President Bush

[DJ V Lawrence]

Believe it or not, Krix's stories of abduction are very accurate. The North have also been known in history to abduct famous South Korean actresses to have them perform North Korean films and what have you.

Jeebus, I understand where you're coming from. I'm in no way saying we should launch an attack. But I don't understand how Iran poses a bigger threat to the U.S. than North Korea if the North's pursuing weapons to directly attack the U.S. mainland. I thought the war on terror was to deter another attack on U.S. soil. I want to see both Iran and North Korea's situations end diplomatically, but shouldn't North Korea be more of a concern than Iran?

[TJones]

If the recent announcement of North Korea test launching a long range missile possibly on Sunday doesn't convince you the Bush administration is completely incompetent when it comes to national security, diplomacy, and foreign affairs, then nothing will.

What in God's name is this administration doing? We have no capability what so ever to use force against Iran if it is necessary. We have no capability to stop North Korea. We are barely just staying above water in Iraq with nothing more than surprise visit gimmicks by the President.

All while North Korea has been developing nuclear capabilities and missiles right under our noses. Feel any safer now?

posted by John Coby at 9:57 AM | 0 comments links to this post

Mr. Coby, if you were President, what would you have done differently after 9/11 ? From what it looks like you would have gone after N.Korea first, you presume them to be a greater threat than the radical Muslims who had already proven their willingness to harm us, where as N.Korea has launched no weapons at us, taken none of our citizens as hostages. The reason we went to war with them back in the 50's was to stop Communism from spreading any further. They got their nukes from Russia and China, so who is to blame, the little pot belly dog eating dictator of N.Korea, or Putin and his predecessors for selling the weapons? DO we now go to and tell these countries to reel their boy back in before we do something about it, or do we let them fend for themselves ?

I am not worried about N.Korea launching a nuke at us, all it does is tells everyone to leave them alone and they will leave us alone. They do not have a "Jihad" going on in N.Korea, we are not "infidels" to them. I agree that Kim Jon "Ilk" needs to be taken out just like Saddam, it is only a matter of time though. John, is it that you are afraid that as soon as they have the capabilities, that they are just gonna go to launch ? Come on, get real, it is just a bargaining chip that will force us in some capacity to leave them alone. Like others on here have said, "we have no interests in N.Korea", we don't import any products from them, we are simply being Big Brother to Russia and Europe to show that we don't want N.Korea threatening them with their new toy.

Edited June 20, 2006 by TJones

[krix]

Believe it or not, Krix's stories of abduction are very accurate. The North have also been known in history to abduct famous South Korean actresses to have them perform North Korean films and what have you.

Well, the Dear Leader himself admitted to it when the Japanese Prime Minister went to Pyongyang (of course it was some North Korean Secret Service Generals who were responsible for this, no way the Dear Leader or his father would have authorized such a crime, LOL). He was hoping for diplomatic recognition or at least more aid, but the public backlash in Japan was so great that nothing has come out of it, except for the North Korean government allowing the abductees to return home with their families (including this American defector Jennings (Jenkins?), who had married one of the abductees)...

[jmancuso]

yeah, he's known for his admiration for daffy duck cartoons and pr0n.

[TJones]

As a point of interest, North Korea's leader enjoys Hollywood movies. Actually, he enjoys movies in general.

and he really enjoys movies with Generals in them.

yeah, he's known for his admiration for daffy duck cartoons and pr0n.

Well, if it is just daffy duck and pr0n, then we should really have nothing to worry about. Now, if he was a deviant and looked at porn all the time, (not that there is anything WRONG with that), then we might have something to worry about.

Edited June 20, 2006 by TJones

[TheNiche]

The reason we dont care about N Korea is because we dont have any interests there. Duh, you dont get it?

Whoever said we didn't care about them?

It'd seem like the combination of having an aging nutcase for a leader (with a questionable succession plan), who clearly doesn't care for his people, is openly pursuing nuclear weapons (and claims to have them), and is developing delivery systems for them...might just be something of interest to the U.S.

Besides, major trading partners (Russia, China, Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan) seem to be showing concern for the situation...if only to save face in front of them, shouldn't we at least feign concern for their interests?

Sorry if I'm being thick-headed, but what am I not getting?

[RedScare]

Whoever said we didn't care about them?

It'd seem like the combination of having an aging nutcase for a leader (with a questionable succession plan), who clearly doesn't care for his people...might just be something of interest to the U.S.

