Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[SilverJK]

But then you wouldn't have scapegoat to complain about the walmart.

[Leonard]

A 380 shouldn't be a requirement to build a freaking grocery or discount store in Houston. The market should determine what gets built. 

 

The City will be getting $150K less per year just in property taxes until the 380 is paid off.  Less money, not more.  And the City still projects a deficit in the current budget. 

 

Ainbinder/Walmart would have been required to do a lot of the stuff in the 380.  Some of the stuff is just idiotic and designed to get the support of one or two people.  Balusters and paint on a bridge that is scheduled for demolition?  Idiotic.  They remove sidewalks and trees and are getting reimbursed for that.  Idiotic.  The jogging trail to nowhere?  Idiotic.  It was a perfectly fine esplanade.  The Parks dept.  didn't even know about it and strongly objected to being required to maintain it, especially in light of the fact that Parks was hard hit with layoffs and budget cuts when that was going on.  Idiotic. 

 

HEB building there would not have required a bigger 380.  Build or don't, if it's your land, do it or not. 

Silver, I really don't care about the Walmart.  I care about the 380.  I'm sorry, I guess I haven't said that  before. 

[SilverJK]

Then quit bringing up walmart... the 380 isn't their fault.  This thread is only about the Walmart invasion.  Stay on topic  (lol  jk, this thread is the walmart of off topic discussion)

[Ross]

The City will be getting $150K less per year just in property taxes until the 380 is paid off.  Less money, not more.  And the City still projects a deficit in the current budget. 

 

Which is far better than laying out all the money up front for the work the city would have been required to do. And, really, is the City getting less in taxes than  before the development? Besides, $150k in the City budget is less than what the Planning Commission wastes on historic district hearings.

[Leonard]

Ross, exactly what do you think the City would have been required to do? 

[s3mh]

Wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges.... and then your statement just keeps getting worse the more you read it.

 

Uh, do you not live in the Heights? Redevelopment is happening on almost every street in the Heights. Abandoned stores are being turned into shops and bars, and abandoned houses are being renovated into livable homes. This Walmart is providing people moving into the Heights area with better selection. If I want something more valuable, I'll go somewhere else. If I want something more locally grown, I'll go to the farmers market on Airline.

 

Dumping ground for strip mall retail?? And then you talking about the City Centre area?? HAHAHA! WOW... Uh, let's compare the amount of strip malls in the City Centre area to the amount of strip malls near this Walmart:

 

 

 

The only valid argument that I would agree with against this Walmart is the amount of traffic that has made driving on Yale unbearable.

 

You'd rather have this property remain abandoned warehouses than see it turned into a Walmart huh...

The amount of new retail and residential in the Heights is not nearly enough to make a dent in the demand on the inner loop in Houston. Also, a lot of the residential redevelopment in the Heights is merely transitional and not new housing. We are just swapping out lower income folks for higher income folks. Large acreage inside the loop, especially between the Heights and Montrose is a precious commodity that has absolutely been squandered with the Walmart development.

The strip malls you triumphantly point out that are located around City Centre mean nothing. Most pre-date City Centre. In fact, the new development I highlighted is replacing a strip center. Also, City Centre is well outside the loop with more abundant and cheap land with highway frontage. That is where strip centers should be. Inside the loop, frontage acreage around the Heights is extremly limited by comparison. Taking @35 acres of open land inside the loop and only doing strip malls/big box and one 280 unit multifamily is the definition of nearsighted development that will be regretted in the long run. But who knows. It took less than ten years before plans were underway to demo Archstone Memorial to make way for midrise multifamily. Maybe we will get lucky and this development will see a similar fate. After 10 years, most strip mall developments in Houston look very tired and lose what little luster they had when they first opened.

[SilverJK]

The strip malls you triumphantly point out that are located around City Centre mean nothing. Most pre-date City Centre.

 

 

Good point...  once these strip centers prove the demand is there, mixed use projects will invest nearby to capitalize on the demand, probably replacing some crappy warehouses or housing.  Maybe we should build a giant hospital near our neighborhood to help drive destination traffic as well.  You kinda left that part out when comparing City Centre to the Yale lot.  How tall is that Memorial Hospital Tower?

[samagon]

Wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges.... and then your statement just keeps getting worse the more you read it.

 

Uh, do you not live in the Heights? Redevelopment is happening on almost every street in the Heights. Abandoned stores are being turned into shops and bars, and abandoned houses are being renovated into livable homes. This Walmart is providing people moving into the Heights area with better selection. If I want something more valuable, I'll go somewhere else. If I want something more locally grown, I'll go to the farmers market on Airline.

 

Dumping ground for strip mall retail?? And then you talking about the City Centre area?? HAHAHA! WOW... Uh, let's compare the amount of strip malls in the City Centre area to the amount of strip malls near this Walmart:

 

 

 

The only valid argument that I would agree with against this Walmart is the amount of traffic that has made driving on Yale unbearable.

