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Montrose HEB At 1701 W. Alabama St.

Porchman

By Porchman
in Montrose

Do you support the HEB development?  

93 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you support the HEB development?

    • Yes
      70
    • No
      13
    • Dunno
      5
    • Live in Montrose, but don't care
      3
    • Don't live in Montrose, so why should I care?
      2

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OkieEric

OkieEric

Posted
Posted

Nothing really new here, but now $700K has been quoted a few times (versus $2-3 million) as the money needed to offset building the store on stilts.

This articles mentions a possible restaurant to offset the costs:

http://www.hcnonline...stilted_heb.txt

and another from the chron back on the 5th mentions a few interesting items:

The cash needed to secure a park on the site now stands at $700,000, McClelland said Monday, thanks to a design change that would add 12,000 square feet of lease space on the first level of the store, next to the parking area.
The design McClelland currently is working with shows facades on all four sides of the building, he said, and places the loading dock out of sight underneath the store. This design also could include a wine bar and café, McClelland said, perhaps on an upstairs patio. He stressed the final design would be chosen by the community.

http://www.chron.com...ws/7141022.html

I like the sound of all of this, but it sure seems a bit out of place there so it's kind of hard to imagine. $700K seems like a drop in the bucket...

Edit: Now if they could just bury the power lines along that stretch....

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OkieEric

OkieEric

Posted
Posted

Anyone go to the latest Neartown Association meeting? Just ran across this article:

http://ultimatemontrose.com/stories/216428-residents-to-choose-heb-store-design

H-E-B regional president Scott McClelland decided to host the vote in person, rather than online.

No designs have been finalized, but three have been chosen to describe each store’s roof shape: museum, wale and tree house.

Currently, fundraising is underway to get the store built on stilts, accommodating parking underneath and leaving enough room at the southern end of the site for a park.

McClelland announced that as of yet, he has no pledges and estimated the fundraising target at $700,000 to help offset the added cost of putting the store on the second level.

Well, that sucks for those of us who won't be in town on Oct. 30th. Also, why would there be any pledges at this point without some sort of rendering? Hopefully those attending will have more to go from than "museum, whale, tree house" before the meeting.

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capnmcbarnacle

capnmcbarnacle

Posted
Posted

"If the market is not raised, McClelland said the company will preserve the property’s trees and work to create a community gathering space closer to the store."

If the thing is on stilts, the trees underneath would get whacked the same as if it sits on the ground. So the idea is that if you park underneath, the "green space" is preserved as a lawn with trees. But assuming it doesn't happen, at least they don't clear cut the trees. I can't really see why they would think it would be a good idea to cut down mature trees instead of leaving them for some shade in the parking lot.

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Highway6

Highway6

Posted
Posted

I can't really see why they would think it would be a good idea to cut down mature trees instead of leaving them for some shade in the parking lot.

It's not the easiest task getting enough parking in to satisfy the city, as well as dealing with drive lane widths, fire lanes, and handicap parking requirements. I havent stopped to examine the tree locations on the site, but i doubt they happen to fall into strait lines or are spaced appropriately to accommodate standard drive widths.

Also, parking lots aren't just concrete slabs. You have to grade the site and put storm drainage below grade. I'm not sure how far the root system of (Live?) Oaks spread out..... but if you were to lay out parking, drivelanes, and storm sewer as to not disturb 2 dozen sporadically placed Oak trees, I'm guessing they'd have nowhere near the amount of parking needed.. and it would be the most convoluted and odd parking lot in the city.

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OkieEric

OkieEric

Posted
Posted

Three renderings of the planned shop will be presented at this Saturday's Neartown meeting. I understand a vote will be taken on them. Whether HEB will honour it I know not, but it's a welcome gesture nonetheless.

Are you going to make the meeting? I would go but will be out of town

So they will unveil and take a vote all at the same meeting? Ugh... I don't understand why they can't release something beforehand. Hopefully there is a good turn out or else we'll probably wind up with "tree house" or "whale". j/k.

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sidegate

sidegate

Posted
Posted

Are you going to make the meeting? I would go but will be out of town

So they will unveil and take a vote all at the same meeting? Ugh... I don't understand why they can't release something beforehand. Hopefully there is a good turn out or else we'll probably wind up with "tree house" or "whale". j/k.

I'd like to be there for that part of it - problem is it's a long meeting (9-1) and I'm not privy to the agenda. Presumably this would be one of the major topics, therefore earlier rather than later....

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OkieEric

OkieEric

Posted
Posted

I'd like to be there for that part of it - problem is it's a long meeting (9-1) and I'm not privy to the agenda. Presumably this would be one of the major topics, therefore earlier rather than later....

Just found this article - mentions vote should be around noon

Residents to Vote on H-E-B designs on Oct 30

None of the three designs shows the store on stilts, an approach that would have allowed a two-acre park to be incorporated at the south end of the 7.7-acre tract.

To help offset the added cost of a second-floor store, McClelland and a group that had lobbied for green space on the site, the Montrose Land Defense Coalition, tried to raise $700,000 but have been unable to do so.

McClelland said the City Parks Department, thanks to other nearby green space, gave the plot a low score, which hurt the grant-seeking process.

If the money can't be found within 45 days, he said, H-E-B will build the store at ground level.

