President Obama

[brian0123]

Dude, get a life and stop worrying about everything Obama does. This is a good thing. It's an extension of emergency preparedness dating back to 1984, but bringing the government up to today's tech world. It's making sure the government can get the bandwidth and information it needs during times of disaster. We all know how cell towers and and networks get clogged already when an emergency hits. This makes sure the government can take over (if needed) so they can save lives instead of letting people Tweet "OMG end of wrld hpning. Btr grb last latte 2 go "

http://www.zdnet.com/foreign-news-outlets-cynically-bash-americas-new-emergency-communications-executive-order-7000000554/

[RedScare]

Heightsite, whose side are you on?

On the other hand, depending on where you read the news, you might get a completely different perspective. For example, take RT.com. RT stands for Russia Today -- so you know their perspective. If you read RT's article, you'd read "Obama gives himself control of all communication systems in America."

[LTAWACS]

It's a conspiracy!

[barracuda]

Dude, get a life and stop worrying about everything Obama does. This is a good thing. It's an extension of emergency preparedness dating back to 1984, but bringing the government up to today's tech world. It's making sure the government can get the bandwidth and information it needs during times of disaster. We all know how cell towers and and networks get clogged already when an emergency hits. This makes sure the government can take over (if needed) so they can save lives instead of letting people Tweet "OMG end of wrld hpning. Btr grb last latte 2 go "

http://www.zdnet.com...der-7000000554/

You could even say it dates back to 1951, when CONELRAD was established to provide emergency broadcasting. I don't see how this executive order makes us a police state if it's for emergencies only, has been around in one form or another for over 60 years, and hasn't even been activated since the modern EAS was implemented over 15 years ago.

[TheNiche]

Dude, get a life and stop worrying about everything Obama does. This is a good thing. It's an extension of emergency preparedness dating back to 1984, but bringing the government up to today's tech world. It's making sure the government can get the bandwidth and information it needs during times of disaster. We all know how cell towers and and networks get clogged already when an emergency hits. This makes sure the government can take over (if needed) so they can save lives instead of letting people Tweet "OMG end of wrld hpning. Btr grb last latte 2 go "

http://www.zdnet.com...der-7000000554/

I can respect that position.

The fact is that one of our own military tactics is to knock out all military command and control infrastructure at the outset of any hostile conflict. It is a highly effective tactic. If a foreign power attempted to do the same to us in a first strike and was even 20% successful, then civil and military demand for bandwidth would spike instantly and cause problems for all users. That wouldn't be good for anybody. It could be catastrophic.

OTOH, put politics aside. Whether or not any of us trusts Obama or trusted Bush or anybody that's running for office, it is not clear that all presidents are trustworthy or will continue to be trustworthy. It is a legitimate debate as to the amount of power that should be held by an American presidency. Look at what happened in Egypt when things got rough for Murabak. I could imagine that happening here and wouldn't want it to.

Perhaps the price of an insurance policy against tyranny is that the government needs to be able to support its own independent and highly redundant communication infrastructure (which may be wise, just to keep foreign hackers out of the network) or that government should develop redundant fiberoptic trunklines and well-shielded data centers that could be switched on if necessary to handle a bandwidth spike.

Or perhaps, in general, defense spending is the price of relative assurance that an organized foreign power does not attempt such a thing in the first place.

[brian0123]

@Niche

As a software and web developer who supports a free, open, and neutral internet... I really have no problem with government taking over any resource needed (if needed) during an emergency. I would love to see the government build the type of network you describe (they probably have something setup already). That said, if that network were to fail... they still should be able to take over what they need in order to protect the public.

Let's not forget that the government gave us the internet to begin with. Also, people don't understand how the internet works if they think the US government can just "take it all over". Even if someone were to come in and wanted to abuse their authority to turn America into a communist/socialist state... it would not be possible. just look at China as an example. They continue to struggle with blocking sites and stopping the flow of information.

