METRORail Uptown Line

[kylejack]

If there is a place I could see benefiting from one subterranean station it would be downtown for the future commuter lines, below the LRT 2 line junction.

I don't like the idea of putting the Intermodal Transit center outside of walking distance and 2-3 stations away from the heart of downtown... not to mention only directly connecting to one LRT line.

Move the Commuter Terminal a half mile further in and it will directly connect to 4 future LRT lines.

That being said, if the commuter rail lines finished their trips by joining the Red or Green/Purple lines just outside of downtown and stopping at the above mentioned multi-line junction, that would work just as well.

Eh where? I can't think of a closer unused plot aside from an in-use parking lot for UHD. And why move Intermodal Transit center off of the heavy rail lines that it may some day be able to use?

[Highway6]

Eh where? I can't think of a closer unused plot aside from an in-use parking lot for UHD. And why move Intermodal Transit center off of the heavy rail lines that it may some day be able to use?

Texas Tower Lot is 3/4 empty still, right? Thats right on Main and one block from the junction with the other two lines.

While Metro hasnt mentioned using existing heavy freight lines, I agree, keeping that option open for the future would be good. But digging one 1/4 mile subterranean tunnel with space for 4-6 lines from an inner downtown terminus to an access point to the North of downtown near those freight lines wouldnt eliminate using those freight lines as a future option.

I thought current discussion had the commuter lines as the same gauge as LRT, right.

Also.. I don't care how many bus lines eventually connect to the Red line at the LRT. If it connects CRT directly to only 1 LRT instead of 4, like it could by moving it 1/2 mile down the track, that is not a successful ITC.

[AtticaFlinch]

If it connects CRT directly to only 1 LRT instead of 4, like it could by moving it 1/2 mile down the track, that is not a successful ITC.

That's the way Paris is set up, and that system is incredibly efficient.

Paris, France, not Texas.

[TheNiche]

Texas Tower Lot is 3/4 empty still, right? Thats right on Main and one block from the junction with the other two lines.

While Metro hasnt mentioned using existing heavy freight lines, I agree, keeping that option open for the future would be good. But digging one 1/4 mile subterranean tunnel with space for 4-6 lines from an inner downtown terminus to an access point to the North of downtown near those freight lines wouldnt eliminate using those freight lines as a future option.

I thought current discussion had the commuter lines as the same gauge as LRT, right.

Also.. I don't care how many bus lines eventually connect to the Red line at the LRT. If it connects CRT directly to only 1 LRT instead of 4, like it could by moving it 1/2 mile down the track, that is not a successful ITC.

I think your criticism of the current ITC site has merit, however I think that a more realistic solution is to use the Post Office site, which is adjacent to an existing and underutilized rail yard, is practically adjacent to the existing AMTRAK facility, is where the nicely landscaped trails along Buffalo Bayou end, is closer to downtown, and sports a terrific skyline view. The USPS has been trying to get rid of it, too. The terminus of the Southeast Line is currently set at Bagby and Capitol/Rusk, however it could be extended the short distance to Franklin, which sets us up for an easy shot down Washington or Center St. in the future.

Another idea is that we could also set aside some of the land on the post office site (and there's plenty of it) for large public parking garages that could be directly connected to from freeway flyovers in the next iteration of freeway construction. By concentrating many thousands of parking spaces in one transit-served location and running shuttles from that location all over downtown, we could probably get away with reducing parking requirements for new structures, making it easier for new development to pencil out.

If we really wanted to get wild, then we could propose that the I-45 and I-10 merger be sunk and topped off with a landing strip for corporate jets. The runway, which can be shorter, could take up the opposite bank of White Oak Bayou. As a plus, it'd piss off the Heights NIMBYs, assuring that much civic hilarity would ensue.

[Highway6]

I don't understand some of the scope of the ITC, or Burnett Plaza as its called now.

4 bus bays. Why? You have 8 or 9 bus lines that run on N Main before coming into downtown. So, you're building them a special mega station just outside of downtown.

Instead... have that station in downtown so you have access to those same 8 lines plus a network 5 times that many.

