Wilshire Village Apartments At 1701 W. Alabama St.

[jtmbin]

Typical of a bunch of Houstonians to all agree that these apartments are beyond repair. This is why our city sucks when it comes to issues like saving, well, anything. I've had many friends live there over the last 20 yrs, most of them architecture students. The units are fantastic. Art Deco, Moderne and just groovy. AND NewsFlash: People still live there. The complex could be redeveloped into condos. Expensive, probably. People pay good money for all the Perry crap all over Montrose, surely people would be willing to pay for an updated condo in a perfect location, with units in buildings that are not built three feet away from each other. The grounds and trees are like nothing else left in Montrose. The problem is the lack of precident in this backward thinking town. Redevelopment of this complex would be a no-brainer in Chicago or Seattle or NYC, but Houstonians STILL don't get it.

No need to give me any lectures about being a Houstonian, I was born here.

[bachanon]

unfortunately, jtmbin, the people with money to invest are not necessarily the same people with an interest in redeveloping properties like this. investment groups and private investors require a certain increase on their monies in a short amount of time. restoring a property like this would require patience, conviction, and less return on the initial investment.

unfortunate, but true.

[jtmbin]

unfortunately, jtmbin, the people with money to invest are not necessarily the same people with an interest in redeveloping properties like this.  investment groups and private investors require a certain increase on their monies in a short amount of time.  restoring a property like this would require patience, conviction, and less return on the initial investment.

unfortunate, but true. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Patience? Yes. Conviction? Yes. Less return? Whatever makes you believe that? It will only take the right business plan, but developers here are not savvy enough to put together the type of deal on project like this that would attract investors.

Developers here are by and large a lazy bunch who have no desire to modify the status quo. It hasn't always been this way - witness the Allen Brothers, you know? George Mitchell and Gerald Hines were developers who saw opportunity where no one else did. Even Randall Davis was a virtual pioneer compared to the new breed.

It's endemic to current Houston culture. It's why we are still arguing about the benefits of rail transit and still building 24 lane highways while the rest of the world watches in amazement. There is a lack of vision, lack of ideas, and lack of education in too many of the people who are in the position of actually affecting what gets built in this town.

Every where I go in Houston, at every party, every event - every day people are talking about urban living in one degree or another. On this very site, it's talked to death every day. All across the country, cities are DOING all the things that we discuss on this site everyday, but Houston's most prominent developers, politicians, and investors don't seem to have a clue.

I don't mean to sound so negative, but every time I go out of town I find myself disgusted when I get back here and realize how far behind Houston is, and that it will probably not be the kind of city that I want it to be in my life time.

Just got back from two weeks in Seattle. I hadn't been there in seven years and the progress has been nothing short of amazing. How does a city of half a million people pass a $200,000,000.00 bond to build libraries when the 4th largest city in America barely managed to pass one for $40M?

I think your comment illustrates exactly what I meant to begin with, You actually believe that there are no investors that would invest in redeveloping that project. Too many people here think that way. Investors want to make money. Put together the right deal and the money will come. There are plenty of institutional investors and REITs that are not all looking for a quick buck. They are looking for a good investment.

[Guest danax]

Great couple of posts, jtmbin. Those buildings probably only need some updates and maybe some minor structural and I too believe there would be a demand for them as ultra-cool "urban-chic" historic condos but we're programmed to think that there's no way it would work here and that it is "not economically viable". Sigh.......The problem this time is someone wants the land for something completely different.

[bachanon]

i'm glad to hear that there are investors and plans that would make such a restoration possible. i based my opinion of a necessary lower, longer return on investment from an article i read in metropolis (i think, or maybe architectural record). this particular article discussed an area of downtown albuquerque where investors, architects and urban planners had put together a business plan that would allow for a longer, smaller return on their investment with the hopes of turning around an particular area (read, increase property values) by restoring and reusing older buildings for various purposes. some of these investors also owned other nearby properties that would appreciate if the project succeeded (it appeared that it was beginning to succeed).

outside of that article, i've not read about financing plans for successful reuse projects. i have witnessed the apparent success of the hogg palace lofts, the rice and other historic downtown buildings, but nothing of 1940s to 1950s era apartments

i appreciate your input on this subject. apparently, we need some cynicism in this area.

