East River - KBR Site Puchased by Midway

[Mr.Clean19 407]

Nuclear, thats Frank Liu's MDI lot. Some 500 homes.

[H-Town Man 4192]

3 hours ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

For those new to the area, i've attached my version of development in the area. Should be interesting to see what happens the next few years.

East Bayou District Development Map.pdf

 

Cool map. Thought there was a bit more going on on the south side with townhomes, no?

 

[Mr.Clean19 407]

I probably didnt capture everything south of the site. This was ment to capture large open tracks along the bayou in that area... Again... it is a rough copy.

[Triton 10872]

 

*

Edited July 6, 2016 by Triton

[Mr.Clean19 407]

Can i quote you on that Triton?

[Sanjorade 242]

Mayor Turner wants a theme park for the city .... this could make for an interesting site.

[Montrose1100 3186]

4 minutes ago, Sanjorade said:

Mayor Turner wants a theme park for the city .... this could make for an interesting site.

Anddddd I'm scouting the west side.

[bobruss 4875]

If you go to Buffalo Bayou conservancy website and look at the master plan it is all played out and very easy to follow. It shows all their plans for the east side. Pretty impressive renderings.

[arisegundo 86]

14 years. 

[tigereye 1729]

7 hours ago, Sanjorade said:

Mayor Turner wants a theme park for the city .... this could make for an interesting site.

 

This is what I was thinking when I first read the article today. Coincidental timing of this announcement? 

 

This site is 136 acres, AstroWorld was only 57 acres IIRC. Could work and tie with BBP bayou trail efforts. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by tigereye

[arisegundo 86]

The Urban Edge weighs in, including another plan for the area by the Greater East End folks.

[EllenOlenska 1064]

I can't wait til I start seeing renderings and am able to differentiate all these massive concrete seas surrounding downtown from each other.

Edited July 7, 2016 by EllenOlenska

[Mr.Clean19 407]

Booo amusement park.... BOOooooo. The UT Campus would have been a great idea. Or a Green Energy Corridor. Heck, you could even make a dock right there on the bayou to barge products out. The Cathexsis owners were using the site to ship Reactors to jobsites.

[Montrose1100 3186]

I hope they incorporate the current office tower. Although I wouldn't complain if it washed out in contemporary design.

[intencity77 253]

33 minutes ago, Montrose1100 said:

I hope they incorporate the current office tower. Although I wouldn't complain if it washed out in contemporary design.

 

Yeah I had the same thought as well. If it's still structurally sound, I could see them renovating and possibly recladding the exterior especially since Midway typically likes to include office space in their projects. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by intencity77

[tigereye 1729]

I'm gonna guess Northbank Buffalo Bayou is the Post Office site and the East End site is something else.

 

http://swamplot.com/midway-our-giant-fifth-ward-site-wont-be-called-northbank-buffalo-bayou-but-something-else-might/2016-07-07/

[Montrose1100 3186]

What kind of tax income would the city get on a theme park versus a mixed use site? Which would raise the property values more? Serious question.

[samagon 2779]

18 hours ago, tigereye said:

 

This is what I was thinking when I first read the article today. Coincidental timing of this announcement? 

 

This site is 136 acres, AstroWorld was only 57 acres IIRC. Could work and tie with BBP bayou trail efforts. 

 

keep in mind the 57 acres was all park area, parking wasn't included. to have a decent sized park you'd have to build a parking structure on this much land.

 

If an amusement park, if it were me, I'd give 4 billion to Disney to build a theme park there. Imagine the taxes we'd make on 365 days of car rental tax and hotel guest tax. Not to mention restaurants, etc. I mean, we dumped ~500 million into a football stadium that gets used maybe 45 days a year. Let's spend 8x the money on something that will be used 8x as often. keep in mind, shanghai disney just cost 3.7 billion to build, so it's not like we'd be giving them free money, we'd be giving them the same deal we did with the users of the football stadium.

