Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[august948]

I was thinking it would have been at least 8 stories, Walmart on the first floor, of course. The rest of it would work itself out from there.

As long as it has a Walmart, I'm all for it. But for the ultimate mixed use you'd have Walmart on the bottom, with a Sam's on the next level, Whole Foods on the third floor, Best Buy on the fourth, Office Max on fifth, self-storage on the sixth and seventh, and a food court on the eighth.

[s3mh]

Back in the early 2000's there were plans to redevelop the Eureka Yards into a large mixed use, and possibly transit oriented site, since its situated on right of way that METRO would like to use for both light rail and a possible commuter rail to the planned Burnet intermodal station. Some of the property on the south side has been sold for redevelopment, and townhome communities have been built that connect into cottage grove, but over 50 acres remain, plus the remaining portion on the south that has not been redeveloped closest to TC Jester and a piece of land adjacent on north line of the property that was platted for a subdivision called Stanley Park that connected out of Timbergrove, which never happened that is probably also about 10 acres or so. I think there is also many acres of vacant land on west side that could potentially connect to a Eureka Yard redevelopment also, but the main unsold portion is about 50 acres.

This isn't 2001. TS Allison put most of that property in the 100 year floodplain. The rail easement isn't going away and will certainly never be part of any light rail or commuter rail as long as Culberson or a like minded successor is in office. Road access to that tract is dismal. The T C Jester bridge makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to put in an intersection with adequate turn lanes to get people in and out of the hypothetical development. The I-10 feeder cuts off at Cottage Grove, making it impossible to have any meaningful street grid connectivity to the south. This property, if anything, just further brings home the point that the Walmart land was a huge lost opportunity.

[samagon]

This isn't 2001. TS Allison put most of that property in the 100 year floodplain. The rail easement isn't going away and will certainly never be part of any light rail or commuter rail as long as Culberson or a like minded successor is in office. Road access to that tract is dismal. The T C Jester bridge makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to put in an intersection with adequate turn lanes to get people in and out of the hypothetical development. The I-10 feeder cuts off at Cottage Grove, making it impossible to have any meaningful street grid connectivity to the south. This property, if anything, just further brings home the point that the Walmart land was a huge lost opportunity.

 

Up until your last sentence I could have SWORN you were describing the property that Walmart is currently on.

 

In other news, I needed soap and a tire pressure gauge so I went to Walmart. Sunday evening about 7:30.

 

Parking lot was decently full, lots of Audis and BMWs parked in there, I felt embarrassed to park my Subaru in the same lot, but I did it anyway instead of parking across the street in one of the other development's parking lot and risk being towed.

 

I was surprised also that traffic was so light considering the number of cars in the parking lot (and the number of people I had seen while inside), and I was also shocked that there weren't any pedestrians trying to cross under the freeway on Yale. No motorized wheelchairs either.

[s3mh]

Up until your last sentence I could have SWORN you were describing the property that Walmart is currently on.

 

In other news, I needed soap and a tire pressure gauge so I went to Walmart. Sunday evening about 7:30.

 

Parking lot was decently full, lots of Audis and BMWs parked in there, I felt embarrassed to park my Subaru in the same lot, but I did it anyway instead of parking across the street in one of the other development's parking lot and risk being towed.

 

I was surprised also that traffic was so light considering the number of cars in the parking lot (and the number of people I had seen while inside), and I was also shocked that there weren't any pedestrians trying to cross under the freeway on Yale. No motorized wheelchairs either.

 

Only a tiny finger of the NE corner of the Walmart property is in the 500 year flood plain.  The Yale St. Market is in the 100 year flood plain and a little bit in the flood way, but will only have parking on that part of the property.  None of the rest of the Walmart property is in the flood plain at all.   So, yeah.  Identical.  More than half of one property is in the 100 year flood plain and almost none of the other is in any flood plain at all. 

 

The Walmart property could have potentially had a street grid that could have connected N/S via Bonner (they did not even bother to up grade the rail crossing at Bonner) and had additional E/W grid out what is the main entrance for the development out West on Shuler and cut through to Heights to the East.  Koehler, whether Walmart or not should have been curbed and guttered all the way down to Shep to make that connection.  And there is already access to both the EB and WB I-10 feeder.  At the magic 50 acres, there isn't even a good place to put in a single turn lane to get people off of and back on to TC Jester.  Any attempt to connect with the I-10 feeder WB would just connect you to a dead end.

