University of Houston Downtown Campus Developments

[kylejack]

I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with continuing to call it UHD.

[sevfiv]

Yeah, I think this was a bad decision. Houston Metropolitan University definitely promotes a "clear and distinct identity" for UHD - a little tooo distinct, imo.

[TexasVines]

I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with continuing to call it UHD.

because as the study suggested there was confusion about UHD and UH being seperate universities with vastly different enrollment requirements and vastly different long term goals and rightly or wrongly people in the position of hiring were getting them confused and people graduating from them were sometimes pretending to have been a student at one VS the school they actually went to

UH has a long term goal to increase research, recognition, admissions requirements, and student profiles......HMU has just stated they will continue their open enrollment policy for the present and at least the shorter term future

there is already muddling between the two and if they are to go on greater diverging paths in the future the time to clear up any confusion is now not in the future

and what exactly is "a little too distinct" about it....because now students and faculty can't play on any confusion to try and elevate the degree that they have.....so is TSU a little too distinct as well......maybe we should just change them all to say "some random university or college in the Houston area"

then students at Rice, UH, St. Thomas, HBU, HMU, TSU, Lamar, Sam Houston, Lone Star College, and HCC can just throw some random piece of paper in front of their employeer and hope for te best

Edited December 10, 2008 by TexasVines

[Highway6]

I don't think i had even heard of UHD until 03-04.. and I was under the impression that UHD, unlike UH Clear Lake, was more of a branch campus and not a separate school under the same University System.

I think renaming it is a mistake. IT would be a mistake for UH ClearLake to change their name to something with less ties to UH. It would be a mistake for Texas A&M Kingsville to distance themself from the A&M University System. Likewise for UT-Arlington.

These are small schools that get their recognition from their apparent and obvious link to their University System. Students don't just pick a school for the education, but for the value of having thats school's name on their resume. And while there's a difference between having the flagship of a University System on your resume vs a secondary institution in that System... having that name recognition is only a positive. I think UHD is cutting its head off here.

[LTAWACS]

because as the study suggested there was confusion about UHD and UH being seperate universities with vastly different enrollment requirements and vastly different long term goals and rightly or wrongly people in the position of hiring were getting them confused and people graduating from them were sometimes pretending to have been a student at one VS the school they actually went to

UH has a long term goal to increase research, recognition, admissions requirements, and student profiles......HMU has just stated they will continue their open enrollment policy for the present and at least the shorter term future

there is already muddling between the two and if they are to go on greater diverging paths in the future the time to clear up any confusion is now not in the future

and what exactly is "a little too distinct" about it....because now students and faculty can't play on any confusion to try and elevate the degree that they have.....so is TSU a little too distinct as well......maybe we should just change them all to say "some random university or college in the Houston area"

then students at Rice, UH, St. Thomas, HBU, HMU, TSU, Lamar, Sam Houston, Lone Star College, and HCC can just throw some random piece of paper in front of their employeer and hope for te best

So... what does your random piece of paper say?

[Fringe]

You know, I kind of feel the same way. I really haven't heard or seen anything "better" so I can live with the new name (if it gets final approval). Better than some convoluted directional name with an obscure geographical reference, like the University of SE Texas Gulfcoast (USETG).

It was called South Texas Junior College when I went there.

[RedScare]

So, what will UH alums blame their lack of school respect on now? Are they going to demand that the city of Houston change its name next?

[kylejack]

So, what will UH alums blame their lack of school respect on now?

Their football team.

[TexasVines]

So... what does your random piece of paper say?

Stephen F. Austin

but I have been a student at a number of other random schools in Texas as well

I don't think i had even heard of UHD until 03-04.. and I was under the impression that UHD, unlike UH Clear Lake, was more of a branch campus and not a separate school under the same University System.

I think renaming it is a mistake. IT would be a mistake for UH ClearLake to change their name to something with less ties to UH. It would be a mistake for Texas A&M Kingsville to distance themselves from the A&M University System. Likewise for UT-Arlington.

