METRORail Red Line

[Ross]

A few supposed non-existent entities, according to you, off the top of my head:

 

2004 Post Midtown

2005 Tacos A Go Go, Julia's Bistro

2007 Reef

 

How did you live in Midtown during this period and not notice these openings?

 

We moved out in 2004 for a house with a real yard and no strange people walking by. Having a kid changed our perspective on how much weirdness we were wiling to tolerate, plus schools are a real issue in that part of town.

 

We still go to Midtown frequently, and I just don't see any real rail oriented development there.

 

[Nole23]

It took a few years for development to really occur along the rail line but there has been a lot of development and new retail over the years along the line from downtown to the museum district. These things just don't happen over night and the recession obviously didn't help. The next few years we will see many of the larger projects along main finally come to life.

 

MATCH

Mid-Main mixed use

Superblock park

Camden Apartments

Broadstone Midtown

Alexan Midtown

Alliance Apartments Downtown

Skyhouse Apartments

JW Marriot downtown

Holiday Inn (old Savoy building)

 

[kylejack]

We moved out in 2004 for a house with a real yard and no strange people walking by. Having a kid changed our perspective on how much weirdness we were wiling to tolerate, plus schools are a real issue in that part of town.

 

We still go to Midtown frequently, and I just don't see any real rail oriented development there.

 

 

Well, it's difficult to discuss this since you keep moving the goal posts.

 

Let's get on the same page. What's "real development", as opposed to fake development?

[HoustonIsHome]

The light rail in Midtown has been there for a long time. If anything, it hindered development. I do know that the light rail construction through Midtown did nothing to help development there. How do I know?

  

The light rail opened in January 2004. Here we are 10 years later, and we are just now getting some development. The recession didn't hit until 2008, what was going on between 2004 and then?

You are looking at things too narrowly to make a judgement.

There have been lots of articles on this, but the consensus is that the slower development along the red line was due to a number of interrelated factors but the main one was that speculators expecting skyrocketing land values sat on the land along the rail. Now if developers can't by land how do you expect development to go up? The second factor was parking requirements. The city requires two parking lots per unit. The problem with that is that town homes would be the cheapest to provide parking for but offer less units to make a profit on. High rises would yield the most units for a more profitable land use but building taller is more costly upfront and more of a gamble. A midrise apartment is middle ground between the two that's why most of the development that had occured since 2004 has been 4to 6 floor complexes. And quite a few conpkexes have give up.

So no the rail has not hindered development, the true hindrances were

1. Speculators

2. City parking codes

3. Cost of building materials

The hope for the new lines is that owners will be more inclined to sell for a lower price and not sit and wait for higher prices like the owners in midtown did. Also building prices are rather low so now it's a good time to build.

I hope that as Houston becomes more transit oriented the city becomes less restictive in their parking codes.

It would be nice if builders could focus on residential with ground retail for their developments and have separate buildings with paid parking. That would encourage a more pedestrian friendly midtown because it would be cheaper/more profitable for builders and would encourage more residents to take public transportation to avoid parking fees

[IronTiger]

It's difficult to say what development was "encouraged" by the light rail and what developments occurred in the inner loop simply because land value has been so high. Businesses closing due to the light rail would be easier to guess at.

[mfastx]

I will be traveling the entire length of the extension tomorrow.  Looking forward to see how many people are riding, how fast it goes, etc.

[Slick Vik]

You are looking at things too narrowly to make a judgement.

There have been lots of articles on this, but the consensus is that the slower development along the red line was due to a number of interrelated factors but the main one was that speculators expecting skyrocketing land values sat on the land along the rail. Now if developers can't by land how do you expect development to go up? The second factor was parking requirements. The city requires two parking lots per unit. The problem with that is that town homes would be the cheapest to provide parking for but offer less units to make a profit on. High rises would yield the most units for a more profitable land use but building taller is more costly upfront and more of a gamble. A midrise apartment is middle ground between the two that's why most of the development that had occured since 2004 has been 4to 6 floor complexes. And quite a few conpkexes have give up.