Kiss & Ride. Again, why? Those make sense at suburban park and rides where everyone from 5 miles around must come to one point to access the transportation network. It doesnt make sense downtown for one access point when you have 99 other access points within a 1/4 mile.. esp with the so few residents downtown.

I don't see why this TC has to be any bigger than the current half block downtown TC. It will be Intermodal just by being withing spitting distance of 4 LRTs and 50 bus lines. Bring in CRT either via the Redline to its own platform on the lot, or by a 1/4 mile tunnel and Intermodal mission accomplished.

That's the way Paris is set up, and that system is incredibly efficient.

Thats great. And if they had the option to move that juction a 1/4 mile away and increase direct LRT connections by 300%, that would increase their efficiency even more so.

Plan A - Commuters arrive 1/2 mile outside downtown. They wait 6 minutes to ferry in on the Redline where they can then get off at their downtown building or then wait an additional 6 minutes to catch the Purple, Green, or Inner Katy LRT.

Plan B- Commuters arrive in the middle of downtown. They either walk to their final destination or wait 6 minutes for one of 4 LRT lines.

If you're happy with Plan A just because Parisians find it efficient.. you haz no hopez.

[Highway6]

I think your criticism of the current ITC site has merit, however I think that a more realistic solution is to use the Post Office site, which is adjacent to an existing and underutilized rail yard, is practically adjacent to the existing AMTRAK facility, is where the nicely landscaped trails along Buffalo Bayou end, is closer to downtown, and sports a terrific skyline view. The USPS has been trying to get rid of it, too. The terminus of the Southeast Line is currently set at Bagby and Capitol/Rusk, however it could be extended the short distance to Franklin, which sets us up for an easy shot down Washington or Center St. in the future.

Maybe I'm clueless to the amount of space needed for commuter rail component of the ITC, but I don't see the needs for mass parking and kiss and rides, and if you move the point to within walking distance of 50 bus lines, then that removes the needs for multiple bus bays.

CRT to LRT is the most important connection. CRT to multiple LRT.

I agree that the USPS site is twice as good as the current site in thats its twice as close. But I still think it doesnt provide for the optimal CRT-LRT connection. And its still a hell of a walk to 3/4ths of downtown.

Like i said.. maybe i'm underestimating the space need for the actual CRT component.. or I'm compensating by thinking it can stay under a street.. But if the space needs are determined by some of that unnecessary scope.. I just dont get it. Heck, even Penn Station only takes up 2 city blocks and we're looking at a fraction of the connections.

[Highway6]

Actually.. I have an even better idea.

The City owns Market Square and the block to the South is vacant. This would be 1 block away from Preston Station and 2-3 blocks away from future Purple/Green/Inner Katy line station.

That is 500' of land parallel to Travis or Milam. If you bring all CRT in under Milam from a point around the USPS site.. you're only talking 500-1000' of tunnel.

That still leaves a full city block for bus bays, kiss and gos, and even structured parking and ground level retail. Connect this to a new and improved Market Square park over half the subterranean station.

Further plus.. this part of downtown is free of pedestrian tunnels crossing under streets. Yet, you could connect into the tunnel system across the street at the Chron bldg.

[TheNiche]

Further plus.. this part of downtown is free of pedestrian tunnels crossing under streets. Yet, you could connect into the tunnel system across the street at the Chron bldg.

Now you're talkin'.

[Trae]

Actually.. I have an even better idea.

The City owns Market Square and the block to the South is vacant. This would be 1 block away from Preston Station and 2-3 blocks away from future Purple/Green/Inner Katy line station.

That is 500' of land parallel to Travis or Milam. If you bring all CRT in under Milam from a point around the USPS site.. you're only talking 500-1000' of tunnel.

That still leaves a full city block for bus bays, kiss and gos, and even structured parking and ground level retail. Connect this to a new and improved Market Square park over half the subterranean station.

Further plus.. this part of downtown is free of pedestrian tunnels crossing under streets. Yet, you could connect into the tunnel system across the street at the Chron bldg.

Email this to Ms. Parker.

[IHB2]

Email this to Ms. Parker.

yes, please do. it is the kind of improvment that would be game changing for LRT ridership in Hou. also, could you come up with a plan this elegant for the Univ Line western segment after it crosses Buffalo Spdwy b/c what they've got now is just stupid.

