Kitchen Remodel

[RedScare]

For those considering a kitchen redo, while staying in the house, a few suggestions.

1. Plan everything before you start.

2. Throw out the plan.

3. Learn to enjoy fast food.

4. Get over the gross factor of washing dishes in your bathroom sink.

5. Use plenty of plastic to cover all doorways to limit dust.

6. Take lots of pictures to show your friends on HAIF.

7. Accept that time estimates are merely guesses. It usually takes much longer.

8. Same applies to cost estimates.

9. Plan for future projects by installing plumbing or electrical now, rather than having to rip out later.

10. If you are the type that is "too good" to live in a construction zone, by all means, move out until the work is done.

11. For everyone else, enjoy the experience. Your friends will think you are crazy when you tell them it was 48 degrees INSIDE when you woke up, but they'll be impressed that you did it.

Now, for some pics...

These are the before shots. The kitchen had this annoying wall that shrunk the usable space by 5 feet.

The shiplap was covered with 1920s era wallpaper. Unfortunately, most of it had too many holes to keep. This wall to the dining room will soon go, to be replaced by a bar.

All the walls are gone. Those three windows light up the entire kitchen now.

This shows the kitchen from the dining room. The bar will run from right to left, with the entry to the kitchen on the left. The sink will go under the window of course, and an island range will go in the middle of the room, roughly between the door and window.

That's all for now. Hopefully, I'll have some cabinet pics later this week. Anyone have any good microwave recipes?

[Gary]

Looks allot bigger now Red. I'm assuming there was no support beam in the wall that was torn down. Speaking of which, what are you going to do about a pantry seeing that it's gone?

Can't wait to see more pics.

[RedScare]

Looks allot bigger now Red. I'm assuming there was no support beam in the wall that was torn down. Speaking of which, what are you going to do about a pantry seeing that it's gone?

Can't wait to see more pics.

I sure hope it wasn't a support wall.

No, the load bearing wall runs down the center of the house...the wall on the right in the last photo....and, yeah, it made the room much bigger.

Oh, and the pantry? That would be my dining room table. Eventually, a new pantry will be built in next to the fridge.

[Guest danax]

I'm sure it will look great but I am partial to breakfast nooks though. Are those pendant fixtures original? What kind of flooring will the kitchen have? Linoleum is still available and it's still a good product. I sure know what you're describing about the construction zone living. At least you'll be done soon, mine is taking many years. I'm used to it but occasionally get tired of sweeping sawdust and looking at broken walls sometimes.

The wallpaper is an interesting artifact. Is that a picture of a bottle of wine on it, or .....ketchup?

[Gary]

The wallpaper is an interesting artifact. Is that a picture of a bottle of wine on it, or .....ketchup?

I forgot to comment on the wallpaper, very cool. If you have any scraps left, take a close up and post it.

[RedScare]

I'm sure it will look great but I am partial to breakfast nooks though. Are those pendant fixtures original? What kind of flooring will the kitchen have? Linoleum is still available and it's still a good product. I sure know what you're describing about the construction zone living. At least you'll be done soon, mine is taking many years. I'm used to it but occasionally get tired of sweeping sawdust and looking at broken walls sometimes.

The wallpaper is an interesting artifact. Is that a picture of a bottle of wine on it, or .....ketchup?

Yeah, I tried everything to fit in a breakfast nook, but nothing fit well. There appears to be several remodels. Originally, that big opening was a wall with two doors going to a hallway along the window wall. The three windows were orignally two. Someone turned it into a bank of three, similar to the dining room. (smart move on the south side of the house. It hit 96 degrees in there this summer.) Not sure if the fixtures are original, but they are knob and tube wired, with the same wiring on the light switch, so they might be original. As for sawdust, that Shop Vac has become my new best friend!

Wallpaper pics...

This is a pic of the three versions I found. The bottom one is pretty lame. The one on the right appears to be original. The one on the left is a remodel, possibly in the 40s. I think the drywall went up in the 50s.

Another shot of the newer wallpaper. Gotta love that watermelon! I think that is a bottle of oil next to the melon, but my friends think it is a waterpipe. Tells you what kind of friends I have. I think the red bottle is ketchup. Mmm...ketchup.

This is what I found behind the sink. I think it is an old version of a backsplash.

[jm1fd]

So, how long did they SAY it was going to take? Will you share the budget with us too?