[Leonard]

I wonder how much Parker would have had to spend to make that 50 acres acceptable to Walmart?

 

In other news, stories about what people buy at Walmart and how crappy their cars are compared to the other Walmart shoppers's cars are SO interesting.  Please keep these kinds of stories coming, but with more detail - like the enthralling coffee stories of the past. 

 

What kind of soap?  How long have you been out of soap?  How did you feel when you used the last of the soap?  Have you washed anything with the soap yet?  What did you wash?  Did it get it clean?  When do you think you will have to buy soap again?  If you washed your car with the soap, would you feel less embarrassed? 

 

 

[august948]

I wonder how much Parker would have had to spend to make that 50 acres acceptable to Walmart?

 

It'd be zero since the current location is a much better place for a Walmart.

 

In other news, stories about what people buy at Walmart and how crappy their cars are compared to the other Walmart shoppers's cars are SO interesting.  Please keep these kinds of stories coming, but with more detail - like the enthralling coffee stories of the past. 

 

What kind of soap?  How long have you been out of soap?  How did you feel when you used the last of the soap?  Have you washed anything with the soap yet?  What did you wash?  Did it get it clean?  When do you think you will have to buy soap again?  If you washed your car with the soap, would you feel less embarrassed? 

 

I've got plenty of Walmart stories for you.  I'll tell some of them as long as you keep entertaining us with stories about fire hydrants and how much cooler HEB is.

Edited July 9, 2013 by august948

[RedScare]

Don't forget the caliper inches. Can't forget the caliper inches.

[crunchtastic]

I for one am growing increasingly upset by this constant harping on caliper inches.  Heights activists need to stop fat-shaming!!!!!!!

 

 

 

[TGM]

At the magic 50 acres, there isn't even a good place to put in a single turn lane to get people off of and back on to TC Jester. Any attempt to connect with the I-10 feeder WB would just connect you to a dead end.

The Magic 50 acres can be accessed from the various back roads off of old Hempstead Hwy, 11th st, etc. There is no looming crisis of accessibility to this area.

Hopefully they'll give them the mineral rights so they can tap the Eureka Heights field some day.

[RedScare]

Yeah, looks plenty accessible to me. Just another overreaction by our favorite overreactor.

[TGM]

Time for a new cause for the over-reactors. There is a tower project in the Museum-Binz area that needs a' stopping.

Even better: They already have cool protest posters featuring the required building with arms and thick eyebrows.

[august948]

Time for a new cause for the over-reactors. There is a tower project in the Museum-Binz area that needs a' stopping.

Even better: They already have cool protest posters featuring the required building with arms and thick eyebrows.

Hahaha...in the very first sentence of the overview on the stop parc binz website they state it's a 6 story building. Who defines a 6 story building as a "Hi-Rise"? One block away there is a large 4 story apartment complex. On google maps you can clearly see The Parklane looming nearby. I don't see any burly arms or bushy eyebrows on it. Edited July 9, 2013 by august948

[Leonard]

maybe the fire dept? 

[s3mh]

The Magic 50 acres can be accessed from the various back roads off of old Hempstead Hwy, 11th st, etc. There is no looming crisis of accessibility to this area.

image.jpg

Hopefully they'll give them the mineral rights so they can tap the Eureka Heights field some day.

 

Except that isn't the magic 50 acres.  That is a different tract (two tracts, one is @4-5 acres and looks to already be divided for townhome development, the other @20-21 acres).  And even if it was, I do not think you will find many investors willing to put up the big money for a development that is only accessible through "back roads" through heavily industrial area of town.  The traffic counts developers want to see aren't going to include trains and 18 wheelers.  These tracts have no potential for mixed use development.  They will either be another townhome farm or apartment complex.  That far west towards 610 is still too industrial and does not have anywhere near the kind of residential and retail development that surrounds the Walmart tract.

 

The magic 50 acres is this property: 0440820000565 (HCAD account no.).  The only access to 11th is through a little Timbergrove subdivision.  I already pointed out the futility of trying to construct a street grid to the south.   There is simply no good way to get access to the west.  It is pretty much land locked on the western side of the tract.  Access to T C Jester is extremely difficult because the bridge goes right over the property.  You would have to widen TC jester to get a turn lane in both directions.  It would really be the only good entrance to the development and would be jammed with traffic. 