[lockmat]

not that it will ever happen, but found this...

http://rdlr.com/default.asp

[Talbot]

I like their design for the TMC station.

[dbigtex56]

not that it will ever happen, but found this...

http://rdlr.com/default.asp

Where'd all those white people come from?

[samagon]

Where'd all those white people come from?

Hahahaha

I'm also trying to figure out what that guy in the suit is doing on the opposite platform, is he yawning or cheering?

[IHB2]

Hahahaha

I'm also trying to figure out what that guy in the suit is doing on the opposite platform, is he yawning or cheering?

I think he must be cheering METRO's success in magically widening Post Oak so that there are 2 northbound lanes where today there are entire multistory buildings. I guess the artist didn't get the memo that METRO would just be acquiring tiny pieces of land along the east side of Post Oak so they can squeeze LRT in and still have 4 traffic lanes.

kinda like the Heights Walmart rendering that shows only parkland around the site.

[Subdude]

It's pretty decent looking. There is always something unearthly about the little people in renderings. It's like they look too normal to be normal.

[samagon]

hrm.

now the question (with uptown and university not being built) is how much is it costing not to build these lines now, and they will undoubtedly still be built at some point in the future...

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/river_oaks/news/metro-reviewing-uptown-transit-plan/article_0b04ed4a-f797-11e1-834e-001a4bcf887a.html

[TheNiche]

I'd rather that they spend the money on grade separations along Post Oak at Westheimer and San Felipe along with short flyovers for left turns where there are currently minor signals. That way, if METRO is ever able to raise the funds for the Uptown Line, there are fewer signalized intersections with which they can play havoc.

[mfastx]

I'd rather that they spend the money on grade separations along Post Oak at Westheimer and San Felipe along with short flyovers for left turns where there are currently minor signals. That way, if METRO is ever able to raise the funds for the Uptown Line, there are fewer signalized intersections with which they can play havoc.

Rail or not, some grade separations would be nice, a la Main/Fannin @ Holcombe. Richmond/Westheimer @ Post Oak would greatly benefit.

[IHB2]

"The three-part plan relies on federal transportation grants to build dedicated bus lanes on Post Oak Boulevard from Richmond to the West Loop and a proposed transit center off Westpark near South Rice Avenue...The Uptown District would seek about $62 million in federal grant funds and has committed $55.7 million for the local match. The district also would spend another $30 million to acquire right-of-way on Post Oak Boulevard, Breeding said...The plan’s third component seeks approval from state and federal highway officials to add new bus lanes on the West Loop."

This plan seems to be about laying infrastructure for the Uptown Line even if the Univ Line doesn't get built.

and I detect the presence of the City of Bellaire in this plan, pushing for the Westpark Station that is the transit foundation of the city's plan to develop TOD in the current warehouse district. I guess it makes little difference whether the transit is future BRT or maybe-never LRT.

[samagon]

"The three-part plan relies on federal transportation grants to build dedicated bus lanes on Post Oak Boulevard from Richmond to the West Loop and a proposed transit center off Westpark near South Rice Avenue...The Uptown District would seek about $62 million in federal grant funds and has committed $55.7 million for the local match. The district also would spend another $30 million to acquire right-of-way on Post Oak Boulevard, Breeding said...The plan’s third component seeks approval from state and federal highway officials to add new bus lanes on the West Loop."

This plan seems to be about laying infrastructure for the Uptown Line even if the Univ Line doesn't get built.

and I detect the presence of the City of Bellaire in this plan, pushing for the Westpark Station that is the transit foundation of the city's plan to develop TOD in the current warehouse district. I guess it makes little difference whether the transit is future BRT or maybe-never LRT.

If that's the case and they can re-use all the infrastructure used here for the eventual LRT, then it seems a sound investment, just the way it read (to me) was that they were going to drop all that change to do this, and then still have to reconfigure everything for LRT in the future.

[Slick Vik]

If that's the case and they can re-use all the infrastructure used here for the eventual LRT, then it seems a sound investment, just the way it read (to me) was that they were going to drop all that change to do this, and then still have to reconfigure everything for LRT in the future.

Agreed