[TJones]

I am assuming that it was you that installed the newer Romex wire in the kitchen from that last pic ? That is a full on job dude, KUDOS to you.

[RedScare]

So, how long did they SAY it was going to take? Will you share the budget with us too?

The demolition and cabinet work is being handled by a friend who is a custom cabinet maker. He cut me a bit of a break on his usual price of $225 per linear foot, so he is not much more than semi-custom, which I believe would end up at $200 per foot installed. He will probably hit his mark of 10 days, as long as other things do not slow him up. The plumbing was to be done this weekend, but now some will be done later this week, and the remainder after Christmas. He is also a friend, and is giving me a big break. Normally, the rerouting of gas and water would be about $1500 to $2000.

The appliances are a big problem. I do not want a vent hood, so I am limited to downdraft ranges, which basically means Jenn Air. This means a couple of grand, instead of $1200. I ditched the tankless water heater, due to install cost (up to $2500 total), and the fact that my gas bill currently is less than $20 a month. Not much savings compared to a huge install cost. The water heater is in a hard to reach corner, so it won't cost much space.

Another big deal is countertops. Corian is $50 to $60 per square foot. Granite is closer to $35 psf, but it is easier to order Corian, so I may go with that. Plus, there are more colors to choose from. For my job, it will probably run close to $3000.

Painting all those cabinets is possibly $1500 or more. The V-groove plank ceiling is about $600. The final headache is the floors. They are original wood, topped with plywood and linoleum. I plan to pull up the plywood to see what is underneath. I am hopeful, since every other part of the house that I have exposed is in remarkable shape. However, they will have to be refinished, along with the rest of the house. I have a lead on a reasonably priced refinisher, so hopefully that comes in under $2000. The cost of refinishing versus tile is similar.

I have been told that if I come in under $20,000, I am a star. It is going to be close. I am GCing the job myself, which will save $5000 to $10000. I think it is worth the headache. This is by far the biggest remodel I will do in this house, so while trying not to blow cash, I don't want to cheapass it either. I think it will be worth it when I am done.

[RedScare]

I am assuming that it was you that installed the newer Romex wire in the kitchen from that last pic ? That is a full on job dude, KUDOS to you.

I am now very comfortable in my attic. I also installed new lights on my deck since I was up there.

[jm1fd]

Painting all those cabinets is possibly $1500 or more. The V-groove plank ceiling is about $600. The final headache is the floors. They are original wood, topped with plywood and linoleum. I plan to pull up the plywood to see what is underneath. I am hopeful, since every other part of the house that I have exposed is in remarkable shape. However, they will have to be refinished, along with the rest of the house. I have a lead on a reasonably priced refinisher, so hopefully that comes in under $2000. The cost of refinishing versus tile is similar.

I had ~5-600 sqft of oak floors refinished for $900, and that included new shoe mould, as well as pulling up ~3 sheets of plywood nailed to the floor with ring shank nails in one room. If you're doing just the kitchen, you should be looking at $500 tops.

[jm1fd]

The appliances are a big problem. I do not want a vent hood, so I am limited to downdraft ranges, which basically means Jenn Air. This means a couple of grand, instead of $1200. I ditched the tankless water heater, due to install cost (up to $2500 total), and the fact that my gas bill currently is less than $20 a month. Not much savings compared to a huge install cost. The water heater is in a hard to reach corner, so it won't cost much space.

If you're doing a cooktop instead of a full blown range, you should look into the downdraft hoods that rise up out of the countertop. Hell...you could probably even use one of those with a slide in type range that doesn't have the control panel sticking up at the back.

Smart move on the tankless. I too investigated those, and decided it wasn't worth the cost of the unit and stainless vent alone, much less the install. I essentially recouped the space in my laundry room with a $20 stacking kit for my washer and dryer.

[RedScare]

I had ~5-600 sqft of oak floors refinished for $900, and that included new shoe mould, as well as pulling up ~3 sheets of plywood nailed to the floor with ring shank nails in one room. If you're doing just the kitchen, you should be looking at $500 tops.

I'm actually going to do the whole house at once, minus the utility room and bathroom, about 1200 sf or so. I only want to clean up that dust and move the furniture one. Did you like the finished floors? If so, would you send me contact info on your refinisher?

I am putting in a slide in range to save some wall space. I am surprised at how few companies make a downdraft range. There are several downdraft cooktops, but few ranges. Plus, the pop up vents are $700-1000. Add that to an $800 cooktop and an $800 wall oven and it's worse than the Jenn Air.

