Mister X Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 That article didn't change my mind. It's still just a mall. A nice mall, but not the best mall in Texas by a long shot. I would certainly never go out of my way to see it again. Anyone from Houston or any other big city will be very disappointed if they go there expecting much more than what they already have close to home. But I think we get it 214. Dallas has impressed itself with it's new old mall. But don't expect the rest of the world to be. Anyway, you lost me when you put Houston's Galleria in the same class as Gulfgate. That tells us alot about your ability to rate shopping centers. Hizzy was right about this thread turning into Comedy Central. I was going for a cheap laugh earlier, but reading these long, long post from Dallasite's trying to convince everybody how upscale Dallas is, is downright hilarious. Keep it coming. We're all getting a kick out of it. That article from the DMN is pure gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonDFW Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Anyone from Houston or any other big city will be very disappointed if they go there expecting much more than what they already have close to home.I thought this goes without saying? In fact I'd say most anyone in any big city will not see much more than what they have by going just about anywhere in the US. Even visiting the MOA if you don't have kids to tour the rides is not much different than anywhere else in the US.So, are any of the Malls in Texas you mentioned that are way better than Northpark in the Houston area? If so could you list a couple because I'll be visiting this weekend and would enjoy checking one out.Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 But I think we get it 214. Dallas has impressed itself with it's new old mall. But don't expect the rest of the world to be. Hizzy was right about this thread turning into Comedy Central. I was going for a cheap laugh earlier, but reading these long, long post from Dallasite's trying to convince everybody how upscale Dallas is, is downright hilarious. Keep it coming. We're all getting a kick out of it. That article from the DMN is pure gold! Mr. X, I have to agree with you on this one. This is probably the funniest post I've ever been involved with. Even with all the bashing, another person submits an article taken from the net or a newspaper thinking it will make a difference. I say keep it coming too. I've been thinking about planning a vacation, places that I dream of going cause it would be an experience. The Great Wall, the Sistine Chapel, Red Square come mind. Northpark doesn't make my list. For me shopping on the streets of Europe was more exciting than shopping at a mall. All i can say is that the state will be collecting more sales tax. Maybe my property taxes/school taxes will go down. Thanks Northpark. So, are any of the Malls in Texas you mentioned that are way better than Northpark in the Houston area? If so could you list a couple because I'll be visiting this weekend and would enjoy checking one out. Ok one more time. We could care less. This is sooo comical. I know when i visit another city, my first priority is visiting a mall. I'd recommend Northline, yea Northline. There's a lot of history behind it. I guarantee you it will be an experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonDFW Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Ok one more time. We could care less. This is sooo comical. I know when i visit another city, my first priority is visiting a mall. I'd recommend Northline, yea Northline. There's a lot of history behind it. I guarantee you it will be an experience. Does it really matter that "we could care less"? I asked the person that brought it up, because *I* care and clearly the person who brought it up cares enough to mention it. My purpose of visiting Houston this weekend will not be to shop, so it will not be my "priority." However, I probably will end up shopping (as the wife is coming along) so is it a bad thing to ask where the nicest malls are? I asked for a couple so I may pick the closest mall to wherever I end up. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Does it really matter that "we could care less"? I asked the person that brought it up, because *I* care and clearly the person who brought it up cares enough to mention it. My purpose of visiting Houston this weekend will not be to shop, so it will not be my "priority." However, I probably will end up shopping (as the wife is coming along) so is it a bad thing to ask where the nicest malls are? I asked for a couple so I may pick the closest mall to wherever I end up.JasonThere are MANY great stores here that are not in malls. Are you looking for anything in particular? Sounds like you're just looking to walk around and burn some time. Instead, there are many great museums and several great parks that would probably be more enlightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 That article didn't change my mind.Of course it didn't. . .and I've got a surprise for you. It wasn't meant to. It was posted for the benefit of HAIF2's remaining membership, which is over 2050 people strong. You, certainly can't, and don't speak for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonDFW Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 There are MANY great stores here that are not in malls. Are you looking for anything in particular? Sounds like you're just looking to walk around and burn some time. Instead, there are many great museums and several great parks that would probably be more enlightening.I personally will be looking for something in particular that can't be found at a mall, but my wife will probably want to visit a mall just to waste some time. I will ask her about museums, but after just coming back from DC I don't know that she'll get all that excited about them.Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Of course it didn't. . .and I've got a surprise for you. It wasn't meant to. It was posted for the benefit of HAIF2's remaining membership, which is over 2050 people strong. You, certainly can't, and don't speak for everyone.This is getting really painful, like a hemorrhoid.I personally will be looking for something in particular that can't be found at a mall, but my wife will probably want to visit a mall just to waste some time. I will ask her about museums, but after just coming back from DC I don't know that she'll get all that excited about them.JasonI can confirm that we don't have any branches of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum or National Archives here. So it will be a different experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 You guys are amazing! This argument is as infantile as I've seen in any of the Houston/Dallas threads.Those from Houston: Don't get lured in by this "Dallas is classy and Houston's redneck" crap. Who gives a rat's back side????Those from Dallas: We know you rule, we know you one up us in everything, we know we have no hope to be like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tierwestah Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 This is getting really painful, like a hemorrhoid. 713 to 214 is a hemroid. I don't get it, i thought that Houston's galleria was supposed to be the 5th largest shopping cmoplex in the country? You mean to tell me that this Northpark in Dallas took the title? Unless Dallas people think they're the only ones that exist in Texas without giving Houson credit maybe? I don't know, but i would like to see other sources saying that Northpark is the largest mall in Texas from other than a Dallas paper. :closedeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 713 to 214 is a hemroid. I don't get it, i thought that Houston's galleria was supposed to be the 5th largest shopping cmoplex in the country? You mean to tell me that this Northpark in Dallas took the title? Unless people think they're the only ones that exist in Texas without giving Houson credit maybe? I don't know, but i would like to see other sources saying that Northpark is the largest mall in Texas from other than a Dallas paper. :closedeyes: Actually, with the 03 expansion, the Galleria became the nations 4th largest mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slfunk Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 It's NorthPark's big dayHigh-end mall becomes Texas' largest with unveiling of $225 million expansionhttp://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...rk.d077d73.html10:31 AM CDT on Friday, May 5, 2006By MARIA HALKIAS / The Dallas Morning News "NorthPark Center takes its place among the nation's exclusive malls Friday, unveiling a $225 million expansion that has been in the works for more than a decade. ""The 41-year-old Dallas shopping center joins a handful of U.S. malls with anticipated annual sales of at least $1 billion. At 2.35 million square feet, it's now the largest mall in Texas and one of the five largest in the U.S., according to the International Council of Shopping Centers....It's where new stores such as American Eagle Outfitters' Martin + Osa and J. Crew spinoffs Crewcuts and Madewell will open first. And it's a beachhead for the European invasion of hot specialty stores that include Intermix and Mango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimberlySayWhat Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I can't believe this is so important to people. Who cares? Maybe San Antonio will surpass everything Houston and Dallas within the next 10 years. San Antonio's already passed Dallas in population. Cities are growing and changing all the time. Maybe San Antonio is the next Miami. Forget us. Right now isn't the end of the world. There was an author on "Great Day Houston" the other day, a Brit, who attended a recent benefit in Houston and she said she had never seen so many Chanel suits in one room and even as a Houstonian I thought "who cares?". What a perfect example for this forum. I could totally picture a thread in here debating which city had the most women who wear Chanel suits at benefits: Dallas or Houston. You know, this rivalry, I'll say it again, no one outside of Texas cares. Why should we? Why is this so important to us? I'll be honest, I get wrapped up in it too sometimes, until I think how ridiculous is it. Human nature I guess. It is entertaining at times, though. Hey, is it true Coloradans hate Texans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tierwestah Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 i'm still trying to figure out the point of slfunk reposting the same article that 713-214 already posted .??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonDFW Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Hey, is it true Coloradans hate Texans? Anyway, onto your new topic. You know, Colorado is funny. These are generalizations, but many in Colorado don't like Texans. Sometimes there is a "go back home tourist" attitude, but the funniest thing about (and the only reason I find the topic interesting) it is that of the other 49 states, I think Colorado is the one most like Texas as far as the people. I didn't think that before I started visiting there a lot because there is another political vibe I used to get a lot. Lots of transplants there, including lots of Texans so in that way it's like Texas and perhaps that's why I get this impression. It's hard not to generalize about the state only looking at a select few cities though, as the population is so small and so scattered. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 It's NorthPark's big dayHigh-end mall becomes Texas' largest with unveiling of $225 million expansionhttp://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...rk.d077d73.html10:31 AM CDT on Friday, May 5, 2006By MARIA HALKIAS / The Dallas Morning News "The 41-year-old Dallas shopping center joins a handful of U.S. malls with anticipated annual sales of at least $1 billion. At 2.35 million square feet, it's now the largest mall in Texas and one of the five largest in the U.S., according to the International Council of Shopping Centers....It's where new stores such as American Eagle Outfitters' Martin + Osa and J. Crew spinoffs Crewcuts and Madewell will open first. And it's a beachhead for the European invasion of hot specialty stores that include Intermix and Mango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slfunk Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 i'm still trying to figure out the point of slfunk reposting the same article that 713-214 already posted .??? They are different articles. One dated yesterday one today, different titles, same author. Sorry if they say the same thing I didn't read through 713-214 posting. Touchy, Touchy...... I know I'm acting as infantile as the rest by chiming in on this, but this article lists the mall at 2.35 million square feet while the Galleria (Houston) is 3.4 million. So wouldn't that make the Galleria larger (Not that it matters either way)?I also noticed that Northpark expanded to 235 stores while the Galleria has over 375. Is this article more Dallas hype? I'm curious. In ending, I'm not a big fan of malls in general, especially trying to get in and out of the Galleria. I still think this thread is stupid which says alot for me huh? I could not tell you the exact numbers by any means, but if you go to the DMN website there is a posting of the malls and there sizes. Source from the International Council of Shopping Centers. Here's the text from the pdf. Gross leaseable area is pretty much that, the space they lease to tenants, and is not the same as the Gross Area. The leaseable area does not include the walk ways, atrium space, plazas etc. etc. So the actual building of the Houston Galleria (meaning gross area) could very well be much larger then the North Park footprint. Link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...iggestmalls.pdf TEXAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tierwestah Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 In ending, I'm not a big fan of malls in general, especially trying to get in and out of the Galleria. I still think this thread is stupid which says alot for me huh? ^^the author of that Dallas Article that 713/214 posted is the stupid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonDFW Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I know I'm acting as infantile as the rest by chiming in on this, but this article lists the mall at 2.35 million square feet while the Galleria (Houston) is 2.4 million. So wouldn't that make the Galleria larger. Not that it matters either way.Either that firm in Manhattan is measuring in a different way, or it has out of date info for the Houston Galleria. You'd think given its function it wouldn't have out of date info but screwups happen all the time.Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slfunk Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Either that firm in Manhattan is measuring in a different way, or it has out of date info for the Houston Galleria. You'd think given its function it wouldn't have out of date info but screwups happen all the time.JasonWell I just edited my post to explain the gross leaseable area versus the gross area. Gross leaseable area is essentially that; the area the landlord can lease to tenants. Gross area is essentially the sq ft of the entire building including walkways, courts, aisles, service corridors, etc. The gross leaseable area is not going to be the same number because it will NOT include the aisles, service corridors. So it is very well possible that the "gross area" of Houston Galleria is much larger then the "gross area" of North Park, but this is not what the retailers are interested in, mostly what they can lease and I am sure that is what the Manhattan firm is measuring. Heck when Stonebriar opened in Frisco, they were advertising that it was larger then the Dallas Galleria. According to the listing by "International Council of Shopping Centers" Stonebriar is four spots lower on the list then the Dallas Galleria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 They are different articles. One dated yesterday one today, different titles, same author. Sorry if they say the same thing I didn't read through 713-214 posting. Touchy, Touchy......I could not tell you the exact numbers by any means, but if you go to the DMN website there is a posting of the malls and there sizes. Source from the International Council of Shopping Centers. Here's the text from the pdf. Gross leaseable area is pretty much that, the space they lease to tenants, and is not the same as the Gross Area. The leaseable area does not include the walk ways, atrium space, plazas etc. etc. So the actual building of the Houston Galleria (meaning gross area) could very well be much larger then the North Park