrupt.

 

[SilverJK]

isnt there enough ammo to get this thrown out by now.  In the least this clown needs to be removed...

[Heightsfamily]

OMG. Where do I send my check for this cause - throwing out the monkey court? Love the Children of the Corn moniker . . .

[Morrison]

It is obvious to even the most casual observer that three or four of you have dedicated your lives to exposing the historic commission. That is astonishing.

However, the real tragedy here is not your chosen cause but rather that only five or six people read your impassioned posts. So while this echo chamber may be very loud, it just isn't seen by enough people. How will the good people ever learn about the brainwashing and corruption and oppression unless you take it to the public?

I propose that you start a shadow commission, you can hold it out in front of the downtown library. It would be a great way to bring more publicity to your opinions and viewpoints, but with less anonymity and probably a lot more hyperbole. I'm sure you will be well received by the audience. You could even sell tickets and raise a little money!

[SilverJK]

Morrison,  what you describe would take the dedication of people's lives... versus a few minutes on a keyboard sporadically throughout the day.  

 

 

It is also obvious then to the most casual observer that 1 person had dedicated their life to the support of the historic commission. 

[Morrison]

Don't deflect, and don't be modest. You guys are doing something really *special* here.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Morrison

[TGM]

Don't deflect, and don't be modest. You guys are doing something really *special* here.

Is that you Jim?

[Morrison]

No.

[jamesw]

I live down the street from 1213 Harvard and I can not believe what the commission told them!  Their house was enlarged in the past w/ one of those 80's horrible looking "pop-outs" that looks like sticking a big box onto a house made of triangles.  The proposed addition will make the house fit in MUCH better w/ the historic character of our street and will look MORE compatible after this proposed addition is done.  But it was denied???  This is after the commission also denied their neighbor's addition (overturned on appeal) which is next to a multi-story apartment building...

Anyhow this makes no sense to me what the commission is doing.  The proposed addition for 1213 would meet the needs of the homeowners (it's THEIR house and they have 2 young kids now) and will better the neighborhood while becoming MORE conforming to the historical character.

And Lauren - put all the nut-job hyperbole aside that you read here (it's pretty out there) and just have a drive by the house(s) in question on the way home and you'll see what I mean.

Cheers

James

[fwki]

I...And Lauren - put all the nut-job hyperbole aside that you read here (it's pretty out there) ....

 

Lauren, that would be me, having some Halloween fun.  Next up: Thanksgiving, unless they do something stupid on Armistice Day.

[Heightsite]

I'm at a loss on the historic guidelines make our neighborhood "historically" acceptable. I have a Queen Anne bungalow. From researching similar homes at the turn of the century, it's my understanding that the ornate QA's generally started with the humble bungalow until resources and needs for more space converted the lowly bungalow into an ornate full blown QA. Is that correct? If so, the setbacks are totally against historical integrity which makes me question any and all regulations shoved down our collective throats. While I will always respect doing the right thing, there are many benefits to asking for forgiveness rather than permission.

[s3mh]

I'm at a loss on the historic guidelines make our neighborhood "historically" acceptable. I have a Queen Anne bungalow. From researching similar homes at the turn of the century, it's my understanding that the ornate QA's generally started with the humble bungalow until resources and needs for more space converted the lowly bungalow into an ornate full blown QA. Is that correct? If so, the setbacks are totally against historical integrity which makes me question any and all regulations shoved down our collective throats. While I will always respect doing the right thing, there are many benefits to asking for forgiveness rather than permission.

 

Not correct.  Queen Anne architecture pre-dates the craftsman bungalows.  Most Queen Anne houses in the Heights are from right around the turn of the century and were built with transomed windows (the Victorian era method for getting air circulation--good example of Queen Anne elevation here:  http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,20713808,00.html).  Ones that do not or that have some more craftsman looking elements (tapered columns, etc) are probably craftsman bungalows that borrow on some Queen Anne elements.  But there was no process of building a little bungalow and then adding on a Queen Anne elevation on the front of the building.   

[Texasota]

There are quite a few houses in the Heights that show a mix of styles though: Craftsman forms with Queen Anne detailing, Queen Anne forms with craftsman detailing etc. This is Houston; nothing is ever pure.

 

But yeah, they're not pokemon. Bungalows don't evolve into queen annes. 