 

You'd rather have this property remain abandoned warehouses than see it turned into a Walmart huh...

The amount of new retail and residential in the Heights is not nearly enough to make a dent in the demand on the inner loop in Houston. Also, a lot of the residential redevelopment in the Heights is merely transitional and not new housing. We are just swapping out lower income folks for higher income folks. Large acreage inside the loop, especially between the Heights and Montrose is a precious commodity that has absolutely been squandered with the Walmart development.

The strip malls you triumphantly point out that are located around City Centre mean nothing. Most pre-date City Centre. In fact, the new development I highlighted is replacing a strip center. Also, City Centre is well outside the loop with more abundant and cheap land with highway frontage. That is where strip centers should be. Inside the loop, frontage acreage around the Heights is extremly limited by comparison. Taking @35 acres of open land inside the loop and only doing strip malls/big box and one 280 unit multifamily is the definition of nearsighted development that will be regretted in the long run. But who knows. It took less than ten years before plans were underway to demo Archstone Memorial to make way for midrise multifamily. Maybe we will get lucky and this development will see a similar fate. After 10 years, most strip mall developments in Houston look very tired and lose what little luster they had when they first opened.

You counter yourself in your own post, which is awesome.

[htownproud]

There is still plenty of industrial land on and around Washington if someone wants to build mixed use on it.  

[livincinco]

There is still plenty of industrial land on and around Washington if someone wants to build mixed use on it.  

 

There does seem to be quite a few abandoned warehouses is that area.  Not sure that I would categorize land availability as "extremely limited".

[s3mh]

There is still plenty of industrial land on and around Washington if someone wants to build mixed use on it.  

You will never get a centralized collection of 35 acres around Washington with the same kind of access and location as the Walmart and neighboring sites. In the 1st Ward, the rail splits into two sets of tracks, making it difficult to put together a large development. It is one thing to have RR tracks next to a development. It is another to have the development split in two by tracks. Only way it would happen is if the RR co got paid to abandon the Winter St. tracks. Just don't see that ever happening. The 1st ward industrial will gradually give way to commercial/retail/residential. However, it will be a slow and piecemeal process. There are a lot of inustrial facilities in that area that are not going anywhere any time soon.

[SilverJK]

You will never get a centralized collection of 35 acres around Washington with the same kind of access and location as the Walmart and neighboring sites. In the 1st Ward, the rail splits into two sets of tracks, making it difficult to put together a large development. It is one thing to have RR tracks next to a development. It is another to have the development split in two by tracks. Only way it would happen is if the RR co got paid to abandon the Winter St. tracks. Just don't see that ever happening. The 1st ward industrial will gradually give way to commercial/retail/residential. However, it will be a slow and piecemeal process. There are a lot of inustrial facilities in that area that are not going anywhere any time soon.

 

well since City Centre in its entire suburban style monstrous scope is just at ~ 40 acres...  I don't really think a 35 acre parcel is needed for an urban mixed use development. 

[RedScare]

The 1st ward industrial will gradually give way to commercial/retail/residential. However, it will be a slow and piecemeal process. There are a lot of inustrial facilities in that area that are not going anywhere any time soon.

 

Who wants a master planned development inside the loop anyway? We have plenty of suburban developments if that is your wish. You are rather schizophrenic in your wishes. You bash developers, then turn right around and pine for them. You express disdain for corporate chains, then turn around and praise them as good for the inner loop. Have you not a consistent bone in your body?

[august948]

Who wants a master planned development inside the loop anyway? We have plenty of suburban developments if that is your wish. You are rather schizophrenic in your wishes. You bash developers, then turn right around and pine for them. You express disdain for corporate chains, then turn around and praise them as good for the inner loop. Have you not a consistent bone in your body?

He's repressing a secret longing for suburban amenities.

[livincinco]

So forgive me if I missed something, because I really have no interest in reading all preceding 107 pages of this thread, but I'm trying to figure out when this parcel turned into such an untapped pot of gold.  Isn't this a site that has industrial on a couple of sides of it and borders a railroad track?  Looking at Google maps, it looks like the properties directly across I-10 on the Heights side are DP Dump Truck & Bob Cat Services and a couple of warehouses.  Not exactly screaming mixed use to me.

 

I get that the 380 probably should have been written better, but you guys must have a lot of free time on your hands to get so excited about this.

[SilverJK]

i'm not one for animal cruelty... but its fun to watch them continually beat this imagined dead horse.

[RedScare]

i'm not one for animal cruelty... but its fun to watch them continually beat this imagined dead horse.

 

True. I shouldn't admit that I am trolling these two...but I'm trolling these two. They are the gift that keeps on giving.

[samagon]

There is still plenty of industrial land on and around Washington if someone wants to build mixed use on it.  

