Freed-Montrose Library At 4100 Montrose Blvd.

[torvald]

since the downtown post office has been under renovation i had not

been to the library. so i went to my local branch in montrose. i arrived

15 minutes early and within 5 minutes there were abut 6 homeless fellas

lining up in front of the door. when the branch opened they filed into the

men's room and during the next half hour emerged --- some with wet hair

and one with a fresh gallon container of water. a few switched out their

items from their old plastic bags with new library bags (for books) and left.

i know they have set up recent ordinances as far as cleanliness and

behaviorin libraries, some aimed at keeping the locations from being a

destinationsimilar to covenant house (which is nearby and free). i would

feel less odd ifthey also used the library and were cleaning up in preparation

to look at books or use the computer.

in fairness, i suppose the only way it really affected me was not wanting to

usethe restroom there and getting the creeps when one fella with random

parts of his head shaved kept checking me out.

[sevfiv]

there was alot of controversy about this last year...

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2005_3865766

Mayor Bill White said after the council meeting Wednesday that some conflict between library patrons and the homeless may be inevitable, but that there have been frequent complaints about such abuses as people stripping and bathing in the restrooms.

Several downtown library patrons said Wednesday that they think the new regulations clearly are aimed at the homeless.

...

Prohibited on any library property:

-Asking for money or attempting to sell items

-Spreading out contents of bags or leaving bags on library property

-Staring, harassment or other behavior that reasonably can be expected to disturb others

Prohibited in library buildings:

-Sleeping, laying head or feet on furniture.

-Changing clothes, bathing or shaving in restrooms

-Bodily hygiene that constitutes a nuisance

-Bringing in bedrolls or backpacks more than two feet in length or height; bringing in more than two bags of any kind

[sevfiv]

oops...also, it is on the HPL's "rules" page:

http://www.houstonlibrary.org/about/libraryrules.html

_______________

so it seems the "library as personal restroom" as well as the staring episode are both included

Edited October 30, 2006 by sevfiv

[Mark F. Barnes]

since the downtown post office has been under renovation i had not

been to the library. so i went to my local branch in montrose. i arrived

15 minutes early and within 5 minutes there were abut 6 homeless fellas

lining up in front of the door. when the branch opened they filed into the

men's room and during the next half hour emerged --- some with wet hair

and one with a fresh gallon container of water. a few switched out their

items from their old plastic bags with new library bags (for books) and left.

i know they have set up recent ordinances as far as cleanliness and

behaviorin libraries, some aimed at keeping the locations from being a

destinationsimilar to covenant house (which is nearby and free). i would

feel less odd ifthey also used the library and were cleaning up in preparation

to look at books or use the computer.

in fairness, i suppose the only way it really affected me was not wanting to

usethe restroom there and getting the creeps when one fella with random

parts of his head shaved kept checking me out.

This coming from a person who posts about the travesty of discrimination in other threads.

Here's a new term for you to learn:

Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have morals or virtues that one does not truly possess or practice. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. The word is arguably derived from hypo- meaning under, + krinein meaning to decide/to dispute.[citation needed]

A classic example of a hypocritical act is to criticize others for carrying out some action while carrying out the same action oneself. Some people believe that most people, if not all, are hypocrites; they tend to criticize what they perceive to be bad behaviour in others, yet will justify it when they are inclined to perform the same action. This form of hypocrisy is closely related to the fundamental attribution error, a well-studied phenomenon of human psychology: individuals are more likely to explain their own actions by their environment, yet they attribute the actions of others to 'innate characteristics', thus leading towards judging others while justifying ones' own actions.

Hypocrisy is a relative term, and its meaning depends on ones' moral beliefs. For instance, moral relativists often see moral absolutists as hypocrites when they follow the detail of certain prescribed moral codes while neglecting to follow the underlying ideas behind these moral codes. Similarly, absolutists view relative morality as inherently hypocritical because the rules are not always to be adhered to absolutely.

In simple terms the pot calling the kettle black!!!!

[sevfiv]

wow that was snotty. contribution to the conversation might be more interesting, though...

here's another word: obtrusive. i'll leave the elementary part of looking it up to you, though

[nmainguy]

This coming from a person who posts about the travesty of discrimination in other threads.

