NRG Park Mixed-Use Development

[monarch]

5 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

ROFL.  So I guess we’re so far gone, the query of “what are we lacking” is irrelevant.  
 

^^^ ROFL... the very latest edition...

[samagon]

11 hours ago, freundb said:

So in six years NRG went from hosting the Super Bowl, to being so decrepit it can't play host to big games?

Why will no one give examples of what's so wrong with it? I've only been a handful of times, but I didn't find it to be a poor stadium. Maybe its cuz I'm from the north where I grew up going to Lambeau Field, which by the way, doesn't have on field suits, or cabanas, or crazy concessions, yet is always hailed as one of the best places to watch a football game. The only reason it can't host a Super Bowl is because the city/metro is quite small and cannot support the circus that comes with the Super Bowl. 

NRG is fine, people are just caught up in getting the newest shiny $5 billion waste of money.

 

the standards by which you and I may judge the quality of the stadium is on a whole different level than the standards by which some CEO might consider to give the league $50,000 for a suite vs $100,000 for a suite. 

I don't mean to single you out, you aren't the only person who's said it, you're just the latest person to say it.

anyway, I fully agree with the questioning, what amenities are needed for a stadium to host a Superbowl? what amenities are lacking from NRG for it to host a superbowl?

6 hours ago, monarch said:

 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/2017/02/09/what-does-houston-need-to-do-for-nrg-stadium-to-host-another-super-bowl/

what answers does this provide to the questions posed regarding what NRG is specifically lacking to host another Superbowl?

it provides no answers, or insight that hasn't already been discussed.

in fact, I don't think that article you posted says anything about a new venue at all, it says NRG is a great venue, it could just be better. now the answer that must be provided is how it might be better?

the thing of it is, the city and county will not blindly start making changes to NRG in the hopes of getting another Superbowl. the city and county will go into negotiations for the next Superbowl, they will understand from those negotiations what NRG needs in order to host another Superbowl, they will sign a contract that says "if these specific changes are made, Houston will host Superbowl NNN". if I were the city/county I would negotiate for 2 Superbowls.

I wouldn't be shocked if one of the expectations is that something (ANYTHING) be done with/to the Astrodome.

anyway, Houston has leverage, we are considered a great host city, so people want to come here.

the thing of it is, the cost to upgrade NRG vs the money the game brings to the city, that has to be weighed, the NFL says $300,000,000 on the low end is what we can expect. other experts say $30,000,000 on the low end. which is a huge gap, but the point is, is the cost to upgrade NRG more than the opportunity gained from hosting?

Edited July 25, 2023 by samagon

[mattyt36]

20 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

To bring this back to the topic of the $2 Billion pot of money to be used in the downtown area/convention district;  As I understand it, they will not be able to use this money to fund anything at NRG Park.  

Way to go county "leadership".  

Dallas is using this same state-authorized funding plan to fund both a new convention center (the vast majority of the funds) and to provide some additional funding for Fair Park.  A relatively small fraction of this money could have funded a renovation/reimagining of the Astrodome.

Are you sure SB 1057 even applies to counties?  The law applies to "municipalities" and local government corporations that "operates a convention center facility located not more than three miles from the city hall of the municipality in which the convention center facility is located."

As far as I can tell, municipalities in Texas include only cities and, while the County operates NRG Park, it's definitely more than 3 miles from Houston City Hall.

[Montrose1100]

9 hours ago, monarch said:

 

HOUSTON – Now in its 16th year of use, NRG Stadium remains among the premier stadiums in the NFL.

Campo doesn’t believe Houston needs a brand new stadium to be awarded the Super Bowl five years from now.

“Even though it's 16 years old, it's still state-of-the-art. The way it was built, it's a timeless design. That design is not going to change,” Campo said.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/2017/02/09/what-does-houston-need-to-do-for-nrg-stadium-to-host-another-super-bowl/

All they need to do is paint it white and add more exterior/interior LEDs. Enhanced cellphone coverage and it will do fine for many more decades while looking as snazzy as the others.

 

Edit: Sorry, derailing this thread. 

[Houston19514]

10 hours ago, monarch said:

^^^ ROFL... the very latest edition...

Let us know when you have something to contribute to the discussion.

[hbg.50]

Let me know when Houston bids on another Super Bowl and loses out because of NRG Stadium.  Then we can discuss upgrades/changes.  Otherwise it just sounds like posturing to me by county/city officials.

