Montrose HEB At 1701 W. Alabama St.

[Highway6]

I'd hazard a guess from your handle that you aren't a local. I on the other hand very much am and remember Alabama when it was a neighborhood street. West Alabama is now effectively a traffic sink - have you seen the no left hand turn signals that appear for six hours a day, or the no right turn on red from the neighbourhood streets? Those measures are designed to keep traffic moving (Bill White's mantra), to stop people from turning on to streets in their OWN neighborhood, and to stgop those who would have the temerity to turn on to Alabama and force traffic to slow down - damn them to hell!!

And you can say HEB doesn't owe the neighbourhood anything all you want but if they don't respect my neighbourhood they won't get my business.

Your guess would be wrong; we are neighbors. I shop Fiesta weekly and drive W Alabama daily.

While i dislike the middle lane situation, the increase in speed is negligible. W Alabama is still slower than Richmond, slower than W gray, slower than some parts of Westheimer... if you're going to make any of these streets a more pedestrian friendly E-W corridor, Alabama is as good a candidate as the rest. If HEB is willing to be a good neighbor and help to do that.. that is a good thing in my books.

Ultimately.. if the HEB and the neighbors want a pedestrian friendly lot, than the lot needs to be accessible to pedestrians coming to and going from the lot.

Putting their arse end to Alabama would be the worst thing they could do.

All of this is a moot point... like i said two posts ago, I'm sure they meant they only intend delivery access from Alabama...

There is no way they put their back end... 300' of emergency exits, docks, lower quality materials, transformers, compactors, etc stretching the length of the property along Alabama.

[TheNiche]

...there are plenty of us fogies...

I never meant to imply that everyone from one category goes one way and everyone from another category goes a different way.

[Porchman]

The market that they're trying to reach is fairly transient, so the neighborhood could be thought of as having a short memory where these things are concerned. (The more permanent folks tend to be a bit older, relatively affluent, and gravitate to a more up-market experience, like Whole Foods.) In the end, HEB will crush Fiesta in terms of product, price, placement, and promotion...so it probably wouldn't really matter that a few of the hardcore old fogies that don't shop at Whole Foods hold a grudge...certainly not enough that they are justified in making multi-million-dollar architectural accommodations.

If HEB is being sensitive to the neighborhood, I wouldn't be looking a gift horse in the mouth. Make realistic suggestions--politely--and express gratitude for their consideration for something that they could've gotten away with foregoing.

As for the Heights, the demographic is older, more affluent, and mor permanent. It'd be a good idea not to overtly piss them off. But (for reasons not clear to me) they don't have the same level of clout where grassroots NIMBYism is concerned. Maybe its that beggars can't be choos

Montrose is transient? Don't tell that to Councilwoman Lovell or, for that matter, Mayor Parker. They'll kick your butt.

Not sure HEB can "crush" Fiesta. They actually don't have the price point, and they're product is not par. HEB is going to go the pantry-hybrid store with fluffy cheese and wine. There are still people living in Montrose for whom that might not be important: you know, the lactose intolerant, the recovering alcoholic, oh, and the non-what-White-people-like.

Wait! The Heights is more affluent?! When did this happen? Can we stand on our hill (nub), hold our noses and say "nahhhh?" (We've been feeling this for some time, you know).

True NIMBYism takes government. Two District Council members, most of the Council-at-large, and the Mayor all live in Montrose.

I second that. Maybe they could hire the sculptor that's been carving think interesting things out of Galveston's dead oaks to do something with the trunks, and then incorporate them into the entrance design. It wouldn't be very contemporary, aesthetically, but it'd sure make the store a landmark and, I think, make Montrose (as) happy (as it's ever going to be).

Just a thought...

Very Vulcan! I'm still thinking keeping the existing trees around the perimeter and putting in a highway-sized wall on the West side may be the best mediation.

[kdog08]

Fiesta has much to offer that the other stores do not:

- produce prices are much less than either Kroger or HEB (and certainly less than Whole Foods)

- the deli case carries (or did until recently) a greater variety at lower prices

- the fresh bakery section, though smaller, is much cheaper than all of the others and better quality than Kroger (my opinion)

- the layout of the store makes it much much easier to shop there often when you just need a few things - try running in and out of the Buffalo HEB quickly when you run out of dogfood

- a decent beer and wine selection (all have that, but add convenience at Fiesta)

- friendlier staff than Kroger on West Gray (they have gotten better since HEB opened, though, but they had been downright rude)

- I can walk there, and many others do also (I have yet to see anyone walk to Buffalo HEB)

If the Montrose HEB can stay compact enough to keep the walkers and allow quick stops for a few items, than I would be happy with it. Once the stores get too big (Buffalo HEB, or West Gray Kroger) it becomes much less convenient. I shop HEB for a few items, but Fiesta gets the majority of my business.

Regarding affluence in the vicinity of Montrose HEB, Boulevard Oaks and Southampton are just a few blocks away. And, Montrose itself is not known as a bargain, by any means. But, there are plenty of us fogies who would rather shop somewhere besides the overpriced and overhyped Whole Foods, soon to add their 2nd store in the neighborhood.