[briekelman]

Hi all,

 

I've gone a bit quiet after the whole unintentional window drama. I know I don't need to further explain myself to 99.5% of you, but in my defense to the 0.5% of you who still think I'm evil, I will say that I posted 2 extra times on Nextdoor:

 

• in response to person 1,
  I know that George does wonderful work. That is why I promoted him at the historic preservation fair as well as why I gave him a compliment in my original post. The only reason I even mentioned him was because every other post I've seen on next door about old window repair has recommended him (again this is a tribute to his good work), and unfortunately for me, he does not want to work on my windows, so I need to find an alternative and was asking for help. He has spoken for why he does not want to help us (actually in more appropriate language than to us originally). In terms of your clarification as to what I am doing, of course I want to restore them and make them as functional and energy efficient as possible. I know this is something that he specializes in, and it would be great if I could find someone who can do it as well as him too.
   
• in response to person 2 later who was asking if I had found anyone:
  Hi Jimmy,
  Thanks for asking; I sent all of the great recommendations to my builder while I was out of town last week. I know he's started talking to them and feels like we have many great options. I haven't talked to him since I've been back in town (late Friday night - I try to leave him alone on weekends as much as possible!), so I'm not sure if he's chosen anyone yet.
  
  Separately, I did not intend for my question to cause drama, and I called George to apologize. I thought "unwilling to help" was pretty PG, but apparently others disagreed. Also, to those who thought it was inappropriate for to ask for help on a public forum, please know that before posting on Nextdoor, I asked everyone I knew possible if they had any recommendations: the Historic Preservation Staff, Lynn with Historic Houston, neighbors, etc. They all recommended George - again a tribute to his great work and fabulous reputation, but unfortunately for me, this didn't help get me anywhere in restoring/fixing my historic windows. I waited for ~2 months after talking to him before posting on Nextdoor b/c I thought that maybe we'd be able to find someone. I also tried to think of the best way to ask the question b/c every other post I've seen in the past recommended him. I know he's busy and has a long waiting list, so I assumed that if I said something like "can't help us," it would lead people to say: "he's busy but worth waiting for" or something similar, which again speaks very highly of him, but doesn't help get all of my windows restored, now that it's time for us to get moving on the windows. Alas "unwilling to help" was the best I could come up with, which didn't seem bad or rude to me!
  
  Thanks again to everyone for your recommendations!

[briekelman]

My new next-door neighbors are trying to remodel their house. Bungalow Revival is their designer/builder, and even HE, as the most well-known Historic Preservationist in Houston (if not TX), cannot get through the HAHC - crazy. They are only adding ~800 SF for a total square footage of 2,624, which is less than their whole block's average. The appeal is this Thursday, Oct 31 @ 2:30 pm.

 

Click here to see a photo album that shows the shoddy 1990's addition, which is the ONLY thing that they are removing and replacing with a much better, more cohesive addition. The new space will actually be safe (unlike the current 1990's addition) and will make their house function (their 2nd daughter spent the first year of her life in a closet!). 

Can you please each send the email that I have drafted below to show your support for these wonderful neighbors of ours? We don't want to lose to the suburbs! Feel free to embellish as much as you would like, but in case you are busy, feel free to copy/paste/send. I left several things in red at the bottom, so you would remember to modify/personalize for you. Many thanks!

To:  Delaney.Harris-Finch@houstontx.gov,historicpreservation@houstontx.gov

cc:  jzucker@yettercoleman.com, triciazucker@hotmail.com

 

Subject: Support letter for 1213 Harvard COA

I am writing to show my support of the Zucker's renovation project at 1213 Harvard and encourage the Planning Commission to grant them a Certificate of Appropriateness. I am unable to attend the Planning Commission meeting in-person to show my support; therefore, this letter must suffice.

Their project complies with the Ordinance and will be a great improvement to the neighborhood.

Please respond to confirm that you will include this letter in the packet you will provide the Planning Commission on Oct 31.

 

Thank you,

Name

The Heights (if applicable)
Address (if applicable)
Historic District Heights East (or whatever HD you are in if applicable)

[fwki]

The verdict is in.  The Planning Commission is no longer the opportunity for fair judgment for those hapless Heights families aggrieved by whimsical HAHC decisions.  After months of attempting to beat HAHC opponents at the Planning Commission by tweaking the rules but still getting their collective asses handed to them by superior arguments, Gafrick has thrown in the towel and will no longer allow public comment.  Also the appellants will no longer be allowed to address any issues other than those pre-determined by the HAHC as relevant to the appeal.  So HD buyers beware: if you are not prepared to grab your ankles and take what the HAHC is giving, stay away from  any property that needs work.  Unless of course you are a DINK, Empty Nester, barren old lady or alt.life.style.

