President Obama

[august948]

Not me. That question has already been resolved. Precedent already exists to address your concern.

That particular resolution answered the question of whether or not a state had the right to leave the Union. Incidentally something that our esteemed governor seems to have missed during his high school years. As for states trying to usurp federal responsibilities or vice-versa, that stuff happens all the time.

[AtticaFlinch]

Why is it so expensive? I dont understand. Take them to the border and that's it. Get them out of here.

Tortillas and beans are more expensive than the bread and butter they'd been feeding the white and black inmates.

[august948]

Why is it so expensive? I dont understand. Take them to the border and that's it. Get them out of here.

The expense is going to come from the additional processing and incarceration before deportation and from the inevitable lawsuits from the unjustly accused. But, even if Arizona repeals the law today, news of it has already made it's way south of the border and the net result will be that fewer illegals will be going to Arizona for the foreseeable future.

[TheNiche]

Why is it so expensive? I dont understand. Take them to the border and that's it. Get them out of here.

Due process. What if they tried to dump you across the border?

Besides, having illegal immigrants is awesome. It's like what slavery would've been like if we'd just paid the slaves to stock and maintain their own households and to arrange their own transportation to our country. Much less hassle, much more convenient, and the people that actually care enough to go through all this mess tend to be genuinely motivated to work hard and succeed. Meanwhile, they're too afraid to ask for any kind of social services or human dignities afforded to them under the law. For us, it's a win-win-win. And for them, it's still at least better than their land of origin, where they don't get paid not to have human dignity.

[LTAWACS]

Due process. What if they tried to dump you across the border?

Besides, having illegal immigrants is awesome. It's like what slavery would've been like if we'd just paid the slaves to stock and maintain their own households and to arrange their own transportation to our country. Much less hassle, much more convenient, and the people that actually care enough to go through all this mess tend to be genuinely motivated to work hard and succeed. Meanwhile, they're too afraid to ask for any kind of social services or human dignities afforded to them under the law. For us, it's a win-win-win. And for them, it's still at least better than their land of origin, where they don't get paid not to have human dignity.

Dump me? Naw... I'd stick out like a sore thumb.

As for the rest of your post... I like it.

[AtticaFlinch]

It appears some of the verbage has been quietly changed in 1070 to minimize its negative implicit impact.

It must be awkward to have risen to the vigorous defense of legal language that even its authors, in the end, could not defend. But the law’s advocates are making the best of things out on their sawed-off limb. The law is now more “explicit” about its true intention. It is a “clarification.” But this isn’t a clarification; it is retreat. The authors of the Arizona law initially wrote it as broadly as they thought they could get away with. But they were caught. Their retreat does not confirm their intentions were good. It confirms that the original law was deeply flawed -- a dramatic, disturbing overreach.

It appears all the cries of "sanctimonious libruls!" coming from the right couldn't make the new law legal nor ethical. Interesting.

Edit: Non-editorialized AP version here.

[20thStDad]

It appears some of the verbage has been quietly changed in 1070 to minimize its negative implicit impact.

It appears all the cries of "sanctimonious libruls!" coming from the right couldn't make the new law legal nor ethical. Interesting.

Edit: Non-editorialized AP version here.

Yes, let's just close our eyes and pretend that 99.9% of the illegal immigrants in Arizona are not Mexicans. There, now we all feel better and happy! Let's go adopt an injured kitty! Profiling, schmofiling, the thought that police (probably at least half of which are hispanic) were going to start arresting everyone who was hispanic looking is still silly.

People need to stop wasting their time being offended at every pointless thing and if they want to make a difference actually come up with an idea of how to efficiently locate and process illegals according to whatever laws are in place.

[AtticaFlinch]

Yes, let's just close our eyes and pretend that 99.9% of the illegal immigrants in Arizona are not Mexicans. There, now we all feel better and happy! Let's go adopt an injured kitty! Profiling, schmofiling, the thought that police (probably at least half of which are hispanic) were going to start arresting everyone who was hispanic looking is still silly.

People need to stop wasting their time being offended at every pointless thing and if they want to make a difference actually come up with an idea of how to efficiently locate and process illegals according to whatever laws are in place.

If you say so.