[Marksmu]

I dont think anyone is worried about the government having the power in a real emergency to do it - the real question is what the considers an emergency....for instance if we had an anti-obama uprising being fueled by some right wing extremist group sometime around election day...those people may be able to disrupt the ability of the police/local authorities to ensure that everyone has an equal right to vote...now suppose Obama saw that as an emergency and shut down cell towers, twitter, facebook, and other popular forms of social media to control their ability to communicate.

It may be highly effective in curtailing a small revolt like that in terms of communication, but was the loss of systems for law abiding citizens really worth that? It really depends on what type of emergency qualifies and who has the power to authorize its use...ifs its a full congressional authority type of law its less prone to abuse, especially when we have split houses. But if the power rests on Obama himself - then I don't blame anyone for being a skeptic. Obama has proven himself to be incompetent and at times dictatorial...people who question his policies and authority are not all crazy.

[TheNiche]

@Niche

As a software and web developer who supports a free, open, and neutral internet... I really have no problem with government taking over any resource needed (if needed) during an emergency. I would love to see the government build the type of network you describe (they probably have something setup already). That said, if that network were to fail... they still should be able to take over what they need in order to protect the public.

Let's not forget that the government gave us the internet to begin with. Also, people don't understand how the internet works if they think the US government can just "take it all over". Even if someone were to come in and wanted to abuse their authority to turn America into a communist/socialist state... it would not be possible. just look at China as an example. They continue to struggle with blocking sites and stopping the flow of information.

My principle concern is that an emergency might be manufactured or perpetuated by artificial means or that a president might overreach, testing the boundary of their authority. Even if they're not capable of completely quashing the public realm, stating that the worst case scenario is akin to Chinese internet is 1) misleading I think, because there are worse possible scenarios, and 2) still undesirable.

If it is time to revise those powers claimed by the presidency on the basis of advanced communications technology, then perhaps it is also time to revise those rights reserved by the people pursuant to the first amendment. Or perhaps executive privilege needs to be more explicitly defined in a 28th amendment.

[brian0123]

ifs its a full congressional authority type of law its less prone to abuse, especially when we have split houses.

That's precisely the problem. Do you honestly believe congress would be able to react in an emergency... quickly?

When an emergency happens, someone has to be able to call the shots quickly and you don't have time for debates. If the president were to abuse his power, citizens would have the opportunity to vote him out if they didn't feel it was just. Simple as that. Plus, any president should know that depriving citizens of Facebook and sports scores better have a darn good reason.

[kylejack]

Of course this is dangerous, just like many other things the President does. He currently asserts the right to kill Americans with a drone strike without so much as an indictment against them for a crime. Due process is not judicial process, says his AG.

[Marksmu]

That's precisely the problem. Do you honestly believe congress would be able to react in an emergency... quickly?

When an emergency happens, someone has to be able to call the shots quickly and you don't have time for debates. If the president were to abuse his power, citizens would have the opportunity to vote him out if they didn't feel it was just. Simple as that. Plus, any president should know that depriving citizens of Facebook and sports scores better have a darn good reason.

In a real emergency? Yes - In a politically created or motivated emergency? No....I have quite a bit more faith in our government to act properly and in a bipartisan way in the event of a real emergency.... Unfortunately I think the only types of emergencies that could trigger something like this may be political in nature.

[brian0123]

My head hurts from rolling my eyes so hard.

Is it possible for Obama to do ANYTHING without people freaking out and thinking he has some hidden agenda or secret plan to destroy you? Every critique I hear about him (or a policy he has pushed for) is some "what if" or "this could happen in the future..." boogyman scenario that hasn't happened and probably never will. In fact, you can come up with any crazy "what if/it might happen" scenario for anyone and anything. I sure hope you guys don't live your lives constantly in fear.

