Montrose1100 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Story:As I drove up to fill up today, where I always do... (The Chevron on the South West Corner of Dallas St. @ Montrose Blvd.) I saw (out of the corner of my eye) a man and a woman fighting and I thought perhaps it was a bad break up? I looked up to see him grabbing at her while she was in her car, and I froze. She had been screaming for help, the man was robbing her. I blinked and he was running off around the back of the store. She got up, and screamed for help again. I didn't even know what was going on. I got out, as everyone else in the gas station did, even people from the street walked up. They all talked about the discription and what the get-a-way car looked liked. Apparently, this man and his girlfriend had been asking for gas money around the station previously. Well she got the car, and drove around the back to wait for the man. I just can't believe it was right there, infront of my eyes. And worst of all, I didn't even think to pull up and follow in my own vehicle. (Which later I realize could have been dangerous, but perhaps If I could have written down the plate #). I felt terrible, I could have helped her, but I didn't move.Question: ...Is crime getting worse in Montrose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rps324 Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 A similiar thing happened to me about 2 months ago on Taft. I was driving to meet someone at a restaurant and witnessed a car pull up & a guy pop out and push a woman on her bike to the ground. He snatched her purse and she was screaming her head off. I pulled up and tried to block him in with my car and was screaming at the guy and calling him everything but something good to eat. I thought I got his license number but apparently in the rush I got a digit off or something. I don't know if they ever were able to match it up off a partial plate or if anyone even tried. Probably not. Of course afterwards I was thinking how easy he could have pulled a gun out and shot the whole lot of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Well, according to Crime stats here are the following for the montrose:For March of 06 there has been approx 85 instances of crime including four (4) DUI's.March of 05 there was 120 instances of crime including NINETEEN (19!) DUI's.Jan of 06 100-110 instances of crime including two (2) DUI'sJan of 05 125 instance of crime with 7 DUI's.The reason why SOME people like to exclude these as true crime (even though I think it is). So I thought some of you might like to seperate that.I just did a rough count according to the HPD crime stats and didn't break it down any further. The thing that jumps out at me is the relatively low amounts of rape that are reported, yet a huge amount of theft of a vehicle that occurs.In regards to people thinking that montrose crime is much higher I think is just a matter of perception. If you witness it or are a victime, it's high. If you're not a victim or see it happening, it's a safe area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torvald Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 as a bike everywhere sort, i worry about being thieved.if i have anything with my rear basket it's groceries. thetwo fellas i've known that have been mugged while bikinghad pretty fancy bikes. one thief actually took his bike at gunpoint, the other was pushed over by a few guys after riding to a corner store and retuning the exact same way. i always try to go round the other way when running errands (especially within the first few blocks) as someone can justconveniently wait for you to ride right by again with whatever you just went out for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovehouse Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 I think crime has been on the rise in the whole city as well as the past year in The Montrose. I just heard of a friend of a friend getting mugged near Rudyards just a couple of weeks ago! The first time I lived in The Montrose in '91, I felt safe enough to walk the neighboods at night, go out, etc. When I moved back in '04 I still felt safe up until about September of last year...today, not so safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 When I moved back in '04 I still felt safe up until about September of last year...today, not so safe.Didn't something happen last September? I can't put my finger on it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Didn't something happen last September? I can't put my finger on it..Crime stats can be misleading. The influx of Katrina evacuees coincided with a fairly sharp rise in crime in certain parts of Houston, most notably the southwest side. As a result, police patrols have been diverted to the new hot spots. As crime reports generally come from two sources, 1) victims and 2) police on patrol, having fewer police in an area results in fewer reports of crime, especially of the 'victimless' nature (i.e. prostitution, public indecency, drug use, DWI, etc.). The best and most meaningful indicators of the true crime rate as it concerns most people are Type 1 crimes, as categorized in the UCR stats--these include murder, rape, robbery, arson, etc.I don't know what's available on the HPD website, but if you're interested in a month-by-month or year-by-year statistical breakdown of crime statistics, call the HPD Records Division and request that reports be created and mailed to you. They'll charge you a fee, but if you're really interested, its probably worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Niche, Actually, I got my information from the city website and they have not only the amount of crimes in a particular neighborhood and the type of crime, but they give the address and the TIME the crime was reported. And this was done free.I might look over the information in the next few days and do a bit more analysis for the past couple years if I have time.God, I need a hobby.