 

As awesome as an amusement park would be (and good proximity to two airports, and the scenic ship channel), I just don't see that happening. (even without the county giving whoever the same deal they'd give a football owner).

 

The best solution would be to offer all of NRG (parking lots, everything), including the old Astroworld site to Disney along with 4 billion, the only stipulation being that they have to incorporate the astrodome into whatever they build. give the rodeo the KBR site. so many problems solved!

Edited July 7, 2016 by samagon

[Houston19514 3679]

18 hours ago, tigereye said:

 

This is what I was thinking when I first read the article today. Coincidental timing of this announcement? 

 

This site is 136 acres, AstroWorld was only 57 acres IIRC. Could work and tie with BBP bayou trail efforts. 

 

Astroworld was 104 acres, and as Samagon pointed out above, that was all amusement park; that 104 acres included no parking.

 

[Houston19514 3679]

49 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

If an amusement park, if it were me, I'd give 4 billion to Disney to build a theme park there. Imagine the taxes we'd make on 365 days of car rental tax and hotel guest tax. Not to mention restaurants, etc. I mean, we dumped ~500 million into a football stadium that gets used maybe 45 days a year. Let's spend 8x the money on something that will be used 8x as often. keep in mind, shanghai disney just cost 3.7 billion to build, so it's not like we'd be giving them free money, we'd be giving them the same deal we did with the users of the football stadium.

 

As awesome as an amusement park would be (and good proximity to two airports, and the scenic ship channel), I just don't see that happening. (even without the county giving whoever the same deal they'd give a football owner).

 

The best solution would be to offer all of NRG (parking lots, everything), including the old Astroworld site to Disney along with 4 billion, the only stipulation being that they have to incorporate the astrodome into whatever they build. give the rodeo the KBR site. so many problems solved!

 

There is so much wrong with this post... but let's just start here:  Taxpayer portion of NRG Stadium was in the neighborhood of $287 Million, not even close to $500 Million.  (The stadium did not even cost $500 Million).

[H-Town Man 4192]

 

 

1 hour ago, Montrose1100 said:

What kind of tax income would the city get on a theme park versus a mixed use site? Which would raise the property values more? Serious question.

 

Densely developed mixed use generates far more revenue than a theme park. Theme parks generally go for the cheapest land they can find that has good transportation access. Think of Splashtown buying land up in Spring off I-45 in the late 80's, when there was virtually nothing between The Woodlands and 1960.

 

This will not be a theme park. A more plausible idea is that it could be a theme/festival center similar to Faneuil Hall or Navy Pier. But I think it is too far from downtown. Something like that would have to be walking distance. I don't see tourism for this site, with so much more viable land along the bayou downtown and with the possible North Canal.

 

I see this as high quality neighborhood mixed use, not as retail-driven as Regent Square, more quiet with classy residences and modest office space that blend with the bayou park and have a strong nature and eco theme. Maybe instead of GreenStreet, GreenPark. Great place for a romantic date, away from the downtown noise. The new engagement spot after Vargo's.

 

[Montrose1100 3186]

16 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

 

Densely developed mixed use generates far more revenue than a theme park. Theme parks generally go for the cheapest land they can find that has good transportation access. Think of Splashtown buying land up in Spring off I-45 in the late 80's, when there was virtually nothing between The Woodlands and 1960.

 

This will not be a theme park. A more plausible idea is that it could be a theme/festival center similar to Faneuil Hall or Navy Pier. But I think it is too far from downtown. Something like that would have to be walking distance. I don't see tourism for this site, with so much more viable land along the bayou downtown and with the possible North Canal.

 

I see this as high quality neighborhood mixed use, not as retail-driven as Regent Square, more quiet with classy residences and modest office space that blend with the bayou park and have a strong nature and eco theme. Maybe instead of GreenStreet, GreenPark. Great place for a romantic date, away from the downtown noise. The new engagement spot after Vargo's.