Back when I used to complain about Bush, it was for ACTUAL things he was doing AT THAT MOMENT. ("Well, we just invaded a country for no reason." "Well, he just declared mission accomplished in a flight suit even though soliders are still dying." "Well, he just passed tax cuts for the wealthy." "Hmm, he's currently authorizing secret prisons and is allowing torture to happen right now.")

[Marksmu]

People are highly cautious about granting the President any more power b/c he has already shown his absolute disdain for the legislative process....

1. He refuses to enforce immigration laws, bypassed congress by directing ICE to stop deporting non-felony illegal immigrants, and issuing work visas to people here illegally (basically the DREAM act)

2. He refuses to enforce actual election laws when non-whites are the perpetrators - dropped the case against the new black panthers in 2010

3. He refuses to enfoce the laws when it comes to gay marriage (which I dont actually care about, but its another example)

4. He unilaterally changed welfare laws by waiving the requirement you actually work

5. He bypassed congress by sending funds frozen by Congress to Palestine

6. He bypassed congress by unilaterally using policy to control EPA emissions in spite of congress blocking his laws to do so

7. He bypassed congress when he sent money to the Muslim Brotherhood

8. He bypassed congress when he appointed 3 members to the NLB board when congress was in session

9 He negotiates with the UN to reduce American influence throughout the world

10. He is fighting the states on simple state rights issues like requiring ID to vote (how heinous)

11. He is misusing executive privilege by is stonewalling fast & Furious

12. He crammed healthcare reform down everyones throats

13. He intentionally incites racial violence....Trayvon Martin, Professor and police acted stupidly, etc

14. He is actively recruiting people to sign up for food stamps and other government assistance programs by attempting to remove the stigma associated with being a leach on society

15. He is constantly attacking businesses and successful individuals by outright stating that he thinks the government solves all our problems - when in reality the government is creating them.

16. Killed the Keystone pipeline to appease his crazy environmental wacko base....

I can go on and on and on....He is the worst president in my lifetime....its pretty easy NOT to trust someone like Obama, when he says one thing and does another...if given another term it is extremely reasonable to expect that his policies and dictatorial tendencies will only grow as he no longer has to appear even remotely neutral....

Finally, in regards to most of your complaints about Bush

1. Obama kept Gitmo open

2. Obama has increased drone strikes worldwide

3. Obama spiked the football repeatedly when the seals caught Osama Bin Laden

4. Obama has transferred more money from the working class to the government class than Bush ever cut to the "wealthy" which is ridiculous class warfare.

5. Obama has continued the secret prisions

6. Obama has continued the torture techniques

So what have we gotten from Obama? The largest increase in the defecit ever....Highest unemployment in years, class envy & class warfare, the worst race relations we have ever had in my lifetime, a health insurance program that has zero chance of working....Ya, he is terrible.

Obama is a one trick pony - His plan for reelection is simple. The rich have too much, corporations are evil, and the government can provide for you....He knows that will not be enough to get him reelected so he went ahead and bypassed congress with ICE deportations, and then fights diligently to ensure that no id is ever required to vote...if you can't sit back and objectively look at everything this president has done and be deeply disturbed by it, then you are most likely a recipient of one of his policies, ie a government worker, a union member, a contractor who benefits from government compliance costs, a teacher, a lawyer, or unemployed.

Nearly all productive industry where things are actually being accomplished in this country (not merely the service industry or the banks) realize how much he has done to kill this country.

[LTAWACS]

I dont have time to address most of your points but I will comment on some....

Finally, in regards to most of your complaints about Bush

1. Obama kept Gitmo open

2. Obama has increased drone strikes worldwide

3. Obama spiked the football repeatedly when the seals caught Osama Bin Laden

4. Obama has transferred more money from the working class to the government class than Bush ever cut to the "wealthy" which is ridiculous class warfare.

5. Obama has continued the secret prisions

6. Obama has continued the torture techniques

1. Good

2. Good

3. Irrelevant

4. I dont have an opinion right now.

5. Good.

6. Good.

[Marksmu]

I dont have time to address most of your points but I will comment on some....