 

Time for me to join the Repeal the Ordinance team, there's no middle ground for Parker and her fellow freaks.

[Texasota]

 So HD buyers beware: if you are not prepared to grab your ankles and take what the HAHC is giving, stay away from  any property that needs work.  Unless of course you are a DINK, Empty Nester, barren old lady or alt.life.style.

 

Time for me to join the Repeal the Ordinance team, there's no middle ground for Parker and her fellow freaks.

 

Stay classy, fwki. Stay classy.

[Ross]

The verdict is in.  The Planning Commission is no longer the opportunity for fair judgment for those hapless Heights families aggrieved by whimsical HAHC decisions.  After months of attempting to beat HAHC opponents at the Planning Commission by tweaking the rules but still getting their collective asses handed to them by superior arguments, Gafrick has thrown in the towel and will no longer allow public comment.  Also the appellants will no longer be allowed to address any issues other than those pre-determined by the HAHC as relevant to the appeal.  So HD buyers beware: if you are not prepared to grab your ankles and take what the HAHC is giving, stay away from  any property that needs work.  Unless of course you are a DINK, Empty Nester, barren old lady or alt.life.style.

 

Time for me to join the Repeal the Ordinance team, there's no middle ground for Parker and her fellow freaks.

 

Was there an announcement for this that we can see?

 

[briekelman]

http://houstontx.swagit.com/play/10312013-616

Click on Roman numeral v on right.

2 were overturned and 2 were upheld (both of Bungalow Revival's projects were denied coa's - Houston's best and most famous historic preservationist)

A - bicycle bungalow - overturned Hahc

B - bungalow revival - upheld Hahc (my new next door neighbors who are only adding 835 SF by removing a bad 90's addition

C - creole new construction - overturned Hahc

D - Bungalow Revival - upheld Hahc and denied a dormer

A lot of emotion and exhaustion right now, and I sincerely hope that this doesn't result in my new neighbors moving.

[fwki]

Stay classy, fwki. Stay classy.

 

He he he he he, knew that one would get ya Tex.  You shoulda seen the first draft, but it crashed Windows 8.1, took it as a sign and removed all satanic Halloween references....but then again, it coulda just been Windows 8.1. 

[Marksmu]

http://houstontx.swagit.com/play/10312013-616

Click on Roman numeral v on right.

2 were overturned and 2 were upheld (both of Bungalow Revival's projects were denied coa's - Houston's best and most famous historic preservationist)

A - bicycle bungalow - overturned Hahc

B - bungalow revival - upheld Hahc (my new next door neighbors who are only adding 835 SF by removing a bad 90's addition

C - creole new construction - overturned Hahc

D - Bungalow Revival - upheld Hahc and denied a dormer

A lot of emotion and exhaustion right now, and I sincerely hope that this doesn't result in my new neighbors moving.

 

Very sad indeed.  It seems the very vocal minority with the most extreme views has officially taken hold in our neighborhood.  Really sad indeed.  I was out trick or treating last night, and one thing was abundantly clear to me - 90+% of the new construction which is family friendly was occupied by families with young children (average age looked to be 3), while the ultra majority of the original housing was occupied by older people with no kids at all.  On top of that, of the original houses on the 3 streets we went on, about 60% were not participating in Halloween at all.  Lights off, gates locked...

 

I say this as anecdotal evidence of what I already know to be true.  The older people, with no families who wish to keep the Heights "historic" are fighting the growth of the neighborhood to keep their property values lower not because they care even one iota about preservation...They may think their house is cute and that it is a good size for them, but their fight is about nothing more than not getting taxed out of the area.  When the neighborhood comes out at night, like it did last night, the segregation between the two groups is abundantly clear.

[arche_757]

^ Well - I really have no sheep in this fight - but of course the older families who have lived there for many years are wanting to keep their property taxes valued lower.  Who wants to have their taxes increased?  And any neighborhood like this is going to have that generational divide.

 

As for commissions rightly or wrongly rejecting proposed additions - that's why you hire an architect.  The added expense is worth it as a competant architect will be able to fight for you in town council meetings, or historic preservation societies/commissions what-have-you.  They will also be able to better explain the additions (or subtractions) and if need be work on making slight alterations to gain acceptance.

 

We do this all the time in Galveston (which has a very strong preservation group - very strong) and it is very common to get rejections and have to go back and tweak things to get accepted.