 

The views 4 floors and up would be spectacular.

 

I really hope this lot doesn't become a theme park. What a waste of money for the bayou park to be spruced up only to have a barbed wire fence running alongside. 

[Sparrow 308]

How about creating a marina district? I don't own a yacht, but if I did, it sure would be great to have it parked out back while still living in the heart of the city. 

[cloud713 3804]

I didn't think you could drive personal watercraft through certain parts of the ship channel? If so, it would be an inland marina isolated from open waters.

It would be nice for Midway to work with BBP to get some sort of water taxi/bayou boat service between KBR and Allens Landing though..

[bobruss 4875]

I don't know if they had to get special permission but during the Super Bowl  several fairly large outboards came up from the bay and docked at Allen's Landing. They said they had to work with the tides but mentioned no special permitting. The boaters said they came up to have drinks in Market Square.

[Houston? 125]

So, Midway isn't going to do anything with this, since y'all talking about an amusement park?

[BigFootsSocks 3076]

11 minutes ago, Houston? said:

So, Midway isn't going to do anything with this, since y'all talking about an amusement park?

No, the amusement park is all speculation. The only facts here are;

 

1) Midway bought this land

2) It's not called Northbank

[The Pragmatist 385]

Heh. Maybe they should just use the Hermann Park golf course for an amusement park. It's about 125 acres in a centralized location with great access to transit.  Slightly more on topic, the good news for redevelopment of this lot is that Clinton Drive may be repaved to where it doesn't feel like a 4x4 Wrangler is a necessity.

Edited July 12, 2016 by The Pragmatist

[samagon 2779]

9 hours ago, The Pragmatist said:

Heh. Maybe they should just use the Hermann Park golf course for an amusement park. It's about 125 acres in a centralized location with great access to transit.  Slightly more on topic, the good news for redevelopment of this lot is that Clinton Drive may be repaved to where it doesn't feel like a 4x4 Wrangler is a necessity.

ha, and they don't even need to put in parking, cause there's so much around Hermann park! 

[HoustonIsHome 1468]

Would you really need a tremendous number of parking spots with a location like Hermann? A drivers paradise like KBR would definitely need tons of lots, but Hermann does seem to manage lots of visitors by having more options via both cars and Public Transit.

[Triton 10872]

The plan is to build an underground parking garage at Hermann Park either way. 

[lockmat 2169]

1 hour ago, Triton said:

The plan is to build an underground parking garage at Hermann Park either way. 

 

About time. Is there anything publicly available with any details on that?

[Triton 10872]

8 minutes ago, lockmat said:

 

About time. Is there anything publicly available with any details on that?

 

1,200 car underground parking garage. Master plan posted by Mab back in February.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Triton

[samagon 2779]

page not found

 

are they going to be turning all the surface parking into park with trees and grass and stuff? that will be awesome!

[BeerNut 1990]

56 minutes ago, samagon said:

page not found

 

are they going to be turning all the surface parking into park with trees and grass and stuff? that will be awesome!

http://houstonfirst.com/static/media/uploads/attachments/mot_master_plan_6.22.15_reduced.pdf

[rechlin 2857]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

page not found

 

are they going to be turning all the surface parking into park with trees and grass and stuff? that will be awesome!

No, it looks like they might be adding even more surface parking, but also, the long term goal (2035) is to build an underground parking garage with trees and grass and stuff on top of it to provide more parking.

[Triton 10872]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

page not found

 

are they going to be turning all the surface parking into park with trees and grass and stuff? that will be awesome!

Yea I posted that in the master plan thread.. was hoping Mab would respond but it looks like Beernut has us.

[Urbannizer 41884]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/Midway-making-plans-for-transformative-project-9302558.php

 

One of the city's most prominent developers on Wednesday will give investors a look at early plans for the former KBR site, a 147-acre tract with water and skyscraper views that could be transformative for the traditionally working-class East End.

