terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't waste a perfect bayou location on our jails? Moving them would also help alleviate the transient and homeless population in downtown. If we're going to turn downtown into a vibrant and livable area, something has to be done. What do you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't waste a perfect bayou location on our jails? Moving them would also help alleviate the transient and homeless population in downtown. If we're going to turn downtown into a vibrant and livable area, something has to be done. What do you think?1. OK, where to?2. Every downtown/big metro area has a homeless problem, either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I've always thought having the jail across the bayou from the county processing, accessed via an enclosed bridge, was a nice choice that seemed like it the jail was on an island with no escape. And realistically, the jail needs to be near the court house, and the only place that makes sense for the court house is downtown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Move it anywhere else. Why waste perfect bayou property on a jail? Not saying that it will eliminate the homeless problem, but it will decrease it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well, obviously its not on an island, so that doesnt hold any water. 5th Ward is close, that would be a suitable place. Land would be cheap enough to build a nice facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Move it anywhere else. Why waste perfect bayou property on a jail? Not saying that it will eliminate the homeless problem, but it will decrease it.What makes you think that moving the jail will have any effect on homeless populations? Why would you want to increase the difficulty of moving prisoners to and from the court house? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 When prisoners are released, and they dont have anywhere else to go, where do you think they end up? It doesnt increase the difficulty to put them in a bus and take them somewhere else. Its not like they get to just walk from the court house to the jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 They do. There's a sky walk over the bayou to County Processing, and then from there they go through the court tunnel systems. The bailiff/deputy/whoever just walks them the whole way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 When prisoners are released, and they dont have anywhere else to go, where do you think they end up? It doesnt increase the difficulty to put them in a bus and take them somewhere else. Its not like they get to just walk from the court house to the jail. Actually, they do get to just walk from the court house to the jail (and vice versa). That's why they have the system of enclosed sky bridges and tunnels connecting the jail buildings to the criminal court house. Even if moving the jails would have any of the benefits you imagine (and that's a huge stretch), this is an idea that is simply a non-starter. There are few things I am as confident of flatly stating, without qualification, as this: Harris County is not going to relocate the county jails away from the downtown courthouse complex. Not. Going. To. Happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I could see them relocate the jail if they relocate the county courthouse complex...but they would still keep it in downtown. It helps too much that its centralized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) I also don't see this ever happening, however, if they could move the foul stench of fresh poo (or maybe it's raw sewage so hard to tell because I'm not an expert in the subtle differences of human poo and raw sewage) that wafts around right where the bike trail crosses san jacinto, that would be nice. From a foul stench perspective, I'm not sure what's worse, going under the waugh bridge on buffalo bayou, or crossing san jacinto on the bike trail. the foul stench of bat poo, or human poo, such a choice. edit: if they realign 45 as they have proposed, just move it right next to the greyhound station! every jail release comes with a free greyhound ticket to some other city. hell, just keep the pierce elevated, put a lot of barbed wire on it so the jail occupants (is it politically incorrect to call them inmates?) can't escape, and call it a day. the days inn could be re-purposed into the courthouse. Yeah, I've got this all figured out... Edited August 21, 2015 by samagon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Reading the article on the Sheriff's office, they did move the jail from the center of downtown some - it used to be across San Jacinto from the historic courthouse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_County_Sheriff%27s_Office_(Texas)#Correction_facilities That entire piece of land north of the bend in the Bayou and south of the bike trail is full of jails, with almost 10,000 beds. On a side note, when will the residential population of downtown surpass the incarcerated population? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well maybe they should put them in a bus. Obviously this is a far fetched proposal, but it's an interesting topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adr Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Though I don't think it will ever happen (and I live a couple blocks from the jail), I often think "man that would make great student housing for UHD." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I also don't see this ever happening, however, if they could move the foul stench of fresh poo (or maybe it's raw sewage so hard to tell because I'm not an expert in the subtle differences of human poo and raw sewage) that wafts around right where the bike trail crosses san jacinto, that would be nice. From a foul stench perspective, I'm not sure what's worse, going under the waugh bridge on buffalo bayou, or crossing san jacinto on the bike trail. what is that all about? i was in the area checking out Allens Landing progress, and drove through that area past Bakers St Jail(?) with the windows UP, and the smell was unbearable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 When prisoners are released, and they dont have anywhere else to go, where do you think they end up? It doesnt increase the difficulty to put them in a bus and take them somewhere else. Its not like they get to just walk from the court house to the jail. Source for your assertion? The vast majority of prisoners go home on release, not the streets. Those who were homeless before going to jail, may be homeless on release. Nearly all the homeless have a mental illness or are long term substance abusers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 I would also love to see all those bail bonds business move away from Houston Ave. It really makes the area look like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ross, you dont really make a point. I presented a senario, When they are released and don't have a place to go, They end up in downtown streets. I'm aware many of them have a place to go upon their release, however, many do not. Yes, it is a fact that most homeless have some sort of mental illness and/or drug addiction. Not quote sure how that relates to the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ross, you