GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[KimberlySayWhat]

If I go there and see a chuck-e-cheese robot band dressed up like The Clash, I'll probably agree with you. If I go there and see a real live band that I know and like, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

Oooh, animatronics! That'd make me go more!

[TexasVines]

glad to see that we are all cooperating here and hoping that HP will be a success

btw, TexasVines I'm not going against you here or trying to start an argument

but what is the purpose of your posting here(in the HP topic)

to open ppls eyes and making them realize that HP isn't what they think it is?

hmm?

I hope HP does very well....but stepping into reality what is HP....it is a shopping mall full of mostly restaurants downtown with a bit of office space on top....I am far from a hypster for mixed use, but as many others have pointed out a hotel and or residences would have made this project something unique

I also posted my opinion that people are WAY over hyping the HOB because honestly after seeing a picture of it on wikipedia I have seen air conditioner cooling towers that were more architecturally interesting

and a place called House of BLUES kind of makes me laugh when their opening acts are gangsta rappas and comedians for WAY too much cost.....I would prefer to pay to go to a comedy club on open mic night and hear something original than go see a comedian for too much money that I will already know what 90% of his jokes are before he says them....mix in the over priced drinks to pay for all the "atmosphere" at the house of blues and I will pass on most of their acts.....HOB made a name for themselves as a place that gave small BLUES acts a venue and instead of opening with reasonable prices and a line up of BLUES acts that most would rarely see they open with a has been rappa and comedians

and it is correct to say that sitting in an old warehouse does not make something special, but neither does sitting in a contrived over priced ugly box with a name on the front make something special

people seem set on being excited that it is THE HOB when the reality is it is uglier than a wharehouse and cost more and will be full of people more borish than an empty warehouse.....not really getting what all the excitement is about

I wish this mall the best, but they will really need to WORK to make it something more than just another mall away from a large population center with over priced venues living on what they were somewhere else VS what they have become now

Edited October 10, 2008 by TexasVines

[crunchtastic]

When it comes down to it, when you're sitting or standing in the venue, all that matters is the music. Listening to it in a crappy warehouse doesn't make it any cooler or genuine.

A few generations of musicians, music lovers, historians, and other musical types would beg to differ. It does make it cooler. It is more authentic. How much live music have been exposed to, exactly? HOB is exactly a Planet Hollywood with stages. Does it mean I won't go there? No. But understand the difference between a show, and music. I understand that most people are not going to go into some joint in the ward to see a bluesman, or a scuzzy warehouse to see some atonal punk band. But don't think for a second that it is not more valuable to see an art form in its natural state.

We're all poseurs. I understand what you're getting at there. But if you have the chance, and you love music, you should always seek it out where it exists. Pay the service charge to get a ticket to someplace shiny, and enjoy the show. But if you're interested, don't be satisfied with just that. And for god's sake listen to music through good, well placed speakers and not earbuds. And if you really love music, buy it. Not song by song, but actual albums. It keeps the musician types fed.

[memebag]

I don't see the big deal. Why do people think it's so cool to be non-commercial? So what if it's popular? They bring acts that many people want to see. That doesn't make it bad.

It isn't bad because it's commercial. I bought a ticket to see the Butthole Surfers in an abandoned warehouse. There was commerce. It isn't bad because it's popular. Lots of great stuff is popular. It's bad because it's fake, and it doesn't even acknowledge that. It convinces us little by little that it's as real as the real thing. It steals the real out of our lives.

It's like pornography: OK in a pinch, but wouldn't you rather have sex with a real human being? Or at the very least, a real farm animal?

When it comes down to it, when you're sitting or standing in the venue, all that matters is the music. Listening to it in a crappy warehouse doesn't make it any cooler or genuine.

If the music is all that matters then listen to a CD at home. You can hear a much better mix without the limitations of large hall acoustics and amplification, or the interference from other people. Or farm animals. Live performance is about more than music. It's about a real experience, not a "real" "experience".

Look at this:

That isn't an old building; it's new. It was built to look old. It's like the worst sort of magic trick, the kind where the magician pretends that magic is real. It was built by people who think you are an idiot.

[bachanon]

It isn't bad because it's commercial. I bought a ticket to see the Butthole Surfers in an abandoned warehouse. There was commerce. It isn't bad because it's popular. Lots of great stuff is popular. It's bad because it's fake, and it doesn't even acknowledge that. It convinces us little by little that it's as real as the real thing. It steals the real out of our lives.

It's like pornography: OK in a pinch, but wouldn't you rather have sex with a real human being? Or at the very least, a real farm animal?

If the music is all that matters then listen to a CD at home. You can hear a much better mix without the limitations of large hall acoustics and amplification, or the interference from other people. Or farm animals. Live performance is about more than music. It's about a real experience, not a "real" "experience".