That Fiesta is crap. I will give you the edge in better prices but HEB is highly competitive and adaptable. Every Fiesta in Houston is essentially the same and outdated, while HEB seems to study its demographics closely and plans appropriately. I welcome a new HEB and the competition it will bring. Hopefully Fiesta will either upgrade or fall, same with Krogers. I can certainly see either Kroger's or Fiesta falling to HEB (more likely Fiesta).

[TheNiche]

That Fiesta is crap. I will give you the edge in better prices but HEB is highly competitive and adaptable. Every Fiesta in Houston is essentially the same and outdated, while HEB seems to study its demographics closely and plans appropriately. I welcome a new HEB and the competition it will bring. Hopefully Fiesta will either upgrade or fall, same with Krogers. I can certainly see either Kroger's or Fiesta falling to HEB (more likely Fiesta).

Bingo. HEB abandoned the one-size-fits-all paradigm years ago. And at the end of the day, it's because they understand market segmentation. They can carve a niche for themselves...anywhere.

Be it affluent predominantly-white suburban (League City), mixed-income slightly-older predominantly Hispanic (Gulfgate), low-income younger heavily Hispanic (Mi Tienda), poor Black (Scott & OST), top-of-the-market regional draw (Central Market), affluent predominantly-white urban locals (Buffalo Market), or mixed low-income budget-conscious (Joe V's)...HEB levers a crazy amount of market research to their advantage and is extraordinarily protective of market share. And they've been successful. HEB has managed to maintain and even grow market share slightly as Wal-Mart entered the grocery business in the Houston market and proceeded to whoop Kroger's, Safeway's, and Fiesta's respective asses.

[TheNiche]

Montrose is transient? Don't tell that to Councilwoman Lovell or, for that matter, Mayor Parker. They'll kick your butt.

Not sure HEB can "crush" Fiesta. They actually don't have the price point, and they're product is not par. HEB is going to go the pantry-hybrid store with fluffy cheese and wine. There are still people living in Montrose for whom that might not be important: you know, the lactose intolerant, the recovering alcoholic, oh, and the non-what-White-people-like.

Wait! The Heights is more affluent?! When did this happen? Can we stand on our hill (nub), hold our noses and say "nahhhh?" (We've been feeling this for some time, you know).

True NIMBYism takes government. Two District Council members, most of the Council-at-large, and the Mayor all live in Montrose.

I'll try again.

Montrose has a strategic imperative that is lacking in the Heights because it has more for-rent and multifamily dwellings and is closer to multiple universities...with that comes a more youthful and transient population...and it is a population whose future potential buying power is very attractive for an industry with such notoriously razor-thin margins. By developing brand loyalty with them early on, HEB benefits in the future.

Compare that with the young adults in the Heights. They're brown-colored...and a lot of them already have kids, are struggling economically, and really aren't going to be the company's bread-and-butter...except perhaps by way of volume...and even then, only for so long as they aren't displaced into a neighborhood best-served by a Joe V's. HEB isn't going to go out of their way to try to develop brand loyalty among transient young folks there. They're going to target the increasing number of home-owning Gen Xers and Boomers with a fairly high net worth, high incomes, and intentions on staying in the Heights for a fairly long time. The neighborhood has a memory (and will, at least until dementia starts to set in) and should be pandered to obsessively...even if their current grocery options are less-than-ideal and just about anything new and geared to them would be acceptable.

[kylejack]

Of all the grocery chains in our area, I trust HEB the most to make a store that fits in well with the community.

[IronTiger]

On either Westheimer or Kirby, I saw a small gray H-E-B. Cool in a way, as those H-E-Bs are becoming an endangered species in many aspects. So at first, I thought this thread was talking about that HEB.

[plumber2]

Of all the grocery chains in our area, I trust HEB the most to make a store that fits in well with the community.

Trust HEB? I wouldn't. They lied to us for years in Galveston, saying that they were going to redevelop their 61st Street property and build a large format HEB on the site. We were encouraged to stay in their shopping center and signed two 5 year leases with them, the second one right before Hurricane Ike. After the storm and their lie that they sustained 2 feet of water damage, they abandoned their store and all plans for redevelopment. They sold the property to the Mosberger family to locate a charter school at. The charter school has been a very good landlord, BTW.

Moral of the story, don't trust HEB. They will do whatever they want to do.

[kylejack]

Hey, if I were on an island decimated by a hurricane and everyone had left, I might not be so prone to redevelop a property either, but at any rate, that doesn't mean that any of the other grocery chains would be better at developing a grocery store that suits the neighborhood. I didn't say I trust HEB outright, I said I trust them more than any other grocery chain in the area to build a store that suits the neighborhood, most of which make little to no concession to suit the customer base.

[AtticaFlinch]

Hey, if I were on an island decimated by a hurricane and everyone had left, I might not be so prone to redevelop a property either, but at any rate, that doesn't mean that any of the other grocery chains would be better at developing a grocery store that suits the neighborhood. I didn't say I trust HEB outright, I said I trust them more than any other grocery chain in the area to build a store that suits the neighborhood, most of which make little to no concession to suit the customer base.