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 (edited) Montrose1100 -- recall the brutal murders in the townhouse off Leverkuhn, just around the corner from you over the holidays. That area -- on the line between the West End and Montrose has been neglected for decades and has rapidly gentrified over the past 6-7 years. Crime is a natural byproduct of this rapid influx of new money into very poor neighborhoods. Its the same situation on the eastern edge of Montrose, too, near 4th Ward. I used to always run into drug dealers and thugs going to and from Emo's. Now, that's a respectable, though still a little dicey neighborhood. I once was almost mugged by a cracked-out tranny at the Westheimer Street Festival in 1989. The poor little thing tried to strong-arm rob me, but I was able to throw her off me pretty easily.Bottom line -- I think crime is in line with the numbers of new people coming into the area, which is to say it is on the rise, but not necessarily getting worse...if that makes any sense.It's nowhere near levels in the late 80s, where every city had rampant crime and Houston was the murder capital. Back then, The Guardian Angels roamed the streets of Montrose, there were gay bashings, prostitutes getting beaten up, drug use, robberies and such every day. Edited May 29, 2006 by dalparadise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torvald Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 God, I need a hobby..oh no --- don't say that! the reason i love this site is that everyone here has a healthy curiosity for things (now don't be nasty). whether it's sevfiv researching and photographing houston, groovehouse cataloging art cars, music and everything else, tasteful & distasteful cultural debates, folks sympathizing with the hunt for hulda or others simply curious as to what the two land depressions are at addicks resevior --- the group here at HAIF are like a bunch of investigative reporters and part-time historians.it's so much better than just driving around with the blinders on to all ofthe character that houston has both culturally or architecturally. i know i'mgetting goopy but i remember when i first found this site someone had a query about something pretty random and another person (and i've seen this a few times) said --- i'll have to drive out there and see what that could be --- and the next day they'd report back on what they saw! i was really surprised by that and i think that's when i went from a lurker to a posting torvald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 (edited) It's nowhere near levels in the late 80s, where every city had rampant crime and Houston was the murder capital. Back then, The Guardian Angels roamed the streets of Montrose, there were gay bashings, prostitutes getting beaten up, drug use, robberies and such every day. ahhh, the late eighties. i didn't realize how bad crime was in montrose then. guess i was too naive. Edited May 29, 2006 by bachanon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Crime is a natural byproduct of this rapid influx of new money into very poor neighborhoods.This is not true, but it is a statement that is indicative of the tendency to create staistics out of anecdotes. Crime is largely ignored in poor neighborhoods. As they gentrify, the crime is noticed by those who previously had ignored it. The crime is then anecdotally repeated, giving the appearance of a crime wave. In most cases, crime is actually dropping in gentrified areas, as the socioeconomic makeup of the neighborhood changes for the better.In the West End area that dalparadise mentioned, there have only been three incidences of murder in the area from Studemont to Loop 610 and I-10 to Buffalo Bayou in over 2 years. Two of those murders occurred in the decidedly NON-gentrified area around Center Street. In fact, the murder that dalparadise mentions is the ONLY murder in a gentrified area that I am aware of in that neighborhood since I moved there in 1999. And no one knows the circumstances of that murder...it could have been a known assailant.The point here is simple. Anecdotal evidence does not create a crime wave. And, gentrification lowers crime rates, not increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Here is a link to crime stats in one part of the Montrose (mine)You can easily navigate to see other areas of town.I wish somone (not me) would make a mash up google earth site with this information mapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm1fd Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 I wish somone (not me) would make a mash up google earth site with this information mapped.LOL They have....its called the ABC 13 Exclusive CRIME TRACKER. LOL Its so funny...it says © Google Maps 2006 down in the corner every time they display it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) This is not true, but it is a statement that is indicative of the tendency to create staistics out of anecdotes. Crime is largely ignored in poor neighborhoods. As they gentrify, the crime is noticed by those who previously had ignored it. The crime is then anecdotally repeated, giving the appearance of a crime wave. In most cases, crime is actually dropping in gentrified areas, as the socioeconomic makeup of the neighborhood changes for the better.In the West End area that dalparadise