So no the rail has not hindered development, the true hindrances were

1. Speculators

2. City parking codes

3. Cost of building materials

The hope for the new lines is that owners will be more inclined to sell for a lower price and not sit and wait for higher prices like the owners in midtown did. Also building prices are rather low so now it's a good time to build.

I hope that as Houston becomes more transit oriented the city becomes less restictive in their parking codes.

It would be nice if builders could focus on residential with ground retail for their developments and have separate buildings with paid parking. That would encourage a more pedestrian friendly midtown because it would be cheaper/more profitable for builders and would encourage more residents to take public transportation to avoid parking fees

Parking requirements increased for apartments recently. More guest parking is required, mandatory.

[Moore713]

It's difficult to say what development was "encouraged" by the light rail and what developments occurred in the inner loop simply because land value has been so high. Businesses closing due to the light rail would be easier to guess at.

are you could list the number of projects that have sighted the rail as why they are developing there.

[infinite_jim]

are you could list the number of projects that have sighted the rail as why they are developing there.

cited

 

sited

sighted

 

edit:

My bolding.

 

just like:

 

there 

 

their

they're

Edited December 27, 2013 by infinite_jim

[Moore713]

cited

sited

sighted

 

there 

their

they're

Hey smart ass 

 

there   [thair; unstressed ther]  Show IPA

adverb

1.

in or at that place (opposed to here ): 

 

 

Since I was talking about a place  the spelling( There) applies. See what trying to be a smart ass gets you now we were both wrong ,huh ?

 

Edited December 27, 2013 by Moore713

[Howard Huge]

Alright, let it go guys, lets talk about the red line

[HoustonIsHome]

Parking requirements increased for apartments recently. More guest parking is required, mandatory.

Darnit.

I hate visitors.

Nowhere for them to park is a good thing

[j_cuevas713]

This line alone opens up the door for more people to travel downtown, which only means one thing... we can expect more businesses to begin popping up

[Slick Vik]

Darnit.

I hate visitors.

Nowhere for them to park is a good thing

Parking requirements make it difficult to make walkable areas.

[IronTiger]

Parking requirements make it difficult to make walkable areas.

Oh boy, here we go again...

[Slick Vik]

Oh boy, here we go again...

 

Nothing to talk about. If businesses have all kind of parking requirements, it makes it extremely to have a walkable area. Period.

[august948]

Parking requirements make it difficult to make walkable areas.

 

Didn't the city loosen the parking requirements?

 

[Slick Vik]

Didn't the city loosen the parking requirements?

 

 

They did in some ways, but also made it worse in others. Now side by side businesses can share parking, and apartments can get reductions in parking requirements if built near light rail stops, and they can also exchange parking for bike parking, up to a certain percentage. However, there is an additional amount of guest parking that was made mandatory for apartments, so even with reductions it ends up being a wash if those even come into play.

[august948]

They did in some ways, but also made it worse in others. Now side by side businesses can share parking, and apartments can get reductions in parking requirements if built near light rail stops, and they can also exchange parking for bike parking, up to a certain percentage. However, there is an additional amount of guest parking that was made mandatory for apartments, so even with reductions it ends up being a wash if those even come into play.

 

Assuming the kind of redevelopment needed or wanted along the line is ground floor retail with apartments above, doesn't the extra guest parking also serve as extra parking for the businesses?  Or, since these are larger projects with, presumably, garage parking, how many extra spaces do they really need to have and couldn't they be dual-purposed?  Seems like having both extra parking tucked behind or under the building and rail service in front would be ideal, wouldn't it?

 

[mfastx]

Just got back from traveling the length of the extension.  I thought it was pretty nice.. the elevated portions were nice and reminded me of transit in other cities.  Too bad we couldn't do more grade separations here. 

 

Was on a two car train that was about half full on the way up, and was on a completely full one car train on the way back.  Decent ridership right now, hopefully it keeps up.