[jtmbin]

i'm glad to hear that there are investors and plans that would make such a restoration possible.  i based my opinion of a necessary lower, longer return on investment from an article i read in metropolis (i think, or maybe architectural record).  this particular article discussed an area of downtown albuquerque where investors, architects and urban planners had put together a business plan that would allow for a longer, smaller return on their investment with the hopes of turning around an particular area (read, increase property values) by restoring and reusing older buildings for various purposes.  some of these investors also owned other nearby properties that would appreciate if the project succeeded (it appeared that it was beginning to succeed).

outside of that article, i've not read about financing plans for successful reuse projects.  i have witnessed the apparent success of the hogg palace lofts, the rice and other historic downtown buildings, but nothing of 1940s to 1950s era apartments

i appreciate your input on this subject.  apparently, we need some cynicism in this area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me frustrated. I renovated several Heights, Montrose,and Garden Oaks homes for clients back in the 90's that had been listed as teardowns because that's what the realtors "decided". Every one of them is not only still there, but all of them have at least doubled in value over what my clients spent both buying and renovating them. They were rather high-end renovations which is why they are still around. The Wilshire Village apartments are no different. I would gladly buy a couple of them as-is for my own use and a couple more to renovate for re-sell. I can literally think of at least a dozen other people who would buy units there to renovate themselves (mostly other architects), and others who would buy a renovated unit. There is no place like it with the space between buildings, the trees, history, and that location. It's the vision thing.

[dbigtex56]

Another factor is that the current owner has been described as 'eccentric' (among other things). This could either be a curse or a blessing, depending on how much he likes the person approaching him. He has a reputation for not returning phone calls, or flatly refusing to rent to seemingly qualified people.

On the other hand, he also has been known to rent at extremely reasonable rates to people he likes. His whims are as important as any practical considerations.

[The New Juniper]

I don't mean to sound so negative, but every time I go out of town I find myself disgusted when I get back here and realize how far behind Houston is, and that it will probably not be the kind of city that I want it to be in my life time.

Couldn't agree with you more. Problem is: Recognizing Houston is so far behind, what can be done to remedy the situation? You can't force-feed the public multi-level retail/residential no matter how sense it makes if they won't accept it.

New urbanism and like theories make great sense. However, Houston is a vehicular town that wants to park in front and walk in to the big box Wal-mart, etc. It is tremendously frustrating as we are making very poor use of our land because of it.

This lack of willingness of our population to evolve with the rest of the world also hinders the architecture and creativity of new projects. It is an endless cycle.

You can't blame developers for lack of imagination. They know what would be the highest and best use for good land. Problem is, they can't be successful doing these creative projects. So, for now, it is Circuit City and Best Buy, EIFS facades with brick bands for accents. It is awful, but an awful reality.

TNJ

[kjb434]

^^^

good point

Developers do realized that a dense development as mixed-used would get the most money, but if people won't buy into it he'll lose.

The whole mixed used concept to a developer is maximizing profits, but a customer needs to be there to buy into it.

[dbigtex56]

For those who are unfamiliar with the term (as I was) - EIFS is an acronym for Exterior Insulation and Finish Systems (had to Google it).

As an aside, the first Google sponsored ad next to the results was for a law firm...guess EIFS are not universally beloved.

[winlowplacer]

Hi-

I'm wondering if this post is still active. I live four blocks from this proposed development and am wondering what the latest plans are....

Thanks for any help you can give

[citykid09]

I had forgotten all about this one. I hope its still being built! Hopefully someone else knows more about it.

[kjb434]

One good think is the developer mentioned in the story is currently behind the project on Memorial where the Bayou Bend Apartments uset to be.

I'm thinking if the Alabama project occurs, it'll be after the Memorial one is nearing completion.

If anyone has further information, please correct.