footprint.Link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...iggestmalls.pdfTEXAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The reason for the bad info on The Galleria is Simon itself. In a listing of it's Texas properties, it list The Galleria as 2,257,000 sf. However, a link to the fact sheet shows an expansion that added 146,000 sf, bringing it's total to 2,403,000 sf. Galleria Fact Sheet Why am I participating in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimberlySayWhat Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 JasonDFW:Anyway, onto your new topic. You know, Colorado is funny. These are generalizations, but many in Colorado don't like Texans. Sometimes there is a "go back home tourist" attitude, but the funniest thing about (and the only reason I find the topic interesting) it is that of the other 49 states, I think Colorado is the one most like Texas as far as the people. I didn't think that before I started visiting there a lot because there is another political vibe I used to get a lot. Lots of transplants there, including lots of Texans so in that way it's like Texas and perhaps that's why I get this impression. It's hard not to generalize about the state only looking at a select few cities though, as the population is so small and so scattered. Jason LOL at the Colorado thing. My daddy always told me Coloradans don't like Texans and you tend to believe everything your parents say. I've honestly never had a desire to go to Colorado. I've never been. If I want to see mountains, I'd be happy to do so in California. The snow and ski, mountain lodge with a fireplace thing this isn't for me. There's no appeal for me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The reason for the bad info on The Galleria is Simon itself. In a listing of it's Texas properties, it list The Galleria as 2,257,000 sf. However, a link to the fact sheet shows an expansion that added 146,000 sf, bringing it's total to 2,403,000 sf.Galleria Fact Sheet Why am I participating in this? Thanks Red. SO I guess we still have the biggest and bestest mall in Tejas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 SO I guess we still have the biggest and bestest mall in Tejas. Why yes, I suppose we do. I think they said there is an additional 100,000 sf scheduled to be added this spring. Since I never set foot in the place, can someone who goes to this mall confirm that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Why am I participating in this? . . .hopefully, because you think it's good to have reliable facts. I do. I view this thread as an opportunity to learn something I didn't know, or might even be interested in. (i.e. that malls differentiate based upon gross area and gross leaseable space) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Source from the International Council of Shopping Centers. Here's the text from the pdf. Gross leaseable area is pretty much that, the space they lease to tenants, and is not the same as the Gross Area. The leaseable area does not include the walk ways, atrium space, plazas etc. etc. So the actual building of the Houston Galleria (meaning gross area) could very well be much larger then the North Park footprint.OK.....there is an INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL OF SHOPPING CENTERS????? Is that anything like the United Nations? LOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I view this thread as an opportunity to learn something I didn't know, or might even be interested in. (i.e. that malls differentiate based upon gross area and gross leaseable space)That's why several of the more recent redos here have no air conditioned halls connecting stores. You have MORE gross leaseable space possible.Has ANYone had this conversation before, EVER?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 That's why several of the more recent redos here have no air conditioned halls connecting stores. You have MORE gross leaseable space possible.Has ANYone had this conversation before, EVER?? They certainly have in Big D. I do. I view this thread as an opportunity to learn something I didn't know, or might even be interested in. (i.e. that malls differentiate based upon gross area and gross leaseable space) Why 714, I thought you were the one teaching us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slfunk Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 That's why several of the more recent redos here have no air conditioned halls connecting stores. You have MORE gross leaseable space possible.Has ANYone had this conversation before, EVER??Well the people in my business (architecture) do just about every day for the longest time. We have to design spaces where the designs are always evolving to become more efficent. Discussions of what should and should not be included in leaseable space, what can be considered what by the city's building/planning departments, what should be service space, public space, parking requirements etc. etc. etc. So the term leaseable gross space is a term that is widely used when working on such projects and is just a narrower definition of gross space. You typically have gross, net, and leasable space when figuring out the numbers for real estate agents and leasing partners on the architects side. They (real estate agents, developers, leasing firms) may ask you to help figure out other numbers such as gross leaseable space while in the midst of design.But to answer your question musicman, yes we do have these conversations almost every day, and they influence the function and design of facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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