[Dan the Man]

Having survived two kitchen remodels, I offer the following advice: Invest in a "hot plate", it makes a good stove substitute, and it is easily moved (important during a house remodel) Also, make sure you vent the Jenn-Air to an outside wall, not just under the house. Otherwise, the entire house will fill up with cooking fumes. Looks like a great project, I look forward to following it!

[musicman]

good luck!! what are the dimensions of the kitchen following wall removal?

[RedScare]

It was 13.5 feet by 8.5 feet prior to removing the half wall. Now, it is 13.5 by 13.5.

Dan, thanks for the hint on venting to the side. My plan was to vent into the crawl space...until I read your post.

OK, time to go load up the truck for a trip to the landfill. If anyone wants to help, come on by! It's not like you'll be watching the Texans.

[flipper]

Great stuff Redscare,

I can't imagine living in a house that is being remodeled. You are a trooper!

One thing I've found with Corian is that many many potential buyers are not giving it any "value" when buying a place. I've done 2 remodels for folks where they had me tear out month old corian in favor of new granite.

Something to ponder....

flipper

[RedScare]

Great stuff Redscare,

I can't imagine living in a house that is being remodeled. You are a trooper!

One thing I've found with Corian is that many many potential buyers are not giving it any "value" when buying a place. I've done 2 remodels for folks where they had me tear out month old corian in favor of new granite.

Something to ponder....

flipper

Thanks for the support. Since I am single, it is much easier, as my limits are only my own tolerance level, not someone else's.

Do you have suggestions on where to get granite? Estimate on cost? How long to get it delivered? Ease and cost of installation? I appreciate any help in this area. It is my lowest confidence level. I have decided to install an under-counter sink, as it looks good and will allow me more time to decide on a counter top.

[sevfiv]

I think the red bottle is ketchup. Mmm...ketchup.

definitely ketchup - and i swear there's a fondu pot on there, too!

[Parrothead]

I just love that paper! Classic.

[silverartfox]

RedScare, thank you for the pictures and information on your kitchen remodel. It's reassuring that other people are renovating houses in older neighborhoods as my friends and relatives think I'm crazy. The re-do of my small 1935 kitchen with a bad '50 remuddle is in the cards for early next year and I'll be living in the house while it's going on. At this point, I haven't decided if I should be my own GC or spend the extra thousands for a turnkey job.

In my kitchen, the masonite paneling and cardboard-type walls and ceiling need to be torn out along with the cabinets. No walls or plumbing will be moved. Electrical was upgraded previously; don't know if I want to run plugmold or have outlets in the walls below the cabinets. Cabinet dimensions are a problem, especially for the breakfast nook that I'm resurrecting; looks like I'll have to go custom. Undermount sink, Silestone countertops, tile backsplash (do it myself), medium grade appliances, resilient floor (not ceramic tile). The sheetrocker, plumber and electrician have done work for me before, but how to get everybody lined up in to come in at the right time is a problem.

[flipper]

Thanks for the support. Since I am single, it is much easier, as my limits are only my own tolerance level, not someone else's.

Do you have suggestions on where to get granite? Estimate on cost? How long to get it delivered? Ease and cost of installation? I appreciate any help in this area. It is my lowest confidence level. I have decided to install an under-counter sink, as it looks good and will allow me more time to decide on a counter top.

I pay ~31 a sq. ft for granite with a 1 1/2 "waterfall" edge. Like this:

I think it's another $150 to have the undermount sink hole cut out, polished and glued to the granite. Keep in mind that different colors can range drastically in price.

That being said, since you are starting from scratch in your kitchen you can save some serious money by planning the layout of your cabinets.

You can buy prefabricated granite countertops in different lengths. They come in lots of colors and even have the bullnose on the front already. You can even get them with a bullnose on the front and 1 side, leaving only 1 unfinished end for you to work with.

You can get these premade slabs up to 96" long. So if you plan out your counters so that one end can "die into" a wall or deeper cabinet/pantry, you can just cut the unfinished end of the countertop off and slap it down.

To give you an idea on the savings of doing it this way, a 26" x 96" slab with a bullnose on the front and side in "baltic brown" costs $215. That's $16 a square foot, or roughly 1/2 of an inexpensive granite installer.

Inside corners and undermount sinks can be tricky to do with these slabs, but you might want to think about it.