mentioned, there have only been three incidences of murder in the area from Studemont to Loop 610 and I-10 to Buffalo Bayou in over 2 years. Two of those murders occurred in the decidedly NON-gentrified area around Center Street. In fact, the murder that dalparadise mentions is the ONLY murder in a gentrified area that I am aware of in that neighborhood since I moved there in 1999. And no one knows the circumstances of that murder...it could have been a known assailant.The point here is simple. Anecdotal evidence does not create a crime wave. And, gentrification lowers crime rates, not increases.I understand your point and agree. What I meant to illustrate was that new, more affluent people moving into a poor area "get to" experience crime firsthand. Sure, it could be the crime that was already there. Ask the people in Midtown trying to erradicate the prostitutes. No one reallyever cared much about "Boys' Town" until $300k townhouses went up. Now, it's a prostitution hotspot.You're right, that West End neighborhood was really poor, though not really all that violent. I moved in in 2001 and lived very close to where the murders took place. You're also right to point out that no one knows the circumstances of that crime.Now, the 4th Ward, over by EMO's, at the edge of Montrose -- that was a crime-ridden area and violent with robberies, if not murder. Some people moved in and found themselves in the middle of a tough neighborhood...but they had granite countertops.My point was exactly yours -- anecdotal evidence is not indicative of worsening crime. I thought it was curious that Montrose1100 was so disturbed by this robbery that happened a few miles from his townhouse, when those brutal murders happened 300 yards from it. He's clearly a result of the gentrification in that neighborhood, witnessing the kinds of goings-on that have happened there for some time.It's "tree falling in the woods" logic. Crime is only a problem when certain people see it and make it a problem. The fact that reported crimes are up is an indication that people are moving into a neighborhood and expecting police response. That's why I said it wasn't really getting worse, though I realize I was, as I am now, rambling... Edited May 30, 2006 by dalparadise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Niche, Actually, I got my information from the city website and they have not only the amount of crimes in a particular neighborhood and the type of crime, but they give the address and the TIME the crime was reported. And this was done free.I might look over the information in the next few days and do a bit more analysis for the past couple years if I have time.God, I need a hobby..As per the city's website that you were most likely referencing:The data presented in these reports is NOT the official Crime Statistics for the Houston Police Department. This data is being provided prior to the release of the Department's Official Monthly Uniform Crime Report. For information on requesting UCR data and other reports, please see our Public Information page.And my post primarily concerned the data collection methods and the limitations that must necessarily be considered in performing an analysis of the official UCR data...not the fact that the data exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureAuteur Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 http://www.click2houston.com/news/9339563/detail.htmlYou can chalk up murder #4 for the west end. Teenage girl killed a teenage illegal immigrant gang member a couple days ago in the Montrose Park. I didn't realize that Lamar H.S. had gotten so bad. I thought it was a good school, then I hear about a confrontation in the park with teens wearing clothing with Lamar insignia.Alot of people may worry that Montrose is no longer safe, but I can guarantee that it's still very safe. The community has not changed. The problem is the same problem that you can have anywhere in the Houston area or suburbs. Illegal immigrants moving from one apartment complex to another or one rent house to another who have teenage children who are involved in gang activity. It said in the Chronicle that the teen who was murdered had no family here because his father had been deported back to central america.This is a huge problem that has not frequently been mentioned in the immigration debate. You have a large criminal element that comes with illegal immigration. You have violent gangs and drug activity, not just people who want to work hard and improve their lives. There needs to be greater accountability in U.S. cities for apartment complexes and the people that are living in them. Every time I hear a protest rally about how important the Latinos are to our country, I think of all the criminal gang scum that filter into the country and how their conditions are responsible for Houston's rise in violent crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicMan Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) http://www.click2houston.com/news/9339563/detail.htmlYou can chalk up murder #4 for the west end. Teenage girl killed a teenage illegal immigrant gang member a couple days ago in the Montrose Park. I didn't realize that Lamar H.S. had gotten so bad. I thought it was a good school, then I hear about a confrontation in the park with teens wearing clothing with Lamar insignia.Well, those are just a few of the people at Lamar. Any large American high school has a few bad guys. That's like calling Klein Collins bad for having those Nazi guys. Also, the police do not know if the guys are Lamar students. There are some Lamar kids who suspect certain people as those involved.My