Wow. Torvald was merely describing-not discriminating. You might one to check one of your little dictionaries so that the next time you don't come out looking so boorish.

[torvald]

This coming from a person who posts about the travesty of discrimination in other threads.

A classic example of a hypocritical act is to criticize others for carrying out some action while carrying out the same action oneself....

In simple terms the pot calling the kettle black!!!!

"A classic example of a hypocritical act is to criticize others for carrying

out some action while carrying out the same action oneself...."

the only action i suppose i considered that we both had at the library was

the need to go to the bathroom. all folks do it, so we all have it in common.

i was there to get books, they were not.

i am not sure what you are talking about so i am not exactly sure what to

address. do i really post so much about travesty and humiliation in other

threads? perhaps i am a more sensitive person than i thought! i basically

just write about what i see everyday whether it is while riding my bike,

going about houston or at work. i spend much time in transit and am

basically just writing what i observe.

by saying that i disliked the homeless using the library restroom as a

personal shower or rest stop is not discrimination. by saying that i didn't

like the fella leering at me was not due to him being homeless, it was that

i wasn't interested and it was pretty intense leering.

as i have written in other threads, i have volunteered my time in the past

to work with the homeless. not give them change but donate clothing

and food items and devote free time to assist in programs to help them

improve their lives, get help and improve themselves --- not sustain a life

where you wake up on a bench to trek across town to wash yourself in

the library sink before sleeping on another bench.

i have never said anything harsh toward any other class, race or religion

of people on this site. you can look if you'd like, i would say if i have

been critical of any segment of people it has been against graffiti artists

or folks who tear down historic buildings --- yet it has never been as

bad as leaving them to die in the streets, etc... as some folks have said

about other segments of the population here on HAIF.

come to think of it, i have never personally attacked anyone on this site

other thana partial thread that was deleted when someone thought police

officersdeserved to die because of their profession.

[musicman]

Mark F. Barnes you better watch out otherwise your house will be

torched

1. colloq

To set fire to something deliberately.

LOL

[TJones]

Well, Torvald, did you feel threatened by the way the shaved-head dude was "checking you out" ? It's ok, everyone has some level of prejudice against something. I don't mind bums really, I just don't want them spittin' on my windshield trying to clean it, and then ask for a dollar for jackin' up my windshield. I am an equal opportunity bigot, I hate everyone equally. They are frequenting Govt. buildings because they are relatively safer than the Covenant House type places. Besides, I don't think I'd want to use the RR at the Library even if the bums WEREN'T gettin' ready for the Prom in there. People take books in there to read for awhile. BLEH !

I happened to see a little pot and kettle action goin' in your original post Torvald, it may have escaped you as you were writing it. Yes, Mark was very blunt, his word of the day is TACT . Sometimes he forgets to use it. He wasn't trying to be hurtful he was just stating the obvious.

Edited October 30, 2006 by TJones

[houstonsemipro]

The homeless wanna read books, too.

[Mark F. Barnes]

"A classic example of a hypocritical act is to criticize others for carrying

out some action while carrying out the same action oneself...."

the only action i suppose i considered that we both had at the library was

the need to go to the bathroom. all folks do it, so we all have it in common.

i was there to get books, they were not.

i am not sure what you are talking about so i am not exactly sure what to

address. do i really post so much about travesty and humiliation in other

threads? perhaps i am a more sensitive person than i thought! i basically

just write about what i see everyday whether it is while riding my bike,

going about houston or at work. i spend much time in transit and am

basically just writing what i observe.

by saying that i disliked the homeless using the library restroom as a

personal shower or rest stop is not discrimination. by saying that i didn't

like the fella leering at me was not due to him being homeless, it was that

i wasn't interested and it was pretty intense leering.

as i have written in other threads, i have volunteered my time in the past

to work with the homeless. not give them change but donate clothing

and food items and devote free time to assist in programs to help them

improve their lives, get help and improve themselves --- not sustain a life

where you wake up on a bench to trek across town to wash yourself in

the library sink before sleeping on another bench.

i have never said anything harsh toward any other class, race or religion

of people on this site. you can look if you'd like, i would say if i have

been critical of any segment of people it has been against graffiti artists

or folks who tear down historic buildings --- yet it has never been as

bad as leaving them to die in the streets, etc... as some folks have said

about other segments of the population here on HAIF.

come to think of it, i have never personally attacked anyone on this site

other thana partial thread that was deleted when someone thought police

officersdeserved to die because of their profession.