For crying out loud we were just awarded World Cup matches in 2026 that are supposed to be bigger than 5 Super Bowls!

[monarch]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Let us know when you have something to contribute to the discussion.

^^^ here's a better, bigger, and more fitting contribution...

[samagon]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:03 PM, steve1363 said:

Let me know when Houston bids on another Super Bowl and loses out because of NRG Stadium.  Then we can discuss upgrades/changes.  Otherwise it just sounds like posturing to me by county/city officials.

For crying out loud we were just awarded World Cup matches in 2026 that are supposed to be bigger than 5 Super Bowls!

the way it's going to work is if the county/city bid for another superbowl, and the NFL agrees that Houston should get it, there will be a list of upgrades they require be done to NRG to host.

it is frustrating to read everyone say that NRG needs upgrades, but then doesn't take the time to quantify what, specifically, those upgrades are.

that's for hosting a superbowl.

the Texans have a 30 years lease on NRG, which started in 2002, so 9 more years, I suspect they'll start negotiating in 4 or so. considering their performance, they really lack negotiating power to 'demand' a new facility, but again, upgrades to the current facility, probably would be agreeable, so long as there's a long enough term on the renewed contract.

[asubrt]

I think the things NRG falls behind on are largely premium seating options/quality, as others have mentioned above. It also could use some visual upgrades, as it looks somewhat dated, especially the rather spartan concourses. I also wish there were more escalators to speed up access to/from ground level, rather than just one set per corner of the stadium. 

[004n063]

2 hours ago, asubrt said:

I think the things NRG falls behind on are largely premium seating options/quality, as others have mentioned above. It also could use some visual upgrades, as it looks somewhat dated, especially the rather spartan concourses. I also wish there were more escalators to speed up access to/from ground level, rather than just one set per corner of the stadium. 

It's also just drowning in surface parking. It manages to feel profoundly antiurban despite having its own stop on the red line and being directly connected to the protected bike trail network.

Edited July 27, 2023 by 004n063

[aachor]

8 hours ago, 004n063 said:

It's also just drowning in surface parking. It manages to feel profoundly antiurban despite having its own stop on the red line and being directly connected to the protected bike trail network.

Agreed. The stop on the red line makes the parking experience so much better than it really is in my opinion. My wife and I hate the rodeo parking situation so we typically end up parking in the Med Center or Downtown where things are less congested and where we don't have to deal with parking lots the size of Kansas. We then just ride the rail in. 

I think NRG Stadium could really be helped with a few large parking garages with skybridges directly connecting to the upper concourses. We recently attended a concert in the Toyota Center, and the connection between the arena and the Toyota Center garage make getting in an out so easy in comparison. Obviously, NRG is considerably larger, but I don't see why the same experience couldn't be replicated with multiple garages. 

The NRG parking lots would seem to be an ideal hotel location. Especially if the hotel could be connected via skybridges to garages and to the stadium. The Windham is packed during the rodeo. Last I saw it still looked fairly dated. And it requires visitors to make the trek across eight lanes of impatient and semi-intoxicated traffic. If the walk between the hotel and the rail was easy and well-lit, the hotel could also serve out of town visitors to downtown events, as well as out of town Med Center patients.

Edited July 28, 2023 by aachor

[004n063]

4 hours ago, aachor said:

Agreed. The stop on the red line makes the parking experience so much better than it really is in my opinion. My wife and I hate the rodeo parking situation so we typically end up parking in the Med Center or Downtown where things are less congested and where we don't have to deal with parking lots the size of Kansas. We then just ride the rail in. 

I think NRG Stadium could really be helped with a few large parking garages with skybridges directly connecting to the upper concourses. We recently attended a concert in the Toyota Center, and the connection between the arena and the Toyota Center garage make getting in an out so easy in comparison. Obviously, NRG is considerably larger, but I don't see why the same experience couldn't be replicated with multiple garages. 

The NRG parking lots would seem to be an ideal hotel location. Especially if the hotel could be connected via skybridges to garages and to the stadium. The Windham is packed during the rodeo. Last I saw it still looked fairly dated. And it requires visitors to make the trek across eight lanes of impatient and semi-intoxicated traffic. If the walk between the hotel and the rail was easy and well-lit, the hotel could also serve out of town visitors to downtown events, as well as out of town Med Center patients.