sister never made any complaints about safety at Lamar HS.Lamar HS is trimming the student population, and that means kicking out transfer (non-zoned) students. Guess who is going to be kicked out first? Edited June 8, 2006 by VicMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamolover Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) http://www.click2houston.com/news/9339563/detail.htmlYou can chalk up murder #4 for the west end. Teenage girl killed a teenage illegal immigrant gang member a couple days ago in the Montrose Park. I didn't realize that Lamar H.S. had gotten so bad. I thought it was a good school, then I hear about a confrontation in the park with teens wearing clothing with Lamar insignia.Alot of people may worry that Montrose is no longer safe, but I can guarantee that it's still very safe. The community has not changed. The problem is the same problem that you can have anywhere in the Houston area or suburbs. Illegal immigrants moving from one apartment complex to another or one rent house to another who have teenage children who are involved in gang activity. It said in the Chronicle that the teen who was murdered had no family here because his father had been deported back to central america.This is a huge problem that has not frequently been mentioned in the immigration debate. You have a large criminal element that comes with illegal immigration. You have violent gangs and drug activity, not just people who want to work hard and improve their lives. There needs to be greater accountability in U.S. cities for apartment complexes and the people that are living in them. Every time I hear a protest rally about how important the Latinos are to our country, I think of all the criminal gang scum that filter into the country and how their conditions are responsible for Houston's rise in violent crime.Where did you get the information that the victim was an illegal immigrant? Ther's no mention of immigration status in the KPRC coverage linked above.Here's the Chronicle's coverage of the incident -- no mention there of anyone's immigration status:http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3948940.htmlhttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/3948935.htmlhttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3945217.htmlOne of the above articles states that the boy's father "is in El Salvador," not that he was deported there. Care to explain how you know that the victim's father was deported, and that the victim was in the US illegally?Well, those are just a few of the people at Lamar. Any large American high school has a few bad guys. That's like calling Klein Collins bad for having those Nazi guys. Also, the police do not know if the guys are Lamar students. There are some Lamar kids who suspect certain people as those involved.My sister never made any complaints about safety at Lamar HS.Lamar HS is trimming the student population, and that means kicking out transfer (non-zoned) students. Guess who is going to be kicked out first?One of the Chronicle articles includes some interviews of current Lamar HS students. It doesn't indicate that gangs are a big problem on the school's campus. But I would expect the school's administration to be even more strict after this terrible incident. Edited June 8, 2006 by dynamolover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Where did you get the information that the victim was an illegal immigrant? Ther's no mention of immigration status in the KPRC coverage linked above.Here's the Chronicle's coverage of the incident -- no mention there of anyone's immigration status:http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3948940.htmlhttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/3948935.htmlhttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3945217.htmlOne of the above articles states that the boy's father "is in El Salvador," not that he was deported there. Care to explain how you know that the victim's father was deported, and that the victim was in the US illegally?I read in the Chronicle that the boys father was arrested for a misdemeanor offense, jailed for a time then deported. The boy that got killed and his siblings are U.S. citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/3948937.htmlAfter Gabriel Granillo's father was deported last year, relatives of the teen and his older brother opened up their homes to the boys, but the youths had already chosen their street family above all else.Martinez said Granillo's father began having problems with the older brother shortly before he was deported, but it wasn't until after he was sent to El Salvador that the youths seriously fell into gangs. Edited June 8, 2006 by sevfiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamolover Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) Thanks for the links & quote! I wonder what the deal is with the girl they arrested. Edited June 8, 2006 by dynamolover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureAuteur Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Okay, you are right. He was not an illegal immigrant. I assumed he was, because the Chronicle said that his father had been deported, which I thought the reason being he was here illegally and did something wrong. I didn't know you could get deported as a U.S. citizen. Nonetheless, the teen was involved with gangs that originate in central america. Many of them entered the U.S. illegally, and I still feel this is something that should be mentioned more in the immigration debate, even though this particular murder doesn't directly relate to the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Okay, you