Such a charming thought.

Kind of reminds me of those people who still believe we invaded Iraq to free the Iraqis....it is such a quaint idea.

[Jeebus]

Jeebus, I understand where you're coming from. I'm in no way saying we should launch an attack. But I don't understand how Iran poses a bigger threat to the U.S. than North Korea if the North's pursuing weapons to directly attack the U.S. mainland. I thought the war on terror was to deter another attack on U.S. soil. I want to see both Iran and North Korea's situations end diplomatically, but shouldn't North Korea be more of a concern than Iran?

3 Reason's why Iran is more important than North Korea.

1. Oil

2. Terrorism

3. Nuclear Capability

[nmainguy]

Bush and Cheney decided to invade Iraq for two reasons: Cheney because of oil and Bush because "he tried to kill my dad." Our CIA and DOD has known for years N. Korea has the ability to strike our west coast and most assuredly Alaska with missles. They also knew Iraq had nothing of the kind. They were ignored and manipulated by two men with self-serving motives.

I don't have an answer to the problem of this guy in N. Korea but I do know we spend a lot of energy on a guy who's in our custody and never was the threat we were lied to about and very little attention to a guy who actually has the weapons to strike us and some of our loved ones head-on.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

All i have to say to this is..... i would like to see William Perry and shout in his arrogant face a great big "We told you so!!!!"

[nmainguy]

All i have to say to this is..... i would like to see William Perry and shout in his arrogant face a great big "We told you so!!!!"

...which would do nothing except maybe make you feel good for a couple of minutes. Of course shouting in the face of Bush and Cheney wouldn't do any good either. A liar is a liar is a liar. More than 2500 of our kids have died for those lies and what do we have? An Iraq that never was a threat and a N. Korea that could smack Portland in a minute.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

...which would do nothing except maybe make you feel good for a couple of minutes. Of course shouting in the face of Bush and Cheney wouldn't do any good either. A liar is a liar is a liar. More than 2500 of our kids have died for those lies and what do we have? An Iraq that never was a threat and a N. Korea that could smack Portland in a minute.

A couple of minutes? My My. Do you know who W. Perry was? There were plans in place to take care of this mess before it got to its present state. Now things have progressed, just a little further along. What do you think we should do to "take care of it"?

If you divorce yourself from political parties, party line garbage and take a hard look, you will see republicans and democrats are more a like than different.

[nmainguy]

A couple of minutes? My My. Do you know who W. Perry was? There were plans in place to take care of this mess before it got to its present state. Now things have progressed, just a little further along. What do you think we should do to "take care of it"?

If you divorce yourself from political parties, party line garbage and take a hard look, you will see republicans and democrats are more a like than different.

I know who Perry was as well as I know who Rumsfeld is.

Perry as Secretary of Defense presided over a war in Bosnia where not one US soldier died.

Rumsfeld continues to send our kids into an un-winnable civil ground war in Iraq that has produced the deaths of more than 2500 of our kids. What are thier families crying for?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I know who Perry was as well as I know who Rumsfeld is.

Perry as Secretary of Defense presided over a war in Bosnia where not one US soldier died.

Rumsfeld continues to send our kids into an un-winnable civil ground war in Iraq that has produced the deaths of more than 2500 of our kids. What are thier families crying for?

Those 2 men are more a like than you think. Would take me forever to explain it to you because it goes way beyond republican/democrat :(:(

[nmainguy]

Those 2 men are more a like than you think. Would take me forever to explain it to you because it goes way beyond republican/democrat :(:(

Which two men? Perry and Rumsfeld? Perry seeked and listened to the advice of military experts. Rumsfeld choose to ignore the voices of experience. Now we are in a quagmire created by Cheney and Bush; prosecuted by Rumsfeld. This has nothing to do with political parties or an ex-president and his Secretary of Defense. It has everything to do with the men who are waging this war.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Which two men? Perry and Rumsfeld? Perry seeked and listened to the advice of military experts. Rumsfeld choose to ignore the voices of experience. Now we are in a quagmire created by Cheney and Bush; prosecuted by Rumsfeld. This has nothing to do with political parties or an ex-president and his Secretary of Defense. It has everything to do with the men who are waging this war.

We are at war with N Korea and Iran? I will alert the media, they seemed to have missed that one..........