Totally agree. I don't think the Houston region will reach a point in my lifetime where a major sports venue and event center could be viable with no parking, but I think GRB/DG is a good, realistic example of how to design a regionally gravitational space that still feels human-scaled and inviting. 

I would love to see a "Rodeo District" redevelopment of the NRG parking lots. A couple of big garages on the edges, a few hotels, and a pedestrianized grid of narrow streets buttressed by short-term rentable multipurpose "stalls" (and/or mixed-use apts with such facilities on the ground floor, but purpose-built to be accessible to fledgling retail biz)

If only I had a few billion dollars to make it happen...

Edited July 28, 2023 by 004n063

[aachor]

4 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I would love to see a "Rodeo District" redevelopment of the NRG parking lots.

I like the term "Rodeo District."

Maybe the city should label the whole area as "The Rodeo District." It's so much better than calling it "The Astrodome Area" or as Google Maps labels it, "Gridiron."
 

Edited July 28, 2023 by aachor

[tigereye]

IMO NRG Stadium is not likely to be replaced. It’ll be renovated before the lease expiration, with a lease extension accompanying it or as part of a future Super Bowl bid (scoreboard was enlarged as part of the LI 2017 bid). I’d even venture to say none of our major sports venues will be replaced until maybe 30 years from now at earliest. All of the venues built in the late 90’s/early 2000’s were built in the best locations and with the right designs and amenities that can easily be improved on to meet todays standards. At this point, we’re more likely to see additional mixed use development occur around these venues to add revenue streams that many franchises seek today. The Astros have started that here with their upcoming mixed use development. Tillman may want mixed use for Toyota Center (maybe as part of the GRBCC renovation/expansion?). And it’s already been reported NRG Park officials are discussing the same. This is the next step in the evolution of our event facilities standing the test of time. 

[Big E]

On 7/24/2023 at 8:17 PM, freundb said:

The only reason it can't host a Super Bowl is because the city/metro is quite small and cannot support the circus that comes with the Super Bowl

Lambeau Field doesn't host Super Bowls because its a cold weather region and the stadium doesn't even have a roof on it. The league has hosted one cold weather Super Bowl in modern times, the one they held in New York a few years back, and not only was it one of the worst Super Bowls ever in terms of on the field product, it was terrible in any number of other ways as well. They barely missed getting snowed out by literally only a few hours, and many people who traveled to see the game found themselves stranded after the fact due to the weather. MetLife Stadium is probably the worst "new" stadium in the NFL, being in a remote location with no real mass transportation access (they even discourage walking to the stadium), so the local transportation networks were overburdened and broke down just trying to deal with all the people trying to get to the game, and it also doesn't have a roof despite the ludicrous amounts of money they spent on it, so anyone who saw that game sat in the cold.

The League will never hold another cold weather Super Bowl again after that fiasco, so even if Lambeau Field was located a few hours away in Milwaukee and had a dome on it, it wouldn't get a Super Bowl.

[freundb]

7 hours ago, Big E said:

The League will never hold another cold weather Super Bowl again after that fiasco, so even if Lambeau Field was located a few hours away in Milwaukee and had a dome on it, it wouldn't get a Super Bowl.

Have you ever looked at the climate of Minneapolis? They hosted a Super Bowl after the New York game. There goes that argument. Sure the NFL may prefer warmer climates or domes, but if they could host the Super Bowl in one of the most historic stadiums, they would. If Soldier field had more than 12 seats they'd have hosted one too. 

[Big E]

16 hours ago, freundb said:

Have you ever looked at the climate of Minneapolis? They hosted a Super Bowl after the New York game.

Minneapolis, like New York, had a brand new stadium, and, unlike New York, it was enclosed. Also unlike New York, it was in downtown Minneapolis, with plenty of transit and car access. It was only the sixth Super Bowl to ever be held in a cold weather city, and the new stadium was the only reason it happened.

16 hours ago, freundb said:

If Soldier field had more than 12 seats they'd have hosted one too.

Soldier Field? Are you kidding me? One of the oldest stadiums in the NFL (or professional sports, for that matter)? Aside from all the numerous problems with Soldier Field itself, its an open air, cold weather stadium, located right next to one of the Great Lakes, so lake effect would be in full swing, in the middle of one of the most crime ridden cities in America. Come on man, be serious.