Look at this:

That isn't an old building; it's new. It was built to look old. It's like the worst sort of magic trick, the kind where the magician pretends that magic is real. It was built by people who think you are an idiot.

is it because they think people are idiots or because they want to capitalize on authenticity and appear to be authentic? the existence of places like this is evidence that the real thing is/was way better. a tuscan mansion in memorial or the woodlands lacks the very thing that inspires it.

give me a musty hole in the wall with good music any day, or a four hundred year old building still serving its function that is clean as the day it was built. authenticity does not live at HOB or in a mega mansion in..........ok, i just can't say it.

long live fitzgeralds!

[musicman]

don't devastate the youngsters.

[lockmat]

So take your favorite singers. Put them in the Houston Pavilion's HOB. Is it real or fabricated?

I'd rather listen to good music inside some place fake than bad music in a "real" place.

Who's not to say that the owner of a "real" genuine music venue is not dooping us? He convinces some people that just because it's an old abandoned warehouse that the music is good.

I'm with crunch. Just go where the music is, regardless of the venue.

[brian0123]

I don't know why everyone is getting so hung up on the venue. As a musician and music lover, I only care to play/see shows in venues that have a good sound system and acoustics. I could care less if it is trying to be trendy, or if it is trying to look "authentic", or if it is someplace like Fitzgeralds or a run down warehouse. WHO CARES! Once you get in the building, the lights go down, the stage lights up, and you get to witness masters of their craft creating music right in front of you. Yes, it is not only about the music... it is also about watching musicians build that song right in front of you! If you want to stare at the damn walls of a worn down warehouse, or marvel at the things on the wall at the House of Blues... don't go to the concert and get in everyone's way! Instead, just take a tour of the place sometime later, and congratulate yourself for standing in a place you felt cool at. In the meantime, I'm going to keep paying attention to the music.

Now, can we please get back on topic?

[totheskies]

I hope HP does very well....but stepping into reality what is HP....it is a shopping mall full of mostly restaurants downtown with a bit of office space on top....I am far from a hypster for mixed use, but as many others have pointed out a hotel and or residences would have made this project something unique

I also posted my opinion that people are WAY over hyping the HOB because honestly after seeing a picture of it on wikipedia I have seen air conditioner cooling towers that were more architecturally interesting

and a place called House of BLUES kind of makes me laugh when their opening acts are gangsta rappas and comedians for WAY too much cost.....I would prefer to pay to go to a comedy club on open mic night and hear something original than go see a comedian for too much money that I will already know what 90% of his jokes are before he says them....mix in the over priced drinks to pay for all the "atmosphere" at the house of blues and I will pass on most of their acts.....HOB made a name for themselves as a place that gave small BLUES acts a venue and instead of opening with reasonable prices and a line up of BLUES acts that most would rarely see they open with a has been rappa and comedians

and it is correct to say that sitting in an old warehouse does not make something special, but neither does sitting in a contrived over priced ugly box with a name on the front make something special

people seem set on being excited that it is THE HOB when the reality is it is uglier than a wharehouse and cost more and will be full of people more borish than an empty warehouse.....not really getting what all the excitement is about

I wish this mall the best, but they will really need to WORK to make it something more than just another mall away from a large population center with over priced venues living on what they were somewhere else VS what they have become now

Points taken. Although it is a shame that there are millions of Houstonians that disagree with you. I guess HOB will just have to rely on them to stay afloat.

[totheskies]

God forbid that Houston, the "fourth largest city" or "ninth largest metropolitan area"... whatever you want to call it, be allowed to get another live music venue... we simply have too many of them, and cannot meet our current demand for touring artists as it is. We should have moved HOB to The Woodlands anyway, b/c downtown Houston isn't supposed to get interesting stuff. It's just a place where people work, then they climb into their cars, and get stuck in horrendous traffic for three-and-a-half hours on their way out to Sierra Flatana Cinco-Seis Ranch on the Lake of Cypress Forks of Mine Enemies in the Pear King's Gardens. Let's just tear down Discovery Green too, and move it to Foeswood!

And tourism??? Oh puh-lease! We don't need tourists in Houston, clogging up our rail lines and freeways, exploring downtown. The creation of a tourism industry? That's just un-American!

Edited October 10, 2008 by totheskies

[Montrose1100]

A live music venue, is a live music venue. Whether I'm going to see Kittie at Fitzgeralds, Dave Mathews at the Mitchell Pavillion, or Marilyn Manson at the Verison Theater.

Even though most artist suck without studio magic, its fun to see them in person and enjoy it as best you can... Seriously, people are bitching about the authenticity of the House of Blues and its coolness factor? Be thankful we have something exciting going on Downtown and not the surface lots we had before.

[bachanon]

ditto

[ekarl17]

Hey have any of you guys seen the new Houston Pavillions website, it's pretty modern filled with clean lines!!! I am so excited for this project to become real....hopefully it will attract more shopping stores to downtown to make the urban shopping center of Houston.