[nmainguy]

QUOTE(nmainguy @ Monday, June 19th, 2006 @ 10:29pm)

Which two men? Perry and Rumsfeld? Perry seeked and listened to the advice of military experts. Rumsfeld choose to ignore the voices of experience. Now we are in a quagmire created by Cheney and Bush; prosecuted by Rumsfeld. This has nothing to do with political parties or an ex-president and his Secretary of Defense. It has everything to do with the men who are waging this war.

We are at war with N Korea and Iran? I will alert the media, they seemed to have missed that one..........

I never said anything about Iran and only refered to N. Korea as an ignored issue.

Edited June 20, 2006 by nmainguy

[TheNiche]

Such a charming thought.

Kind of reminds me of those people who still believe we invaded Iraq to free the Iraqis....it is such a quaint idea.

No, I wan't making the humanitarian argument by stating what you'd quoted. What's scary about it is that he could care less what happens to his population if military confrontation occurs. In the Cold War, the U.S.S.R. treated its populous like crap, but at least cared about them in the larger more abstract sense...it was undesirable to have them incinerated in a nuclear holocaust, and it was that undesirability that created the stalemate. The same assumptions may not apply to N. Korea, which means that Kim is more likely to do something crazy.

And his instability is something that compounds the risk associated with threats to U.S. economic and political interests.

[DJ V Lawrence]

3 Reason's why Iran is more important than North Korea.

1. Oil

2. Terrorism

3. Nuclear Capability

The only one I understood out of the list was terrorism. I'm not sure how involved Iran's government is when it comes to funding extremists, but I would imagine it is a lot more than North Korea. Still, I haven't heard anything on the news when it came to Iran making missiles or WMD that could reach the U.S. (correct me if I'm wrong on that one).

Invading Iran for the pursuit of oil would be lame. If that were to happen, it would be obvious that the Iraq war was mainly for oil as well. If Bush's administration would attack Iraq or Iran for oil, just come out and say it. Don't lie and say it's part of the war on terror if that were the case. Just say "Yo, you got oil. We don't. Gimme yo' Black Juice, FRUIT!" This DJ doesn't like being lied to. I'm a big boy. I can take the truth.

Who has more capability to attack the U.S. with a nuclear weapon between Iran and North Korea? Remember, as Iran has been questionable about if they've been using their nuclear power facilities to make nuclear weapons, North Korea's actually come out and said they have a nuclear weapons program, and are planning on testing a long-range weapon that could reach the U.S. mainland (not even Alaska or Hawaii. We're talking Seattle, L.A., San Fransisco, etc.) Iran seems to me to be more of a direct threat to it's neighbors than to the U.S.

I do believe that if N. Korea had oil or something valuable in it's land, we'd see it as #1 on the national news headlines...

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Iran is and has been developing a long rangle missle capable of hitting western Europe and the USA. Its been going on for some time now. Funny how that doesnt seem to make it to light very often.

I have said it before and i will say it again, the world was a much better place during the Cold War years than it is now. At that time, we have a clear cut defined enemy that we had no reservations on cutting off and killing. That same enemy kept its minions in line for they knew the stated US military policy and commitment to enforcing it would bring much of the world into the stone age. Now with the collapse of the USSR and the collapse of US will to enforce the SIOP, there are lots of mini motherf'ers popping up all over the place. Mainly because they view the US as weak and not having the will to kick it to the levels that would completely and utterly destroy them and those that support them. So far the SIOP model has been right on the money, in predicting the results of inaction, and if the trend continues, things will get a whole lot worst.

As far as Irans oil, dont count on it. That oil is not intended for US consumption and control, its intended for thier boss, Russia. Russia has managed to achieve some very large in roads into Iran these last few years without so much as the US raising an eyebrow. Iran has long been a target of Russia.....

[TheNiche]

As far as Irans oil, dont count on it. That oil is not intended for US consumption and control, its intended for thier boss, Russia.

I don't get this. Any oil that is brought by Iran to any foreign market is satisfying an economic demand that otherwise would have been placed upon a different supplier in the global market. Thus, Iran is incapable of effectively limiting "U.S. consumption and control" of oil resources...although that phrase is even misleading because the U.S. government isn't the consumer of oil so much as are multinational companies without national loyalties.