1. Good

2. Good

3. Irrelevant

4. I dont have an opinion right now.

5. Good.

6. Good.

I dont disagree with you...Im glad we do drone strikes, kept gitmo open, torture terrorists, kept the secret prisons...

The Bin Laden Happy dance was obnoxious b/c it came a whole day or two after he said he wasn't going to do it. Then he let the press into the situation room and granted hollywood supporters access to secret intel in order to do a movie about it that will, I am sure, portray their hero Obama as our savior.

And the class warfare & wealth transfers I am highly opinionated on....His theory that you cant build something and succeed without government is wrong on so many levels...The government did not create the things that allowed the country to succeed. Education/roads/cars all of it would exist without the government....just in a very different form.

[kylejack]

Back when I used to complain about Bush, it was for ACTUAL things he was doing AT THAT MOMENT. ("Well, we just invaded a country for no reason." "Well, he just declared mission accomplished in a flight suit even though soliders are still dying." "Well, he just passed tax cuts for the wealthy." "Hmm, he's currently authorizing secret prisons and is allowing torture to happen right now.")

No worries, he's doing plenty of actual things as well, like extrajudicial assassination of an American teenager.

[TheNiche]

So people...how about we not talk about Obama or Bush? How about we talk about the implications of American democracy in the 21st century? You know, as a system with roles and titles but without faces.

[samagon]

It's owned by wall street, no matter who is in charge.

[Montrose1100]

I'm sure greed is destroying this country more then anything. All of our money goes to China, they have almost every blueprint to EVERYTHING. Including military hard/software. They are pouring money into their science and education programs, while we cut back and do nothing.

Forget the debt, class war, democrat vs. republican. If we can't get this country educated and innovative (while building, manufacturing, designing things here), and not some cheaper country, then we're doomed.

Sorry for ranting.

[Marksmu]

I'm sure greed is destroying this country more then anything. All of our money goes to China, they have almost every blueprint to EVERYTHING. Including military hard/software. They are pouring money into their science and education programs, while we cut back and do nothing.

Forget the debt, class war, democrat vs. republican. If we can't get this country educated and innovative (while building, manufacturing, designing things here), and not some cheaper country, then we're doomed.

Sorry for ranting.

I agree with you 100% and I suspect most people on both sides of the isle do as well - the difference between the political parties is the method of doing what you just said. All of the social programs that Democrats push are disincentives to actually go improve your situation.

Democrats believe if they make life easier for those who have it hard that it will enable them to improve their situation more easily. If they dont have to worry about food/rent health care they can concentrate on school....unfortunately many of the people receiving benefits are content with a life of doing nothing and being provided for....So they want to raise tax rates on those who have more to enable them to provide for those who have less.

Republicans, in general, believe that if you reward someone who is successful, that he in turn will reward those who work for him. A single good idea may need 10 people to implement it, or it may need ten thousand. Without the incentive of wealth to bring your good idea to market people would just say, why bother?

I believe wholeheartedly that the only way to put this country on a strong footing is through science, engineering and manufacturing. Those are the things that made this country great. An economy based entirely on banking, finances, and service is doomed to fail. I don't remember the statistic but it was something like 70% or more of our economy is now in the service or retail business. That is unsustainable. We must diversify the economy to avoid these massive swings. We are building countries like China and India by outsourcing our jobs and selling our intellectual property.

The only way for us to build a strong manufacturing and development environment is for people to accept the fact that they will have to put in a real days work in real world conditions. Couple real work with the government stepping back and letting business function and we have it!....the regulation and paperwork required to just operate is onerous and needs to be shortened. I personally do paperwork for something like 14 different government reports at our business and most of them take between 1 and 4 days to complete. I spend about 12-15% of my time doing reports that generate nothing and are never read unless they determine that they want to fine us or audit us for something. Its counterproductive.

Lets get rid of government constraints and let business do what business does best. Build things and employ people.