Edited November 1, 2013 by arche_757

[Marksmu]

^ Well - I really have no sheep in this fight - but of course the older families who have lived there for many years are wanting to keep their property taxes valued lower.  Who wants to have their taxes increased?  And any neighborhood like this is going to have that generational divide.

 

As for commissions rightly or wrongly rejecting proposed additions - that's why you hire an architect.  The added expense is worth it as a competant architect will be able to fight for you in town council meetings, or historic preservation societies/commissions what-have-you.  They will also be able to better explain the additions (or subtractions) and if need be work on making slight alterations to gain acceptance.

 

We do this all the time in Galveston (which has a very strong preservation group - very strong) and it is very common to get rejections and have to go back and tweak things to get accepted.

 

Bungalow Revival received two rejections yesterday and they are architects/builders who many perceive to be one of the best operating in the Heights.  I do not know how Galveston's restrictions are written, but the Heights restrictions are so broad, arbitrary, and open to abuse of discretion as to be nothing more than a guide...the Commission is rejecting houses that comply with all restrictions for whatever reason they feel like...if you watch the meetings you can see the members say things something to the effect of:  Well ya, it meets all the requirements, but it just feels wrong, or it feels to big...its very saddening to see this happening.

 

The vibe of the Heights has been all positive, except for the people shoving the historic regulations down everyones throats...these people are literally trying to ruin the neighborhood.

[Texasota]

 

 

The vibe of the Heights has been all positive, except for the people shoving the historic regulations down everyones throats...these people are literally trying to ruin the neighborhood.

 

By definition, the people building additions are the ones changing the neighborhood. Unless you believe the Heights is already ruined, and the addition-builders are un-ruining it.

[arche_757]

Then the homeowners within the Heights really need to orginize an effort to take back control over those restrictions to some extent.  Perhaps legal action needs to be taken?  Sounds like opinions - and not well written regulations - are driving what is being rejected or approved?  That sounds very suspect to me.

 

Galveston is the epitomy of historical preservation.  The rules here are very good and well enforced (for the most part); but there are still problems (such as using non-wood windows - which the majority of impact windows ARE not wood).  That's a big issue.

 

Galveston's historical preservation is widely known, and many towns around the country have adopted rules very similar to theirs.  Perhaps The Heights needs to look south towards a more reasonable set of standards?

[Marksmu]

By definition, the people building additions are the ones changing the neighborhood. Unless you believe the Heights is already ruined, and the addition-builders are un-ruining it.

 

Wrong - the ultra majority of people who are doing additions owned the property 100% unrestricted prior to the ordinance being enacted....there are some who did not but they are very much the minority.  The Heights is not some glorious window into the past like many other real Historic Districts.  Nearly every single block, if not every single block, already has new construction on it.  The sole purpose of the ordinance was to stop the expansion of the homes so that the rapidly skyrocketing values could be kept in check and the people who can't afford the taxes on a $800K home can stay.  It has never been about architecture or preservation, that has always been a lie.

 

The people moving in are great for the area - they have huge sums of disposable income, which is reflected in the growth of restaurants and shopping, they are mostly dual income young families with no children, or young children who are rejuvenating the schools and the parks and bringing back the strong sense of neighborhood....being friendly and getting together to really form a cohesive neighborhood.  Meanwhile we have the old people, with no kids attempting to stop the positive changes b/c they are pissed they cant afford their house anymore.  I have no sympathy for them.  The neighborhood is not historic and it never was, its time to give up the sham, and let people add on and rebuild homes that are actually suitable for a modern day lifestyle with children.

 

If the preservationist got their way none of the positive growth of the area would have occurred.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Marksmu

[august948]

Meanwhile we have the old people, with no kids attempting to stop the positive changes b/c they are pissed they cant afford their house anymore. 

 

Doesn't the over-65 homestead exemption mitigate that?

 

[Marksmu]

Doesn't the over-65 homestead exemption mitigate that?

 

 

Partially yes - but from my casual observations of the neighborhood the majority of folks who are against growth and prosperity are in their late 50's and they are seeing that their savings accounts coupled with social security are not going to pay the taxes for their retirement if they cant keep their values from skyrocketing further in the next 3-9 years until they hit 65.

[august948]

I feel for them as it would really suck if you bought a house in your 20's, raised a family in it with all the memories and such and then be forced out by circumstances beyond their control.  It's a losing battle, though.