are right. He was not an illegal immigrant. I assumed he was, because the Chronicle said that his father had been deported, which I thought the reason being he was here illegally and did something wrong. I didn't know you could get deported as a U.S. citizen. Nonetheless, the teen was involved with gangs that originate in central america. Many of them entered the U.S. illegally, and I still feel this is something that should be mentioned more in the immigration debate, even though this particular murder doesn't directly relate to the issue.US citizens cannot be deported. Thboy was a citizen. The father was not.How should this be part of the imigration debate? To show that deporting millions of parents will leave millions of orphaned children to be recruited by gangs? Somehow, I don't see the House using this to support deportation. They'd rather assume that all non-citizen parents only have non-citizen children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicMan Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 The girl's name has been revealed! She is Ashley Paige Benton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Ashley Paige Benton sounds like an illegal immigrant's name.We should build a wall at our borders; with CANADA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAK Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Ashleigh Page Benton is a blonde American female - and she was the 'lead' of this particular gang activity.So, blonde Americans females are responsible for 25% of the West End murders and their gang activity must be stopped!!!I don't feel safe around blonde American females - help me.Actually, if we could all get off the 'race' horse (pun intended) and see that the majority of the problems we have with crime are socioeconomic (more economic than 'socio').People with money have the means to fill their time with lots of... whatever.People without money have.... not much to do except be pissed at themselves and everyone else... and then gangs and crime and other criminal elements come into pla... just like they did WAAAAY before there was a 'problem' with immigration from the south.History tells us that poverty and crime don't care what your ethnic/racial background are.Blaming 'illegal immigrant gang members' will not help the problem.Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Ashleigh Page Benton is a blonde American female - and she was the 'lead' of this particular gang activity.So, blonde Americans females are responsible for 25% of the West End murders and their gang activity must be stopped!!!I don't feel safe around blonde American females - help me.Actually, if we could all get off the 'race' horse (pun intended) and see that the majority of the problems we have with crime are socioeconomic (more economic than 'socio').People with money have the means to fill their time with lots of... whatever.People without money have.... not much to do except be pissed at themselves and everyone else... and then gangs and crime and other criminal elements come into pla... just like they did WAAAAY before there was a 'problem' with immigration from the south.History tells us that poverty and crime don't care what your ethnic/racial background are.Blaming 'illegal immigrant gang members' will not help the problem.Carry on.I agree with quite a bit of what it has been said (very good post, tak!).If one actually pays attention to the news as well as stats, the crime victim generally knows the attacker in some form (gang, spouse, lover, lawn man), or they are in a situation that exposes it to it (Drug dealer, drug deal gone bad, association with gang members, not paying attention to surroundings..).As far as the muggings and such goes, those are generally as random as car accidents and as such can, for the most part, be avoided with a little extra precaution.So I agree, let's get off this race thing, the immigration thing and simply chaulk it up people being in bad situations to begin with or simply having some bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 As per the city's website that you were most likely referencing:And my post primarily concerned the data collection methods and the limitations that must necessarily be considered in performing an analysis of the official UCR data...not the fact that the data exists.In some ways this raw data is better than a UCR. Uniform Crime Reports that are filed with the FBI can be fudged in many ways. College police departments do it all the time.One of the easiest ways is to game the crime classification. In a UCR, only one crime can be reported per incident. So if somene breaks into a dorm room, rapes a girl, and makes off with her CD player, the campus police can report it as "theft" instead of "rape." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureAuteur Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I never said the attacker was an illegal immigrant. I assumed that the victim was. I'm aware all ethnicities and races are equally likely to commit violent crimes, but with a lot of illegal immigrants who become involved in criminal activity, violence and carrying a gun is about as normal as an American carrying a cell phone. That is the way to solve problems in their old country traditions. These people don't have the same kind of joy and apreciation of life that most Americans have because of the environment they came from. So, I would say this is a concern within the immigration debate. I was definitely shocked, nonetheless, that the attacker was a teenage white girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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