[winlowplacer]

It's way too big for the supporting infrastructure. the streets around it are mostly residential with no parking restrictions. there's barely room for two cars to pass as it is.

as planned (16 stories) it's an entire subdivision on a city block.

i talked to a reporter at the examiner new who is trying to get a story out on it, but no-one is talking to him - not the residents, not the developer (matt dilick), no-one. says in all his years writing for the paper this has never happened before.

why all the secrecy, matt?

[GREASER]

The residents don`t know alot of whats going on. They have been told though, at some point, they will have to move, (6ms. to a year). I have a complete story, but its all second hand.

[kjb434]

^^

It's a private project anyway. The developer doesn't need resident approval to build. If the residents object to planning commision, the most will be a comprimise on how the building interacts with the street.

Whether the street can handle the traffic or not is the city's problem. Usually it is this kind of development that prompt the city to rebuild a street or widened it. If the street can't be widened, other alternatives should be looked at. The LRT will be two short blocks away. I don't know if a station will be right there though.

[sevfiv]

http://www.ghpa.org/endangered.html

GHPA successfully nominated Wilshire Village Apartments and the Grota Homestead Neighborhood to Preservation Texas

[MidtownCoog]

A 16- to 18 tower would killl that area IMHO.

[neuman]

A 16- to 18 tower would killl that area IMHO.

And a slum compliments the area?

This property has so many liens against it (Federal included) that it will be almost impossible to get clear title. It has been in the same family since construction and the current owners/heirs are only looking to make the most money they can out of it. Unfortunately, the only type project that could afford to satisfy the heirs and taxing entities would be a tower. It's either that or watch them deteriorate further.

[sevfiv]

slums and towers are/would be crummy

anyhow, what is Flat Stone II, Ltd (the apparent current owners)?

edit: the flat stone address in HCAD is someone's apartment

[dbigtex56]

See related Wilshire Village thread here.

[dbigtex56]

See related Wilshire Village Apartments thread here.

[Watch4Snakes]

So, the apartments have been demolished....what now?

[dbigtex56]

So, the apartments have been demolished....what now?

When did this happen? They were there a few days ago.

[sabasushi]

I'm refering to that old apartment complex at Dunlavy and Alabama across from the Fiesta Mart store. It looks like it was built in 1930's or 1940's. From what I can see, it looks abandoned. What is this place, and are there any plans about what to do about it? I'm not necessarily into "tear-everything-down-and-rebuild" and I usually like 30's architecture. But that place *is* a bit of an eyesore, and I wish someone would either tear down the complex or fix it up.

[gnu]

I'm refering to that old apartment complex at Dunlavy and Alabama across from the Fiesta Mart store. It looks like it was built in 1930's or 1940's. From what I can see, it looks abandoned. What is this place, and are there any plans about what to do about it? I'm not necessarily into "tear-everything-down-and-rebuild" and I usually like 30's architecture. But that place *is* a bit of an eyesore, and I wish someone would either tear down the complex or fix it up.

wilshire village. see thread here:

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=2223

and here:

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=5082

[marmer]

When did this happen? They were there a few days ago.

Yeah, I knew someone who lived there back in the mid-80s. At that time it was quite a nice, safe, location, and I remember thinking that it was an unusually large, nice apartment compared to the generic crap that most of my friends were living in.

marmer

[VicMan]

If this is built, since this is at the southwest corner of Dunlavy and West Alabama, this will be zoned to:

* Poe ES

* Lanier MS

* Lamar HS

[dbigtex56]

Merged and retitled topics.

[OkieEric]

I live just a few blocks from there, and would obviously love to see something done - also, I swear I still see cars parked around there, so I don't think they're completely abandoned (though they look it!). It's definitely a great piece of real estate. It would be nice to see the apartments saved somehow, but I can't really imagine that being an option. Whatever they do, hopefully they can save some of those trees...

I believe they started on some new apartments at Dunlavy and Richmond last month...haven't driven by to confirm, though. Not sure how this would affect prospects for development at Wilshire. Maybe they're holding off to see what happens with the rail?