[TJones]

Does anyone know the current number of our military in Iraq ? What is the percentage of our military in Iraq, as opposed to troops we have here ? How much of our current military force is in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

I ask because I had a bit of an epithany on the way home from work tonight. I heard that Japan plans on pulling troops out of Iraq tomorrow, and We are waiting for N.Korea to test a missile. Seems like peculiar timing to me on Japan's part. I know they don't have a very larger force helping us, but I am looking at a bigger picture here. N.Korea and Japan, while not the tightest of buddies, they do alot of business together.

Big "what if" here, but IF N.Korea wanted to eliminate a good chunk of our armed forces where would you go if you had the capabilities? You don't have to fire on the U.S. soil to do it, and you are a well-known Meglomaniac. What would your firing solution be ?

Edited June 20, 2006 by TJones

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I don't get this. Any oil that is brought by Iran to any foreign market is satisfying an economic demand that otherwise would have been placed upon a different supplier in the global market. Thus, Iran is incapable of effectively limiting "U.S. consumption and control" of oil resources...although that phrase is even misleading because the U.S. government isn't the consumer of oil so much as are multinational companies without national loyalties.

You are not alone. Do you work for a multinational company without national loyalties? Do you know of any? Iran, in its location and its oil is more important to Russia than the USA. The military advances they have made did not come from multinational companies without national loyalties. It came from a source that will demand payment in return if it hasnt already. That payment will be in the form of oil and greater access to Iranian assets....

Does anyone know the current number of our military in Iraq ? What is the percentage of our military in Iraq, as opposed to troops we have here ? How much of our current military force is in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

I ask because I had a bit of an epithany on the way home from work tonight. I heard that Japan plans on pulling troops out of Iraq tomorrow, and We are waiting for N.Korea to test a missile. Seems like peculiar timing to me on Japan's part. I know they don't have a very larger force helping us, but I am looking at a bigger picture here. N.Korea and Japan, while not the tightest of buddies, they do alot of business together.

Big "what if" here, but IF N.Korea wanted to eliminate a good chunk of our armed forces where would you go if you had the capabilities? You don't have to fire on the U.S. soil to do it, and you are a well-known Meglomaniac. What would your firing solution be ?

Japanese defences are pretty minimal in the grand picture. They rely heavily on the USA for defence and sit under the US nuclear umbrella. I think the removal of Japanese forces would have more to do with home grown politics than anything with N Korea.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Big "what if" here, but IF N.Korea wanted to eliminate a good chunk of our armed forces where would you go if you had the capabilities? You don't have to fire on the U.S. soil to do it, and you are a well-known Meglomaniac. What would your firing solution be ?

We have between 30,000 to 40,000 troops in South Korea, plus some in Japan and throughout the Pacific. If N. Korea were that crazy, they'd attack South Korea, but with our troops, they'd also be messing with South Korea's ROK Army. It's known that North Korea has over a million troops, but that's more than equalized when you consider how much more technically advanced the U.S., Korea, and Japan are. From what I've heard, North Korea's weapons are modeled from Russia's weapons in the '50s, 60's, and 70's. Perhaps a few from the Cold War as well.

One thing though is that our military is being stretched so thin that they've now begun deploying American troops from Korea to Iraq, which is a sore subject to many Koreans there.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

One thing though is that our military is being stretched so thin that they've now begun deploying American troops from Korea to Iraq, which is a sore subject to many Koreans there.

You are on to something here....now look at the picture from a w-i-d-e-r angle. Anytime theres troop reductions in the Pacific and Oceania regions, it is compensated for in other ways. Chef Emeril will define it " kicking things up a notch" :)

[TJones]

We have between 30,000 to 40,000 troops in South Korea, plus some in Japan and throughout the Pacific. If N. Korea were that crazy, they'd attack South Korea, but with our troops, they'd also be messing with South Korea's ROK Army. It's known that North Korea has over a million troops, but that's more than equalized when you consider how much more technically advanced the U.S., Korea, and Japan are. From what I've heard, North Korea's weapons are modeled from Russia's weapons in the '50s, 60's, and 70's. Perhaps a few from the Cold War as well.

One thing though is that our military is being stretched so thin that they've now begun deploying American troops from Korea to Iraq, which is a sore subject to many Koreans there.