You will never get a centralized collection of 35 acres around Washington with the same kind of access ...

I'm sorry, I stopped reading here. I don't think I am misremembering when you said that the Walmart site can't support the kind of traffic Walmart brings, and now you're trying to say the site had a better use as something like city center. Not sure if you've seen the traffic around the town and country area, but it dwarfs the traffic of any Walmart I've ever seen.

I suppose the city would have had to make a bigger 380 to get them to widen Yale to 3 lanes in each direction? I could only imagine how unhappy Leonard would be since they would have had to remove even more trees, and who even knows how many for hydrants would be in the middle of sidewalks!

[TGM]

Golly jeepers, then done got themselves a performance artist at the Walmarts!

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/entertainment/arts-theater/article/Walmart-s-Warhol-has-fans-in-the-shopping-lanes-4624518.php

Your move 19th street. (May I suggest a man juggling electric chain-saws)

[s3mh]

I'm sorry, I stopped reading here. I don't think I am misremembering when you said that the Walmart site can't support the kind of traffic Walmart brings, and now you're trying to say the site had a better use as something like city center. Not sure if you've seen the traffic around the town and country area, but it dwarfs the traffic of any Walmart I've ever seen.I suppose the city would have had to make a bigger 380 to get them to widen Yale to 3 lanes in each direction? I could only imagine how unhappy Leonard would be since they would have had to remove even more trees, and who even knows how many for hydrants would be in the middle of sidewalks!

City Centre made one big mistake in what is otherwise an excellent development. City Centre did not develop a true street grid. Instead, they have a single main boulevard that goes North/South through the development, but no East/West connectivity. As a result, everyone is piled into a single street inside the development. Traffic piles up easily as soon as someone stops to drop someone off, pick someone up or use a valet service. Sugar Land Town Center did a much better job with designing a street grid that flows better and does not have the traffic congestion issue. It is not a volume problem. It is a design problem. And one of the traffic issues with the Walmart development is that it limits street connectivity. The entire west side of the development is a wall. With a mixed-use development, Schuler St. could have connected all the way through to Heights and Bass could have intersected it inside the development to create a street grid instead of having all traffic exit either at Koehler or just before the grade separation.

[samagon]

I'm sorry, I stopped reading here. I don't think I am misremembering when you said that the Walmart site can't support the kind of traffic Walmart brings, and now you're trying to say the site had a better use as something like city center. Not sure if you've seen the traffic around the town and country area, but it dwarfs the traffic of any Walmart I've ever seen.I suppose the city would have had to make a bigger 380 to get them to widen Yale to 3 lanes in each direction? I could only imagine how unhappy Leonard would be since they would have had to remove even more trees, and who even knows how many for hydrants would be in the middle of sidewalks!

City Centre made one big mistake in what is otherwise an excellent development. City Centre did not develop a true street grid. Instead, they have a single main boulevard that goes North/South through the development, but no East/West connectivity. As a result, everyone is piled into a single street inside the development. Traffic piles up easily as soon as someone stops to drop someone off, pick someone up or use a valet service. Sugar Land Town Center did a much better job with designing a street grid that flows better and does not have the traffic congestion issue. It is not a volume problem. It is a design problem. And one of the traffic issues with the Walmart development is that it limits street connectivity. The entire west side of the development is a wall. With a mixed-use development, Schuler St. could have connected all the way through to Heights and Bass could have intersected it inside the development to create a street grid instead of having all traffic exit either at Koehler or just before the grade separation.

In your effort to dodge the point you didn't bother to imagine that anyone else has actually been to city center and knows you're absolutely wrong about the number of ways to get in and out of the place.

Nice effort though.

[Marksmu]

In your effort to dodge the point you didn't bother to imagine that anyone else has actually been to city center and knows you're absolutely wrong about the number of ways to get in and out of the place. Nice effort though.

 

He is right, City Centre has at least 6 ways in/out with streets on both sides of the main boulevard.  Just at the moment several of them are not open due to ongoing construction from the amazing success of the chain stores that draw people into the area to shop/eat.

[s3mh]

In your effort to dodge the point you didn't bother to imagine that anyone else has actually been to city center and knows you're absolutely wrong about the number of ways to get in and out of the place.Nice effort though.

Except that I am right. When you enter the development on Town and Country Blvd from the north, you cannot exit the development by turning left until you get to the far end of the development. Both left turns are dead ends. The first left (east) turn dead ends into a parking garage. The second dead ends into the apartment complex. There is no east/west street grid. You can get out by turning right (west), but that only gets you to a one way north bound feeder road. Anyone who wants to head south will have to go all the way through the development down to Kimberly if they do not want to have to do a u-turn at the I-10/Beltway 8 interchange. And when traffic is bad on the NB Beltway 8 feeder, it backs up into the development. The could have easily built the east side of the development to allow street connection, but didn't. A big screw up in what is otherwise a very excellent development.