These are small schools that get their recognition from their apparent and obvious link to their University System. Students don't just pick a school for the education, but for the value of having thats school's name on their resume. And while there's a difference between having the flagship of a University System on your resume vs a secondary institution in that System... having that name recognition is only a positive. I think UHD is cutting its head off here.

this is exactly the issue that is being resolved with the name change.....soon if not already UH will no longer offer any remedial courses in any subject......a student will need to go to HCC or HMU to complete those before attempting to transfer....UH will also raise their admissions standards as well....it is not fair to the students at UH or to the employers of UH and HMU students for the students to not be able to differentiate themselves from one another....because at the end of the day they are two separate schools with vastly different goals and requirements

also at 23,000+ students and 4,500 living on campus UTA is far from a small school and the fact that it is in a city hundreds of miles apart from UT-Austin makes it easier for people to know they are different schools......TAMU-K was separate from the TAMU system until the late 80s or early 90s when they were merged to cut down on duplication at the higher levels of administration, but few if any would ever confuse them with TAMU College Station.....especially because of the distance....and TAMUK has benefited from being a part of the TAMU system especially in terms of Ag and Wildlife Research that TAMU College Stations location prevents from taking place and from the sharing of faculty with the Texas Ag Experiment Station and Texas Ag Extension (or what ever stupid name they call them now)....but there is no confusion between the two because of clear naming and distance between location

UH and UHD/HMU have the unique issue of being universities with vastly separate goals and requirements yet only being a very short distance apart....the only other schools in Texas that could come close to this are UTA and UTD and they have each established their names quite well and it is not an issue for them......but every school in the UT System has their own admissions requirements and degree requirements with UTD actually having the highest quality of freshmen admitted for a public university in Texas based on GPA, Class Rank, and SAT/ACT....so some could actually say being UTD has hurt them because many will still think UT-Austin has he highest ranking freshmen classes in Texas

So, what will UH alums blame their lack of school respect on now? Are they going to demand that the city of Houston change its name next?

actually the lack of respect for UH is probably greatest in Houston and UH has done very well with with Bauer, Hilton, and Cullen Colleges all having nationally ranked programs.....and they will blame any lack of respect on low funding VS UT and TAMU and especially VS other state schools in the USA and on low admissions requirements relative to the quality of education offered and on low graduation rates

the graduation rates will improve with higher quality student admissions and the funding issues are being worked on....but based on funding received UH is doing very well when compared to peers around the USA

Edited December 10, 2008 by TexasVines

[Highway6]

You make good points, Vines.... But i still think UHD benefits from the confusion/association in getting students there and UHD students benefit from that University System tie-in on their resumes.

I also think any University name change hurts that school's image. History, Longevity are two attributes that contribute to a school's gravitas, image, and perception by prospective students.

Maybe I'm wrong and others disagree.. but take Southwest Texas.. that's their name for 30+ years, then one day they change to a generic name Texas State... am i the only one that instantly thinks that was a bush league move to make.

I think where we differ in opinion is the perceived value of attending this University. You think it's ready to stand on its own, I do not.

I don't know much about UHD programs, standings, rankings. But I imagine thats true of most people looking at resumes too. I do think it helps to have a school on your resume that is take seriously by potential employers.

Having a tie-in to the 4th largest University System in the State helps. Having a new University name that has never existed before this point in time hurts.

[JLWM8609]

Eh... at least they didn't choose that "Hopes and Dreams" crap. So, will UH-Clear Lake and UH-Victoria be next in line for name changes as well?

Edited December 10, 2008 by JLWM8609

[Highway6]

also at 23,000+ students and 4,500 living on campus UTA is far from a small school and the fact that it is in a city hundreds of miles apart from UT-Austin makes it easier for people to know they are different schools......TAMU-K was separate from the TAMU system until the late 80s or early 90s when they were merged to cut down on duplication at the higher levels of administration, but few if any would ever confuse them with TAMU College Station.....especially because of the distance....and TAMUK has benefited from being a part of the TAMU system especially in terms of Ag and Wildlife Research that TAMU College Stations location prevents from taking place and from the sharing of faculty with the Texas Ag Experiment Station and Texas Ag Extension (or what ever stupid name they call them now)....but there is no confusion between the two because of clear naming and distance between location

I didnt mean small as in size or enrollment.. i meant smaller as in recognition and perception.