See this post http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...st&p=123309

Mark F. Barnes you better watch out otherwise your house will be

torched

1. colloq

To set fire to something deliberately.

LOL

Well it's a log home, at least you won't have to by a bunch of the high priced gasoline!

[torvald]

Well, Torvald, did you feel threatened by the way the shaved-head dude was "checking you out" ? It's ok, everyone has some level of prejudice against something...

I happened to see a little pot and kettle action goin' in your original post Torvald, it may have escaped you as you were writing it.

i'm grumpy. i mention a bit that i am grumpy or crotchety.

if i owned a store and you came in just to to use the bathroom and

switch out your digs, i would be annoyed. if six people in a row did

the same (plus taking my packaging), it would annoy me more.

i don't think i would spend my time helping out a segment of the

population i was prejudiced against. i wasn't feeling threatened,

just annoyed to be leered at with some major drooling intensity for

about 10 minutes by some fella that needed a good hosing down.

[TJones]

i'm grumpy. i mention a bit that i am grumpy or crotchety.

if i owned a store and you came in just to to use the bathroom and

switch out your digs, i would be annoyed. if six people in a row did

the same (plus taking my packaging), it would annoy me more.

i don't think i would spend my time helping out a segment of the

population i was prejudiced against. i wasn't feeling threatened,

just annoyed to be leered at with some major drooling intensity for

about 10 minutes by some fella that needed a good hosing down.

Maybe he was hoping you would follow him into the Washroom and sponge him off ? Kinda like a bad George Michael video thing.

The Library is kinda everyone's store. At least everyone who pays taxes. As long as they aren't taking a dump over the Dewey decimal card drawers, I don't mind them using my bathroom at the Library, now if they came knocking on my homestead door, I might have to tell them to shove off.

Edited October 30, 2006 by TJones

[Mark F. Barnes]

The Library is kinda everyone's store. At least everyone who pays taxes. As long as they aren't taking a dump over the Dewey decimal card drawers, I don't mind them using my bathroom at the Library, now if they came knocking on my homestead door, I might have to tell them to shove off.

My point exactly. And believe it or not, the majority of the Homeless are tax paying citizens. Statistically (53%) most of them are drawing a disability check and/or social security, it's not enough to live on if that's all you have. (That's a whole different argument) But they are taxed, neither are free income, so they have as much a right to "Public Facilities" as anyone else. Now it appears that them getting the free-bee plastic bags is an issue, I really don't know how to respond to that. Hey if it helps a homeless person be a little more "comfortable" so be it. Sounds to me like someone feels they just shouldn't be there. To that I ask "Why not?" Even rich people sometimes have to take their kids into a local vendor to use the restroom, with no intention of buying anything but some relief of a kids bladder. Sometimes even their own bladder.

Did you ever think he didn't like the way you were looking at him?

We'll have to ask 'isuredid' if he has these problems, I don't think all the people in this forum combined, spend more time in the library than he does.

[TJones]

We'll have to ask 'isuredid' if he has these problems, I don't think all the people in this forum combined, spend more time in the library than he does.

I have been meaning to ask.........what are these "Libraries, you speak of. I seem to vaguely remember that word, but I don't believe I have even been to a Library in about 10 years or more.

Edited October 30, 2006 by TJones

[torvald]

Did you ever think he didn't like the way you were looking at him?

We'll have to ask 'isuredid' if he has these problems, I don't think all the people in this forum combined, spend more time in the library than he does.

"isuredid" was not with me at the library today. again, you are taking

this very personally. i am not aware if it occurs everyday, only that it

happened today. if you would like to still ask isuredid, you may. i used

to spend much time at the downtown library. perhaps the size of it

diffused any impact the homeless people had there.

i was trying not to look at him as i alluded in the other thread where you

are lambasting me. i am trying to be respectful as to the condition he

was in while while leering at me. the polite thing to say would be that

he was a bit aroused. i was in the mood to check out a book, not deal

with that this morning.

first that, now i have mark f. barnes on my case.