To me, circumventing the Constitution in order to send some illegal immigrants home is like burning your house down because you've got cockroaches... cockroaches with an excellent cuisine and work ethic. Sure, Arizona's solution reduces the number of illegal immigrants, but at what price? Our moral compass and the very foundational law of our country? Are a handful of illegal immigrants even worth that to you?

[LTAWACS]

The fighting has begun.... someone left a death threat on a tortilla... ugh.

http://www.ultimateclearlake.com/2010/05/woman-gets-threatening-message-tortillas

[AtticaFlinch]

The fighting has begun.... someone left a death threat on a tortilla... ugh.

http://www.ultimatec...ssage-tortillas

That was no death threat. It was just an image of Jesus.

Edit: Ahem, excuse me... Hay-seuss.

[20thStDad]

If you say so.

To me, circumventing the Constitution in order to send some illegal immigrants home is like burning your house down because you've got cockroaches... cockroaches with an excellent cuisine and work ethic. Sure, Arizona's solution reduces the number of illegal immigrants, but at what price? Our moral compass and the very foundational law of our country? Are a handful of illegal immigrants even worth that to you?

Well if you want to use the cockroach analogy (let's note you were the first to call illegals insect pests, and the hispanics specifically cockroaches) - I think this solution is more akin to calling an exterminator. Yes, you will kill more than just cockroaches, and you have to write a check, and who knows the long term effects of those poisons on children and pets, but hey, no more roaches.

[AtticaFlinch]

(let's note you were the first to call illegals insect pests, and the hispanics specifically cockroaches)

Analogy.

Equation.

These aren't the same thing.

and you have to write a check

And the check is for the entire value of your house. We can modify each other's analogies until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact Arizona Republican legislators amended the wording with 1070 because they were caught being classless, xenophobic pricks. They haven't changed their minds about being classless, xenophobic pricks. They've just succumbed to the political pressure of needing votes, and they realized alienating 1/3 of their constituents was a stupid idea.

[LTAWACS]

Well if you want to use the cockroach analogy (let's note you were the first to call illegals insect pests, and the hispanics specifically cockroaches) - I think this solution is more akin to calling an exterminator. Yes, you will kill more than just cockroaches, and you have to write a check, and who knows the long term effects of those poisons on children and pets, but hey, no more roaches.

We have a winner!

[AtticaFlinch]

Hot on the heels of Jan Brewer signing another law with a huge potential for xenophobic and racist abuse, cops in Seattle prove that cops can, despite so many people's beliefs to the contrary, act racist.

It's ok though, the offending cop issued a tearful apology.

This is what happens when such vile rhetoric reaches this current pervasive level. People need to slow down, breathe, count to ten and seriously think about why they're actually mad. There's so much misdirected anger out there right now, growing and feeding on itself. I, for one, think it's time to muzzle the talking heads whose job it is to do nothing but incite and increase this anger.

I want to see Rupert Murdoch and his gang of clowns hauled off to court on charges of sedition.

[TJones]

.....Ooooorrr. perhaps God really did just wave his hand around and with a bolt of lightning....."ZAP" there's your chicken. Remember boys and girls evolution is NOT the only theory out there. Just a friendly reminder from your Uncle TJ.

While it's absolutely impossible to pinpoint one single bird that was the very first chicken, it stands to logic if there was one single first chicken, established as a separate species from its parents, it would have to have hatched from the egg that was the first chicken egg.

20thStDad, this ^^ was a silly argument.

[ricco67]

.....Ooooorrr. perhaps God really did just wave his hand around and with a bolt of lightning....."ZAP" there's your chicken. Remember boys and girls evolution is NOT the only theory out there. Just a friendly reminder from your Uncle TJ.

If you're going to go that route, then why couldn't the lizard be zapped into existence and THEN turn into a chicken?

It could be he created the dinosaurs and when they got trashed by a meteor, merely hit the reset button and we came out of that.

Of course, it could be disturbing that we could simply be a gigantic version of CIV for his entertainment.

How else could you explain North Korea?

[AtticaFlinch]

Remember boys and girls evolution is NOT the only theory out there.

It may not be the only hypothesis, but yeah, it pretty much is the only scientific theory supported by any shred of evidence.

