Highway 288

[lockmat]

I agree 1stWord. Anyone know the success of Nashville's train that started last year? I thought it was kind of funny since there were no rail services in town, although the train does drop commuters in downtown Nashville.

They just opened a commuter train here in Albuquerque too, and all we have in the city are buses.

[plumber2]

TXDOT should move to complete State Highway 35 from UofH to Angleton first. The by-pass around Alvin has been in place since the 60's. 288 can wait.

[TheNiche]

Toll roads are absolutley stupid IMO. Just another excessive goverment revenue venture, which in this case, impedes the free use of the automobile, an American icon.

Psst...without HCTRA, we wouldn't even have the toll roads that we do. Tolled roads are better than none at all.

And frankly, if we just did away with TXDoT altogether and taxed only the users of the roads, that would be ideal.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Psst...without HCTRA, we wouldn't even have the toll roads that we do. Tolled roads are better than none at all.

Pssst, thats bullocks! Quoting my British friends

Toll roads are STUPID. Theres nothing today or tomorrow which will lead me to believe otherwise, period!

[CDeb]

Ditto, what's the point of paying property taxes and raising them for that matter, if we still have to pay tolls on almost every NEW freeway built.

Because your property taxes don't pay for freeways, the gas tax does. And the revenue provided by that tax doesn't even come close to keeping up with roadway demand.

So, would you rather have the gas taxed significantly raised to pay for new roads that you may or may not drive on? Or would you rather pay for only the roads that you drive on?

Toll roads are STUPID. Theres nothing today or tomorrow which will lead me to believe otherwise, period!

WOW! What devastatingly convincing logic!

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

WOW! What devastatingly convincing logic!

Yes it is, isnt it

[westguy]

The revenue from the gas tax goes to $250 million bridges in Alaska that connect towns with only fifty people. Texans don't get back what they pay in taxes for roadbuilding.

This is less about alleviating traffic congestion, and more about collecting taxes. Although new lanes will be added, the toll road will take up more space than lanes added to the existing roadway. There will be less room for future expansion of 288, resulting in a net loss of lanes.

[lockmat]

The revenue from the gas tax goes to $250 million bridges in Alaska that connect towns with only fifty people. Texans don't get back what they pay in taxes for roadbuilding.

This is less about alleviating traffic congestion, and more about collecting taxes. Although new lanes will be added, the toll road will take up more space than lanes added to the existing roadway. There will be less room for future expansion of 288, resulting in a net loss of lanes.

I'm no expert, maybe y'all are, but I'm sure it's both. Although from reading transportation books, traffic reduction is the main reason, as the article points out.

[musicman]

I'm no expert, maybe y'all are, but I'm sure it's both. Although from reading transportation books, traffic reduction is the main reason, as the article points out.

LOL

100 people......build a 250 million bridge....i would say it would be cheaper to give everyone 1 million dollars to relocate. they could save 150 million!

Edited February 23, 2007 by musicman

[Trae]

TXDOT should move to complete State Highway 35 from UofH to Angleton first. The by-pass around Alvin has been in place since the 60's. 288 can wait.

Yeah, just add an extra lane, maybe HOV, for 288 for now and complete Texas 35. What about those trees in the middle?

Edited February 23, 2007 by Trae

[northbeaumont]

And a new Lowe's, Fingers, Macy's, and Dillard's to just name the big ones and nothing to say of the other 200+ stores going in between beltway8 and Southfork.

288 is nearly a clean slate right now as was said. There is time to make 288 work right for Houston for 50 years. But that time is running short.

Many years ago there was a Finger's furniture store here in Beaumont on the corner of IH-10 and North Seventh Street. All abandoned and boarded up now. Here, Dillard's became Foley's, and Foley's became Macy's. In Houston on IH-610, I remember a Levitz furniture store. But someone on this forum told me that it closed down long ago.

[marmer]

I can tell you this much: there are no stop signs/lights between Houston and Lake Jackson/Clute. Once 288 becomes 332, there are a few lights heading toward Freeport, however.

This is true, and it has been this way for at least ten years. There are a few crossings in Brazoria County where there's still a flashing yellow light. FM ?1462? to Rosharon, maybe.

[Houston19514]

Many years ago there was a Finger's furniture store here in Beaumont on the corner of IH-10 and North Seventh Street. All abandoned and boarded up now. Here, Dillard's became Foley's, and Foley's became Macy's. In Houston on IH-610, I remember a Levitz furniture store. But someone on this forum told me that it closed down long ago.

There used to be two Dillards in the Beaumont. Did one of those become Foley's?

[Houston19514]

Many years ago there was a Finger's furniture store here in Beaumont on the corner of IH-10 and North Seventh Street. All abandoned and boarded up now. Here, Dillard's became Foley's, and Foley's became Macy's. In Houston on IH-610, I remember a Levitz furniture store. But someone on this forum told me that it closed down long ago.

There used to be two Dillards in the Beaumont. Did one of those become Foley's?

[Justin]

Foley's was Montgomery Ward before they went bankrupt.

The story about Dillards is that one of them had the roof fall in during Rita and instead of rebuilding that one they decided to expand the other one and have it all under one roof. Then again, they were both at Parkdale anyway.

[jt16]

Foley's was Montgomery Ward before they went bankrupt.