I also didnt mean to imply different schools in a system are confused with one another... i am saying there is value in being associated with a bigger System.

This doesnt apply for UHD and UH........ but UT-Arlington, Prarie View A&M... numerous others... for the last 20+ years, these schools have had access to the PUF of UT System and A&M System. These schools have more resources as members of the states 2 flagship systems. I think the name recognition and perceived value in a degree from UTA over Lamar or Sul Ros University is what it is because of the association to a bigger System with lots of resources.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Highway6

[sarahiki]

Confusion is bad. Just because the confusion has history doesn't make it good confusion.

When I first moved here several years ago, I signed up for an evening class at UH. I looked on my trusty Houston map to see where the campus was, spotted it immediately, and headed downtown. It took quite some time of wandering through the main building, looking for someone to ask, before I finally learned that I was at the wrong university.

And the thing is, I'm really not stupid. Having two schools called "UH" located a couple of miles from each other is just confusing.

[TexasVines]

actually Texas State was a very wise name change and I think it has paid off for them very well.....it is well known in study after study that "North Eastern Central State" just does not carry the clout that X State does or any other non bi-directional name....it has been looked at time after time by universities across the USA and the results are always the same.....so Texas State made a wise choice....there was also more to the name change of Texas State.....Texas State is the largest member of the oldest university system in Texas....the Texas State University System.....which is Texas State San Marcos, Lamar, Sam Houston, and Sul Ross.....Angelo State was until 2007 also a part of that system, but they left to become a part of the Texas Tech System......the Texas State System was what is called a "weak system" which means that each president of each school still went before the legislators to lobby for funding VS a "strong system" like UT, TAMU, TTU, or UH where the chancellor of the system goes before the legislators to lobby for funding on behalf of all the system schools.....the Texas State System is at this time trying to become a "strong system".....Texas State as the largest, fastest growing, and offering the most graduate degrees (about 20 masters and 3-4 PhDs) sees themselves as the potential "flagship" (oldest, most known, largest, and highest degree offering member of a system).....Angelo State specifically felt that they were being left out of the mix and were not growing as fast as all the schools east of or near I-35 (Lamar, SHSU, TSU-SM) and they did not want to pay the higher overhead of a strong system and they did not want to take a back seat to any potential future "flagship" especially when they rightly feel their academics are just as good as any of those other schools...Sul Ross at this time IMO is not sure where they want to be, but I see them joining the TTU system in the future....but from what I hear no system really wants them because they are too small right now to operate efficiently...so Texas State made a name change for two reasons...one very publicly talked about that I agree with to get away from the bi-directional name and the lack of respect that comes with it...and one that is not mentioned much that I do not agree with and that is to try and become a "flagship" of a system.......which in the purpose of this discussion (and to the state of Texas) is different than a "tier 1" university which is the goal of UH....I actually feel the Texas State system should be folded entirely with SHSU and Lamar going to the UH system and Sul Ross to TTU System and Texas State being offered a choice of what system they would like....probably TAMU

I don't think UHCL or UHV are in line for a name change at all.....the clarity of separate cities in the name and the distance apart aid in the distinction as separate schools

the majority of schools in the UT and TAMU systems do not have access to any of the PUF and those besides UT-Austin, TAMU College Station, and PVAMU that do have access to the PUF have only limited access for specific types of projects.....but they still do benefit from being a part of the system

http://www.tamuk.edu/sacs/documents/pdffiles/0434.pdf

and again I agree with Sarahiki.....the uniqueness of the close distance made the confusion of UH and UHD too easy for many and just because it may have helped a few does not mean the confusion was a good thing

[Highway6]

the majority of schools in the UT and TAMU systems do not have access to any of the PUF and those besides UT-Austin, TAMU College Station, and PVAMU that do have access to the PUF have only limited access for specific types of projects.....but they still do benefit from being a part of the system

and again I agree with Sarahiki.....the uniqueness of the close distance made the confusion of UH and UHD too easy for many and just because it may have helped a few does not mean the confusion was a good thing

16 of the 28 schools in the Texas System and A&M System benefit from PUF (well, according to Wiki... more according to your pdf).. though I don't know what those financial benefits entail.. so if you say they are greatly limited compared to the big 2, i'll take your word on it... that makes sense.

