The Heights Historic Districts

[swtsig]

in soviet russia, window replace you!

[s3mh]

Translation: You think living in Russia is bad? We could force you to live in China, instead!

 

Translation:  Can't answer the question, avoid the issue with a snarky remark. 

 

But, I am serious.  It is very much possible to reconstruct the old windows.  The HAHC and the ordinance make a compromise and allows people to just put in a new wood window when the old window has rotted away.  But if the only reason for replacing the old windows is that you want better performing new windows, then you will have to get a COA and show that there is no difference in the appearance of the new windows. 

[Marksmu]

Truly disgusting that we are even debating whether or not a person can have F*ING permission to replace their OWN DARN WINDOWS.

 

I would do it and raise my middle finger to the snotty busy bodies who complain about it.  This is an absolute TRAVESTY!  It literally makes me sick. 

 

 

[fwki]

Half truths are whole lies. - Yiddish Proverb

Gafrick emphasizes visual compatibility from the street is the metric, not condition of the existing element. She says it's ok to use different materials but does not say doing so is automatically an alteration and needs COA wherein they will tell you you need to repair it unless it's been stolen. Her statements then were intentionally misleading and that is a lie.

[SilverJK]

This is rediculous.  I think the new slogan should be   "HAHC wants to kill Polar Bears"

 

 

(my gross exaggeration is almost as rediculous as the HAHC)

 

s3mh,   you can make them better for sure (as I have done on several of my current house's and my brother's old bungalow), but compared to new windows... not even close.  It is laughable that you even think it is comparable.  I have 20 windows in my 1300 sq. ft house... one of them being ~ 8' tall by 10' wide.  This one was added at some point (probably in the 50-60s judging by its style).  If I was in the district, would I need to get a COA to replace that one?  I also have several triple windows  (three windows in one set with the middle being slightly bigger) that are orginal.  These are the kinds of windows that would greatly benefit from upgrading.  Yes you can (and I do) use thermal curtains and have blinds and etc., but now in a roundabout way i'm being told how to decorate...

[RedScare]

Translation:  Can't answer the question, avoid the issue with a snarky remark. 

 

But, I am serious.  It is very much possible to reconstruct the old windows.  The HAHC and the ordinance make a compromise and allows people to just put in a new wood window when the old window has rotted away.  But if the only reason for replacing the old windows is that you want better performing new windows, then you will have to get a COA and show that there is no difference in the appearance of the new windows. 

 

You may be serious, but you are seriously wrong.

 

The HAHC makes NO compromises. The proposed compromise from Gaffrick was that old windows could be replaced with new ones that look the same. However, the HAHC now does not approve replacement windows unless the old window cannot be repaired. That is not a compromise. That is tightening the screws.

 

Further, your belief that one can simply replace a rotted window without a CoA is laughably wrong. NOTHING can be done to the house without a CoA. Replacement of a rotted window must be approved. Of course, it likely won't be, but you have to ask. The only thing that does not require a CoA is having old windows rehabbed or repaired. Replacement requires a CoA.

 

As for my translation, there was no question that I was answering. I was comparing your "it could have been worse" comment to the choice between two miserable options. But, you do not seem to have the logic skills to get my comparison, just as you do not seem to understand what HAHC has done to the historic ordinance.

[RedScare]

This is rediculous.  I think the new slogan should be   "HAHC wants to kill Polar Bears"

 

 

(my gross exaggeration is almost as rediculous as the HAHC)

 

s3mh,   you can make them better for sure (as I have done on several of my current house's and my brother's old bungalow), but compared to new windows... not even close.  It is laughable that you even think it is comparable.  I have 20 windows in my 1300 sq. ft house... one of them being ~ 8' tall by 10' wide.  This one was added at some point (probably in the 50-60s judging by its style).  If I was in the district, would I need to get a COA to replace that one?  I also have several triple windows  (three windows in one set with the middle being slightly bigger) that are orginal.  These are the kinds of windows that would greatly benefit from upgrading.  Yes you can (and I do) use thermal curtains and have blinds and etc., but now in a roundabout way i'm being told how to decorate...

 

If you were in the HD, you would be told that you cannot replace that window at all.

 

If you are able to convince the HAHC that the 8x10 window was added later, and as such is not original, you might be able to return to original. However, they don't just take your word for it. You need proof, such as old photos.

[SilverJK]

which is why my window may or may not miraculously change over the weekend...  got it.

[RedScare]

which is why my window may or may not miraculously change over the weekend...  got it.

 

That would be my recommendation. Black market renovations are the only way around a capricious and arbitrary governmental commission. If you get caught, plead ignorance. Even s3mh got it wrong. The usual punishment is to go through the HAHC, and they usually approve, rather than make you tear it out.