[citizen4rmptown]

Hey have any of you guys seen the new Houston Pavillions website, it's pretty modern filled with clean lines!!! I am so excited for this project to become real....hopefully it will attract more shopping stores to downtown to make the urban shopping center of Houston.

someone already mentioned that before, but yes, but imo, i prefer the old logo, and the old website

probably the old renderings too, but all that matters is the retail, office area, and the venues, right?

[C2H]

I don't see the Red cat Jazz Cafe on the tennants list on the new site! Anyone know what happened?

[musicman]

I don't see the Red cat Jazz Cafe on the tennants list on the new site! Anyone know what happened?

they've been having financial problems for quite a while including tabc tax probs.

[wernicke]

Took some pics of HP today.

[katyresident]

Took some pics of HP today.

Nice! The House of Blues isn't bad..

Edited October 12, 2008 by katyresident

[wernicke]

Just walking around, the blocks between HP and Hilton/DG/Toyota have such huge potential if they are used correctly... I would want hotel/luxury apts/condo/retail in the 30-story range or above.

[bachanon]

the sight-line to the GRB is exciting.

it hadn't occurred to me that surrounding hotels will have hundreds of rooms with a view of the pavilion. i hope the project will do well. there is still plenty of space to lease. i wonder if interested businesses are waiting to see how the rest do.

[livincinco]

From today's Chron - looks like the official opening is scheduled for Thursday.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...iz/6052683.html

[citizen4rmptown]

Took some pics of HP today.

Nice, it really means a lot,since i don't frequent that area as much as i want to.

[totheskies]

Question for you all...

HP is now about 60% leased for the retail. What other stores would you like to see move into HP??

It's starting out with more than enough bars and restaurants, but what about

-The Apple Store

-Bike Rental/Bike Share

-movie theater

anything else?? Would love to hear some input.

[ekarl17]

-GAP

-Banana Republic

-Ann Taylor

-AMC Theater

-Pappasitos

-Victoria's Secret

-Disney Store

-Old Navy

-Kentucky Fried Chicken

-G by Guess

These stores give variety for all tastes and incomes=attracting a wide variety of individuals from the Houston Area.

[lockmat]

Thanks for the pics, this place is looking even better than I thought.

[barracuda]

Although I'm not a mall person, I'm excited to see this become successful. This is a key component to building an urban core in Houston. I'm hoping this will spur more organic growth and not just more master planned projects with corporate anchors, as DT needs to have some character too. Still, I'm glad to see this is finally opening.

Edited October 13, 2008 by barracuda

[KinkaidAlum]

Dream list for tenants:

H & M- would be a destination for girls/women all over Texas

Trader Joe's- Would make a killing on downtown lunch crowds and give a small market to residents and hotel guests

Zara- The Latins love to come to town to shop so let's give them the Spanish Dept. Store.

Kuhl-Linscomb/Area/etc...- a smaller boutique version would be nice and get some "local" flavor

Art Space- dedicate a section to local artists. Have month over month shows

Frenchy's- just cuz I am hungry as I type for some real fried chicken

Bullfrog Tours- knock off Boston's "Duck Tours"...old military vehicles that are amphibious...open air tours of town and the bayou/ship chanel. Give the vehicles local names like Buffalo Betty, Rice-a-Rita, Ashley Dome, Montrose Martha, Ernie Enron, Harold Heights

[capnmcbarnacle]

This thing ought to be great for out of towners. There is no tourist ghetto in Houston. No West End, no Riverwalk -- and while those aren't places locals necessarily go, they are great for out of towners who don't know the city and want to go someplace easy to find and prepackaged and ready to go. Pavillions is not the Riverwalk and is basically just a mall, but it provides something for the out of towner to do to kill a couple of hours while waiting to do whatever it is they came here for.

The proximity of Pavillions to the Hilton, Four Seasons, Club whatever, even Doubletree, is a good thing. It gives the people who came in Friday afternoon for a Saturday wedding an option that doesn't involve a long cab ride somewhere else. It is a good time killer for the business traveller who is trying to get out of his room. It provides a bunch of good dining options for the conventioneer. I think I can say before it is even open that it is better than Bayou Place or the Shops at Houston Center. It may not be perfect and it may not draw tons of people from in town, but this is something downtown sorely needed. It may be a glorified mall filled with chain stores you can get in any other city, but the reality is that most Americans will go to something familiar first and that is why this place will be successful.

Will it draw people from in town? It just might. I live in Montrose and I like McCormick and Schmicks. I'll probably come down here before the Galleria. I know I'll see some shows at HOB. It's hard to imagine going past 12 bookstores to get to Books-a-million, but you never know. Time will tell.

[tierwestah]

My dreamlist for tennants:

NikeTown

ESPN Zone

Frenchy Chicken

Virgin Records

Movie Theater (maybe)

[N Judah]

-- Museum store that is specific to Houston museums (prints from current exhibits, gift-shop merch, etc). Also it should have free maps and guides to imminent events at Houston museums. As a result, an out of towner or tourist will be made more aware of local offerings.

Edited October 15, 2008 by N Judah