I think the 1 time confusion of setting foot on the wrong campus is insignificant compared to name recognition on a resume. I think just because the confusion hurt a few doesnt mean its not a good thing.

Anyways.. name change is done. Lets hope you're right and enrollment and perceived value go in the right direction.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Highway6

[TexasVines]

16 of the 28 schools in the Texas System and A&M System benefit from PUF (well, according to Wiki... more according to your pdf).. though I don't know what those financial benefits entail.. so if you say they are greatly limited compared to the big 2, i'll take your word on it... that makes sense.

I think the 1 time confusion of setting foot on the wrong campus is insignificant compared to name recognition on a resume. I think just because the confusion hurt a few doesnt mean its not a good thing.

Anyways.. name change is done. Lets hope you're right and enrollment and perceived value go in the right direction.

I do not want or desire for graduates to be able to inflate the value of a degree based on the false preception that a degree form UHD/HMU has the same rigors and requirements of a degree from UH...and I am quite sure employers would not want to be fooled like that as well

[N Judah]

Not everybody goes to school for the "name."

If employers don't understand U of H v. UH-D then that's their problem. They can just find someone (anyone) from either school to explain it.

"Houston Metropolitan University" makes it seem somehow...inaccessible. I liked "City College" better.

Edited December 11, 2008 by N Judah

[TheNiche]

Not everybody goes to school for the "name."

Perhaps not. But most are at least cognizant of the powerful effect of the name on hiring as well as social status.

If employers don't understand U of H v. UH-D then that's their problem. They can just find someone (anyone) from either school to explain it.

If they're confusing the two schools, then they probably do not realize that asking for clarification is necessary.

And it is my problem because I don't want a prospective employer to associate me with the riff raff from a lesser school.

"Houston Metropolitan University" makes it seem somehow...inaccessible. I liked "City College" better.

No, then there may be confusion between it and Houston Community College. HMU gives the impression that the place is somewhere in between a community college and a reputable Tier One institution.

[N Judah]

Actually my idea was "U of H - City College." There are many schools called "City College" and nobody seems to get them confused with community colleges.

HMU gives the impression that the place is somewhere in between a community college and a reputable Tier One institution.

That's right about where U of H is too. Neither school has a "name" factor that warrants worrying about other schools tarnishing its rep.

Anyway I am just glad they're keeping open enrollment.

Edited December 11, 2008 by N Judah

[TexasVines]

Actually my idea was "U of H - City College" (not that it makes any difference now). There are lots of schools called "City College" and nobody seems to get them confused with community colleges.

That's right about where U of H is too. Neither school has a "name" factor that warrants worrying about other schools tarnishing its rep.

Anyway I like the name choice isn't bad. I am just glad they're keeping open enrollment.

the UH Hilton College of Hotel Restaurant Management is one fo the top programs in the world

the UH Bauer College of Business receives high rankings year in and year out

UH Law is ranked highly in 3 separate areas of law

The Cullen College of Engineering has a top Chemical engineering program as well as super conducting research where it has one of the top researchers in thw rorld

hardly no "name factor"

[FordGuyHTX]

the UH Hilton College of Hotel Restaurant Management is one fo the top programs in the world

the UH Bauer College of Business receives high rankings year in and year out

UH Law is ranked highly in 3 separate areas of law

The Cullen College of Engineering has a top Chemical engineering program as well as super conducting research where it has one of the top researchers in thw rorld

hardly no "name factor"

The University of Houston Law Center is a Tier I law school ranked #55 in the nation, which tied with Baylor University's law school in 2008.