 

Midway executives, who gave the Chronicle an exclusive look at early concepts for the residential and commercial project, are presenting their proposal at the company's annual investor conference in a ballroom of a hotel on the grounds of CityCentre.

The proposed development, to be called East River, could take 10 to 15 years to complete. It will be a joint venture between Midway and William Harrison of Cathexis. Harrison, a wealthy Houstonian with business in energy and real estate, bought the property in late 2012 from KBR, which used it as an office and industrial complex for decades.

[swtsig 2804]

they're saying the right things with regards to how it should be developed - historical focus, multi-staged development, mixed income, focus on the bayou. i'd love to finally see something truly innovative for houston on this site. we don't need any highrises here, or at least no more than one or two, and if they do choose that route they better not be beige stucco boxes - they need character. drawing inspiration from dumbo and the meatpacking district is promising.

 

also didn't know harrison stayed on board but that makes sense... he would've lost money on an outright sale and his plan was always long term.

 

here's hoping for the best. midway was a real opportunity to develop a transformative project here.

[BTT 2]

What part of economic downturn does no one understand?  The developer is actually quoted comparing the site to New York City. 

[H-Town Man 4192]

28 minutes ago, BTT said:

What part of economic downturn does no one understand?  The developer is actually quoted comparing the site to New York City. 

 

10-15 years. River Oaks District was in planning since around 2003.

 

[swtsig 2804]

31 minutes ago, BTT said:

What part of economic downturn does no one understand?  The developer is actually quoted comparing the site to New York City. 

 

what part of long term, multi-phase development do you not understand? or preliminary stage? or anything else in that entire article?

 

move along.

[Triton 10872]

31 minutes ago, BTT said:

What part of economic downturn does no one understand?  The developer is actually quoted comparing the site to New York City. 

That's a short term issue. Larger projects such as these usually require long term planning and take many years to unfold. Not too concerned. Besides, unless there's a global recession, chances are 2018 might be the year Houston truly rebounds.

[BTT 2]

11 minutes ago, swtsig said:

 

what part of long term, multi-phase development do you not understand? or preliminary stage? or anything else in that entire article?

 

move along.

What part of the costs to carry real estate do you not understand?  Which part of historical amounts of office and multifamily vacancy and supply do you not get?    I would guess your too daft to even understand how much of a failure (economically) City Center was when first developed.  I would also guess you've never left Texas, nor do you understand the impact of land use regulation on the economics of commercial property in this city.  If you believe in this development so much, get out there, start raising money and buy yourself some nice property in the area to benefit from all the value this $3-4 billion project will create.  Or, don't and continue to blog away internet tough guy 

[jmosele 252]

I personally wouldn't question swtsigs knowledge in these matters...

[CREguy13 1353]

@BTT what do you propose this site should be used for?  Stating City Center was a failure early on carries little weight when it is repeatedly used as an example of mega successful mixed-use projects.  Several people on this forum are in the industry, so be careful not to lose credibility early on.  There is nothing controversial about this article.

[H-Town Man 4192]

The sigophants are out...

 

[Triton 10872]

This guy sounds like a troll.

[BigFootsSocks 3076]

I like this new idea of swt not knowing what he's talking about. Let's explore it further; is swtsig really his name?

 

Discuss.

[tangledwoods 377]

this property like many others around the downtown freeways (59 and Pierce Elevated) are all in a holding pattern waiting on txDOT to move forward on its downtown freeway circulation plan.  This site is less affected than sites like the post office, but it will still play a major impact on the traffic studies and feasibility for different use cases.

 

Like the article said, this is a fantastic property and we will see development happen.  When that development comes to fruition is contingent on so many external factors that even the developers involved would be stupid to throw out delivery dates.  Now all we need is for someone to sneak into Gensler's or HOK's office and find one of their site massing models for the site.  You know an intern spent their summer on one......