[JJxvi]

Regardless of the feasibility in your mind, the fact is that there has been talk of a large development at this location in the past 10 years similar to the possibilities at the Hardy Yards redevelopment. I myself have some of the same misgivings and do know the area having lived within a stones throw of it from within Timbergrove, but that doesn't change the fact that such things were talked about, unlike the Trinity Steel site about which I never heard any talks of anything but a retail center.

Edited July 9, 2013 by JJxvi

[samagon]

I wonder how much Parker would have had to spend to make that 50 acres acceptable to Walmart?

 

In other news, stories about what people buy at Walmart and how crappy their cars are compared to the other Walmart shoppers's cars are SO interesting.  Please keep these kinds of stories coming, but with more detail - like the enthralling coffee stories of the past. 

 

What kind of soap?  How long have you been out of soap?  How did you feel when you used the last of the soap?  Have you washed anything with the soap yet?  What did you wash?  Did it get it clean?  When do you think you will have to buy soap again?  If you washed your car with the soap, would you feel less embarrassed? 

 

Glad you asked.

 

Standard soap, nothing special, ivory I think, something unscented that gets the body clean, honestly, I don't look at the name, just surf the soap isle for unscented and cheap.

 

I wasn't out of soap, just down to 1 bar left in the stockpile, I buy the family pack for maximum payload.

 

I haven't used the last of the soap yet, but I felt worried when I grabbed a fresh bar and there was just one bar remaining in the closet, I imagine if I hadn't restocked my supply, I'd convince myself that using dishwashing detergent wasn't as much of a horrible idea as it really sounds like it is.

 

Once I finish the last bar of the old supply, I'll break out this new supply, so no, it is unopened.

 

NA.

 

NA.

 

I'll buy more soap when I'm down to one bar left in the stockpile I currently have. 

 

I'd feel more embarrassed if I used body soap on my car, the formulation of soap they use in soap formulated for cars is designed to remove dirt without removing or damaging the clearcoat. It's very likely that after repeated use, the clearcoat would begin to peel and would damage the paint on the car horribly.

 

It's important to note there are very few places inside the loop one can purchase body soap and a tire pressure gauge in one stop, Target being one, and this Walmart being the other. As ingress and egress from the Target parking lot is horrible, and they never have enough cash registers open at Target, I prefer Walmart for my one stop shopping location.

Edited July 9, 2013 by samagon

[TGM]

And even if it was, I do not think you will find many investors willing to put up the big money for a development that is only accessible through "back roads" through heavily industrial area of town. The traffic counts developers want to see aren't going to include trains and 18 wheelers. These tracts have no potential for mixed use development. They will either be another townhome farm or apartment complex. That far west towards 610 is still too industrial and does not have anywhere near the kind of residential and retail development that surrounds the Walmart tract.

Apparently the developers and residents did not get your memo in time before they developed and purchased the homes in Timbergrove Point. Back roads, too industrial, 18 wheelers, etc are all present in the area surrounding this development. Also worth noting is that the Silber Walmart is only minutes away...

[Leonard]

wait -  what - you mean you can get to the silber walmart from inside the loop???????  umpossible. 

[s3mh]

Regardless of the feasibility in your mind, the fact is that there has been talk of a large development at this location in the past 10 years similar to the possibilities at the Hardy Yards redevelopment. I myself have some of the same misgivings and do know the area having lived within a stones throw of it from within Timbergrove, but that doesn't change the fact that such things were talked about, unlike the Trinity Steel site about which I never heard any talks of anything but a retail center.

 

Just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  It is in the public record with the early submissions to the City.  And just because some clowns talk up crazy development ideas does not mean that the ideas are feasible or that the land is appropriate.  There is no reasonable argument that the magic 50 acres could be developed into a mixed use development in the current commercial environment and absent some sort of crazy Dubai-esque growth inside the loop.  Thus, the Walmart acreage still stands as a huge opportunity lost with no comparable parcel available inside the loop that can serve both the Greater Heights and Upper Kirby area.