Edited April 22, 2013 by RedScare

[s3mh]

You may be serious, but you are seriously wrong.

 

The HAHC makes NO compromises. The proposed compromise from Gaffrick was that old windows could be replaced with new ones that look the same. However, the HAHC now does not approve replacement windows unless the old window cannot be repaired. That is not a compromise. That is tightening the screws.

 

Further, your belief that one can simply replace a rotted window without a CoA is laughably wrong. NOTHING can be done to the house without a CoA. Replacement of a rotted window must be approved. Of course, it likely won't be, but you have to ask. The only thing that does not require a CoA is having old windows rehabbed or repaired. Replacement requires a CoA.

 

As for my translation, there was no question that I was answering. I was comparing your "it could have been worse" comment to the choice between two miserable options. But, you do not seem to have the logic skills to get my comparison, just as you do not seem to understand what HAHC has done to the historic ordinance.

 

I never said you do not need a COA to replace a rotted window with a new one.  I said that if the window is not rotted, you cannot just flip them out with a new wood window.  That was never promised by anyone.  But, some people now think that they are entitled to start taking apart their homes and replacing them with what they think is close enough to the original architecture.  The HAHC exists to make sure that the original architecture is preserved.  New windows can seriously destroy the architecture of the original housing.  Just look at the ones with vinyl or aluminum replacement windows.  The wood replacement windows aren't bad, but the original windows should be preserved if they are not rotted.  If they are rotted and the homeowner does not want to rebuild them, the homeowner should have to get approval of the replacements to make sure people do not start sticking in replacements that are inappropriate. 

[s3mh]

This is rediculous.  I think the new slogan should be   "HAHC wants to kill Polar Bears"

 

 

(my gross exaggeration is almost as rediculous as the HAHC)

 

s3mh,   you can make them better for sure (as I have done on several of my current house's and my brother's old bungalow), but compared to new windows... not even close.  It is laughable that you even think it is comparable.  I have 20 windows in my 1300 sq. ft house... one of them being ~ 8' tall by 10' wide.  This one was added at some point (probably in the 50-60s judging by its style).  If I was in the district, would I need to get a COA to replace that one?  I also have several triple windows  (three windows in one set with the middle being slightly bigger) that are orginal.  These are the kinds of windows that would greatly benefit from upgrading.  Yes you can (and I do) use thermal curtains and have blinds and etc., but now in a roundabout way i'm being told how to decorate...

 

You have never seen what the Sash Guy and others can do with the old windows.  Once repaired and properly fitting, they add insulation at all the points where you usually see energy leaking.  The new windows are superior in energy efficiency, but they are also very expensive compared to refurbishing and adding insulation to the old windows.  On a cost basis, there is very little advantage to replacing v. refurbishing/insulating the existing windows because the new windows are so expensive by comparison. 

[SilverJK]

You have never seen what the Sash Guy and others can do with the old windows.  Once repaired and properly fitting, they add insulation at all the points where you usually see energy leaking.  The new windows are superior in energy efficiency, but they are also very expensive compared to refurbishing and adding insulation to the old windows.  On a cost basis, there is very little advantage to replacing v. refurbishing/insulating the existing windows because the new windows are so expensive by comparison. 

 

Actually I have seen what they do... and while nice, you can't change the insulation value of the glass...  a house like mine with a crap ton (technical term) of glass will never be able to get close to what it would if I used modern windows.  Let's not even get in to the whole single pane "sweating" issue and problems that can arise from them.  On a "cost basis" it would be very advantagous if people didn't have to jump through stupid hoops to change out their freaking windows. 

 

Red I have a question...  let's say I changed out some windows in the back of my house... a nosy neighbor calls it in but the work is all done on Saturday... how can the city get through my fences to see the work?  Would they actually get a warrant to get on to my property or do they have some other mechanism to penalize you for denial of access?  I've always been baffled by this...

[august948]

Red I have a question...  let's say I changed out some windows in the back of my house... a nosy neighbor calls it in but the work is all done on Saturday... how can the city get through my fences to see the work?  Would they actually get a warrant to get on to my property or do they have some other mechanism to penalize you for denial of access?  I've always been baffled by this...

I don't know if they would go this far, but I know from experience with fighting my HCAD appraisal that HCAD at least has access to some very detailed satellite photos. I was surprised at the detail of the back of my house and of my backyard that they could pull up while discussing my appraisal. Theoretically, the city could get access to similar images, though I'm not sure they would.