[TJones]

"isuredid" was not with me at the library today. again, you are taking

this very personally. i am not aware if it occurs everyday, only that it

happened today. if you would like to still ask isuredid, you may. i used

to spend much time at the downtown library. perhaps the size of it

diffused any impact the homeless people had there.

i was trying not to look at him as i alluded in the other thread where you

are lambasting me. i am trying to be respectful as to the condition he

was in while while leering at me. the polite thing to say would be that

he was a bit aroused. i was in the mood to check out a book, not deal

with that this morning.

first that, now i have mark f. barnes on my case.

I guess I should ask a qualifying question Torvald. Are you male or female, this will help me determine what is right or wrong in this "arousal" situation.

[Gary]

This coming from a person who posts about the travesty of discrimination in other threads.

Here's a new term for you to learn:

Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have morals or virtues that one does not truly possess or practice. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. The word is arguably derived from hypo- meaning under, + krinein meaning to decide/to dispute.[citation needed]

A classic example of a hypocritical act is to criticize others for carrying out some action while carrying out the same action oneself. Some people believe that most people, if not all, are hypocrites; they tend to criticize what they perceive to be bad behaviour in others, yet will justify it when they are inclined to perform the same action. This form of hypocrisy is closely related to the fundamental attribution error, a well-studied phenomenon of human psychology: individuals are more likely to explain their own actions by their environment, yet they attribute the actions of others to 'innate characteristics', thus leading towards judging others while justifying ones' own actions.

Hypocrisy is a relative term, and its meaning depends on ones' moral beliefs. For instance, moral relativists often see moral absolutists as hypocrites when they follow the detail of certain prescribed moral codes while neglecting to follow the underlying ideas behind these moral codes. Similarly, absolutists view relative morality as inherently hypocritical because the rules are not always to be adhered to absolutely.

In simple terms the pot calling the kettle black!!!!

Man, you and TJ are on a roll today.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Man, you and TJ are on a roll today.

Gary it must be the weather, you know I am usually such a sweetheart!

TJ is arguing with the wifey about where all her tinfoil keeps going!!!!

Edited October 30, 2006 by Mark F. Barnes

[nmainguy]

"isuredid" was not with me at the library today. again, you are taking

this very personally. i am not aware if it occurs everyday, only that it

happened today. if you would like to still ask isuredid, you may. i used

to spend much time at the downtown library. perhaps the size of it

diffused any impact the homeless people had there.

i was trying not to look at him as i alluded in the other thread where you

are lambasting me. i am trying to be respectful as to the condition he

was in while while leering at me. the polite thing to say would be that

he was a bit aroused. i was in the mood to check out a book, not deal

with that this morning.

first that, now i have mark f. barnes on my case.

torvold,

You got creeped out at the library. barnes choose to twist into something else altogether.

I wouldn't worry too much about him-he seems to have issues on many levels.

nmg

..and remember, we'll always have Hulda

[torvald]

..and remember, we'll always have Hulda

true.

I guess I should ask a qualifying question Torvald. Are you male or female, this will help me determine what is right or wrong in this "arousal" situation.

it shouldn't matter... an unwanted arousal situation is

an unwanted arousal situation. if i answer that, folks

will either put a gay or feminist slant to it... either one

will be a whole another debate.

[Mark F. Barnes]

torvold,

You got creeped out at the library. barnes choose to twist into something else altogether.

I wouldn't worry too much about him-he seems to have issues on many levels.

nmg

..and remember, we'll always have Hulda

You damn right I have issues, I have Issues that the FDIC only insures $100k per account holder and $250K on my IRA's. I think that is a hell of an issue.

nmain I don't think I have ever attacked you personally, I read your views and agree with some and some I don't, but I have always respected them because you are a lot of thing but not a hypocrite, you stick to your guns. Let's not get personal on this, it's really not profitable for either of us. I just pointed out how the post appeared, didn't flame him or her, just made a point. I felt I had a valid point. If they were just "creeped out" just say I was creeped out. Instead it came to this:

since the downtown post office has been under renovation i had not

been to the library. so i went to my local branch in montrose. i arrived

15 minutes early and within 5 minutes there were abut 6 homeless fellas

lining up in front of the door. when the branch opened they filed into the

men's room and during the next half hour emerged --- some with wet hair

and one with a fresh gallon container of water. a few switched out their

items from their old plastic bags with new library bags (for books) and left.

i know they have set up recent ordinances as far as cleanliness and

behaviorin libraries, some aimed at keeping the locations from being a

destinationsimilar to covenant house (which is nearby and free). i would

feel less odd ifthey also used the library and were cleaning up in preparation

to look at books or use the computer.

in fairness, i suppose the only way it really affected me was not wanting to

usethe restroom there and getting the creeps when one fella with random

parts of his head shaved kept checking me out.