I trust Scott McLellan absolutely.

Not the Bush II press secretary Scott McLellan, I'm talking about the HEB guy. He's on TV all the time telling me how I can save money shopping at HEB, so he's got to be trustworthy.

[sonic0boom]

I trust Scott McLellan absolutely.

Not the Bush II press secretary Scott McLellan, I'm talking about the HEB guy. He's on TV all the time telling me how I can save money shopping at HEB, so he's got to be trustworthy.

All i can think of whenever I see him in those commercials is that he should be making enough money to afford a better cut suit. Not the intent of the commercials, I'm sure, but I shop at Kroger, anyway.

[houstonartstudent]

Chron reports that HEB is thinking of building the store on stilts...will definitely be interesting to see a site plan/renderings!

Chron Article

[Fringe]

I like the idea. Lot's of great trees on the property. This way they might save some of them. . 

[lockmat]

I wonder how high it would be? And how do you get your grocery cart down...everyone is gonna have to take an elevator?

[20thStDad]

I wonder how high it would be? And how do you get your grocery cart down...everyone is gonna have to take an elevator?

Based on a few high school experiences, parking garage ramps with speed bumps and shopping carts make an awesome combination. Bring a helmet.

[AtticaFlinch]

I wonder how high it would be? And how do you get your grocery cart down...everyone is gonna have to take an elevator?

I have it on good authority that all entrances will be accessible only by ladders to ensure this HEB is the safest place to hide in the event of a zombie outbreak.

Goods will be delivered to the ground level via a complex system of levers, pulleys and buckets. Shopping carts won't be available for this store as Scott McLellan reads HAIF and knows we hate errant carts in the neighborhood. All goods will be carried around the store on the backs of imported third world children.

[kylejack]

HEB Mi Tienda

HEB Buffalo Market

HEB Treehouse

[lockmat]

I have it on good authority that all entrances will be accessible only by ladders to ensure this HEB is the safest place to hide in the event of a zombie outbreak.

Goods will be delivered to the ground level via a complex system of levers, pulleys and buckets. Shopping carts won't be available for this store as Scott McLellan reads HAIF and knows we hate errant carts in the neighborhood. All goods will be carried around the store on the backs of imported third world children.

lol, {insert dancing banana}

[UrbaNerd]

I have it on good authority that all entrances will be accessible only by ladders to ensure this HEB is the safest place to hide in the event of a zombie outbreak.

Goods will be delivered to the ground level via a complex system of levers, pulleys and buckets. Shopping carts won't be available for this store as Scott McLellan reads HAIF and knows we hate errant carts in the neighborhood. All goods will be carried around the store on the backs of imported third world children.

Furthermore, express home deliveries will be conducted utilizing a series of trebuchets/catapults. Accuracy between 40-60 percent...if it does not fall within 100 metres of your property, it's 10% off!

[Fringe]

I have it on good authority that all entrances will be accessible only by ladders to ensure this HEB is the safest place to hide in the event of a zombie outbreak.

It's Montrose. How do you tell the difference between the zombies and residents? 

[ricco67]

It's Montrose. How do you tell the difference between the zombies and residents?

The Montrose natives are more FIERCE!

[OkieEric]

I wonder why "stilts" and not like the Randall's in midtown? Cheaper? My only concern is that a grocery store "up in the air" sounds like it would really stick out, lol

If they can do this park that would be awesome...hopefully this development can help spur investment to clean up some of the immediately adjacent properties. Who knows, maybe the Foteh family will finally start to sell off some stuff

[TheNiche]

I wonder why "stilts" and not like the Randall's in midtown? Cheaper?

Yes, most definitely.

[lockmat]

What's the Randalls in midtown like, underground parking?

[kylejack]

What's the Randalls in midtown like, underground parking?

Yes. Elevator to the underground garage.

[lockmat]

Yes. Elevator to the underground garage.

It seems like this HEB would have more customers, having more justification for an underground garage, but I guess since they have more land, it nullifies the justification that Randalls had.

[TheNiche]

It seems like this HEB would have more customers, having more justification for an underground garage, but I guess since they have more land, it nullifies the justification that Randalls had.

It's almost always cheaper to build up than down. I'm not clear that Randalls ever had the cost justification.

[musicman]

I wonder why "stilts" and not like the Randall's in midtown? Cheaper? My only concern is that a grocery store "up in the air" sounds like it would really stick out, lol

If they can do this park that would be awesome...hopefully this development can help spur investment to clean up some of the immediately adjacent properties. Who knows, maybe the Foteh family will finally start to sell off some stuff

there would never be sunlite at the park. astroturf would rule. that may be easier since most of the dogs owners in the hood leave the turds on the ground anyway due to no sense. ghetto it is but that seems to be the norm.

[sidegate]

now we'll now how the streetfolk living under the freeways feel. what a curious concept this is. underground parking would be far preferable but in the current climate, probably won't happen.