[RedScare]

They might just go to nosy neighbor's house and look that way. But, realistically, no one cares about the back of your house. I'm not even sure that HAHC would care about windows back there. They are obsessed with the front, and a little bit of the sides.

 

On a side note, I am watching a neighbor completely redo his hideous looking house with even more hideous looking windows and hardie siding. It is hilarious, as there is no way that any of this could have gone through HAHC or permitting. No one on our street is a snitch, so it keeps going up, but we all gather in a neighbor's yard and laugh at it each evening.

[Ross]

I never said you do not need a COA to replace a rotted window with a new one.  I said that if the window is not rotted, you cannot just flip them out with a new wood window.  That was never promised by anyone.  But, some people now think that they are entitled to start taking apart their homes and replacing them with what they think is close enough to the original architecture.  The HAHC exists to make sure that the original architecture is preserved.  New windows can seriously destroy the architecture of the original housing.  Just look at the ones with vinyl or aluminum replacement windows.  The wood replacement windows aren't bad, but the original windows should be preserved if they are not rotted.  If they are rotted and the homeowner does not want to rebuild them, the homeowner should have to get approval of the replacements to make sure people do not start sticking in replacements that are inappropriate. 

 

The HAHC exists solely to provide a means for control freak busybodies to enforce their aesthetic views on others with the backing of the police power of the City of Houston. From the videos I've seen, they do nothing to further any historic preservation.

 

So what if new windows don't meet your aesthetic view of how the world should look. It's not your property, and you should have zero say in what the owner does to it.

 

Bew windows do not hurt the historical nature of a house. There are no historic houses in the Heights, merely older than average ones.

 

The only arbiter of what is or isn't correct for the appearance of a house is the owner. The City's only interest is life safety and weather resistance. If you want more control, convince your neighbors to agree to deed restrictions.

[fwki]

There's a hidden agenda at play to twist the original intent of the ordinance that was sold to the citizens and to City Council into a form resembling severe back door-zoning.  Watch the video of the first appeal to Planning wherein they deferred the decision and then read the agenda for Thursday's re-hearing.  The Director of Lies was forced to admit to the PC that they sold this PoS ordinance based on window replacement, for one, because Sue Lovell was there as a witness ready to rat her out.  It went downhill from there for the Director.  She even propped some "citizens" of the Heights to speak of their love for old, crappy windows.  One guy was Deed Restrictions enforcer for the fake Norhill up north.  The other was, get this, a professional urban planning consultant who lives in a 1996 construction near the home at risk and will absolutely kill himself if those dear windows are even washed.  Yeah, no conflict of interest there Marlene, future client.

 

So it's clear the PC is very concerned about what was sold to the Council and what is now in play.  They talked about the original intent of the ordinance when it was voted and that the HAHC was setting a new precedent.  Then look at the new game plan for the Director of Lies: she goes right at the precedent-setting theme and says if they allow these windows, the whole ordinance is toast....it won't be long before we are taking our weather vanes and putting new houses underneath.  She has raised the stakes with a big gamble, because if she wins, we become a radically zoned neighborhood with her calling the shots.  Is she loses she will have lost because of her lies, stuck with the flexibility she promised years ago but obviously loathes now.

[barracuda]

I just learned of a new requirement. You must present at least a pound of termite frass to the commission in order to get approval for wood window replacement.

[briekelman]

Who is able to come Thursday - on both sides of this issue? I will be there speaking in support of the owner, as someone who likes and has 2 houses with 1920 windows.

 

The only way we can make an impact in the short-term under the current regime is to go to the public meetings and show our support. I was out of town for the appeal, so I couldn't go 2 weeks ago. However, I am in town now and will take off work Thursday to go.

 

This woman needs us b/c the opposition will likely have many more people there to talk against again. It all comes down to a vote, and human nature tends to go with the majority of what you hear, in the moment....if someone on the commission thinks she should be able to replace her windows, but hears 4 neighbors saying they don't want her to be able to do it, then that could sway their vote against her...."well, I would be ok with her replacing the windows, and the ordinance does allow it, and the director promised the neighborhood that they could do it, BUT it sounds like the neighborhood doesn't want her to do it, and I don't want to vote AGAINST the neighborhood...." etc, etc, etc.

 

Who's coming? 

 

(Private message me if you don't feel comfortable posting publicly.)

[briekelman]

justice prevailed again! they granted her approval to replace her windows. it was a nail-biter, and the final vote was 7-5. i will post the video when it becomes available. congratulations to the owner!

[fwki]

HAHC on the run, Planning Commission getting fed up with having to clean up after them.  HAHC gets house-broken or they get relegated to the dog house....nice legacy Phoebe, hate to see ya go just when it was getting fun. 