I just typed a lengthy response in an attempt to educate you on the subject but then deleted it. If you haven't familiarized yourself with the overwhelming mountain range of evidence that proves natural selection as scientific fact by now, then there's not really any point in trying to educate you here. You wouldn't read it anyhow.

[lockmat]

I started reading a popular book about it and from what I can remember, it was a lot of hypothesis' without any evidence. The evidence was actually just conjecture.

[west20th]

.....Ooooorrr. perhaps God really did just wave his hand around and with a bolt of lightning....."ZAP" there's your chicken. Remember boys and girls evolution is NOT the only theory out there. Just a friendly reminder from your Uncle TJ.

Hey! Take the Xmas tree down already. It's May.

[Porchman]

Umm...Moderators...topic? Or do threads in this arena not get pulled in?

This is the same topic Lockmat and The Niche posited last year...during Lent.

Can't we get someone to gripe about how Obama is promoting stimulus projects to personally mess up his commute?

[AtticaFlinch]

Umm...Moderators...topic? Or do threads in this arena not get pulled in?

Even though there have been disagreements, I believe the posts have been civil. What are you objecting to?

[TheNiche]

Umm...Moderators...topic? Or do threads in this arena not get pulled in?

This is the same topic Lockmat and The Niche posited last year...during Lent.

Can't we get someone to gripe about how Obama is promoting stimulus projects to personally mess up his commute?

I think that the moderators have endorsed the philosophical banter, provided their (admittedly brilliant) comparison of my verbiage with that of the Michael Scott character from 'The Office'.

In a few days, the thread will die again...only to be resurrected with another presidential controversy. We'll move on, and this discussion will be almost un-Googlable when we try to reference it six months from now.

[Subdude]

Even though there have been disagreements, I believe the posts have been civil. What are you objecting to?

Well, I know it will come as a shock to some, but there is meant to be such a thing as "staying on topic" instead of seizing every thread as an opportunity to expound upon one's personal philosophies. That said, in the politics sub-forum it seems one might argue for a good bit more leeway and flexibility about topics.

[AtticaFlinch]

Well, I know it will come as a shock to some, but there is meant to be such a thing as "staying on topic" instead of seizing every thread as an opportunity to expound upon one's personal philosophies. That said, in the politics sub-forum it seems one might argue for a good bit more leeway and flexibility about topics.

I'd rather just make fart jokes, but nobody's setting me up well for them. I discuss my personal philosophies only as plan B.

[TJones]

Umm...Moderators...topic? Or do threads in this arena not get pulled in?

This is the same topic Lockmat and The Niche posited last year...during Lent.

Can't we get someone to gripe about how Obama is promoting stimulus projects to personally mess up his commute?

Such a buzzkill Porchman, the one thing you contributed to this thread, and you "tattle" on us.? Nice going.

[Porchman]

Such a buzzkill Porchman, the one thing you contributed to this thread, and you "tattle" on us.? Nice going.

I was just stunned that the thread topic hasn't been addressed in the last couple dozen posts (and several days). The mods don't seem to care. I guess it's just "Way, Way...Way Off Topic".

Excuse me, I'm now going over to the Heights Forum to snark about general home improvement threads being posted there.

[TJones]

I was just stunned that the thread topic hasn't been addressed in the last couple dozen posts (and several days). The mods don't seem to care. I guess it's just "Way, Way...Way Off Topic".

Excuse me, I'm now going over to the Heights Forum to snark about general home improvement threads being posted there.

Oooooohhhhh, the Mods know that we would have eventually steered it back on track. We are good like that.

[TJones]

If Obama and Nancy Pelosi were in the middle of the ocean in a life raft and it started sinking............who would you save ?

Ans: America !

[jgriff]

My health insurance just went up from $550 a month to $950 a month. Since we started blaming presidents for every single thing that happens in society no matter if they have any authority over it or not; who can I blame for this? I hope the same thing doesn't happen to anyone else but this does not bode well.

[ricco67]

My health insurance just went up from $550 a month to $950 a month. Since we started blaming presidents for every single thing that happens in society no matter if they have any authority over it or not; who can I blame for this? I hope the same thing doesn't happen to anyone else but this does not bode well.

Don't feel like the only one, I've had a number of my friends complain about this, even ones who had NEVER used their insurance. A number of docs even stopped seeing Medicare patients as well.