"We can't run a two-year capital campaign while paying heavy rent on land that sits idle," McClelland said.

Sounds as if the stilts idea is toast. So the Montrose Land Coalition was in charge of raising $700,000? Not that they ever had a chance, but good luck raising anything without any kind of rendering - sounds like the stilts idea was doomed from the start. Thanks to the City Parks Department for their part

The article also mentions Dunlavy will go to 3 lanes

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sidegate

sidegate

Posted
Posted

I'm still not sure how ground level vs stilts makes any difference to the area of land that would be set aside for a park. Were they planning to devote some of the space subtended by the store to parking? I suppose in the absence of rendering we'll never know.

Great, another three lane street. I'm sure with cars emptying out from both Fiesta and HEB there won't be any confusion at all there And it makes little difference if the three lane configuration stops at Alabama and everything bottlenecks back to to two lanes.

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sidegate

sidegate

Posted
Posted

They have the room to widen Dunlavy between Alabama and West Main. Maybe what they are thinking of is two lanes with a discontinuous central lane that allows traffic to wait for a turn into either store at their respective entrances. There's no room for three lanes north of Alabama or South of West Main without eating into the already anorexic sidewalks.

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sidegate

sidegate

Posted
Posted

Thanks - and you're right about the itty-bitty images.

Is voting on this project open to whomever shows up for the meetings, or are there criteria about proximity, owners vs renters, etc.?

I suppose voting is open to whoever but I wouldn't anticipate many non-stakeholders showing up...

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Highway6

Highway6

Posted
Posted

Sharing what I gathered from the meeting.

All three options sit on the site the same way.

They did have a tree survey showing 3 categories of trees: the 6 largest, the remaining medium sized trees in good condition, and dead or dying trees. All 3 preserve all but 1 of the largest. That tree plus any other that needs to come down will be moved elsewhere on the site or to a nearby school or park.

5 of the 6 largest trees sit in the middle or south side of the property, which was one of the deciding factors in sitting the footprint along Alabama.

Scott McClelland did bring up the possible 2 level option. The footprint would still be the same. It would add 1.9 acres of park, which they located on the south side of the property taking up maybe 25-33% of the parking area.

In my opinion, the park gained by the 2 story option is minimal and not really worth it. It would be better situated along Alabama.. but that's not possible because than the store would take out those 5 particular trees.

One thing I thought was cool for all 3 options was how they are addressing Alabama.

They are setting the building back more than the minimum and keeping the height minimal along Alabama. Think it was about 18'. Also they are looking into green walls, vertically planted, covering what appeared to be a majority of the Alabama elevation.

For the site.. I think they did a pretty good job with the tree situation.. not only preserving whats there, but going significantly beyond the min requirements for landscape requirements. Those islands around the 5 big trees really are islands of green and not just 10x20 patches of grass replacing every 20th parking spot. There is a significant green area across from the main entrance to the store.. It appeared to have benches.. There would be a architectural covered canopy connecting this to the main entrance.

They have a 9000 SF patio at the SE corner of the store which includes special paving, water feature, outdoor seating, stage.. this will be next to their HEB cafe ( whatever they call it ).

East of the permanent patio is an additional 12,000 SF Event space. This will have the special paving and can be barricaded on both sides to turn that parking into a plaza connecting to Dunlavy.

As for the 3 options. They had a ballot box in the back.. everyone from HEB or Lake Flato were forbidden to give an opnion on their favorite.. as to not influence the people there. According to them, the Neartown associaiton will be tallying the votes for HEB... they'll release the result next Thursday.

I think the weakest is the "Pavilion" option. You wont see most the raised lanterns from the street, and the raised tiltwall panels along the perimeter... it's disney... there's no depth to them.

I also think it does the worst job of minimizing the height along Alabama.

The "wave" was okay.. Not special but not bad.

"Sawtooth" got my vote. It by far does the best with the north facing clerestory lighting. And as far as massing and aesthetics, i thought i did the best job.

photo2.jpg

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photo4.jpg

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sidegate

sidegate

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the detailed summary and pics. I got there late, and the place was pretty full. Pavilion was sort of bleh, so it came down to the Wave and Sawtooth, the latter just being more interesting to look at so that got my vote.

Traffic will be a concern until one or other store goes under, presumably Fiesta, but all three designs are VERY pedestrian friendly so hopefully that will encourage foot & bicycle traffic. They're apparently even installing a pump by the bicycle stand, an announcement which met with a round of applause. I got a good vibe from the CEO when he spoke, you could tell he's not in it just for the money.

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Highway6

Highway6

Posted
Posted

I don't live in that area but I do have friends there so while I don't have a real stake in this, I am curious.

Can you give an estimate as to how many folks showed up to vote? I'd have voted for the sawtooth also.

I'm not good at estimating crowd sizes... I'll say 200ish Maybe sidegate or someone else can give a more accurate impression.

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sidegate

sidegate

Posted
Posted

Yeah, probably between 150 and 200 when I got there, although I didn't see any faces I knew from the neighbourhood. Looked to be plenty of votes cast. They had catered lunch at the end, that probably helped keep people there.

I missed the discussion on the rail line. They had some posters on various aspects of that (sidewalk width, lanes, etc), and all had "Decision: This Year" crossed out in black marker, which was a little curious.

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