[TGM]

HAHC on the run, Planning Commission getting fed up with having to clean up after them. HAHC gets house-broken or they get relegated to the dog house....nice legacy Phoebe, hate to see ya go just when it was getting fun.

I'd say a little Perestroika is in order for the HAHC Apparatchiks.

[briekelman]

it's up!

 

http://houstontx.swagit.com/play/04252013-644

 

Click Item III

 

 

 

[Ross]

So, we have dozens of people sitting around a room discussing window replacements for an hour, after another session a while back, and after another group of people discussed the same thing. What a crock. Congratulations to the applicant on successfully navigating the minefield of public process. She should not have had to do that.

[briekelman]

hey everyone...the banter has been pretty quiet lately (I'm going through a bit of withdrawl!).

 

I don't really have much interesting to say, other than to let folks know that there is a Historic Preservation Fair on Saturday. I have read up on how to make old windows as energy efficient (or more?) as new windows, but I want to hear what the group has to say about it since I'm keeping my old windows, as well as how easy the process is to get a CoA in Historic Districts. I also want to shake hands with and meet several of the key players that had a big voice in my CoA process. I actually consider myself a preservationist and spend my weekends trolling through local antique shops to find things like old 1920's doors and light fixtures. I was painted a bit differently by a lot of people (a destroyer or historic material), which is quite unfortunate. 

 

See the agenda below. If you end up going to, I hope we cross paths and please introduce yourself (my photo is on my profile and there are videos of my cases in earlier posts)!

 

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/HistoricPres/docs_pdfs/hist_pres_fair_sked_2013.pdf

[fwki]

My next move (aftertheroof) is windows.  I'm not in the district, but after the Planning Commission ruling on April 25th (based on past HAHC rulings and Gafrick's words during her 2010 sales pitch) , those in the district should have a much easier time with window CoA.   I have 29 including French doors etc.  The six vinyl windows in the 1990 add-on are absolute crap and will be replaced.  I would say 12 are from the1920's original house and the rest from undated additions.  The twelve are inoperable and you really can't see through those with melted glass.  Glass drips after so many years and must be replaced if you care to see through it.  I would love to have working windows with screens, but for that kind of money, I'm going with new, high tech....double pane with alarm-armed screens.  I gave all my original screen frames away to someone with handy skills years ago knowing full well they were in better hands.  Lots to think about.

[Marksmu]

My next move (aftertheroof) is windows.  I'm not in the district, but after the Planning Commission ruling on April 25th (based on past HAHC rulings and Gafrick's words during her 2010 sales pitch) , those in the district should have a much easier time with window CoA.   I have 29 including French doors etc.  The six vinyl windows in the 1990 add-on are absolute crap and will be replaced.  I would say 12 are from the1920's original house and the rest from undated additions.  The twelve are inoperable and you really can't see through those with melted glass.  Glass drips after so many years and must be replaced if you care to see through it.  I would love to have working windows with screens, but for that kind of money, I'm going with new, high tech....double pane with alarm-armed screens.  I gave all my original screen frames away to someone with handy skills years ago knowing full well they were in better hands.  Lots to think about.

 

Little known fact - glass is actually a liquid...not a solid.  Its just an extremely slow flowing liquid.

[s3mh]

  Glass drips after so many years and must be replaced if you care to see through it. 

 

All of one of my windows are original.  I cannot see any evidence of the glass flowing and have no problem seeing out them.  I have been in buildings from the 18th century that had original windows.  You can see just fine through them.  The only evidence of the age is a rumple at the bottom of the window where the glass is starting to accumulate as it falls.  Glass from the 1920s will be stronger than glass from the 18th century and will hardly flow at all over decades. 

[JJxvi]

Glass is not a liquid and it generally does not flow.

[SilverJK]

All of one of my windows are original.  I cannot see any evidence of the glass flowing and have no problem seeing out them.  I have been in buildings from the 18th century that had original windows.  You can see just fine through them.  The only evidence of the age is a rumple at the bottom of the window where the glass is starting to accumulate as it falls.  Glass from the 1920s will be stronger than glass from the 18th century and will hardly flow at all over decades. 

 

If you can't see evidence of the glass flowing and your house is from the 20s,  your even more clueless about historic homes that I previously thought.  There are blatant signs on all of my orig. windows (i think there are 20), I can see through all of them just fine, but to say there is no evidence would be an outright lie.  (btw, that "rumple" you are seeing is most likely a sign of flowing...)

[SilverJK]

btw,  what i'm considering glass flow is not the same as Marksmu...   the glass does not actually "flow" but due to the nature of the glass becomes more wavy and distorted.  Glass is not a liquid, that is a myth.