Dallas's Victory Project Vs. HPavilions/East Downtown Development

[Mister X]

Distort this however you want. But everyone knows there is only about 9 ugly new buildings going up in that overbuilt uptown district. Are there any buildings even over 30 floors? I think most are under 20. I see nothing in that photo that exactly sets the world on fire.

BTW, I think some of those cranes were just some mosquitos on the lens so they don't count. And if we are going to start counting all the cranes 'behind' the buildings then why not just make up a higher number and say that there are 40 cranes are just located 'behind' AAC.

This is all about fudging numbers to make it seem that Dallas is building more that it really is anyway isn't it. When all is wrapped up in the not too distant future, there won't be anything special about uptown Dallas except that it totally destroyed downtown Dallas. Hell, even most Dallas folk aren't all that impressed with it.

[Dallascaper]

How do I know YOU aren't a 12 year old drunk?

You don't. Are you quoting me on other boards? You shouldn't, I don't know anything.

[Dallascaper]

Distort this however you want. But everyone knows there is only about 9 ugly new buildings going up in that overbuilt uptown district. Are there any buildings even over 30 floors? I think most are under 20. I see nothing in that photo that exactly sets the world on fire.

BTW, I think some of those cranes were just some mosquitos on the lens so they don't count. And if we are going to start counting all the cranes 'behind' the buildings then why not just make up a higher number and say that there are 40 cranes are just located 'behind' AAC.

This is all about fudging numbers to make it seem that Dallas is building more that it really is anyway isn't it. When all is wrapped up in the not too distant future, there won't be anything special about uptown Dallas except that it totally destroyed downtown Dallas. Hell, even most Dallas folk aren't all that impressed with it.

I counted the crane behind the building because 1) you can see it in the photo, but it is obscured, and 2) I already posted a photo of the crane in a previous post earlier today. You need to F O C U S.

Here's the crane in question from another angle:

[Trae]

This is getting pretty silly.

[RedScare]

This is getting pretty silly.

Let 'em go. It's all they got. They shut down Victory last week. Mavs haven't won since they took the cranes down.

[TheNiche]

This is getting pretty silly.

No kidding.

[KinkaidAlum]

It's time to change the official name of the development....

DEFEATED PARK

[Mister X]

I agree this is too silly. If the only thing that can make you feel good is that they need 3 cranes to build 1 tower, you are grasping as straws and that's silly.

I suppose this time next year we will be debating over whether or not there is only one crane left in uptown Dallas or if that is just a speck of dirt on the lens.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Mister X

[banking214]

As a native Houstonian that just moved back to Houston after living for 7 years in Dallas, I can vouch for the cranes. Between the construction in and around Victory, and the developments in the arts district, it was pretty amazing. Mr. X, maybe you should make a drive to Dallas and check the cranes out.

[Mister X]

I saw it just 2 weeks ago. I didn't count the cranes, but I can vouch that what I saw does not exactly put Dubai to shame. I read somewhere that there are 9 buildings going up in uptown Dallas. All of them relatively small towers. You guys can verify that if you care enough. But that looked about right to me. I never made a guess as to how many actual cranes they are using. I don't see how it is relevant. The buildings going up are too dull to care about. Museum Tower and Victory Tower were the only ones worth talking about.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Mister X

[banking214]

I saw it just 2 weeks ago. I didn't count the cranes, but I can vouch that what I saw does not exactly put Dubai to shame. I read somewhere that there are 9 buildings going up in uptown Dallas. All of them relatively small towers. You guys can verify that if you care enough. But that looked about right to me. I never made a guess as to how many actual cranes they are using. I don't see how it is relevant. The buildings going up are to dull to care about. Museum Tower and Victory Tower were the only ones worth talking about.

"what I saw does not exactly put Dubai to shame"

I think Dubai puts everyone to shame. It is a sick amount of construction.

[Mister X]

Yes it is. When Dallas starts looking like Dubai give me a call. But nine very ordinary mid-rises is hardly worth making a fuss about. I don't think Houston has any shortage of the type of buildings going up in Dallas right now.

HP - 12 stories

One Park Place - 37 stories

Discovery Tower - 31 stories

Discovery Tower Parking Garage - 10 stories

6 Houston Center - 29 stories

Main Place - 46 stories

Embassy Suites - 22 stories

These are all either under construction are just about to start construction any day (except Embassy, that one hasn't been announced yet). I guess there should be about 17 cranes in Downtown Houston alone by July. If there are, do you think that 214 character will still be counting cranes? I don't. These are just what we know about. Sounds like more coming. (Dynamo Stadium, La Quinta, Brookfield site, Hines site,) I'm not even counting cranes in Uptown or the TMC yet.