The Bauer College of Business at UH ranked #40 in the nation for public undergraduate business schools in 2008.

Edited December 11, 2008 by FordGuyHTX

[N Judah]

I'm talking about undergrad, where supposed "name confusion" might occur. UH-D doesn't even have grad/professional schools.

[TexasVines]

I'm talking about undergrad, where supposed "name confusion" might occur. UH-D doesn't even have grad/professional schools.

Hilton, Bauer and some engineering programs are ranked at the undergrad level

and UHd offers masters in a few programs

[TheNiche]

Actually my idea was "U of H - City College." There are many schools called "City College" and nobody seems to get them confused with community colleges.

You overestimate the worldliness of a college freshman at an open enrollment school.

That's right about where U of H is too. Neither school has a "name" factor that warrants worrying about other schools tarnishing its rep.

Anyway I am just glad they're keeping open enrollment.

And UH won't have a name worthy of distinguishment until it starts tightening admissions standards and distancing itself from lower-echelon institutions. Open enrollment at UH has a bleak future, btw.

[Trae]

This reminds me of the Texas State system. Each university having a different name (Texas State, Stephen F. Austin, etc.).

[TexasVines]

You overestimate the worldliness of a college freshman at an open enrollment school.

And UH won't have a name worthy of distinguishment until it starts tightening admissions standards and distancing itself from lower-echelon institutions. Open enrollment at UH has a bleak future, btw.

the UH main campus does not have open enrollment....TSU has also ended their open enrollment this year......UHD/HMU has open enrollment and has stated a comittment to keep it for now....and I agree UH will not stand out further until they increase admissions requirements and graduation rates....which should go hand in hand

This reminds me of the Texas State system. Each university having a different name (Texas State, Stephen F. Austin, etc.).

Stephen F. Austin is not a part of the Texas State System they are a freestanding university with their own board of regents.....along with TSU, Midwestern State, and TWU since TWU stopped calling themselves a system and took their Dallas and Houston campuses back under the main campus in Denton

Lamar (and their branches), Sam Houston, Sul Ross (and their Rio Grande Colleges), and Texas State San Marcos are the only members of the current Texas State System

[Trae]

Oh okay. I got mixed up between Sam Houston and Stephen F. Austin. And does the University of Houston really have open enrollment?

[sarahiki]

the UH main campus does not have open enrollment....TSU has also ended their open enrollment this year......UHD/HMU has open enrollment and has stated a comittment to keep it for now....and I agree UH will not stand out further until they increase admissions requirements and graduation rates....which should go hand in hand

Stephen F. Austin is not a part of the Texas State System they are a freestanding university with their own board of regents.....along with TSU, Midwestern State, and TWU since TWU stopped calling themselves a system and took their Dallas and Houston campuses back under the main campus in Denton

Lamar (and their branches), Sam Houston, Sul Ross (and their Rio Grande Colleges), and Texas State San Marcos are the only members of the current Texas State System

I'm not sure I agree. UH reminds me of the French universities (as far as I understand them): anyone can get in. But it's really tough to make it, once you're there. I like the idea of giving lots of students the chance to succeed, especially in a city like Houston with so many immigrants and children of immigrants. But once you get in, you have to be a fairly serious student to make it. So there's a high attrition rate. I don't know what all that does for the reputation of the school, but it should mean that someone with a degree from UH worked pretty hard to earn it, and therefore the degree means something.

[Trae]

I'm still trying to get this straight, UH has open enrollment? So, if I don't get this acceptance letter in the coming weeks, I can walk up a couple of months before school starts and enroll?

[sarahiki]

I'm still trying to get this straight, UH has open enrollment? So, if I don't get this acceptance letter in the coming weeks, I can walk up a couple of months before school starts and enroll?

No, UH doesn't have open enrollment. UHD does. It's confusing, isn't it?

If my previous post confused you, sorry. I didn't mean "everyone" gets in; I meant they let a lot of students in, but not too many make it through.