These Prefabricated slabs can you purchased at alot of the granite suppliers (tons up around hempstead hwy) or at places like Natural Stone Gallery: NSG Website and Colours of the Rainbow: Colours Website

flipper

[nmainguy]

Do you have suggestions on where to get granite? Estimate on cost? How long to get it delivered? Ease and cost of installation? I appreciate any help in this area. It is my lowest confidence level. I have decided to install an under-counter sink, as it looks good and will allow me more time to decide on a counter top.

We used:

Granite and Marble Connection

8355 N. Fwy.

281.448.0944

Price as of Mar. 2005:

56 l/f 41.33 per ft. installed: $2,314.48

1 undermount sink installation: $180.00

They weren't the cheapest or the most expensive but they were the most reliable and conscientious. They have ton's of slabs on-site to choose from in all price ranges. We choose a mid-priced slab for the kitchen. They came out, pre-measured and installed on time. It took them about 3 weeks from the day we put down half until the day they finished. This was one of the few subs who actually performed as promised.

This was the piece for the slide-in oven. They had to bring in a solid piece and make the cut-out IN the house because it couldn't be transported safely with the two sides only connected by the thin strip behind the range. If you want min. cutting inside the house, you may want to just request they do it in 3 pieces-although one continuous piece looks pretty sharp.

The cut-outs for the two sinks and hardware were included in the per/ft price. The under-mount was $180.00 including the hardware installation.

I did the bar sink/hardware install myself.

The price did not include the white marble back-splash [or the dirty breakfast dishes.] We did that ourselves.

This a piece they did for one our bathroom vanities-nice edge work.

[stolitx]

Now I don't feel like I can complain about my messy house and sore back after our kitchen make over that started this weekend (new counters, sink, faucet, and backsplash only).

Can't wait to see more pictures.

[RedScare]

Well, today begins week three of the kitchen remodel. From earlier posts, you may remember that the cabinets and walls were ripped out in about two days. The third day was spent rerunning electrical wire. The first weekend was spent cleaning up the mess. All of last week, the cabinet guy was making my cabinets. The second weekend, I moved all of the wood to the curb, bagged up the drywall and took it to the curb, and dragged the kitchen sink out. Someone picked up the sink within an hour. The city picked up the rest on Monday. Also, the air conditioning guy and plumber came over the weekend to work on moving pipe, replacing some old galvanized pipe, and install central air and heat. Cutting holes for air vents in every single room meant that the entire house was a pigsty. Sunday, I tried to clean, but it was a losing proposition. There is sawdust and drywall dust everywhere.

Monday, the cabinet guy came back. He had suggested installing V-groove planking on the ceiling. It sounded great, so, after more electrical work to position the recessed lights, we went to Montalbano Lumber and bought the V-groove. Also on Monday, we ripped out the linoleum and plywood subfloor, only to find more linoleum glued to the wood. That took several more hours to get up, but the best news is that only two boards are rotten. I also found that the wall that I ripped out used to be an exterior wall. A previous owner enclosed the back porch and added the bank of 3 windows seen in a previous photo. This adds 5 feet to the width of the kitchen, making it a 13.5 foot square...plenty of room. I also bought can lights from Lowe's.

Tuesday bogged down. The ceiling seemed loose, so we bought a couple of 2x8s to buttress the rafters. That made the ceiling solid. We also drywalled everything in. The day ended with all of my interior lights out, since we did not finish hooking them back up. It was pretty funny taking a shower with a drop light for light.

Today, the V-groove is going up. This stuff looks cool. Pics will come later, as my battery died. Hopefully, the lights will be back on, too.

Tomorrow, the cabinets start going in. Friday, the cabinet doors arrive. They will go in after Christmas.

Happy Holidays.

[RedScare]

OK, here's a few pics...

Back door area, that at one time was the back porch.

Another view of ceiling with V-groove planking.

View of floor damage. This is just about the only damage found. It probably is related to the fact that this used to be a back porch.

[flipper]

Looks good! I'm diggin the ceiling.

flipper

[sevfiv]

yay! the ceiling is interesting

[jm1fd]

Ceiling is nice. I've always liked that. How thick are the boards?

[RedScare]

Ceiling is nice. I've always liked that. How thick are the boards?

Thanks everyone. The planks are tongue and groove. The exposed face is 5 1/4 inches, and it is 3/4 inch thick. It was $5.69 per 8 foot board at Montalbano.

Here's a shot of the finished ceiling with a WORKING LIGHT! I got my lights back on today.