The story about Dillards is that one of them had the roof fall in during Rita and instead of rebuilding that one they decided to expand the other one and have it all under one roof. Then again, they were both at Parkdale anyway.

I grew up in Beaumont. If I recall correctly, Dillard's didn't exactly want two stores at Parkdale, but they bought somebody out and assumed the lease. I always thought it was odd to have a men's Dillards and a women's Dillards in one mall.

[marmer]

I grew up in Beaumont. If I recall correctly, Dillard's didn't exactly want two stores at Parkdale, but they bought somebody out and assumed the lease. I always thought it was odd to have a men's Dillards and a women's Dillards in one mall.

Dillard's at Brazos Mall in Lake Jackson was the exact same way for a while. They took over the old Beall's location and had their men's clothes there. I think they're back in their old original location now.

[ssullivan]

The reason why there were two Dillard's stores in Parkdale Mall in Beaumont had nothing to do with Foley's. It was because Dillard's bought the Joske's chain several months after they opened the Dillard's store in Beaumont. After closing the Joske's store, which had a much more visible location on the front end of the mall, Dillard's renovated the first floor, closed the second floor, and moved the men's and children's departments to that store, keeping the rest at the other store. That situation continued until Rita damaged the original Dillard's store, at which point they reopened the second floor of the old Joske's and moved everything in there. They're now expanding that store's footprint, since it really was too small to house all of the departments.

There were quite a few malls with two Dillard's in this type of setup after they bought Joske's, including a few in the Houston area. I don't know of any that are left at this point.

[marmer]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but the second Dillards in Brazos Mall appeared many years after the Joske's/Dillards transition. I think it was just a local expansion based on the sudden availability of new space.

[Trae]

So 288...how far into construction is it?

[JLWM8609]

So 288...how far into construction is it?

They've completed the construction of overpasses between FM 517 and SH 6. So, 288 is now a full freeway from downtown to Highway 6. From SH 6 to SH 332, it's still a mix of divided four lane highway and freeway.

Edited August 14, 2007 by JLWM8609

[Timnwendy]

I found the next article from the Chronicle in early November. They mention the project to add toll lanes to 288 is one of six projects still being considered for 2008. I used bold blue text on the part related to 288, for easy reference.

From: Houston Chronicle

Date: Wed 11/07/2007

Section: B

Page: 1 MetFront

Edition: 3 STAR

Toll road profits used on streets / $120 million to be spent on `connectivity' projects next year

By RAD SALLEE

Staff

Harris County will spend an unprecedented amount of its toll road profits next year to build and upgrade roads and streets, some of them miles from any toll booth.

Call it the third stage of evolution for the Harris County Toll Road Authority, an evolution driven by the struggle to survive.

When voters and County Judge Jon Lindsay began the toll road system in 1983, the idea was simple: We'll build this road, and when it has paid for itself, we'll make it a freeway.

As other toll roads followed, the tempting revenue stream begat another idea: When these are paid off, we'll keep on tolling them and pool the money to build more toll roads.

Starting in 2001, Commissioners Court set aside $20 million paid by toll road users each year to build and improve roads and streets that connect to the tollway system. These annual allocations have helped build more than 80 such "connectivity" projects.

[satriela]

I heard that toll roads usually never get "untolled" that is, even after they are supposed to become free, they stay toll roads.

[TheNiche]

I heard that toll roads usually never get "untolled" that is, even after they are supposed to become free, they stay toll roads.

You heard correctly.

[fromsc2tx]

You heard correctly.

There ouught to be a law......

[houstonmacbro]

You heard correctly.

So what happens to all the money. You can't tell me it costs more to operate the BW8 than they take in.

[TheNiche]

So what happens to all the money. You can't tell me it costs more to operate the BW8 than they take in.

Some parts of the Beltway have been reconstructed and have new debt associated with them, so in certain stretches, it is entirely possible that tolls are in line with expenses. On the whole, though, you're right. Operating costs are well below revenues. HCTRA takes the surplus money and puts it toward more rapid system expansion. Doesn't really bother me too much.

[houstonmacbro]

Some parts of the Beltway have been reconstructed and have new debt associated with them, so in certain stretches, it is entirely possible that tolls are in line with expenses. On the whole, though, you're right. Operating costs are well below revenues. HCTRA takes the surplus money and puts it toward more rapid system expansion. Doesn't really bother me too much.

Is there any website or report they issue that shows what comes in and what goes out (and where)?

To me it feels like the lottery. You know they are making a LOT of money off the public, but where does the surplus money actually go. I know you told me generally, but are there any specifics?

[CDeb]

Is there any website or report they issue that shows what comes in and what goes out (and where)?

To me it feels like the lottery. You know they are making a LOT of money off the public, but where does the surplus money actually go. I know you told me generally, but are there any specifics?

Well, for instance, since HCTRA has a lot of extra cash on hand due to toll collections on the Sam, the construction of the Hardy extension will be accelerated, as I don't believe they will be selling bonds for the project.

[houstonmacbro]

Well, for instance, since HCTRA has a lot of extra cash on hand due to toll collections on the Sam, the construction of the Hardy extension will be accelerated, as I don't believe they will be selling bonds for the project.

Gotcha. And that makes a lot of sense (especially for me since I live on near 1960/I45); it will be nice to have an option in getting downtown.