It is not as thin as you think. I found out today, that we only have about 30% of our total military in actual operation mode. Makes me feel a little better, but doesn't detract from the fact of what a blow it would be to the American psyche if N.Korea actually attacked there instead of trying to reach all the way here. I think the response would be tremendous from us, and overwhelming to N.Korea. I think that if we were to lose 30% of our military in one swoop, I think a 60% signup response would be automatic to replace the numbers lost. I pray we won't have to see this happen, but N.Korea better pray even harder that this doesn't happen for their sake.

Edited June 20, 2006 by TJones

[DJ V Lawrence]

It is not as thin as you think. I found out today, that we only have about 30% of our total military in actual operation mode. Makes me feel a little better, but doesn't detract from the fact of what a blow it would be to the American psyche if N.Korea actually attacked there instead of trying to reach all the way here. I think the response would be tremendous from us, and overwhelming to N.Korea. I think that if we were to lose 30% of our military in one swoop, I think a 60% signup response would be automatic to replace the numbers lost. I pray we won't have to see this happen, but N.Korea better pray even harder that this doesn't happen for there sake.

The only way for that to happen is if South Korean soil were attacked, in which case would restart the Korean War. Both sides are setup for if the war were to restart combat, but that's something neither side wants. The dream for both countries are to eventually unify peacefully, but the South is highly democratic, and the North is more communist than Hitler's Germany. The North probably wouldn't want to attack Korea's mainland anytime soon, but our troops are there because of a "just-in-case" senario...almost like the Cold War.

If the North were to attack the U.S., they would aim to launch directly at our mainland. Then they figure that our troops in the South would retaliate, and would hope the South unified with the North because the U.S. "provoked" the North into attacking South Korean soil and getting the South involved in a war that they don't want to see on their turf. I think their missile would be intercepted by our missile defense, but I think it'd piss America off beyond belief, and we'd have ourselves a showdown.

That's why their missile and WMD programs are a great concern. They'd be aiming directly at us. Has anyone here seen any of the anti-American propoganda that they brainwash their citizens with? The Saturday monrning cartoons that are anti-Bush, or the games at their carnivals and "theme parks" where you can throw a bullet-shaped bean bag into a drawing of a U.S. soilder?

[TJones]

DJ, do you really think they'll unify as long as Kim Jon Ilk is in power ? Albright says he is not crazy, show me in the history of the world where the Dictator of a country was NOT crazy !

Is it any wonder why we don't want Iran to enrich uranium for "Power Plants Only" ? We already got duped by N.Korea claiming that the light water reactors would only be used for "Power Plants Only". Good one Kim Jon, you suckered us good.

[johncoby]

Mr. Coby, if you were President, what would you have done differently after 9/11 ? From what it looks like you would have gone after N.Korea first, you presume them to be a greater threat than the radical Muslims who had already proven their willingness to harm us, where as N.Korea has launched no weapons at us, taken none of our citizens as hostages.

That is a pretty ignorant statement. There was no "nation" that attacked the US, but the taliban in Afghanistan was harboring those who planned the attack. Going after them was the right thing to do and was overwhelmingly supported by Americans and the world.

I would have at the very least, finished the job in Afhganistan before looking for trouble anywhere else.

At the time N. Korea was under an agreement to keep their nuclear development halted. Same with Iran. We had cameras on their reactors and facilities. They were contained on a nuclear front. Until W took over.

Finish the job in Afghanistan.

Work with other nations to continue to stop the proliferation of nuclear devices.

Include working with the other nations to form a global anti-terrorist organization for all counties.

That is what I would have done. Korea and Iran were not players at the time. They were contained.

Now, they are not. And we cant do a damn thing about it.

[RedScare]

It is not as thin as you think. I found out today, that we only have about 30% of our total military in actual operation mode. Makes me feel a little better...

Does it? Did you forget to add in the troops who just returned, and the troops about to go to Iraq? Or, did you plan to just declare victory in Iraq, and move the physically and emotionally exhausted soldiers over to tropical North Korea from desert Iraq?

Oh, and by the way, do you think our equipment is all clean and shiny and ready to go? 3 and a half year expeditions into the desert have a funny way of f-ing up your gear...not to mention the literally thousands of IEDs ripping the innards out of troops and HUMVEEs alike.

But, none of that matters to us. We're the US of A! The world's greatest fighting machine! Our troops live for this! They don't need any rest, because they LOVE killing people! And our good guys in charge know what they are doing, too. So, we know that they've thought this out.

They wouldn't do something without thinking it through, would they?

Study: Army Stretched To Breaking Point