dont really make a point. I presented a senario, When they are released and don't have a place to go, They end up in downtown streets. I'm aware many of them have a place to go upon their release, however, many do not. Yes, it is a fact that most homeless have some sort of mental illness and/or drug addiction. Not quote sure how that relates to the post. First off, the jail is a county jail, and not for ex-cons (jail and prison are not interchangeable terms). Secondly, every major metropolitan city in America has some degree of a homeless problem. San Francisco, New York City, Chicago, Philly, St. Louis, Dallas, Detroit, New Orleans, etc. are all no exception (or have it worse). Thirdly, the jail is in a rather good place from a logistics standpoint, it's outside of downtown from a physical sense, though the courthouse is, and the walkway means that resources don't have be wasted as cop cars transport inmates to and fro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstar Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 The only way I could see the jails being moved is for a new stadium proposal. They seem to be able to move heaven and earth for those. It could be like AT&T park in San Francisco, but instead of building it along San Francisco Bay, it would be built along Buffalo Bayou. They could incorporate some of the building in the design, maybe nickname it something like "the Big House." Kayakers could float around the bayou waiting for Carlos Correa to hit one our of the park. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeopleAreStrange Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Whenever I walk past the two cheap food stores on Main St, I'm baffled at how may homeless people congrigate at them. I don't see large groups of homeless people like that in other parts of downtown Houston or in other large downtowns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 What would be the cost of something like this, and where would they go? Wouldn't they have to move the courthouses too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 The cost would be high, but could be offset by the profit from the sale of the property. I dont believe they would need to move the courthouses, only need to find a new way to transport inmates from the courthouse to the jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well, obviously its not on an island, so that doesnt hold any water. Well, actually... when they get around to building the North Canal it kinda will be surrounded by water on all sides and kinda will be an island... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 The only way I could see the jails being moved is for a new stadium proposal. They seem to be able to move heaven and earth for those. It could be like AT&T park in San Francisco, but instead of building it along San Francisco Bay, it would be built along Buffalo Bayou. They could incorporate some of the building in the design, maybe nickname it something like "the Big House." Kayakers could float around the bayou waiting for Carlos Correa to hit one our of the park. Brilliant. Only thing going against this would be the westward field orientation. As it is now, MMP is the only stadium in MLB that has even a slight westward bias. IIRC the long term aim (aside from flood management) is to create a touristy area, similar to San Antonio's Riverwalk, along the North and/or South canal projects. What better way to push that goal along than to build a stadium along the waterfront? Just two short decades from now MMP will be as old as the Astrodome was when we stopped using it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 At the risk of sounding harsh... this is one of the dumbest ideas I have heard. Just because you don't want your precious senses assaulted by the lower echelons of society doesn't mean the jail and related structures should be shoved into a different part of town. Why should those people have to put up with the issues you decry? Just because you want a pristine downtown where you can sip coffee and eat trendy dishes in sidewalk cafes while you pretend Houston is the Left Bank? YGBFKM. The current set-up is probably as efficient as it could be in a city this size. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 At the risk of sounding harsh... this is one of the dumbest ideas I have heard. Just because you don't want your precious senses assaulted by the lower echelons of society doesn't mean the jail and related structures should be shoved into a different part of town. Why should those people have to put up with the issues you decry? Just because you want a pristine downtown where you can sip coffee and eat trendy dishes in sidewalk cafes while you pretend Houston is the Left Bank? YGBFKM. The current set-up is probably as efficient as it could be in a city this size. While I have to wince at the fact that this reminds me of my idealistic/dumb posts from another era (the last time I remember doing that was something regarding tubing on the bayous), I feel that OP has screwed up by hinging their argument on something irrelevant ("the jail is the cause for the homeless", etc.) and attempted to call out others who call BS on that. FACT #1: The jail is still across the bayou, and not technically in downtown at all.FACT #2: While I hate driving around in it, downtown is still nice. Go have a beer at the Flying Saucer. Visit the library on a weekday. Those things I have actually done.FACT #3: If you really strive for that "clean urbanism" that TV, movies, and marketing materials have taught you, there are a number of nice outdoor malls in the suburbs that you may find more toward your liking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I live downtown.I have zero issue with the jail or the federal pen being where they are. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ross, you dont really make a point. I presented a senario, When they are released and don't have a place to go, They end up in downtown streets. I'm aware many of them have a place to go upon their release, however, many do not. Yes, it is a fact that most homeless have some sort of mental illness and/or drug addiction. Not quote sure how that relates to the post. if they don't have a place to go when they get out, they probably didn't have a place to go when they went in. what's your point? Do jails not have programs to try and help people come out on their feet? Is jail just a place for people to go get 3 squares a day and recreate the rest of the time? I don't know a lot about jail so I can't really answer. I do know once they are out, there are a lot of services to help people get out of homelessness all around downtown, perhaps the issue here isn't that the jail is in the wrong place, but that these homeless services are. So maybe we shouldn't move the jail, but the goal should to move one of these programs to help the homeless closer to the jail exits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terra002 Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 The main concern is that we're wasting prime bayou real estate on a jail. It does bring a negative element to the area, but that's not the focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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