Sounds like even more cranes on the horizon for Uptown Houston and TMC. So don't blame me if I'm not that impressed by what going on uptown Dallas right now. That's 250 miles away. It means nothing here.

[tierwestah]

Borrowed these pics from NThomas on skyscrapercity. Anyone know why the wall showing the mural of the MO was painted over? Just curious.

The person who took these pics also said he was just at VP and alomst all the cranes are gone.

Edited March 7, 2008 by tierwestah

[Trae]

Here is that quote:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I took a visit to Victory Park and saw for myself the cranes are gone (I don't know if they were permanent we've been over this before) and the "top" floor of the parking garage now has lamp posts, something you usually wouldn't see on the renderings of Victory Tower, on the third level... Anyways, there's also the construction barrier to talk about. The pretty white fence/wall around the Victory Tower site, the renderings, url, and MO logo have been painted over (and no I don't think this was an act of terrorism, it was probably Hillwood's doing). Unfortunately my day of taking pictures for The Daily Digital was brought down by this bad news.

[Dallascaper]

Borrowed these pics from NThomas on skyscrapercity. Anyone know why the wall showing the mural of the MO was painted over? Just curious.

Because it has been canceled? Just guessing.

Speculation at DM is that the MO towers in Chicago and Atlanta are gone as well, but those who know for a fact aren't talking. My sister works for Hillwood and was surprised when I told her two weeks ago that the tower was history. But then, she always thought it strange that I knew more about Victory than she did.

Anyway, the land is available for another tower, should the market or Ross' credit allow it. The only thing I didn't like about the old tower is that it topped out at 199 meters. Maybe Ross can tack on 3 more feet to the new tower to make it a clean 200 meters. Or maybe they'll just build a Starbuck's on that lot.

[Trae]

The MO in Atlanta has been gone for a while.

Still, Victory Park is overbuilt and developers need to chill for a year to 18 months. They are doing the same to Atlanta which is in a similar situation.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Trae

[tierwestah]

So maybe its not a question of the stablilty of the Victory Project but stability of M/O afterall?

Edited March 8, 2008 by tierwestah

[NDtexan]

So don't blame me if I'm not that impressed by what going on uptown Dallas right now. That's 250 miles away. It means nothing here.

So if that's the case, what are you doing making nine posts in the last two days on this thread in poor little Dallas' subforum? with all of houstons great new projects underway, why dont you just stay out of here?

Edited March 8, 2008 by NDtexan

[Trae]

So if that's the case, what are you doing making nine posts in the last two days on this thread in poor little Dallas' subforum? with all of houstons great new projects underway, why dont you just stay out of here?

On so many levels.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Trae

[Mister X]

So if that's the case, what are you doing making nine posts in the last two days on this thread in poor little Dallas' subforum? with all of houstons great new projects underway, why dont you just stay out of here?

Because watching infantile people throw hissy fits over cancelled projects is a sick form of entertainment for me. But seriously, what is this, an interview? This is about Victory Park vs HP and the East End, not me.

Since you north Texans put so much value in what Houstonians think, I feel I am doing you all a service in offering my opinion. After all, why would someone living in north Texas come to a Houston based forum to find out about what's going on in their own back yards? This isn't about what Dallasites think of Dallas. It's about what Houstonians think of Dallas.

This sub-forum isn't here for Dallasites to fluff their fragile egos. That's what dallasmetropolis is for. 95% of the people surfing HAIF are probably from Houston. And although I don't think there is anything going on in Dallas that is very relevant to Houston, I suppose this DFW sub-forum gives Houstonians a place to discuss what's going on in Dallas.

That's all I'm doing. Just killing time and discussing what is going on in Dallas (namely Victory Park vs HP and the East End)(or should I say - what is NOT going on in Victory Park. :lol: ).

What are YOU doing ND? I'll tell you. You're asking Mister X to talk about Mister X. O.K. I can do that in another sub forum, but lets please keep the topic about Victory and Houston's East End. In the mean time come back anytime for more Houstonians opinions about Dallas, I'll give you all you can handle. Until a moderator makes me stop.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Mister X

[NDtexan]

Because watching infantile people throw hissy fits over cancelled projects is a sick form of entertainment for me. But seriously, what is this, an interview? This is about Victory Park vs HP and the East End, not me.

Since you north Texans put so much value in what Houstonians think, I feel I am doing you all a service in offering my opinion. After all, why would someone living in north Texas come to a Houston based forum to find out about what's going on in their own back yards? This isn't about what Dallasites think of Dallas. It's about what Houstonians think of Dallas.

This sub-forum isn't here for Dallasites to fluff their fragile egos. That's what dallasmetropolis is for. 95% of the people surfing HAIF are probably from Houston. And although I don't think there is anything going on in Dallas that is very relevant to Houston, I suppose this DFW sub-forum gives Houstonians a place to discuss what's going on in Dallas.