[Montrose1100]

I agree with you 100% and I suspect most people on both sides of the isle do as well - the difference between the political parties is the method of doing what you just said. All of the social programs that Democrats push are disincentives to actually go improve your situation.

Democrats believe if they make life easier for those who have it hard that it will enable them to improve their situation more easily. If they dont have to worry about food/rent health care they can concentrate on school....unfortunately many of the people receiving benefits are content with a life of doing nothing and being provided for....So they want to raise tax rates on those who have more to enable them to provide for those who have less.

Republicans, in general, believe that if you reward someone who is successful, that he in turn will reward those who work for him. A single good idea may need 10 people to implement it, or it may need ten thousand. Without the incentive of wealth to bring your good idea to market people would just say, why bother?

I believe wholeheartedly that the only way to put this country on a strong footing is through science, engineering and manufacturing. Those are the things that made this country great. An economy based entirely on banking, finances, and service is doomed to fail. I don't remember the statistic but it was something like 70% or more of our economy is now in the service or retail business. That is unsustainable. We must diversify the economy to avoid these massive swings. We are building countries like China and India by outsourcing our jobs and selling our intellectual property.

The only way for us to build a strong manufacturing and development environment is for people to accept the fact that they will have to put in a real days work in real world conditions. Couple real work with the government stepping back and letting business function and we have it!....the regulation and paperwork required to just operate is onerous and needs to be shortened. I personally do paperwork for something like 14 different government reports at our business and most of them take between 1 and 4 days to complete. I spend about 12-15% of my time doing reports that generate nothing and are never read unless they determine that they want to fine us or audit us for something. Its counterproductive.

Lets get rid of government constraints and let business do what business does best. Build things and employ people.

Agreed. But some regulations are needed. There has to be a happy medium, but unfortunately the see-saw keeps swinging... I really hope everyone wakes up and realizes that the debates we have now are petty in comparisons to the bigger picture.

It may not be China who uses our products against us, but anyone in the black market could purchase designs to put our business (and military) out.

I'm happy for China, India and other emerging economies, but we're basically signing our future away for a higher profit in the short run.

[LTAWACS]

I'm sure greed is destroying this country more then anything. All of our money goes to China, they have almost every blueprint to EVERYTHING. Including military hard/software. They are pouring money into their science and education programs, while we cut back and do nothing.

Forget the debt, class war, democrat vs. republican. If we can't get this country educated and innovative (while building, manufacturing, designing things here), and not some cheaper country, then we're doomed.

Sorry for ranting.

1. It starts at home with the family. And they are failing us.

2. Our public schools have failed us.

[Pleak]

Wow. A political post turning somewhat civil, reasonable and mildly interesting. Who would have thunk it?

Keep going.....

[RedScare]

This topic?

[Pleak]

This topic?

Compared to what usually passes for political discourse here - yes.

Obama sucks. No- Bush sucked more and longer. Romney won't even get the chance to suck is how is usually goes.

There were actually a couple of mildly interesting comments made that I was hoping would take the thread in that direction.

[RedScare]

Actually, I was responding to the OP, who ranted that this topic had been locked.

[Pleak]

Actually, I was responding to the OP, who ranted that this topic had been locked.

Oops. Sorry. Scurries back to lurking now....

[Montrose1100]

I like that Obama is moving in the direction of marriage equality. I know some of you don't, and that's ok... But, at the same time, I dont like his other policies (healthcare for one).

I think he will be elected again, I can't remember the last time a president only served one term. I could look it up but I'm lazy, time for bed.

[Pleak]

Bush Sr.

[west20th]

I like that Obama is moving in the direction of marriage equality. I know some of you don't, and that's ok... But, at the same time, I dont like his other policies (healthcare for one).

I think he will be elected again, I can't remember the last time a president only served one term. I could look it up but I'm lazy, time for bed.

What in particular do you not like about the healthcare reform?