[IronTiger]

Assuming the kind of redevelopment needed or wanted along the line is ground floor retail with apartments above, doesn't the extra guest parking also serve as extra parking for the businesses? Or, since these are larger projects with, presumably, garage parking, how many extra spaces do they really need to have and couldn't they be dual-purposed? Seems like having both extra parking tucked behind or under the building and rail service in front would be ideal, wouldn't it?

It sure would, but by no means having minimum parking the enemy of walkable areas (it just depends on where it's placed). I think that parking should deal with what's available (decent on-street parking versus not, etc.) Shared parking is an idea that they should've done a long time ago, but apartments guest parking are a different beast altogether: especially since large garden apartment complexes aren't particularly known for adding to a walkable neighborhood.

Just got back from traveling the length of the extension. I thought it was pretty nice.. the elevated portions were nice and reminded me of transit in other cities. Too bad we couldn't do more grade separations here.

I kind of wish there was some spare ROW instead of having to lobotomize normal roads and spare businesses only to let them slowly suffer as they become harder to access.

[mfastx]

I kind of wish there was some spare ROW instead of having to lobotomize normal roads and spare businesses only to let them slowly suffer as they become harder to access.

 

Well, you have less ridership when you run trains in old ROW cause that's not where the people are. 

 

What you describe are short term problems that resolve themselves long before the rail line becomes obsolete. 

 

I wish the rail were in a subway in high traffic areas like the TMC though, and hopefully the consider separating portions of the line when they become a bigger problem.

[Howard Huge]

Well, you have less ridership when you run trains in old ROW cause that's not where the people are.

What you describe are short term problems that resolve themselves long before the rail line becomes obsolete.

I wish the rail were in a subway in high traffic areas like the TMC though, and hopefully the consider separating portions of the line when they become a bigger problem.

I wish ALL the lines were subway, but hey, when youre in a city as anti-rail as Houston, you take what you can get.

[IronTiger]

Well, you have less ridership when you run trains in old ROW cause that's not where the people are.

Not NECESSARILY old railroad ROW, though if it were up to me, the light rail on Harrisburg would go up Milby and on the old ROW (remember, that was originally supposed to be a highway at one time), cross the railroad with an elevated platform (no expensive underpasses), there's ample ROW where there is a railroad (no spurs!), take out the Sonic (now closed anyway) and two other buildings, and you're at the transit center. Harrisburg Blvd. is improved with sidewalks etc., and the light rail is not very far away from commercial businesses.

[kylejack]

Not NECESSARILY old railroad ROW, though if it were up to me, the light rail on Harrisburg would go up Milby and on the old ROW (remember, that was originally supposed to be a highway at one time), cross the railroad with an elevated platform (no expensive underpasses), there's ample ROW where there is a railroad (no spurs!), take out the Sonic (now closed anyway) and two other buildings, and you're at the transit center. Harrisburg Blvd. is improved with sidewalks etc., and the light rail is not very far away from commercial businesses.

 

Where? The existing railroad that's still in use?

[mfastx]

I wish ALL the lines were subway, but hey, when youre in a city as anti-rail as Houston, you take what you can get.

 

Agreed, or at least in a subway in downtown/TMC/other higher traffic areas and elevated elsewhere.  Would cost a lot more, but would be more useful over a longer period of time.

 

EDIT: 1,000 posts, yeah!

Edited December 29, 2013 by mfastx

[Howard Huge]

Burnett station at around 2 am, man i am so in love with this station!

[citykid09]

Burnett station makes it look like a heavy rail or at least a true grade separate rail system.

[theoriginalkj]

Houston Metro Rail - Red Line video (from north terminus to downtown)

 

I recorded this HD video of the new Metro Rail Red line going from it's Northline Mall terminus into downtown Houston, sped up by a factor of 4X to make it more interesting... Enjoy...

 

[bachanon]

thanks for sharing this!  excellent post.