That's all I'm doing. Just killing time and discussing what is going on in Dallas (namely Victory Park vs HP and the East End)(or should I say - what is NOT going on in Victory Park. :lol: ).

What are YOU doing ND? I'll tell you. You're asking Mister X to talk about Mister X. O.K. I can do that in another sub forum, but lets please keep the topic about Victory and Houston's East End. In the mean time come back anytime for more Houstonians opinions about Dallas, I'll give you all you can handle. Until a moderator makes me stop.

Everything you just stated is why I usually only come over here about once a month, and even then it's only for entertainment purposes. Some of you folks down there seem incredibly insecure when you disparage Uptown Dallas' construction or when you tear apart some of the dumb Dallas homers that post here. Overall, I think it's pretty harmless and funny, but sometimes it's just too much to take, and I make a post in response. So thats what I was doing X.

Oh and I appreciate the pic Trae. just so you know, as ive read more and more of your posts on different development sites, ive begun to ignore what you say more and more. but again, thanks for Ray

[JasonDFW]

[Fail] On so many levels.

I think you made a wise decision removing your original text/comment here. It was one of those posts that while looked witty at first glance, but falls apart quickly when you realize if it had substance it would have gone 180

[713 To 214]

713 to 214, you might owe me a beer before this is done.

Sure thing, and thanks for the crane count. Pick any of the following places in Victory and let me know when we're drinking.

CRAFT

GHOSTBAR

HOUSE OF BLUES

KENICHI

LA CONDESA

LUNA DE NOCHE

MEDINA

N9NE

NOVE

VICTORY TAVERN

LIVING ROOM

Thanks for the crane count, again. Too bad we couldn't get the Arts District cranes in any of those shots. However, there is a live cam I think that can capture them all. I'll look for the link.

[Trae]

I think you made a wise decision removing your original text/comment here. It was one of those posts that while looked witty at first glance, but falls apart quickly when you realize if it had substance it would have gone 180

[Mister X]

Overall, I think it's pretty harmless and funny

Now, THAT'S the right attitude. For once I finally think we can agree on something. It's probably best to never take a bunch of words one sees on the internet too seriously. Truth be told, I really don't think anyone from Houston or Dallas has that much to be insecure about. You guys have cranes to look at in Dallas, we guys have cranes to look at in Houston (of course, I can't think of why I would ever take the time to post a photo of several cranes constructing a few ordinary midrises in Houston on a Dallas forum, but that's just me)(I suppose there are different levels of insecurity)... and then there are people like 214 to 713, he is insecurity incarnate.

This is just a silly pissing contest, and I am among the first to acknowledge the silliness and the pointlessness of stuff like 'counting cranes'. But as my mother used to say...

"It's always fun until someone gets hurt!"

...so the retaliation and childish bickering should never come as a complete surprise to anyone in the DFW section at HAIF. It's all in fun. Laughing at Dallasites is always fun.

Sure thing, and thanks for the crane count. Pick any of the following places in Victory and let me know when we're drinking.

CRAFT

GHOSTBAR

HOUSE OF BLUES

KENICHI

LA CONDESA

LUNA DE NOCHE

MEDINA

N9NE

NOVE

VICTORY TAVERN

LIVING ROOM

Thanks for the crane count, again. Too bad we couldn't get the Arts District cranes in any of those shots. However, there is a live cam I think that can capture them all. I'll look for the link.

It should be real easy for you two to find each other, you will be the only ones in any of those places.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Mister X

[tierwestah]

(or should I say - what is NOT going on in Victory Park. :lol: ).

Seriously Mister X, you should be a comedian!!!

[C2H]

Guys take it easy. This thread has been open too long to get closed before both projects are finally finished. I'm enjoying the light humor myself but i'm nervous that this thread will get locked.

[Mister X]

Guys take it easy. This thread has been open too long to get closed before both projects are finally finished. I'm enjoying the light humor myself but i'm nervous that this thread will get locked.

Victory is already finished.

But yes, we probably need to keep this thread open until after my first game at Lucky Strike has been played and my first book at Books-A-Million has been bought.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Mister X

[Mister X]

Kiss my seaport!

You're silly Dallasboi. Houston is the powerhouse of Texas, not Dallas. Please get it right next time. Dallas only gives Houston a run for the money when it comes to building very forgettable, boring mid-rises and retractable roof football stadiums.

And BTW, I'll probably check out HOB a few times too. There are enuf restaurants to keep me going back pretty often. But forget about me, those downtown workers will be keeping HP busy during the days. Unlike Victory, where people have to walk half a mile to get to a lot of nuthin', HP will be in the CENTER of DT Houston, a convenience to hundreds of thousands on a daily basis.

Game Over. We won.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Mister X

[banking214]

I think we should have an age requirement to post.