Now if they were to have said the blue highlighted section, hey I can see that. But the section in red gives the appearance of trying to search for authorities to rid the library of these people. I found that to be a little discriminatory and then it just snowballed from there.

"A classic example of a hypocritical act is to criticize others for carrying

out some action while carrying out the same action oneself...."

the only action i suppose i considered that we both had at the library was

the need to go to the bathroom. all folks do it, so we all have it in common.

i was there to get books, they were not.

i am not sure what you are talking about so i am not exactly sure what to

address. do i really post so much about travesty and humiliation in other

threads? perhaps i am a more sensitive person than i thought! i basically

just write about what i see everyday whether it is while riding my bike,

going about houston or at work. i spend much time in transit and am

basically just writing what i observe.

by saying that i disliked the homeless using the library restroom as a

personal shower or rest stop is not discrimination. by saying that i didn't

like the fella leering at me was not due to him being homeless, it was that

i wasn't interested and it was pretty intense leering.

as i have written in other threads, i have volunteered my time in the past

to work with the homeless. not give them change but donate clothing

and food items and devote free time to assist in programs to help them

improve their lives, get help and improve themselves --- not sustain a life

where you wake up on a bench to trek across town to wash yourself in

the library sink before sleeping on another bench.

i have never said anything harsh toward any other class, race or religion

of people on this site. you can look if you'd like, i would say if i have

been critical of any segment of people it has been against graffiti artists

or folks who tear down historic buildings --- yet it has never been as

bad as leaving them to die in the streets, etc... as some folks have said

about other segments of the population here on HAIF.

come to think of it, i have never personally attacked anyone on this site

other thana partial thread that was deleted when someone thought police

officersdeserved to die because of their profession.

Now Nmain I am sure you have been the victim of discrimination in your life at one time or another. And I am sure you have witnessed bigotry up close and personal. So have I, and I will tell you one thing, it's not the white sheet wearing bastids or the swastika wearing skinheads that I worry about, it's the smile in your face closet cases that pretend to not be, or are just stupid enough to not know they are that worry me. Those are the ones you have to watch out for. The KKK, no worries, you know where they come from, and I laugh them all the way back to the trailer park they stumbled out of. But the sweetheart, that tells you they are pro-gay, pro-black, pro-whatever and then there actions or words or body language tells you something different, that the ones I try and question to see where they are really coming from. Those that do not know me take my bluntness and forwardness as having an issue, well so be it. But I don't hide behind false names, I don't hide behind false pretence. If a person wants to know me or talk just pick up the phone, me numbers are easy to find. Most anyone that has been on this forum already know that. Some people say I am stupid for being so open, but I look at it like this, I don't go around making enemies, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I will not let paranoia rule my life. If a person wants to get me they will get me, when my time is up I will be ready. I have lived a full life and had enough fun doing it for a hundred people, and I have brought no harm to anyone. Every now and again I find one that takes my kindness for weakness and I deal with that when the time comes. But I sleep good at night knowing I helped everyone I possibly could. If that makes me have issues, so be it. If I am wrong I am the first to stand up and say so, and will do it publicly. I am man enough for that. So please don't slap me around too much, I am frail and weak and have a low threshold of pain.

By the way I am done with it nmain

[TJones]

it shouldn't matter... an unwanted arousal situation is

an unwanted arousal situation. if i answer that, folks

will either put a gay or feminist slant to it... either one

will be a whole another debate.

Only reason I ask is because there are 2 situations that would have occurred, especially if I had been there. Both would have resulted in the bum gettin' the BUMRUSH ! If you were a female, and I would have seen it, he would have been dealt with, if the bum was lookin' at ME like that, he would have been dealt with, especially if he is "drooling" and making it sexual. Then again I would have to assess the situation and see if the bum was indeed capable of looking away, and could stop his uncontrollable "drooling". Also, if you were a female I would immediately withdraw my "sponge him off" statement. If you are a male though, it stays up. No pun intended. I don't believe anyone here would put a "gay" spin on it, if you were male though. Except maybe a "he thought you looked pretty cute in those jeans."