Once the Bears build their new stadium, then they will probably get a Super Bowl (edit: maybe: the Bills aren't getting a Super Bowl, even after they get their new stadium, because its Buffalo, but their stadium is also not fully enclosed), but they are under no serious consideration for one now. At the very least, the league seems to want to give every new stadium at least one shot at hosting a Super Bowl.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Big E

[toxtethogrady]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:23 AM, monarch said:

^^^ question:  just how difficult is it to bring up google?  answer:  not difficult at all.  in fact, it's quite easy...

What does Houston need to do for NRG Stadium to host another Super Bowl?

HOUSTON – Now in its 16th year of use, NRG Stadium remains among the premier stadiums in the NFL.

However, the next four Super Bowls will be played in either brand new stadiums, or in facilities that have been renovated.

To secure the Super Bowl five years from now, NRG will no doubt have to look different than it does now.

The question Harris County leaders, the Houston Texans and the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation are wrangling with right now, is how much different.

“I'm not sure what the answer to that is, but you have to evaluate the competitive set, the competitive nature, and I know the county is evaluating what is going on at NRG Park and they will continue to invest in it,” said Ric Campo, chairman of the Super Bowl 51 Host Committee.

Channel 2 has learned those conversations were taking place long before the Super Bowl and they continue to take place.

It’s too early to say what those upgrades might cost, and in spite of what other cities have done and are doing to stay in the game, Campo doesn’t believe Houston needs a brand new stadium to be awarded the Super Bowl five years from now.

“Even though it's 16 years old, it's still state-of-the-art. The way it was built, it's a timeless design. That design is not going to change,” Campo said.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/2017/02/09/what-does-houston-need-to-do-for-nrg-stadium-to-host-another-super-bowl/

The area around NRG suffers from the idea that there's nothing out there - hotels, restaurants, entertainment (other than the obvious). And to be competitive, the stadium needs another 10,000 seats and maybe a few more suites. Minute Maid Park, while small, is right Downtown, not far from Discovery Green, and has nightlife. There are even residential developments nearby. And the team is a winner...

[texan]

“Harris County commissioners move forward with plan to revitalize NRG Park“

“Ideas discussed for the project included adding more green space, economic mixed-use areas instead of a massive parking lot that is empty most of the time, and looking to potential developments in the surrounding area, Precinct 1 Commissioner Rodney Ellis said.”
“The HCSCC shall present a minimum of two alternative plans based on national best practices and examples to redevelop, revitalize and plan for the future of the NRG Park complex.”

https://communityimpact.com/houston/bellaire-meyerland-west-university/government/2023/10/10/harris-county-commissioners-move-forward-with-plan-to-revitalize-nrg-park/?utm_campaign=Impact%3A Bay Area&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=277996572&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9awro4JrkLDrI9jeJ6Q67xJkjNiV1RQHwOaVEPB_-kGBvRZXTVTwvygchb5QT5ivrg2cuPRctt-ClFNrbwAvtwFJXF-g&utm_content=277996572&utm_source=hs_email

[shasta]

MMP was built in the right spot, wit synergy developing all around it. NRG/Reliant, much like the Houston Texans franchise decided to be stubborn and bucked all of the current trends about urban stadiums and built it in a seas of parking and then denied all development opportunities.

 

Why...they wanted the parking $$

[004n063]

10 hours ago, texan said:

the future of the NRG Park complex.”

Umm we call it the Rodeo District now. Gotta manifest.

[Moore-to-it]

11 hours ago, texan said:

“Harris County commissioners move forward with plan to revitalize NRG Park“

“Ideas discussed for the project included adding more green space, economic mixed-use areas instead of a massive parking lot that is empty most of the time, and looking to potential developments in the surrounding area, Precinct 1 Commissioner Rodney Ellis said.”
“The HCSCC shall present a minimum of two alternative plans based on national best practices and examples to redevelop, revitalize and plan for the future of the NRG Park complex.”

https://communityimpact.com/houston/bellaire-meyerland-west-university/government/2023/10/10/harris-county-commissioners-move-forward-with-plan-to-revitalize-nrg-park/?utm_campaign=Impact%3A 

If Houston hopes to host another Superbowl, it will have to evolve the area, these new stadiums that come along are not just stadiums anymore their entire entertainment districts and since  I doubt  we are building  a new stadium anytime soon, we will have to find new ways to keep NRG appealing  not just for Superbowls but other large scale events 

 

Not just NRG but Houston  Sports venues as a whole are getting  left behind... Was in Denver a few months ago and the area around the Rockys area, made me understand how underutilized  the Area around  Minunte maid, Toyota and even Shell Engery is by comparison 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Moore-to-it

[Houston19514]

8 hours ago, shasta said:

MMP was built in the right spot, wit synergy developing all around it. NRG/Reliant, much like the Houston Texans franchise decided to be stubborn and bucked all of the current trends about urban stadiums and built it in a seas of parking and then denied all development opportunities.