[JJxvi]

Uh I don't think there is anywhere to get to by connecting up the East side is there? All that would do is shove you in a neighborhood which also restricts north south flow and is cut off from major streets on the east by the car dealership, the church, and middle school.  I fail to see how they could have set up a street grid to add much beyond simply adding a second north south corridor, is that what you are advocating?

[samagon]

It's really neither here, nor there, if you were to put the number of cars that access city centre onto Yale (which is the only 'major' road that the land that walmart is on borders), you'd need at least 3 lanes in each direction, or more.

 

And it's moot anyway, the comparison with city centre and walmart was brought up cause someone believed that city centre was the catalyst for an office building going up in the area.

 

However, now there's news released of an office building going up in the Walmart area (http://swamplot.com/a-25-story-office-tower-aimed-for-washington-and-waugh/2013-06-28/), and I submit that this office building's placement is influenced as much by the walmart as the placement of the new office building that will be going up near city centre, that is to say, little to none.

[s3mh]

Uh I don't think there is anywhere to get to by connecting up the East side is there? All that would do is shove you in a neighborhood which also restricts north south flow and is cut off from major streets on the east by the car dealership, the church, and middle school.  I fail to see how they could have set up a street grid to add much beyond simply adding a second north south corridor, is that what you are advocating?

Are you even looking at a map? If the east/west streets connected through to the east, you could get people out of the development and up to the I-10 feeder without having to deal with traffic at the I-10/Beltway 8 interchange. You would also give people wanting to go south an alternative instead of having to drive through the entire development. It is traffic engineering 101.

[s3mh]

It's really neither here, nor there, if you were to put the number of cars that access city centre onto Yale (which is the only 'major' road that the land that walmart is on borders), you'd need at least 3 lanes in each direction, or more.

 

And it's moot anyway, the comparison with city centre and walmart was brought up cause someone believed that city centre was the catalyst for an office building going up in the area.

 

However, now there's news released of an office building going up in the Walmart area (http://swamplot.com/a-25-story-office-tower-aimed-for-washington-and-waugh/2013-06-28/), and I submit that this office building's placement is influenced as much by the walmart as the placement of the new office building that will be going up near city centre, that is to say, little to none.

Three lanes in each direction? That is just silly. You have absolutely no basis to make that assertion and you know it. The volume of traffic at City Centre does not require a six lane road. It just needs a better planned street grid.

The new office building is nowhere even close to the Walmart development. The new office building I pointed out at City Centre is right next door. People using the office building will be able to walk to City Centre and people using City Centre will be able to access the ground floor retail and theater space at the new building. The two developments will be virtually seemless. If you cannot see the difference in the two, you are intentionally trying not to.

The placement of that new office building is idiotic. There is no access from the south. Anyone coming from downtown or Upper Kirby would have to either worm through the neighborhood to the west of the lot or go past the development and make a uturn at Waugh and Washington (no easy feat). That building could have been the centerpiece of a mixed use development on the Walmart tract. But we were all supposed to jump up and down with joy because we got a big parking lot instead of a vacant lot. Now, office buildings and apartment complexes are going to be crammed into all kinds of odd spots all over the neighborhood because 35+ acres of prime open land were wasted on a Walmart. Worst land use decision ever. Markets do not work.

[RedScare]

The new office building is nowhere even close to the Walmart development. 

 

If "nowhere even close" means the same as "walking distance", then I agree.

[s3mh]

If "nowhere even close" means the same as "walking distance", then I agree.

You won't see a single worker from that building trying to cross Washington at Waugh. And the issue is synergy between one development and the next. It is undeniable when a building shares a property line with City Centre that there is synergy. When a building goes up on an awkward corner on a one way street with no good access from the south and contributes nothing to the street scape of a strip mall a half mile down the street, it is undeniable that there is absolutely no synergy between the two. And it is also undeniable that it is an embarassing mess of urban development and exactly what I predicted (i.e. underbuilding readily available land leads to overbuilding in the odd remaining awkward parcels). If the Walmart land was still vacant, it could have been developed into the best mixed use development in the City. Demand is there for office, retail, and residential. But, all of that will have to get crammed into the odd nooks and crannies of the area because Walmart had to saturate the Houston market to try to steal market share from its competitors.

[SilverJK]

I bet the workers of that office will find that walmart to be rather conveinent.   Also you WILL see workers crossing washington at Waugh I gaurantee, not to go to Walmart, but to go to Star Pizza.

 

I can't even wrap my mind around the rest of your statement... as it is dizzying the mental gymnasitcs one will go through to imagine a legitimate reason why a business shouldn't have been developed.

 

 

Btw,  what you call an "embarassing mess of urban development" we call Houston.  Unplanned vibrant culture mix.