BTW Gary, I copied Mark's headgear, I didn't think he'd mind, I don't quite have the budget like Mark, as you can see from this photo of him.

Edited October 31, 2006 by TJones

[torvald]

...see if the bum was indeed capable of looking away, and could stop his uncontrollable "drooling".

it wasn't as much drooling as just his mouth was really

wet the whole time. not sure how he did that. he wasn't

licking it or anything but it was all the way around, maybe

it was a chapstick sort of issue but it was obvious from afar.

Also, if you were a female I would immediately withdraw my "sponge him off" statement. If you are a male though, it stays up. No pun intended. I don't believe anyone here would put a "gay" spin on it, if you were male though. Except maybe a "he thought you looked pretty cute in those jeans."

i guess i just think that no matter what a lesbian, straight

female, straight or gay male would be grossed out.

it's always the ones you DON'T want...

Edited October 31, 2006 by torvald

[TJones]

it wasn't as much drooling as just his mouth was really

wet the whole time. not sure how he did that. he wasn't

licking it or anything but it was all the way around, maybe

it was a chapstick sort of issue but it was obvious from afar.

i guess i just think that no matter what a lesbian, straight

female, straight or gay male would be grossed out.

it's always the ones you DON'T want...

Oh, you are correct, I think ANYONE would be put off by some "moist" bum. I am sure there is a fetish site somewhere though. ((CHILLS !))

Sorry you had to go through something like that, it is just part of the experience of life though, you just gotta say,"Thank God, that ain't me.", and move on to the next thing. It may have been the first time you were put in that position, but hopefully, it will be the last.

Real quick, did he look like this guy ?

Edited October 31, 2006 by TJones

[Mark F. Barnes]

All right you see that Gary? The gloves are off now!!

[houstonmacbro]

since the downtown post office has been under renovation i had not

been to the library. so i went to my local branch in montrose. i arrived

15 minutes early and within 5 minutes there were abut 6 homeless fellas

lining up in front of the door. when the branch opened they filed into the

men's room and during the next half hour emerged --- some with wet hair

and one with a fresh gallon container of water. a few switched out their

items from their old plastic bags with new library bags (for books) and left.

i know they have set up recent ordinances as far as cleanliness and

behaviorin libraries, some aimed at keeping the locations from being a

destinationsimilar to covenant house (which is nearby and free). i would

feel less odd ifthey also used the library and were cleaning up in preparation

to look at books or use the computer.

in fairness, i suppose the only way it really affected me was not wanting to

usethe restroom there and getting the creeps when one fella with random

parts of his head shaved kept checking me out.

in all fairness, the homeless using the restrooms affects me about the same as the people at the gym in the morning that shave and do other personal hygiene type things in PUBLIC.

i don't care if they rode a skateboard to the library or a BMW ... some things shouldn't be done in public, like shaving (heads, face or pubs), clipping toenails, etc.

[TJones]

in all fairness, the homeless using the restrooms affects me about the same as the people at the gym in the morning that shave and do other personal hygiene type things in PUBLIC.

i don't care if they rode a skateboard to the library or a BMW ... some things shouldn't be done in public, like shaving (heads, face or pubs), clipping toenails, etc.

Probably why they do THOSE things there at the Gym, because they know someone else is gonna come clean it up. After all, isn't that why they pay their dues. I mean, that's why I got marrried, ,AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ! ACK! OUCH! hi honey, hey hey, put that frying pan down, I was just kidding. YIKES ! ! !

Edited October 31, 2006 by TJones

[Gary]

Real quick, did he look like this guy ?

Now that's one handsome dude!

[gto250us]

Probably why they do THOSE things there at the Gym, because they know someone else is gonna come clean it up. After all, isn't that why they pay their dues. I mean, that's why I got marrried, ,AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ! ACK! OUCH! hi honey, hey hey, put that frying pan down, I was just kidding. YIKES ! ! !

Why should we continue to kill our young adults in Iraq, when we can round up all the homeless and send them off to be murdered by the maniacs. As long s Bush is unwilling to stop the murder, we can clean up our cities and supply the Iraqi nut jobs with less costly targets.