 

Why...they wanted the parking $$

Is there a current trend of urban football stadiums?

[shasta]

12 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Is there a current trend of urban football stadiums?

yes...in the late 90s/early 2000s

 

Pittsburgh (2001) near downtown

Charlotte (1996) downtown

Denver (2001) downtown

Baltimore (1998) downtown

Cleveland (1997) downtown

Edited October 13, 2023 by shasta

[tigereye]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:08 AM, texan said:

“Harris County commissioners move forward with plan to revitalize NRG Park“

“Ideas discussed for the project included adding more green space, economic mixed-use areas instead of a massive parking lot that is empty most of the time, and looking to potential developments in the surrounding area, Precinct 1 Commissioner Rodney Ellis said.”
“The HCSCC shall present a minimum of two alternative plans based on national best practices and examples to redevelop, revitalize and plan for the future of the NRG Park complex.”

https://communityimpact.com/houston/bellaire-meyerland-west-university/government/2023/10/10/harris-county-commissioners-move-forward-with-plan-to-revitalize-nrg-park/?utm_campaign=Impact%3A Bay Area&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=277996572&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9awro4JrkLDrI9jeJ6Q67xJkjNiV1RQHwOaVEPB_-kGBvRZXTVTwvygchb5QT5ivrg2cuPRctt-ClFNrbwAvtwFJXF-g&utm_content=277996572&utm_source=hs_email

I don’t understand why they can’t put the economic mixed use area inside a redeveloped Astrodome, topped with an onsite hotel on the upper levels of the Dome. It would be a climate controlled mixed use destination to support all events at NRG Park. Extends the funding to essentially kill two birds with one stone. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by tigereye

[Houston19514]

45 minutes ago, shasta said:

yes...in the late 90s/early 2000s

 

Pittsburgh (2001) near downtown

Charlotte (1996) downtown

Denver (2001) downtown

Baltimore (1998) downtown

Cleveland (1997) downtown

Oh…. When you said current, I presumed you meant current.  The newest of your listed stadiums is the 15th newest in the league. But even among the ones you listed,  most are hardly “urban” and are surrounded more by parking than by mixed use development.

[LosFeliz]

Chicago (1924)

New Orleans (1975)

Nashville (1999) across the river from downtown)

Cincinnati (2000)

Detroit (2002)

Seattle (2002)

Indianapolis (2008)

Minneapolis (2016)

Atlanta (2017)

And while not downtown, the  Las Vegas strip kinda counts as a better location for luring events (2020)

[Caribomoa]

I’ll agree with Monarch here for the most part. NRG Park and Stadium absolutely need to be upgraded in order for us to stay competitive in the long run. Hopefully this NRG Park upgrade is part of this answer and we get a nice upgrade to the Rodeo as well

[Big E]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:34 AM, tigereye said:

I don’t understand why they can’t put the economic mixed use area inside a redeveloped Astrodome, topped with an onsite hotel on the upper levels of the Dome. It would be a climate controlled mixed use destination to support all events at NRG Park. Extends the funding to essentially kill two birds with one stone. 

Because any attempted redevelopment of the Astrodome is immediately vetoed by both the Texans and the Rodeo, the two biggest tenants. Its been that way for years.

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, Big E said:

Because any attempted redevelopment of the Astrodome is immediately vetoed by both the Texans and the Rodeo, the two biggest tenants. Its been that way for years.

Not really.  There have been zero proposals from private developers that have come anywhere near having the necessary financial backing.  Having said that, yes, any proposed use of the Astrodome has to account for and involve the Texans and the Rodeo. Of course it must. As you said, they are the primary tenants and without them, neither NRG Stadium nor NRG Center (and therefore, NRG Park) would exist.