[s3mh]

Apparently the developers and residents did not get your memo in time before they developed and purchased the homes in Timbergrove Point. Back roads, too industrial, 18 wheelers, etc are all present in the area surrounding this development. Also worth noting is that the Silber Walmart is only minutes away...

image.jpg

 

And that is why I said that the property will end up being a town home farm and not a large mixed use project.  Apparently you did not read my post at all.

[JJxvi]

I am kinda confuzzled now about whether the problem with the Trinity Steel parcel was that access was too poor for a WalMart or too good for a WalMart.

[Leonard]

The problem with the Trinity Steel site was Parker gave the developer $6M to build something they said they would build anyway.  And she and her administration lied and lied about it.   And the promised infrastructure is super crappy.  The question is WHY? 

[livincinco]

Let's see...what's happening in Houston right now...

 

Residential and office developments popping up all over town. 

Downtown is starting to boom including several new skyscrapers.

Three light rail lines under construction.

Several parks under renovation

 

Forget all that boring stuff...LET'S TALK ABOUT WALMART!

[s3mh]

I am kinda confuzzled now about whether the problem with the Trinity Steel parcel was that access was too poor for a WalMart or too good for a WalMart.

 

Different issues.  The 50 acres does not have the opportunity to create an interconnected street grid with the rest of the neighborhood.  It would be a big blob with only one point in and out.  It would not integrate at all with the surrounding neighborhood.  The Walmart site could have been divided up into several blocks, creating a street grid that would integrate well with the existing neighborhood.  Instead, the west side of the development is a brick wall.  Bonner does not even cross the RR tracks and nothing was done to improve Koehler to provide any connectivity to the west. 

 

And then there is simply the issue of location.  Developers want big traffic counts and proximity to a thriving trade area.  The 50 acres is next to a very industrial area that is very, very slowly being redeveloped.  The Walmart tract is right off of a major highway and between to thriving trade areas (Heights/Upper Kirby).   

[s3mh]

Let's see...what's happening in Houston right now...

 

Residential and office developments popping up all over town. 

Downtown is starting to boom including several new skyscrapers.

Three light rail lines under construction.

Several parks under renovation

 

Forget all that boring stuff...LET'S TALK ABOUT WALMART!

 

This is a very relevant and timely debate about development inside the loop and lessons learned or ignored by the Walmart.  Costco is asking for a 2.5 mil 380 agreement to build outside the city limits.  The lessons of the Walmart 380 are very much in play and worthy of discussion.  The inner loop multifamily boom raises the issue of whether the Walmart was a lost opportunity to build mixed use inside the loop given the dwindling amount of land available.  And then there is the fact that it is a free country and no one made you read this thread.

[RedScare]

I didn't realize that Walmart built on the last available parcel for multifamily. That changes everything!!!

[TGM]

And that is why I said that the property will end up being a town home farm and not a large mixed use project. Apparently you did not read my post at all.

Read but ignored. Mixed use is a joke in a city that has the land and space not to offer compromises in retail and residential spaces. Mixed use is fine when you're stacked like rats, because it's the only option.

When I see it here I either think, "awe, an architect got someone to believe his charrette of how people will use it" or "wow, a developer used a token ground-floor retail space to negotiate for what he was really after." Either way you have a jack of all trades, master of none compromise, built on an east-coast "we're out of space" city model.

Edited July 9, 2013 by TGM

[livincinco]

This is a very relevant and timely debate about development inside the loop and lessons learned or ignored by the Walmart.  Costco is asking for a 2.5 mil 380 agreement to build outside the city limits.  The lessons of the Walmart 380 are very much in play and worthy of discussion.  The inner loop multifamily boom raises the issue of whether the Walmart was a lost opportunity to build mixed use inside the loop given the dwindling amount of land available.  And then there is the fact that it is a free country and no one made you read this thread.

 

This is a 3200+ post obsession with how 50 acres inside one of the least dense cities in the country was utilized.  You are absolutely correct that it's a free country and I retain the right to make fun of the fact that this discussion continues when the thread should have died a year ago.

[poyea]

YAWN!!! Can we just let this thing die already?

[TGM]

YAWN!!! Can we just let this thing die already?

It died the day Walmart opened, but the RUDH folks bit it, re-animated it with the bridge argument, and now it walks around in a zombie stupor muttering "brains, 380, and Ainbinder."